Burgold

Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

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1 minute ago, Taylor703 said:

What's the point of this? Not trying to be a jerk Ron, just asking. 

Think about the racial make up of league.  I think Torts would be hard pressed to make the same comment if he was coaching in the NFL, or Team USA for basketball.  Getting comments from guys like David Backes, etc. does nothing for me due to the high probability they are not understanding why a prominent athlete like Kap is protesting in the manner that he is. 

I get why Torts thinks the way he does because he has a direct connection with the military.  However, seeing things from another person's POV can go a long way in sparking a good discussion as to how to come up with ideas to bridge the gap. 

Putting your stick in the mud and refusing to budge, to me, is a HUGE problem.  One of which does not promote any kind of discourse. 

You can have an opposing POV, however as Nate Boyer and Kap proved, sitting down in the same room for an extended period of time and hearing perspectives from both sides can lead to compromises. 

19 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

Has nothing to do with it... though people choose to make it that way. He says stand during the national anthem or you'll be benched. His son is an Army Ranger. He sees it as a sign of respect, so in theory, you're disrespecting his son. 

Find another way to protest if you're so inclined.

It actually has everything to do with it.  You're not playing in an overly diverse league, so there's a very good chance you're not understanding things from a different perspective. 

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Just now, PokerPacker said:

How do you know his son has no say?  Because his son doesn't directly speak to the media?

He has spoken for his son. He could've said,"My son is a Ranger and he is offended by this." Maybe I misread Semper's post, but it sounds like simply because his son is in the military he has placed this anthem/flag issue as a disrespect to his son's service. 

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Just now, Gamebreaker said:

He has spoken for his son. He could've said,"My son is a Ranger and he is offended by this." Maybe I misread Semper's post, but it sounds like simply because his son is in the military he has placed this anthem/flag issue as a disrespect to his son's service. 

On top of it all, Kap's kneeling has NOTHING to do with the military. 

I read something yesterday, that the four dolphins players who kneeled during the anthem, all were applauding/cheering/cheering standing during the 9/11 tribute beforehand. 

It was an adidas/RG3 motto from a few years back (know your why,") but it might help others if they took the time know THE "why" and try to understand the reason(s) behind why athletes from different sports are choosing to exercise their 1st amendment rights in protest. 

What's going on now is powerful and is leading to something...not sure what it is just yet, but there's a lot of support/momentum behind this movement. 

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51 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

It's a military credit union and his kneeling during the national anthem...what exactly are you not getting? 

 

This protest had absolutely nothing to do with the military from the beginning. What are you and they not getting?

Edited by DM72
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As far as Trotz.  This is the World Cup of hockey and the players are playing for team USA.  The flag and the anthem are a part of the team.  I see no problem sitting a player who doesn't support the team.

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32 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

He has spoken for his son. He could've said,"My son is a Ranger and he is offended by this." Maybe I misread Semper's post, but it sounds like simply because his son is in the military he has placed this anthem/flag issue as a disrespect to his son's service. 

He could say a lot of things.  Tortorella isn't interested in ****-footing around with his words, though.  Regardless, that says nothing to the level of say his son has on the matter.

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2 minutes ago, PokerPacker said:

He could say a lot of things.  Tortorella isn't interested in ****-footing around with his words, though.  Regardless, that says nothing to the level of say his son has on the matter.

 

Tortorella is the voice...His son is fighting a battle to preserve everyone's rights and Tortorella is a pro-hockey team coach who can also spread a message. You put on the USA colors and you will stand, or your happy ass will be sitting on the bench, no questions asked. It IS a sign of respect, regardless of anyone who wants to put shame to it like they have everything else.

Weren't there some who were protesting the "Don't Tread On Me" flag not too long ago as well? What's next?

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25 minutes ago, DM72 said:

 

This protest had absolutely nothing to do with the military from the beginning. What are you and they not getting?

Probably bc standing during the national anthem is to honor the flag and those who protect and have died protecting our flag. 

Honoring the flag is intimately intertwined with honoring our military .. regardless of Kaep's explanation that he respects our military. 

Just too closely related and some people think that if Kaep and others respect the military then perhaps they should find another avenue to make their political statement. Something that is not so closely related to honoring the military. 

Regardless, as long as a person is being respectful, I dont care if they stand or not.  

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Adam Jones on MLB's lack of Kaepernick protest: 'Baseball is a white man's sport'

 

“Kaepernick is not disrespecting the military. He’s not disrespecting people who they’re fighting. What he’s doing is showing that he doesn’t like the social injustice that the flag represents.

“Look, I know a lot of people who don’t even know the words to the national anthem. You know how many times I see people stand up for the national anthem and not pay attention. They stand because they’re told to stand.

“That’s the problem. Just don’t do something because you’re told to do something. Do it because you understand the meaning behind it and the sacrifice behind it.’’

Whether you agree or disagree with Kaepernick’s method to draw attention to the inequalities in this country, Jones is dismayed how the public views Kaepernick compared to 49er teammates. Go ahead, check out the difference in coverage since Kapernick sat during the national anthem compared to his teammate, Bruce Miller. Miller was arrested last week and charged with aggravated assault, elder abuse, threats and battery against 70-year-old man and his 29-year-old son. The 49ers later released him.

“Here’s my thing,’’ Jones says, “there’s somebody on the 49ers’ team that commits an act like that, accosts a 70-year-old man and his kid, and nobody’s talking about that. But they talk about Kaepernick doing something that he believes in, as his right as an American citizen. People need to talk more about that guy than Kaepernick.

