WaPo: Multiple injuries reported in ‘active shooter situation’ near Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs

[Zguy28]

Right.

 

I didn't mean the general discussion of policy. I have no problem with that.

 

But every 'new' political topic discussion has a period where there's genuine discussion. Where the bulk of the country is actually offering their opinion or otherwise contributing or at least listening. The more 'hot button' the issue, the quicker the pace of reasonable people dropping out of the discussion and the quicker we get to the usual back-and-forth bs.

 

We've gotten to a point where that period of genuine discussion/thought is about 30 minutes. That's what I was referring to. After 30 minutes there's very few people participating in the discussion without some hard agenda in some direction.

 

It's not an observation of ES, solely, but of our society in general. But it's definitely represented (not all the time, but sometimes) on ES in the threads (not an indictment of ES, i think it's just following the general trend...) If it was an "ES problem" i wouldn't even care, but it's a general news/media/interweb problem. ES probably does better than most places...

 

It's probably mostly caused by the ever-increasing frequency, but it itself is still depressing to me.  I wasn't trying to say it's "too early" to discuss it, at this point I don't think that exists. It's the way in which it's discussed (and how quickly it turns to that) that I was referencing.

I hear ya, but honestly, has history really shown us anything different? People have always taken up their sides on issues like the Allies and Germans in their trenches in WWI with "no man's land" in between. But in this case, most seem to be taking their side for the sake of taking their side with winning being the only end. Maybe that's always been the historical case as well, I don't know. But the level of control by groups like Planned Parenthood, NRA, etc. over the masses, even usually rational minds, to get them to suspend critical thought is amazing and depressing at the same time. It's a war on Christmas, no its a war on woman's health, no its a war on guns, and on and on and on. I'm out.

[twa]

It's been 11 years and we are still waiting for yours.

 

About what I'd expect

 

so you would prefer not to mention the reports the shooting started elsewhere?

[zoony]

About what I'd expect

so you would prefer not to mention the reports the shooting started elsewhere?

Given the veracity of your source, yes

[mistertim]

I think we are well overdue for a real, honest, and thorough discussion about gun rights, control, and where the balance ought to be between rights and safety. We have avoided this conversation for too long and we've gotten to a point now where mass shootings are run of the mill. People barely blink anymore. It used to be national news and shocking, but now it's "Stuff happens... yawn."

 

That's really outrageous. Perfect safety can never be obtained. Perfect screenings can never be obtained, but that doesn't mean that we can't make it more difficult for the crazy, evil, or criminal among us. In fact, it's the opposite. We should strive to do better. 

Completely agree. And it is so frustrating to know it won't happen. Actually won't be ALLOWED to happen. The gun lobby is just too powerful. I lost pretty much all hope of an honest gun discussion in this country when, after Sandy Hook, even the suggestion of a talk about the most minimal of gun control changes was shouted down by the NRA. People keep asking "what will it take?" before we are even allowed to have that discussion. I have no clue.

[twa]

Given the veracity of your source, yes

 

If I give other sources for the shooting starting away from PP will it change your mind?

 

What is the veracity of the baby parts mention that many seem to be accepting as fact?

 

at least my source is corroborated 

[zoony]

If I give other sources for the shooting starting away from PP will it change your mind?

 

From a reputable source, of course

[TheGreatBuzz]

I think we are well overdue for a real, honest, and thorough discussion about gun rights, control, and where the balance ought to be between rights and safety. We have avoided this conversation for too long

 

We had a thread about it here not that long ago.  Turned into a train wreck because 90% of the people didn't want to budge from their position.  And they came in with their minds already made up on what needed to happen.  Discussion is pointless unless both sides are willing to listen with an open mind.  But sit back and watch the majority of people "discuss" any issue either on here or on the news, etc and you see that there is no discussion on any topic.  Just a test of who can scream louder.   

 

So many people say society has a "gun issue".  I say society has a lot of issues a lot bigger than that.  It starts with "respect for others opinions" followed by "willingness to be wrong" and just continues downhill from there.

 

If anyone would like that have a discussion on how to fix those issues, I'm up for it.

[tshile]

I think we are well overdue for a real, honest, and thorough discussion about gun rights, control, and where the balance ought to be between rights and safety.

 

 

Completely agree. And it is so frustrating to know it won't happen. Actually won't be ALLOWED to happen.

Preface: I'm OK with expanding background checks and will entertain any idea to help lower the number of mass shootings.

 

We have, and continue to have, the discussion. It's just not going the way you guys want it to. You're acting like if you could just be allowed to voice your views on the matter something would actually change. The problem is you have been allowed to voice you views.

