visionary Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Larry said: You are now arguing that it is moral for the minority party to hold the entire government hostage, Trump and the Republicans did this by getting rid of Daca and forcing Chip into the bill instead of passing it earlier. Everyone else is their hostage. The Democrats offered many compromises yesterday, (probably going farther than most people would like in appeasing Trump on his wall and other nonsense) but Trump and co would rather have their shutdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 42 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said: Yeah, but you know he is pissed not to be in FL, and what anout the people who paid 50k a plate to suck up to him at his gala? Let us all weep for those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 So the government shut down? Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, visionary said: Trump and the Republicans did this by getting rid of Daca and forcing Chip into the bill instead of passing it earlier. Everyone else is their hostage. The Democrats offered many compromises yesterday, (probably going farther than most people would like in appeasing Trump on his wall and other nonsense) but Trump and co would rather have their shutdown. You threw two things into that rant. I'm having trouble understanding your argument. Re: CHIP, you're arguing that the CR should have been filibustered, because it had CHIP funding in it? Because otherwise your argument becomes "we filibustered this bill because it had two things in it, both of which we wanted". Re: DACA, your argument appears to be "we were justified in holding the government hostage, because the majority party didn't do what we wanted, sooner". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 My brothers are already saying they are happy with this. This is why they elected him, they wanted him to shut the gov down to end all the liberal bull****. This is what trump intended to do from the beginning etc. so why is he blaming democrats for it if this is his plan? (Crickets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Quote Trump is telling allies Democrats caused the shutdown but that he will be blamed, a source close to the White House confirms to CNN. "Look what you made me do!"~ said by every abusive boyfriend ever............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 56 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said: Yeah, but you know he is pissed not to be in FL, and what anout the people who paid 50k a plate to suck up to him at his gala? Did they pay in advance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Okay, I'm that kind of person, so I looked it up. McConnell voted against cloture so he could later file for a reconsideration of a motion (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19761010&id=7e4vAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wvoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7017,2742609&hl=en), which under the rules can only be made by someone that voted for the prevailing side. They actually did it with the Gorscuch nomintation: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/s110 This was the third of four significant votes on the nomination of Neil Gorsuch to be a Supreme Court Justice. This vote was the second vote on cloture for Gorsuch's nomination and took place after the rules of the Senate were changed through the so-called "nuclear option." A vote on cloture is a vote to limit further debate to 30 more hours so that an up-or-down vote can be taken, in other words to prevent a filibuster. With only 55 votes in favor, 5 short of the 60 required in the first cloture vote, the Democrats blocked cloture so that they could filibuster the nomination. In Senate vote #109, the rule for cloture on Supreme Court nominations was changed to a simple majority from a 3/5ths threshold. A motion to reconsider was accepted, allowing the first cloture vote to be retaken. Then, in this vote, the cloture vote was retaken under the new rules. With 55 votes again, now 4 more than was needed, cloture was approved and further debate was limited. (Sen. Michael Bennet voted for cloture in the first vote but against cloture in this second vote. Sen. Mitch McConnell, the Majority Leader, voted on the winning side, against cloture, strategically in the first vote so that he could have the vote retaken, and voted for cloture in this second vote, knowing cloture would be adopted this time.) So there's your Roberts Rules of Order lesson of the day, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, Larry said: I will now point out that the fact that someone has a power, does not justify them abusing it, for probably the fifth time. Sorry, the Republicans have done this for decades, while holding Democrats in derision as being wimps for not standing up to Republicans. Now Democrats are standing up to Republicans, and it's about time. Beyond time. I hope it continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Larry said: Did they pay in advance? It was only $300 for the mar a lago inauguration anniversary celebration yesterday and they let anyone that could pay it come in. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/these-are-our-true-friends-trump-fans-flock-to-a-mar-a-lago-celebration/2018/01/19/ba0b7678-fcd3-11e7-a46b-a3614530bd87_story.html?utm_term=.4f125dc2efba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, LD0506 said: "Look what you made me do!"~ said by every abusive boyfriend ever............ You been reading this thread? I will also now point out that people have stopped arguing that "the Rs did this". And are instead now arguing that "The D's were justified in doing this, because . . . ". The Ds are going to own this shutdown. Just like the Rs owned the previous one. Be prepared for the results, in the voting booth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Larry said: From the fact that 1). The majority hasn't passed it. 2). The minority party has chosen to hold government functioning hostage, in order to get it passed. 1. DACA, CHIP, ACA fixes, universal background checks are all supported by a majority of elected officials. The leadership prevents votes on these items for political reasons. 