petedaddy Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Cousins is not yet a difference maker at QB. disagree with you some there, Cousins was the DIFFERENCE maker for us last season whether that will be consistent remains to be seen, but as you pointed out, he has less than 2 full seasons of starts under his belt Big Ben was a big meat puppet for his first couple of seasons in Pitt...obviously they had the teams to get him up to speed and he ran with it, but time will tell with Kirk I believe he will continue to be the difference maker for us and will continue to grow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Cousins is not yet a difference maker at QB. Bruh Kirk WAS a difference maker last night-- just in the wrong direction. smh People making excuses like he didn't have a run game to back him up... doesn't make sense. He had tons of time in the pocket and zone-beaters down the field-- just couldn't find them. Yes the run game is an issue, but that's not the reason he didn't play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Just now, CapsSkins said: Bruh Kirk WAS a difference maker last night-- just in the wrong direction. smh People making excuses like he didn't have a run game to back him up... doesn't make sense. He had tons of time in the pocket and zone-beaters down the field-- just couldn't find them. Yes the run game is an issue, but that's not the reason he didn't play well. kirk was the least of our problems last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, petedaddy said: kirk was the least of our problems last night No way, he was one of the biggest problems last night. Kirk, DL, run game, penalties in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, petedaddy said: disagree with you some there, Cousins was the DIFFERENCE maker for us last season whether that will be consistent remains to be seen, but as you pointed out, he has less than 2 full seasons of starts under his belt Big Ben was a big meat puppet for his first couple of seasons in Pitt...obviously they had the teams to get him up to speed and he ran with it, but time will tell with Kirk I believe he will continue to be the difference maker for us and will continue to grow Kirk was a difference maker when we played teams with a losing record. What difference was he making for us that led to a 3-6 record? Again it's not all on him, but the difference maker's at QB find ways to get it done despite the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Just now, NoCalMike said: Kirk was a difference maker when we played teams with a losing record. What difference was he making for us that led to a 3-6 record? Again it's not all on him, but the difference maker's at QB find ways to get it done despite the odds. like the 2008 green bay packers who went 6-10 in aaron rodgers' first season as starter? 4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: No way, he was one of the biggest problems last night. Kirk, DL, run game, penalties in that order. wow, the day after crowd amazes me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: No way, he was one of the biggest problems last night. Kirk, DL, run game, penalties in that order. Cant objectively call Kirk the biggest of our issues. Not ever tackling a running back was out single biggest issue. After that was Krik though smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Llevron said: Cant objectively call Kirk the biggest of our issues. Not ever tackling a running back was out single biggest issue. After that was Krik though smh Kirk and DL are close. Reason I put Kirk number 1 is that our offense has the weapons to win a shootout. Kirk had plenty of time in the pocket, wasn't pressured, and had open receivers-- we were absolutely in position to put TD's on the board and with the momentum swings it could have made it anyone's game. The DL sucked but we knew it was going to suck, and nobody on the DL is making $20M a year. Kirk underperformed more than the JAGs on the DL underperformed, and that's why I labelled him the biggest issue of the night. But you're right. When your MLB's finish Week 1 leading the NFL in tackles, you know the DL is an issue. 8 minutes ago, petedaddy said: like the 2008 green bay packers who went 6-10 in aaron rodgers' first season as starter? wow, the day after crowd amazes me And the Kirk apologists amaze me. It's like years of watching terrible QB play has pushed the bar so low for some of y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake88 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Some good points being made here. As bad as our run game and run defense was....we are built to score points through the air. We failed at cashing in on our identity, that Falls on Kirk. He had limited oppurrunities but he squandered nearly every chance he had. Hopefully he shakes off the rust and buries the Cowboys this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: Kirk and DL are close. Reason I put Kirk number 1 is that our offense has the weapons to win a shootout. Kirk had plenty of time in the pocket, wasn't pressured, and had open receivers-- we were absolutely in position to put TD's on the board and with the momentum swings it could have made it anyone's game. The DL sucked but we knew it was going to suck, and nobody on the DL is making $20M a year. Kirk