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Trump and his cabinet/buffoonery- Get your bunkers ready!


brandymac27

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7 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

You are now arguing that it is moral for the minority party to hold the entire government hostage,

Trump and the Republicans did this by getting rid of Daca and forcing Chip into the bill instead of passing it earlier. Everyone else is their hostage.

 

The Democrats offered many compromises yesterday, (probably going farther than most people would like in appeasing Trump on his wall and other nonsense) but Trump and co would rather have their shutdown.  

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20 minutes ago, visionary said:

Trump and the Republicans did this by getting rid of Daca and forcing Chip into the bill instead of passing it earlier. Everyone else is their hostage.

 

The Democrats offered many compromises yesterday, (probably going farther than most people would like in appeasing Trump on his wall and other nonsense) but Trump and co would rather have their shutdown.  

 

You threw two things into that rant. I'm having trouble understanding your argument. 

 

Re: CHIP, you're arguing that the CR should have been filibustered, because it had CHIP funding in it?  

 

Because otherwise your argument becomes "we filibustered this bill because it had two things in it, both of which we wanted". 

 

Re: DACA, your argument appears to be "we were justified in holding the government hostage, because the majority party didn't do what we wanted, sooner". 

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Okay, I'm that kind of person, so I looked it up. McConnell voted against cloture so he could later file for a reconsideration of a motion (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19761010&id=7e4vAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wvoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7017,2742609&hl=en), which under the rules can only be made by someone that voted for the prevailing side.

 

They actually did it with the Gorscuch nomintation: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/s110

 



This was the third of four significant votes on the nomination of Neil Gorsuch to be a Supreme Court Justice. This vote was the second vote on cloture for Gorsuch's nomination and took place after the rules of the Senate were changed through the so-called "nuclear option."

 

A vote on cloture is a vote to limit further debate to 30 more hours so that an up-or-down vote can be taken, in other words to prevent a filibuster. With only 55 votes in favor, 5 short of the 60 required in the first cloture vote, the Democrats blocked cloture so that they could filibuster the nomination. In Senate vote #109, the rule for cloture on Supreme Court nominations was changed to a simple majority from a 3/5ths threshold.

 

A motion to reconsider was accepted, allowing the first cloture vote to be retaken.

 

Then, in this vote, the cloture vote was retaken under the new rules. With 55 votes again, now 4 more than was needed, cloture was approved and further debate was limited. (Sen. Michael Bennet voted for cloture in the first vote but against cloture in this second vote. Sen. Mitch McConnell, the Majority Leader, voted on the winning side, against cloture, strategically in the first vote so that he could have the vote retaken, and voted for cloture in this second vote, knowing cloture would be adopted this time.)

 

So there's your Roberts Rules of Order lesson of the day,

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35 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I will now point out that the fact that someone has a power, does not justify them abusing it, for probably the fifth time. 

 

Sorry, the Republicans have done this for decades, while holding Democrats in derision as being wimps for not standing up to Republicans.

 

Now Democrats are standing up to Republicans, and it's about time. Beyond time.

 

I hope it continues.

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2 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Did they pay in advance?

 

It was only $300 for the mar a lago inauguration anniversary celebration yesterday and they let anyone that could pay it come in.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/these-are-our-true-friends-trump-fans-flock-to-a-mar-a-lago-celebration/2018/01/19/ba0b7678-fcd3-11e7-a46b-a3614530bd87_story.html?utm_term=.4f125dc2efba

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2 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

"Look what you made me do!"~ said by every abusive boyfriend ever............

 

You been reading this thread? :) 

 

I will also now point out that people have stopped arguing that "the Rs did this". And are instead now arguing that "The D's were justified in doing this, because . . . ". 

 

The Ds are going to own this shutdown. Just like the Rs owned the previous one. Be prepared for the results, in the voting booth. 

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5 hours ago, Larry said:

 

From the fact that 

 

1). The majority hasn't passed it. 

 

2). The minority party has chosen to hold government functioning hostage, in order to get it passed. 

 

 

1. DACA, CHIP, ACA fixes, universal background checks are all supported by a majority of elected officials. The leadership prevents votes on these items for political reasons. 

