Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[KLJ]

9 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

Baiscally you are trying to paint him as an idiot by any means possible to invalidate his argument that we don't have a race problem with police in this country.

that is a major leap.

[Springfield]

I wonder if we aren't far off from players protesting the Redskins.

 

...anyhow, Kaep isn't dumb.

[Major Harris]

2 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I wonder if we aren't far off from players protesting the Redskins.

 

...anyhow, Kaep isn't dumb.

I kinda would like to see that and watch the reaction here.

[RonArtest15]

5 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I wonder if we aren't far off from players protesting the Redskins.

 

...anyhow, Kaep isn't dumb.

Protesting the Skins name, or just taking a knee during the anthem?

[Major Harris]

Just now, RonArtest15 said:

Protesting the Skins name, or just taking a knee during the anthem?

The latter for the former. 

[Springfield]

2 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

Protesting the Skins name, or just taking a knee during the anthem?

Skins name.  Some sort of "disrespect" to the team during Redskins games as an F U to the name.

 

Just a thought I had in this whole mess.

[Elessar78]

Einstein never combed his hair and couldn't remember if he had lunch or not. Stephen Hawking can't walk, talk or feed himself. Stevie Wonder is blind. The president of the Workd Bank is dyslexic gets his numbers and letters mixed up all the time.

Its dangerous to try to ascertain bulb brightness by superficial things.

its funny that you say you're not trying to invalidate his cause by painting him as dumb when you double down on it by mentioning pig socks and Castro t-shirt. 

Your words: 

factors determining bulb brightness: hat, socks, t-shirt

if you don't disagree with his stance, then why are we discussing this at all? It's a strangely specific thread to discuss fashion choices.

[grego]

10 hours ago, KLJ said:

that is a major leap.

 

I think theres a tendency to do that when communicating via social media these days. you cant say a person is an idiot without it being assumed that theres a motive for saying so outside of a few examples of him making some really questionable choices. much like you cant criticize one or two specific aspects of a movement or cause without it being said that youre against the cause in general- as if your criticism is just a front for your underlying bigotry.

I think its perfectly reasonable to say that Kaep has shown a tendency toward questionable decisions while totally supporting his right to kneel. and, its reasonable to say there are otherwise intelligent people who may be blind to how some of their actions appear. (this has been said of Robert Griffin for years)

[Corcaigh]

Gay white woman takes a knee. Will she get the same vitriol?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/09/05/u-s-soccer-star-megan-rapinoe-joins-colin-kaepernick-in-kneeling-during-national-anthem/

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Kap had a 4.0 at Nevada and scored a 37 on his Wonderlic.

 

Had no idea...

 

He's immature but he's not stupid.  I could see him growing into an activist down the line when his football days are over.

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, Major Harris said:

kind of trolling here...but is the wonderlic now used to tell if someone is smart or not?  i thought we threw a few of those low scores out because they don't mean anything?'

 

I think you can throw out a lot of low scores because:

1.) The person might not have taken the test seriously.

2.) The person might have poor literacy but still have good native intelligence and be literate in other skills.  The test doesn't really work for detecting the intelligence of these people.

But if a person scores high, you know it means they're smart.  They obviously took the test seriously and it also proves they have good math and verbal literacy/skills and can use those to understand and solve problems.

I think when you see the really low wonderlic, they're mostly a result of the test taker being a lousy reader.  It's a shame that someone can get through at least three years of college with such **** verbal skills and lacking average math literacy, but that's division 1 college football for you.  And in the end, I think it's a good thing that these guys get at least a little exposure to three years of quality education on their pipeline track to the NFL.  Look at how dumb most MLB players are in contrast.

[Burgold]

25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's immature but he's not stupid.  I could see him growing into an activist down the line when his football days are over.

I think that's right. I think this event became bigger than he expected. Frankly, I don't think he thought it through and didn't really have a sharp reason for not standing. I think he's been listening and learning since the event that started this thread. Now, he is faced with an opportunity to become something and possibly do some good. What happens from here may be more important than why he originally sat.