“He’s not receiving the ridicule and public torture that Kaepernick is facing. Is Kaepernick hurting me? No. Is he hurting random people out there? No. I support his decision.

“At the end of the day, if you don’t respect his freedoms, then why the hell are we Americans? It’s supposed to be the Land of the Free, right?’’

 

 

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Calling it a "White Man's Sport" is not going to help your cause... you're just separating yourself. Bruce Miller was a spotlight for a few days, but he's also a Fullback on a ****ty team where most of the conversation ends up on the only noteable player, Colin Kaepernick or Blaine Gabbert. Colin also has followers now, so it stayed in the spotlight... media goes with the hot story. Doesn't matter if he's white or black.

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the people complaining about racism making everything about race

on separate note

*please don't any redskins get involved int his please please please*

 

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3 hours ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Calling it a "White Man's Sport" is not going to help your cause... you're just separating yourself. Bruce Miller was a spotlight for a few days, but he's also a Fullback on a ****ty team where most of the conversation ends up on the only noteable player, Colin Kaepernick or Blaine Gabbert. Colin also has followers now, so it stayed in the spotlight... media goes with the hot story. Doesn't matter if he's white or black.

Kap didn't hurt anyone.  All he did was create discourse. 

Miller is a thug and a public menace.  Yet, crickets. 

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53 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

Miller is a thug and a public menace.  Yet, crickets. 

Surely you can't be so naive to not understand why this isn't getting much attention. 

Edited by Ray-Ban Dan

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One was released by his team for an assault- what's there to talk about?  He's in trouble and getting what he deserves.

the other didn't do anything criminal but many don't take kind to his actions.  They deem that as a disgrace and slap in the face to those who sacrifice themselves to protect his rights.  

The one is going through the justice process and the other is banking millions and protesting freely as he should.  Those that don't agree shouldn't be looked at as racists like it seems they are.

Not or hard to understand why one has gotten a lot of national attention and the other hasn't.

 

 

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You can also ask why there's not a lot of national attention over the extremely high increase in shootings and homicide rates with black on black in Chicago but that's not a focal point nationally either by certain movements.

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44 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

Surely you can't be so naive to not understand why this isn't getting much attention. 

It's a double-standard right in front of your face.  Maybe you should read and actually try to understand Jones' POV. 

19 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

You can also ask why there's not a lot of national attention over the extremely high increase in shootings and homicide rates with black on black in Chicago but that's not a focal point nationally either by certain movements.

Predictable false equivalency. 

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22 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

It's a double-standard right in front of your face.  Maybe you should read and actually try to understand Jones' POV. 

Predictable false equivalency. 

How?  BLM stands for what? And what is happening at a highly concerning rate?  Over 900 shootings this year and over 500 deaths?  Saw something where there's a shooting every 2 hours, so death every 4? And these are kids that are getting caught in the middle, young kids just playing in their front yard or sitting on their porch.  Where's the outrage and protest there?  Why aren't we doing more there?  What are the activists doing to improve this?

 

and no, it shouldn't only be activists working to improve this but the ones who make up the areas sure as hell aren't going to listen and abide by police or government orders and come together based off of that.

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56 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

56 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

It's a double-standard right in front of your face.  Maybe you should read and actually try to understand Jones' POV.

 

You said you wondered why there was not much attention about Miller's situation. It's not hard AT ALL to understand why that is, if you don't have an agenda. 

Its really simple: it's everything steve09ru wrote in the post below mine, plus the fact that no one even knows who the hell Miller IS! Kaepernick is well known. Miller is a FB, that no one knows even exists. Come on, man. At least try to be reasonable here.

Edited by Ray-Ban Dan

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12 hours ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

You said you wondered why there was not much attention about Miller's situation. It's not hard AT ALL to understand why that is, if you don't have an agenda. 

Its really simple: it's everything steve09ru wrote in the post below mine, plus the fact that no one even knows who the hell Miller IS! Kaepernick is well known. Miller is a FB, that no one knows even exists. Come on, man. At least try to be reasonable here.

I've been nothing but reasonable...maybe you should try being objective or at least attempt try to understand Jones' point. 

I'll even give you an assist:

Adam Jones on his comments regarding race in baseball

Edited by RonArtest15

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13 hours ago, RonArtest15 said:

It's a double-standard right in front of your face.  Maybe you should read and actually try to understand Jones' POV. 

Predictable false equivalency. 

No, this is EXACTLY the issue.  Right now, everyone is talking about who does what during the anthem.  Period.  Not what the 'issues' are.

If these guys actually cared about what was going on in the black community (or other minorities), then what is going on in Chicago (over 50 killed in one month) would be front and center.  They, and many of their supporters, seem to care much more about having the spot-light on them or criticizing the police, not trying to make people's lives better.

This is great:

 

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My husband and I have gone back and forth on this issue.  I am the immigrant, the one born in Wales.  He's the 21 year AF veteran (I'm also a British Army veteran) - before I became a US citizen, my remit during the US anthem was to stand respectfully (no need to place hand over heart), people kneeling during the anthem are doing so (my opinion), respectfully.   They are not shouting, goofing around, dancing - the two guys behind us last night's game with their arm raised (in the Black Panther salute) were doing so very respectfully - that was a powerful statement ...  Do you know I feel it equally disrespectful of the FedEx field crowd when they shout "O" during the anthem.  It's all about respect to your country and your flag!

And again ...  I was born and raised in Wales - at sporting functions our National Anthem is sung by the crowd (and always done with a passion) ...  And man, what a feeling that is - I'm not sure how I would feel if a Welsh player kneeled.  I really don't. 

 

Edited by Am-WelshSkin
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