 

2. If government was actually functioning, CHIP would have been passed months ago, this wouldn’t be yet another CR, and the GOP knowing they needed Dems to vote for this would have actually negotiated with them long instead of thinking the Dems would just cave. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

You been reading this thread? :) 

 

I will also now point out that people have stopped arguing that "the Rs did this". And are instead now arguing that "The D's were justified in doing this, because . . . ". 

 

The Ds are going to own this shutdown. Just like the Rs owned the previous one. Be prepared for the results, in the voting booth. 

 

You sound like a Trump supporter. Kinda surprising.

7 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

Sorry, the Republicans have done this for decades, while holding Democrats in derision as being wimps for not standing up to Republicans.

 

Now Democrats are standing up to Republicans, and it's about time. Beyond time.

 

I hope it continues.

 

I can’t tell if he’s being serious or just trolling today. 

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1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

You are now arguing that it is moral for the minority party to hold the entire government hostage, in order to pass legislation, because the majority party hasn't taken away their ability to do so. 

 

I will now point out that the fact that someone has a power, does not justify them abusing it, for probably the fifth time. 

Good for the goose...and all that.

Someone said the other night that the Dems want to play chess while the GOP is playing MMA.

Sooner or later you adapt and play by their rules or you’re gonna get killed.

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26 minutes ago, Larry said:

The Ds are going to own this shutdown. Just like the Rs owned the previous one. Be prepared for the results, in the voting booth. 

 

LOL.  Four Republicans voted against this.  They have full control the government.  They had a deal with Schumer worked out and Trump reneged on it.  Your exercise in maintaining some sort of abstract balance doesn't hew to the facts of the situation.

 

Republicans know they're going to get blamed if this thing goes on for a while.  They're going to work out a deal and hand Trump a CR to sign.  

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1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

You are now arguing that it is moral for the minority party to hold the entire government hostage, in order to pass legislation, because the majority party hasn't taken away their ability to do so. 

 

I will now point out that the fact that someone has a power, does not justify them abusing it, for probably the fifth time. 

Good for the goose...and all that.

Someone said the other night that the Dems want to play chess while the GOP is playing MMA.

Sooner or later you adapt and play by their rules or you’re gonna get killed.

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4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Good for the goose...and all that.

Someone said the other night that the Dems want to play chess while the GOP is playing MMA.

Sooner or later you adapt and play by their rules or you’re gonna get killed.

 

The second wrong does not make a right.  

 

If it was wrong the first time, it's wrong the second time.  

 

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51 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

You threw two things into that rant. I'm having trouble understanding your argument. 

 

Re: CHIP, you're arguing that the CR should have been filibustered, because it had CHIP funding in it?  

 

Because otherwise your argument becomes "we filibustered this bill because it had two things in it, both of which we wanted". 

 

Re: DACA, your argument appears to be "we were justified in holding the government hostage, because the majority party didn't do what we wanted, sooner". 

My argument is pretty simple.  Your blame is misplaced and inaccurate.  Also there is no fillibuster going on.

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2 hours ago, Springfield said:

 

This is based on the bull**** I’m pulling out of my ass.

 

In my brief time in this country though, I’ve found that we can do great things and “find” the money needed to make them happen.  Only if we want.

 

I think we can get nearly the same level of military presence AND care for all of our citizens at home to boot.  Don’t know how to make it happen, but I’m convinced we can if we want.

If you want to talk about the ridiculous amount of waste in the Department of Defense you will get no argument from me. But the fact doesn't change that being the World Police cost money.

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

Only now the goalposts have been moved from "the system was designed to require 60" to "well, lately everybody's been doing it". 

 

:) 

Right it is a everybody's been doing it. The person that claimed it was law for 60 votes was wrong. But I didn't claim that. But the way things go now it may as well be law.

49 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

You been reading this thread? :) 

 

I will also now point out that people have stopped arguing that "the Rs did this". And are instead now arguing that "The D's were justified in doing this, because . . . ". 

 

The Ds are going to own this shutdown. Just like the Rs owned the previous one. Be prepared for the results, in the voting booth. 

This will have no effect at the voting booth. Everybody already knows what party they're going to vote for. I'm convinced whatever the politicians do from here on will have little effect on how people though. You are either Democrat or Republican and you will vote for your party no matter who they run. I think the evidence has shown that.

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