 

I'm still not a fan of sitting through the National Anthem, though I don't mind the kneeling as much. The question is where does he go and most importantly where do we go from here because there are inequities and disparities that deserve to be addressed which have nothing whatsoever to do with action or inaction at a sporting event.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

8 hours ago, Elessar78 said:

Einstein never combed his hair and couldn't remember if he had lunch or not. Stephen Hawking can't walk, talk or feed himself. Stevie Wonder is blind. The president of the Workd Bank is dyslexic gets his numbers and letters mixed up all the time.

Its dangerous to try to ascertain bulb brightness by superficial things.

its funny that you say you're not trying to invalidate his cause by painting him as dumb when you double down on it by mentioning pig socks and Castro t-shirt. 

Your words: 

factors determining bulb brightness: hat, socks, t-shirt

if you don't disagree with his stance, then why are we discussing this at all? It's a strangely specific thread to discuss fashion choices.

I DO disagree with his stance. I mentioned that earlier in the thread. He has every right to protest in this manner, and I have the right to oppose it. I don't think the football field (his job) is the right place to express how you feel about social matters.

The socks and whatnot are just pointing out that maybe he isn't the right guy to head such a movement. The guy is obviously an idiot.

[Chew]

On 8/29/2016 at 3:36 PM, KingGibbs said:

 as many issues as this country has? It pales in comparison with most of the world.

@KingGibbs

I'd love to be a fly on the wall as you explain to Philando Castile's mother how the issue that Kap is not standing up for "pales in comparison" to other things going on in the world.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Chew

[RonArtest15]

1 hour ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

I DO disagree with his stance. I mentioned that earlier in the thread. He has every right to protest in this manner, and I have the right to oppose it. I don't think the football field (his job) is the right place to express how you feel about social matters.

The socks and whatnot are just pointing out that maybe he isn't the right guy to head such a movement. The guy is obviously an idiot.

It's your second paragraph that shows your bias, and to me invalidates any reasonable argument that you may have come up with. Your reasons to me are trivial and don't have much, if ANYTHING to do with why he's protesting. He's nothing more than an "idiot" to you. SMH. 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

4 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

It's your second paragraph that shows your bias, and to me invalidates any reasonable argument that you may have come up with. Your reasons to me are trivial and don't have much, if ANYTHING to do with why he's protesting. He's nothing more than an "idiot" to you. SMH. 

I also don't believe his explanation of why he's protesting. While I think there is some racial bias with cops and blacks, I think it's overstated. I think both sides have to take accountability. I thought I had discussed this earlier. If not, I don't care to go back into it. No one is changing anyone's opinion on this stuff. It's just endless bickering.

[The Evil Genius]

Not to muddle the waters (because I thought the pig socks was immature and the Castro shirt was a poor choice) - but people seem to have no problems with House of Pain's "Jump Around" still being played at a lot of sporting events. I've never heard any cop union or association protest that song being played. And some of us might remember a line from that song that goes, " I never eat a pig 'cause a pig is a cop." 
 

Is that the difference between clothing and a song? Or was Kaps clothing socks really only a problem with the cops because he is now under the spotlight? 

Edited September 6, 2016 by The Evil Genius

[RonArtest15]

Overstated racial bias with AA's & police....L-O-L. Have a good one. 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

28 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

Overstated racial bias with AA's & police....L-O-L. Have a good one. 

"Hands up, don't shoot"...Does that ring a bell? That's the narrative that the BLM still wants you to believe in all these cases. Never mind the fact that it's later learned that the cops were justified in shooting in many of these cases. That's what I was talking about earlier when I said their needs to be accountability from BOTH sides. Meaning, in some instances the police need to learn to not use lethal resort when it's not absolutely neccessary. And those being stopped need to learn to follow simple commands. We clear now?