 

The problem is with the gun lobby and politicians being scared of the lobby's ability to drive votes. Whether you agree with the end result of not, there's been plenty of discussion. When the people stop voting against politicians that want to increase gun control, you'll get more increases in gun control.

 

And it's not just the lobby either, SCOTUS has been shooting down handgun bans and other attempts at increasing gun control as well.

But no one's stopping anyone from talking about it.

[Duckus]

Frustrated Gunman Can’t Believe How Far He Has To Drive To Find Nearest Planned Parenthood Clinic

 

AMARILLO, TX—Expressing frustration with the lack of convenient locations in his area, deranged gunman and anti-abortion fanatic Jared Broussard reported Monday that he could not believe how far he would have to drive to find the nearest Planned Parenthood clinic. “You have to be kidding me; I figured I’d need to go 10, maybe 15 miles, tops, but the closest one is almost 250 miles away,” said a visibly exasperated Broussard, adding that he would have to scrap his plans for the entire day and leave right now if he wanted to reach the health care provider before it closed this evening. “God, the nearest one isn’t even in this state. It’s actually faster for me to drive across the border to Santa Fe, and even then it’s still a four-hour trip. That barely leaves me enough time to buy ammo.” Broussard added that, given the length of the drive, he was thankful that he would likely not have to make a round trip.

 

http://www.theonion.com/article/frustrated-gunman-cant-believe-how-far-he-has-driv-51923

 

As always, the Onion hits it out of the park. Brutal. 

[mistertim]

 

 

Preface: I'm OK with expanding background checks and will entertain any idea to help lower the number of mass shootings.

 

We have, and continue to have, the discussion. It's just not going the way you guys want it to. You're acting like if you could just be allowed to voice your views on the matter something would actually change. The problem is you have been allowed to voice you views.

 

The problem is with the gun lobby and politicians being scared of the lobby's ability to drive votes. Whether you agree with the end result of not, there's been plenty of discussion. When the people stop voting against politicians that want to increase gun control, you'll get more increases in gun control.

 

And it's not just the lobby either, SCOTUS has been shooting down handgun bans and other attempts at increasing gun control as well.

But no one's stopping anyone from talking about it.

Sorry, should have been more specific. I didn't mean "we" as in us here on ES or in the general public, etc. I meant we're not allowed to have the discussion on a legislative level where things could actually be done. When anything is even floated about any sort of gun control measures it is shouted down by the gun lobby, no matter what.

[tshile]

Sorry, should have been more specific. I didn't mean "we" as in us here on ES or in the general public, etc. I meant we're not allowed to have the discussion on a legislative level where things could actually be done. When anything is even floated about any sort of gun control measures it is shouted down by the gun lobby, no matter what.

 

The gun lobby delivers votes.

 

You want the politicians to vote the way you want? Then you need people to support them when they do. You don't have that, you have people losing elections when they support gun control (or, at the very least, you have people worried they will lose elections.)

 

I hate the gun lobby as much as you do, but let's be honest - the problem isn't that you're not getting to have your discussion. The problem is you don't have the support required to get what you want.

 

You also have a problem with SCOTUS. Cities where they don't have an issue with voter support are having their measures struck down.

[@DCGoldPants]

Was it here that somebody suggested that minorities ages 18-49 should join the NRA in droves because we'll get new gun control laws quicker that way?

[The Evil Genius]

 

 

You also have a problem with SCOTUS. Cities where they don't have an issue with voter support are having their measures struck down.

 

 

↑ Except SF.

[Popeman38]

↑ Except SF.

 

Proposition H?

[Burgold]

I don't think "we've" been had an honest conversation about guns in this country maybe since Reagan. It's just sloganeering and shouting past each other mostly. You and I have had a real discussion. Others in the Tailgate have and sometimes we staunchly disagree or think they other a fool (or even call each other that), but as a culture... no.

 

I mean we have a shooter screaming about baby's body parts and can't even agree get many to agree that his target was Planned Parenthood. Too many are tip toeing around the possibility. If we can't even agree to the obvious, how can we get far enough in the discussion to talk about the gun aspects. 

 

The left is too wimpy and scared and the right is too stubborn and good at redirecting. (over-generalization, but pretty true)

[The Evil Genius]

Ha. Wait. That was a SF joke, right Pope?

 

I was commenting on how SF has made it near impossible for gun shops to operate in the city. And the courts have ruled in favor of the City.

[Popeman38]

Ha. Wait. That was a SF joke, right Pope?

 

I was commenting on how SF has made it near impossible for gun shops to operate in the city. And the courts have ruled in favor of the City.

Near impossible? The last one is closing. No one will be able to buy a gun inside SF soon. Congrats.

