NoCalMike Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Not here to bash the guy. It was one game against a very well coached team. Didn't think he was great, didn't think he was awful. Obviously shaky early on but I thought recovered somewhat. The question I am asking though is whether you feel Kirk is too much of a statue in the pocket? The guy is no "running QB" but he isn't immobile, and he does have some athleticism. However, I have noticed that he sits in the pocket to no end most of the time. One aspect to beating a zone defense is extending plays and allowing your WRs or TEs to find the soft spots in the zone. Plays have to go a little longer to develop. I don't want Kirk to become "Crazy Legs" Cousins or anything but it would be nice if he got a little more mobile behind the line and I am not talking about drawn up bootlegs. Sometimes it seems like he is either refusing or scared to move around or "escape" the collapsing pocket. The obviously play is the one where he could have easily ran the 9 yards for a 1st down, but I am more just speaking in general. You have skill position players that the secondary won't be able to cover forever, but it feels like he makes up his mind to throw it so quick sometimes that there is just no hope for the play. Contrast that with Big Ben who is a big, heavy, slow QB, but anytime he is any kind of danger he is shifting, moving, eluding, taking a couple steps this way or that way, or forward to setup a pass downfield that wasn't there just a couple seconds ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 He just looks so timid in the pocket sometimes. It's like his mind is racing and he's so ****ing nervous in big games. Maybe he's so concerned with making the right read, he forgets about running? Whenever he scrambles out of the pocket, I just concede the play. This was such a disappointing performance. He HAS to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Kirk needs to put on his big boy pants now. He is the same age Ryp was in '91 with similar questions and issues and on a 1 year deal. Ryp delivered that year. Kirk has played incredibly small Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 when was kirk playing small when he decimated every team he faced last year in a must win game every week at the end of last season? this was a bad game from all involved most of our plays are not necessarily meant to be extended, but of course there is room for improvement from everyone after this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaLazarou Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 He is what he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, petedaddy said: when was kirk playing small when he decimated every team he faced last year in a must win game every week at the end of last season? this was a bad game from all involved most of our plays are not necessarily meant to be extended, but of course there is room for improvement from everyone after this game Listen I love Kirk. But this guys wants to be paid like "the guy". He performed great during the stretch but he had stinkers too. Dallas was bad. The playoff game was bad. Tonight was bad. It cannot be a coin flip. As for the topic of the thread, it goes back to the lack of confidence that is pretty clear to see. He's trying so hard not to **** up sometimes that he makes himself **** up. He's not slow. He should be moving around. He doesn't because he's still lacking confidence imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, petedaddy said: when was kirk playing small when he decimated every team he faced last year in a must win game every week at the end of last season? this was a bad game from all involved most of our plays are not necessarily meant to be extended, but of course there is room for improvement from everyone after this game He did against a bad Cowboys team on MNF. The only under the lights win was against an Iggles team that had quit against Kelly. In primetime he has been small. As has Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, SkinsHokieFan said: He did against a bad Cowboys team on MNF. The only under the lights win was against an Iggles team that had quit against Kelly. In primetime he has been small. As has Jay so it only counts if it's a national primetime game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 He needs to be less robotic - but I don't know how or if you develop that. Rodgers and Big Ben feel the game and react to it. They flip the ball backhanded, run in 4 different directions, and control the pace of the game. Cousins plays very well a lot of the time but he generally does so within the context of the offense by ensuring that the diagram in his playbook is executed precisely on the field. So, in some ways, the trait that keeps him from improvising and extending plays is the same one that leads to a lot of his success. This season will be interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I want to fault Kirk, but I doubt its kirks fault that Lich had 2 penalties for double clutching the ball. Nor was it his fault that trent held on a running play, or that Matt jones falls down the first defender to hit him head on. We showed glimmer of being a team that could overcome those mistakes early, but only so many. The team looked ****y, and entitled, and deserved to lose. I don't know why we got run over so badly in the second half though, not that I expected us to be world beaters there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 16 minutes ago, petedaddy said: when was kirk playing small when he decimated every team he faced last year in a must win game every week at the end of last season? this was a bad game from all involved most of our plays are not necessarily meant to be extended, but of course there is room for improvement from everyone after this game When does he play good against good teams? Ya just can't play good against bad teams. You have to occasionally beat the good teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Maybe the reality is he's just not a $20 mil a year QB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Just now, DM72 said: When does he play good against good teams? Ya just can't play good against bad teams. You have to occasionally beat the good teams. you can only play who is on your schedule, he played well against the pats, but the entire rest of the team was flat, similar to how we were tonight (maybe jay gruden isn't good at getting us ready after a long layoff, the pats game was off our bye last year) the eagles would have been a .500 team without the two losses we handed them, the giants weren't exactly a terrible team, the bills weren't terrible, they finished 8-8 (in same division as pats, so that's two of their losses) i think too much is made of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Kirk might have messed up not signing the contract offered to him, because regardless of his 2016 stat line at the end of the season, if he doesn't beat .500+ teams again over the course of an entire season, it will definitely affect how much he gets paid, whether it is by this team or another. It