Edited September 6, 2016 by Ray-Ban Dan

[Gamebreaker]

2 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

"Hands up, don't shoot"...Does that ring a bell? That's the narrative that BLM still wants you to believe in all these cases. Never mind the fact that it's later learned that the cops were justified in shooting in many of these cases. That's what I was talking about earlier when I said their needs to be accountability from BOTH sides. Meaning, in some instances the police need to learn to not use lethal resort when it's not absolutely neccessary. And those being stopped need to learn to follow simple commands. We clear now?

Hyperbole at it's finest. 

Please list these many cases where the shooting was justified. It seems you only know of Michael Brown. 

Let's also don't forget police brutality and murders haven't been just from shootings, Eric Garner didn't get a bullet but he did get that illegal chokehold. 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said:

Is that the difference between clothing and a song? Or was Kaps clothing socks really only a problem with the cops because he is now under the spotlight? 

Spotlight and error of recency

If the song was put out last week, and that line was highlighted all over twitter, then it would be an issue

But it came out a long time ago, during a time where it was not uncommon for rappers to include lines about cops etc, and just doesn't have the current following around it.

I'd be curious how many people, when hearing that song, thing of that line vs the hook...

[RonArtest15]

12 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

"Hands up, don't shoot"...Does that ring a bell? That's the narrative that the BLM still wants you to believe in all these cases. Never mind the fact that it's later learned that the cops were justified in shooting in many of these cases. That's what I was talking about earlier when I said their needs to be accountability from BOTH sides. Meaning, in some instances the police need to learn to not use lethal resort when it's not absolutely neccessary. And those being stopped need to learn to follow simple commands. We clear now?

You just don't get it. 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

25 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Hyperbole at it's finest. 

Please list these many cases where the shooting was justified. It seems you only know of Michael Brown. 

Let's also don't forget police brutality and murders haven't been just from shootings, Eric Garner didn't get a bullet but he did get that illegal chokehold. 

You just made my point for me. Yes, the chokehold was excessive, but Mr Garner also was being arrested, and was asked repeatedly to get on the ground, was he not? That goes back to the following instructions thing I was talking about. You guys (and the BLM) make it seem as if these cops seek out black males to murder. 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Ray-Ban Dan

[grego]

16 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

You just don't get it. 

 

I think its just a statement of this being not such a black and white issue, for lack of a better term. there is so much gray area when it comes to police shootings.

one problem is the brown shooting. its still often referenced as an example of unjustified excessive force. this just causes more distrust and discourages communication between the sides.

people form opinions very quickly and tend to not change them. we'll hear of a police shooting, form our opinion before getting all the facts, then find out the guy attacked the cop, or the cop was black, or Asian, or the perp pointed a gun at the police, etc.

there are 1,000 police shooting per year. we are practically fed a tiny fraction of those and asked to believe that they are representative of all police shootings.

I think both sides have been guilty of simplifying the issue, but its really not simple. listening more and speaking honestly about each case would help that, I think.

[Gamebreaker]

1 minute ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

You just made my point for me. Yes, the chokehold was excessive, but Mr Garner also was being arrested, and was asked repeatedly to get on the ground, was he not? That goes back to the following instructions thing I was talking about.

 

No, I didn't. The chokehold was unneccessary, and it killed him. He also was not resisting arrest. Moving around because you can't breathe due to the illegal chokehold that was immediately used is not resisting arrest. And considering plenty of Americans who are not people of color don't follow instructions and don't end up dead, that excuse is lame. 

Furthermore, Castillo followed instructions and ended up dead anyway. So stop being a bad cop apologist. Michael Slager didn't need to shoot Walter Scott multiple times in the back and manipulate the crime scene to support his lies. Brian Murphy didn't need to pull his gun out and point it at Obed Deleon while his fellow off-duty officers beat the hell out of him for saying they needed to stop blocking the parking lot of the restaurant. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-off-duty-chicago-police-beating-met-20160904-story.html Jason Van Dyke didn't need to shoot Laquan McDonald 16 times, most of which were after McDonald was already dead on the ground, and then lie about it. So cut the bull****, many of these police shootings have nothing to do with people of color not following instructions and a lot to do with a significant percentage of police officers not viewing them as human beings.