underperformed more than the JAGs on the DL underperformed, and that's why I labelled him the biggest issue of the night. But you're right. When your MLB's finish Week 1 leading the NFL in tackles, you know the DL is an issue. And the Kirk apologists amaze me. It's like years of watching terrible QB play has pushed the bar so low for some of y'all. i saw your post in another topic of wanting to bring garoppolo in, tells me all i need to know about you, moving on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I thought Kirk had as poor a game as I've seen from him. It's particularly troubling, because I thought he had gotten past the "way-too-hyped-nervous-going-to-have-a-heart-attach" approach. He looked totally out of sorts all night. It almost looked like an out of body experience: he was out there on the field, but he couldn't get his mind to slow down and focus. That's bad Kirk. Hopefully, he got it out of his system, and looks more like good Kirk from here on out. Just one stark example: on the four yrd loss from Matt Jones early in the game, Kirk checked into a run, and then motioned for Jones to move to the other side (the wrong side, since Kirk checked into a run with the blocking going in the other direction). That just shows you how out of sorts he was. He's got to learn to channel his nerves if he ever wants to be a legit star in this league. Hopefully that comes with time--in reality, this is really only his second season as a starter. All that aside, if we had managed to convert FGs into TDs, it might have been a different game; at the very least, it would have been a more competitive game. Once the Steelers scored the first TD on the 4th and 1, it seemed like we really got down on ourselves. At that point, Gruden and Co and the team leaders, have to coach people up and get them to stop hanging their heads. There's also the fact that in the third quarter, there needed to be much more urgency coming in and out of the huddle. Again, that to me is coaching. Long story short, it was a mix of poor coaching and preparedness and very poor execution by players who have to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, petedaddy said: i saw your post in another topic of wanting to bring garoppolo in, tells me all i need to know about you, moving on Jimmy G has a nice touch on the deep ball which Kirk lacks. Could take Gruden's system to the next level and won't cost $20M doing it either. Wouldn't discount the learning experience of watching one of the greatest of all time. If that's so objectionable to you that you're not going to engage, so be it, but it's neither knee-jerk nor irrational. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I think the coaching staff needs to actually back up the idea that they trust Kirk and let him throw the damn ball downfield. Not that Kirk helped himself last night, he was pretty damn bad, but if every play is designed to be 6-7 yards ... F that, we have weapons this year, let him win you games if you trust him. Also, when half our drives end up being 1st and 15's, that is ****ing crippling, especially when you don't have balls to do down the field to begin with. How did we not attempt a deep ball to DeSean before late 4th Q? Why is he on this team? 35 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: No way, he was one of the biggest problems last night. Kirk, DL, run game, penalties in that order. No way, the DL was the biggest issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 41 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Kirk was a difference maker when we played teams with a losing record. What difference was he making for us that led to a 3-6 record? Again it's not all on him, but the difference maker's at QB find ways to get it done despite the odds. Difference maker's do not win much on very bad teams. Drew Brees tossed 32 touchdowns and just 11 interceptions last season. His team won 7 games and he watched the playoffs on TV. Phillip Rivers managed 29 touchdowns and 13 interceptions and his team won 4 games. Are those guys not difference makers? Why couldn't they get it done despite the odds? I'll tell you why, it's because the notion that QBs win all by themselves is horse****. Neither team could run the ball or play defense. Awful defense + awful running game = losing. Exceptions, and there are some, prove the rule. A good QB makes winning a great deal easier but they don't just magically make the rest of the team unimportant. Teams can't be horrible at everything other than passing the ball and expect to beat good teams in the NFL unless those other teams self destruct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, Destino said: Difference maker's do not win much on bad teams. Drew Brees tossed 32 touchdowns and just 11 interceptions last season. His team won 7 games and he watched the playoffs on TV. Phillip Rivers managed 29 touchdowns and 13 interceptions and his team won 4 games. Are those guys not difference makers? Why couldn't they get it done despite the odds? I'll tell you why, it's because the notion that QBs win all by themselves is horse****. Neither team could run the ball or play defense. Awful defense + awful running game = losing. Exceptions, and there are some, prove the rule. Ok but you are also comparing proven QB's who have already shown to be difference makers