2. If government was actually functioning, CHIP would have been passed months ago, this wouldn’t be yet another CR, and the GOP knowing they needed Dems to vote for this would have actually negotiated with them long instead of thinking the Dems would just cave. 5 minutes ago, Larry said: You been reading this thread? I will also now point out that people have stopped arguing that "the Rs did this". And are instead now arguing that "The D's were justified in doing this, because . . . ". The Ds are going to own this shutdown. Just like the Rs owned the previous one. Be prepared for the results, in the voting booth. You sound like a Trump supporter. Kinda surprising. 7 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: Sorry, the Republicans have done this for decades, while holding Democrats in derision as being wimps for not standing up to Republicans. Now Democrats are standing up to Republicans, and it's about time. Beyond time. I hope it continues. I can’t tell if he’s being serious or just trolling today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Nope, Democrats are going to prevail in the voting booth. Only Trump's base will vote as he tells them, and it's not enough. People are tired of G reedy O bstrutionist P revaricators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Hersh said: I can’t tell if he’s being serious or just trolling today. How about "being consistent on an issue, instead of changing positions when the party labels change"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Larry said: You are now arguing that it is moral for the minority party to hold the entire government hostage, in order to pass legislation, because the majority party hasn't taken away their ability to do so. I will now point out that the fact that someone has a power, does not justify them abusing it, for probably the fifth time. Good for the goose...and all that. Someone said the other night that the Dems want to play chess while the GOP is playing MMA. Sooner or later you adapt and play by their rules or you’re gonna get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, Larry said: The Ds are going to own this shutdown. Just like the Rs owned the previous one. Be prepared for the results, in the voting booth. LOL. Four Republicans voted against this. They have full control the government. They had a deal with Schumer worked out and Trump reneged on it. Your exercise in maintaining some sort of abstract balance doesn't hew to the facts of the situation. Republicans know they're going to get blamed if this thing goes on for a while. They're going to work out a deal and hand Trump a CR to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, Larry said: How about "being consistent on an issue, instead of changing positions when the party labels change"? How are you being consistent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Larry said: You are now arguing that it is moral for the minority party to hold the entire government hostage, in order to pass legislation, because the majority party hasn't taken away their ability to do so. I will now point out that the fact that someone has a power, does not justify them abusing it, for probably the fifth time. Good for the goose...and all that. Someone said the other night that the Dems want to play chess while the GOP is playing MMA. Sooner or later you adapt and play by their rules or you’re gonna get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Good for the goose...and all that. Someone said the other night that the Dems want to play chess while the GOP is playing MMA. Sooner or later you adapt and play by their rules or you’re gonna get killed. The second wrong does not make a right. If it was wrong the first time, it's wrong the second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 51 minutes ago, Larry said: You threw two things into that rant. I'm having trouble understanding your argument. Re: CHIP, you're arguing that the CR should have been filibustered, because it had CHIP funding in it? Because otherwise your argument becomes "we filibustered this bill because it had two things in it, both of which we wanted". Re: DACA, your argument appears to be "we were justified in holding the government hostage, because the majority party didn't do what we wanted, sooner". My argument is pretty simple. Your blame is misplaced and inaccurate. Also there is no fillibuster going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Springfield said: This is based on the bull**** I’m pulling out of my ass. In my brief time in this country though, I’ve found that we can do great things and “find” the money needed to make them happen. Only if we want. I think we can get nearly the same level of military presence AND care for all of our citizens at home to boot. Don’t know how to make it happen, but I’m convinced we can if we want. If you want to talk about the ridiculous amount of waste in the Department of Defense you will get no argument from me. But the fact doesn't change that being the World Police cost money. 1 hour ago, Larry said: Only now the goalposts have been moved from "the system was designed to require 60" to "well, lately everybody's been doing it". Right it is a everybody's been doing it. The person that claimed it was law for 60 votes was wrong. But I didn't claim that. But the way things go now it may as well be law. 49 minutes ago, Larry said: You been reading this thread? I will also now point out that people have stopped arguing that "the Rs did this". And are instead now arguing that "The D's were justified in doing this, because . . . ". The Ds are going to own this shutdown. Just like the Rs owned the previous one. Be prepared for the results, in the voting booth. This will have no effect at the voting booth. Everybody already knows what party they're going to vote for. I'm convinced whatever the politicians do from here on will have little effect on how people though. You are either Democrat or Republican and you will vote for your party no matter who they run. I think the evidence has shown that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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