Trump and his cabinet/buffoonery- Get your bunkers ready!

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[RedskinsFan44]

6 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

 

He's the perfect fit to sell a "national emergency". Shameless.

[Larry]

6 hours ago, nonniey said:

Proof is in the pudding Obamacare was a health insurance coverage expansion not health access expansion. The effect was providing health insurance to those who couldn't previously afford it at the expense of many who could previously afford it.  So what happened was the over all use of the health industry declined because those that we're newly covered were less likely to use the insurance due to the cost of co-pays than those who lost insurance were (Basically you eliminated a chunk of people that could more afford co-pays and deductibles and replaced them with people that could less afford them).

 

My, what a complicated way of saying "Obamacare insures millions of people, but total spending on health care went up slightly less than it was before, therefore it made things worse."  

 

(And that's even before we get to your claim that people who got insured, and now had deductibles, were less likely to use health care than when they didn't have any insurance at all.)  

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

By the way, don't just go by the picture.

 

Quote

 

Jaden Rams used to be on fire for Donald Trump. Shortly before the 2016 presidential election, when he was 13, he put on a red MAGA hat and matching tie and yelled his support at a rally in his hometown, Grand Junction, Colo.

 

“I was getting politically charged around that time,” he said. “I was pretty passionate about a lot of the causes he was advocating for.”

 

Today he calls the presidential campaign and its aftermath “a travesty for American unity.” He believes President Trump has fulfilled his campaign promises, but added that “I don’t feel largely those have been positive.” Two years closer to voting age, he now leans left, and said he would register as an independent.

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

[Larry]

1 minute ago, visionary said:

 

 

Uh, I'm pretty sure that "cloture" <> "nuclear".  Pretty sure they're mutually exclusive.  

 

[nonniey]

5 hours ago, Larry said:

 

My, what a complicated way of saying "Obamacare insures millions of people, but total spending on health care went up slightly less than it was before, therefore it made things worse."  

 

(And that's even before we get to your claim that people who got insured, and now had deductibles, were less likely to use health care than when they didn't have any insurance at all.)  

 

Actually it is an explanation in why fewer people are actually using the health care system. Utilization went down despite coverage going up. Oh and spending accelerated (it didn't go up slightly it sky rocketed).  Look at the link below the graph on the first page lays out the decline in use, and spending acceleration.

 

As for the second point I thought you could have followed what I stated (this might not be saying much but you're normally a bit sharper than No Excuses). The people that lost insurance due to Obamacare were more able to pay co-pays and deductibles than those that replaced them. So you have poorer people getting cheep insurance that they were required to take but less likely to fully use than those who lost it (who now can't use the health care system to the same extent due to lack of insurance). 

 

https://www.healthcostinstitute.org/research/annual-reports/entry/2017-health-care-cost-and-utilization-report

[visionary]

 

[AsburySkinsFan]

 

[visionary]

 

[The Evil Genius]

 

But hey, I'm sure it's ok. I means it's Obama's fault that Rick Scott had to defraud Medicare right? 

[Captain Wiggles]

I use my Obamacare regularly. Da fuq Trump talkin bout?

 

 

[The Evil Genius]

2 minutes ago, clietas said:

I use my Obamacare regularly. Da fuq Trump talkin bout?

 

 

 

You use so you don't overdose on meth and oxy right? 😂

[nonniey]

3 minutes ago, clietas said:

I use my Obamacare regularly. Da fuq Trump talkin bout?

 

 

Are you poor? 

[Captain Wiggles]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

You use so you don't overdose on meth and oxy right? 😂

 

Of course.

1 minute ago, nonniey said:

Are you poor?

 

Kinda.

[The Evil Genius]

Compared to Predicto we're all poor. 

[Hersh]

Wait, so Trump is saying that his health care plan that's being developed by Congress (even though he claimed he had the best health care plans in 2016) won't be voted on until after the november elections of 2020? 19 months from now in a lame duck session? Dude is so detached from reality, but I appreciate him helping the Dems with the 2020 election. 

[nonniey]

14 minutes ago, clietas said:

 

Of course.

 

Kinda.

But co-pays or deductables don't concern you?  How hard is it to comprehend that someone that makes $50-$70K may be more willing to use the Health Cares system at $30-$50 a pop (never mind dipping into the deductible catagory) than someone who makes $20K.  Those making $20K are likely to use it less. So you add 25-30 million people making less than $50K to insurance coverage while kicking off 5-10 million making $50-70K. Utilization statistics show that fewer people are now using the system - how do you explain that? 

 

Bottomline - the US is spending exponentially more for Health Care since Obama care was enacted and getting less of it.

[bcl05]

4 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 

Bottomline is the US is spending exponentially more for Health Care since Obama care was enacted and getting less of it.

 

That is simply the opposite of true.  Overall health care spending has gone up incrementally since the ACA was passed, but the rate of increase has actually gone down.  It is not "exponentially more."  

 

Source:  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2017/094.pdf

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/assessing-the-cost-and-performance-of-the-u-s-health-system/#item-start

 

Now, we certainly spend more than we should, and our health outcomes are shameful.  I would argue that the vast bulk of the inefficiency in our hybrid public/private system is the massive profits taken by health insurance corporations, hospital administrators, and pharmaceutical companies.  Obamacare did a small amount to make those problems better, but not nearly enough (partly because of too many compromises with the GOP, and partly because of sabotaging of the law by GOP lawmakers).  Every plan proposed by the GOP would make those problems much worse, not better.  

 

[Captain Wiggles]

Yeah it concerns me. Which is why single payer is the only solution. Not using peoples livelihood as a means to get reelected. 

 

Idk why people are using the system less tho. Kale? Hot yoga? Boomers finally dying off? I mean rise in fitness, healthy eating, n decrease in smoking could be factors not just economics.

 

 

[nonniey]

3 minutes ago, bcl05 said:

 

That is simply the opposite of true.  Overall health care spending has gone up incrementally since the ACA was passed, but the rate of increase has actually gone down.  It is not "exponentially more."  

 

Source:  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2017/094.pdf

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/assessing-the-cost-and-performance-of-the-u-s-health-system/#item-start

 

Now, we certainly spend more than we should, and our health outcomes are shameful.  I would argue that the vast bulk of the inefficiency in our hybrid public/private system is the massive profits taken by health insurance corporations, hospital administrators, and pharmaceutical companies.  Obamacare did a small amount to make those problems better, but not nearly enough (partly because of too many compromises with the GOP, and partly because of sabotaging of the law by GOP lawmakers).  Every plan proposed by the GOP would make those problems much worse, not better.  

 

I see that table didn't take into account that fewer people are using it. 

[The Evil Genius]

This admin is petty af. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hersh]

17 minutes ago, nonniey said:

I see that table didn't take into account that fewer people are using it. 

 

You should read the entire report on the link you shared on the previous page. There is some "utilization" nuance in it. 

 

Pay attention to the reason listed for utilization decrease in radiology for example. Also in EET prescription drugs and to say nothing of the general way they count utilization. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

live look at nonniey debating Obamacare