[thebluefood]

Wish i believed that "this time" things will change. But we've had movie theaters, schools, and churches shot up. There were people online cheering what this guy did in the name of saving babies. We have candidates either silent or blasting anybody suggesting this guy was a protestor gone too far, or that it's unrelated to the whole "baby parts" debunked video.

It'll happen again. And again. And again. 'merica

Hey, now. We are a free people! Free to get shot at any moment, anywhere.

I am so proud.

[tshile]

Burgold,

As with many issues, you have the extremes that are so ideologically driven you can never hope to have a conversation with them about those issues; they are not in any way, shape or form interested in hearing about 'the other side', much less considering revising their position.

 

And that's a problem with both sides of the 'aisle' and it's a huge problem with our society today.

 

You can add into that the ridiculous fear some have of ever admitting that maybe they were wrong.

 

But that's the extremes. The middle ground people are not getting their news from the NRA and are not letting the NRA swing their position. They're not getting their opinions from either extreme end.

 

That middle ground has had the discussion. Over and over and over. Or at least they've participated in it. And currently they're not willing to support the politicians to get anything passed.

 

The middle ground isn't actively participating much anymore because they're tired of the extremes. They're tired of being shouted at, and over. But that shouldn't be mistaken for not having an opinion, or never having the discussion, or not having an 'honest' discussion about it. They have. The support isn't there. Maybe one day it will be, but it's not going to come by you asking for an honest discussion. The discussions been had... It's a matter of supporting for the politicians campaigning on either side, and for the most part politicians in 'purple' areas are terrified of supporting gun control.

 

I'm growing tired of the demands for 'discussion' by people who are just upset they haven't gotten their way. It's as if you're unaware of the discussions this country has been having about gun control going back decades. "Honest discussion" has become code for: a discussion where my opinion is deemed the correct one.

[Duckus]

Frustrated Gunman Can’t Believe How Far He Has To Drive To Find Nearest Planned Parenthood Clinic

 

http://www.theonion.com/article/frustrated-gunman-cant-believe-how-far-he-has-driv-51923

 

 

And another....

 

NRA Visits Colorado Police Evidence Room To Check Up On Rifle Used In Planned Parenthood Shooting

 

 

http://www.theonion.com/article/nra-visits-colorado-police-evidence-room-check-rif-51924

[The Evil Genius]

Near impossible? The last one is closing. No one will be able to buy a gun inside SF soon. Congrats.

 

From my limited understanding, people can still buy guns in SF. They just have to be videotaped buying them. No one (shop or buyer) I guess wants to be videotaped. 

 

I don't have any skin in the game because I'm not in SF and I'm not a gun owner. 

[tshile]

From my limited understanding, people can still buy guns in SF. They just have to be videotaped buying them. No one (shop or buyer) I guess wants to be videotaped. 

 

I don't have any skin in the game because I'm not in SF and I'm not a gun owner. 

Hah, that sounds ridiculous.

 

You're video taped putting gas in your car... that causes people to not buy guns?

 

My question would be - how has this changed crime and gun ownership? Sounds like it's just about the purchasing of guns. If the net result is that all the gun shops moved outside of SF, but nothing else changes, then it's an empty 'win' for the gun control crowd...

[The Evil Genius]

Who knows. An article I read is that SF would be/is one of a dozen cities in California to implement the requirement. I guess there is concern over fraudulent identifications being used to make purchases at gun shops? Mind you, I don't see what the problem is (with the videotaping). I don't see it as anything different than a background check and/or fingerprinting requirement. 

[ExoDus84]

Who knows. An article I read is that SF would be/is one of a dozen cities in California to implement the requirement. I guess there is concern over fraudulent identifications being used to make purchases at gun shops? Mind you, I don't see what the problem is (with the videotaping). I don't see it as anything different than a background check and/or fingerprinting requirement. 

 

I don't see the issue with it. I'm a gun-owning Californian. People get videotaped everywhere. You can't go to a gas station, Best Buy, supermarket, etc., without being on CCTV. Who cares.

[Popeman38]

From my limited understanding, people can still buy guns in SF. They just have to be videotaped buying them. No one (shop or buyer) I guess wants to be videotaped. 

 

I don't have any skin in the game because I'm not in SF and I'm not a gun owner. 

You had to be videotaped buying the gun and all ammo purchases. Then the store had to turn over the videotapes to the police weekly. So the City of San Fran would have a photograph of every individual buying a gun, as well as a photo of every person making every ammo purchase. And the police would not need any legal notice to receive that info and in fact would require the merchant to provide the info weekly.

 

But it is massive govt intrusion into our lives to have a record of the calls you made. I'm just continually amazed at the ease with which freedom is stripped when it meets an agenda.

 

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/09/15/ordinance-to-require-san-francisco-gun-shops-to-videotape-sales-introduced-by-supervisor/