with Kirk, who has yet to show he can be one. I know Kirk can't and won't get it done "all by himself" and I never suggested he do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 16 minutes ago, Destino said: Difference maker's do not win much on very bad teams. Drew Brees tossed 32 touchdowns and just 11 interceptions last season. His team won 7 games and he watched the playoffs on TV. Phillip Rivers managed 29 touchdowns and 13 interceptions and his team won 4 games. Are those guys not difference makers? Why couldn't they get it done despite the odds? I'll tell you why, it's because the notion that QBs win all by themselves is horse****. Neither team could run the ball or play defense. Awful defense + awful running game = losing. Exceptions, and there are some, prove the rule. A good QB makes winning a great deal easier but they don't just magically make the rest of the team unimportant. Teams can't be horrible at everything other than passing the ball and expect to beat good teams in the NFL unless those other teams self destruct. very nice commentary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Ok but you are also comparing proven QB's who have already shown to be difference makers with Kirk, who has yet to show he can be one. I know Kirk can't and won't get it done "all by himself" and I never suggested he do that. and I'm saying that if you look at the teams around the "difference makers" that are consistently in the playoffs, you'll find teams better than what the Redskins marched onto the field last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Pretty much the whole team was bad, and that very much includes Kirk. Not going to rank who was "most to blame", because IMO it is pointless. But he simply did not play well...certainly not like a $20 million QB. He looked uncomfortable, was missing open guys, was throwing behind and low, was very hesitant and missed multiple opportunities to make some plays with his legs or at least extend drives. He looked far closer to 2014 or first half of 2015 Kirk than he did latter half of 2015 Kirk and that's a bit worrying. We'll see how things shake out over the next few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 If he was a difference maker, he makes a better throw to Reed in the endzone and doesn't throw that worm burner at Crowder. He set the tone by coming out scared. Everyone could feel it in the stadium after that pass. I was at the game. I hated his body language running on and off the field. I still like Kirk but that **** is not acceptable. He needs to come out and attack Dallas like he did in Texas last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Barbour Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 The whole narrative that Kirk hasn't beaten a team with a winning record is so dumb. What's Trent Williams record against a winning team? How about the Dline? Or maybe Djax? Matter of fact. What's the Redskins record against winning opponents in the past 10 years? Dumb dumb dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, William Barbour said: The whole narrative that Kirk hasn't beaten a team with a winning record is so dumb. What's Trent Williams record against a winning team? How about the Dline? Or maybe Djax? Matter of fact. What's the Redskins record against winning opponents in the past 10 years? Dumb dumb dumb. *Psst* All of those guys have had good games against good teams. Not only does Kirk not win, he looks poor as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Barbour Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said: *Psst* All of those guys have had good games against good teams. Not only does Kirk not win, he looks poor as well. Kirk has had good games against good teams but still lost. Nice Try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, William Barbour said: Kirk has had good games against good teams but still lost. Nice Try those examples are few and far between. I've been accused of being a Kirk stan on many social media platforms but even I can admit that this is a big flaw that is deeply concerning. I am curious to know which good teams you think he played well against. I mean I guess the iggles weren't awful last year but what else is there? I defended the guy against this exact same criticism. But after watching him wilt against GB, PIT, and ask for elite type money, things are different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Kirk was definately a problem last night. Look, if a player and their management hold hostage a team for a big payday then you'd better expect mush higher expectations of your performance and scrutiny of that said performance. It was dreadful. Yes, last half of last year was just specatular and they parlayed that into a big payday. Congrats. But now here's where the rubber meets the road. Do it again all the time. That's what's expected now that you've position yourself as a 20 million dollar man. IMO was just a piss poor performance no matter how you look at it. Sorry but if you posiition yourself as a 20 million $$ man then play like it. The team doesn't get a rebate when you just stink to high heaven. It's one game but...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Yes. Yes he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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