did show confidence that he bet on himself this offseason, but it could also hurt his pocket book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 He had that nervous way too amped up look the entire game. Not quite deer-in-the-headlights but something close. There also seems to be absolutely no flow or consistently to the play calling. So much blame to go around though--at least we know how to put together complete and total team losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Taylor703 said: Maybe the reality is he's just not a $20 mil a year QB.... He's not currently a $20M QB, but hopefully he becomes one. I missed the first quarter, but it sounds like even when we drove down the field early in the game, he was underthrowing the ball. The next 4 months will be interesting to see if we made the prudent decision to wait and see with Cousins. I so want him to be the guy. He's likable, has a great story, etc. But if he doesn't step into the role, it's on him. SHF made a nice analogy to Rypien...we had questions about if he could take the next step from 1990 and turnover-prone to 1991 and elite (for a year). He stepped up with a stronger supporting cast. So far though, Cousins has struggled against the good teams he's faced (Giants, Jets, Panthers, Packers, Steelers, etc.). That is the monkey he'll have to get off his back to progress to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsPassion4Life Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 This is my biggest criticism of Kirk....does not extend plays....I wish he had Colt McCoy's play making mindset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Its not so much extending plays as it is using his legs to pick up free yardage that the D gives you. I mean if it 3rd and 8 and they're playing soft coverage and giving you 9 yards underneath, just run and take it. He is fairly mobile and athletic, probably above the NFL average for QBs, and has proven he can move and run. He gets a bit too robotic at times, like he absolutely has to run the system exactly as is, but the great QBs have to sometimes make a play by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 It's hard to be down on Cousins for this game specifically where the overall team was so overmatched and outcoached. I don't think he played particularly well, but he wasn't a disaster either. He performed about as well as the rest of the team. I think my main hang up about Cousins is that I don't feel he is really a "difference maker" at the position. Now, with that said the last two games he has played, it has been against arguably the two best and most consistent QBs in the league (other than Brady). Two guys that can pretty much do it all at the position. Cousins wants to be paid like those guys, or at least close to it from the numbers we hear he was floating around. I don't see that happening unless he adds some intangibles to his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 26 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: He needs to be less robotic - but I don't know how or if you develop that. Rodgers and Big Ben feel the game and react to it. They flip the ball backhanded, run in 4 different directions, and control the pace of the game. Cousins plays very well a lot of the time but he generally does so within the context of the offense by ensuring that the diagram in his playbook is executed precisely on the field. So, in some ways, the trait that keeps him from improvising and extending plays is the same one that leads to a lot of his success. This season will be interesting... 7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Its not so much extending plays as it is using his legs to pick up free yardage that the D gives you. I mean if it 3rd and 8 and they're playing soft coverage and giving you 9 yards underneath, just run and take it. He is fairly mobile and athletic, probably above the NFL average for QBs, and has proven he can move and run. He gets a bit too robotic at times, like he absolutely has to run the system exactly as is, but the great QBs have to sometimes make a play by themselves. Wow - exactly what I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 His lack of scrambling was puzzling. I always thought Kirk had good pocket and field awareness. He looked clueless out there tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 I think in THIS game specifically, you saw the contrast between what happens when a QB uses instincts vs a QB who is coached specifically to "run a play" There were numerous times that our secondary had plays bottled up, and the pressure was collapsing towards Ben, and he didn't rush to just throw it somewhere or settle, he'd move around a little, away from the pressure just enough to give a few extra seconds of time for would-be ball carriers to break free from the initial coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mexaskin Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I don't put this on kirk. He made mistakes of course. But he didn't jump offsides, or get stupid holding calls. Oline and especially the dine own this ass whipping. Even trent had a stupid jump. Hard to win when every 1st down is 1st and 15 or 20. It also eliminates the run threat. That's correctable. The dine getting owned is not correctable. We definitely need to explore options there. Golston as a starter is a joke. Please bring Knighton in. Atleast as a situational guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Just from fhe eye test, Kirk looks to be a system QB. He can rack up points, yards and wins when the ball gets rolling and proven last year but I just don't see elite in him. I'm not sure if one is elite or can become elite but I think it was wise to wait and see with his contract. Only scoring 16 points is extremely bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I think you have to be careful comparing a old cagey veteran with a guy that has a great deal less experience. Ben Roethlisberger early in his career wasn't the guy you saw on the field today. I think Kirk is good enough to win if the team around him was at least average at everything and doesn't sabotage it's own drives with penalties. He's at the stage in his development where he needs to go right, not where he will consistently convert 3rd and long. Also before we pin this on Kirk let's remember that despite the turnovers he also completed 69.8% of his passes and threw for over 329 yards. As bad as he was, the passing game was the only positive thing the Redskins had going beyond the 1st quarter. The defense couldn't stop anything the Steelers did and the Redskins running game simply wasn't a factor in this football game. When this team plays well, and all the parts of it are at least somewhat effective, I think the Redskins will win a lot of games. If this team is going to be entirely unable to run the ball or play defense this is going to be a long year. Kirk isn't a super star and even teams that do have star QBs don't make the playoffs if they are bad at everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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