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The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

Burgold

By Burgold
in The Tailgate

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Popeman38

Popeman38

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You listed excuses companies with no vision or leadership offer for not expanding. I mentor with a couple different master-mind groups and they all teach the same things. "When things are good, then it's good. When things are bad then it's GREAT!" When everyone pulls back that's when you push forward. Acquire assets and grow. Everyone else waits for the market to improve before moving (buying high), successful visionary people take advantage of crappy markets (buying low). Why would you cut quality staff when you can use them to go in new directions? You've already invested in them as employees why train your competition's work force?

Oh for ****s sake. That doesn't apply to every company/business and you know it. Not every business has a market to expand. What you are describing are LARGE businesses that have their hands in more than one market. There is a hardware store in town here, Nichols Hardware. There is no market for them to expand. The market for hardware stores is basically limited to the large national or regional brands that can afford to lose money for a few years until their foothold takes in the new area. If Nichols Hardware tries to open a new store in Leesburg, BOTH locations would close within a year. There is a Lowes, Home Depot, and Tractor Supply in Leesburg. Same to the west, I. Winchester there is a Lowes, Home Depot, and Tractor Supply. So no, there is not every opportunity for that business to grow and expand. I don't give a **** what your master mind mentorship tells you. What you describe is a market with no cap where no business fails. It's utopia. It ain't reality. 

 

Sounds to to me like you left one dogmatic institution for another. 

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You listed excuses companies with no vision or leadership offer for not expanding. I mentor with a couple different master-mind groups and they all teach the same things. "When things are good, then it's good. When things are bad then it's GREAT!" When everyone pulls back that's when you push forward. Acquire assets and grow. Everyone else waits for the market to improve before moving (buying high), successful visionary people take advantage of crappy markets (buying low). Why would you cut quality staff when you can use them to go in new directions? You've already invested in them as employees why train your competition's work force?

 

I really think you are wrong here ASF, especially in the context of small businesses.  Quality of life matters and expansion takes work.

 

My dad started a small business.  It started with him working on our front porch nights and weekends.  Slowly over time he expanded.  He left the front porch and went into a small warehouse.  3 employees became 5, 5 7, and then he went into a larger space and over a few years he got to 15.  When he was at 15, he stopped.  He made a concise decision to stop recruiting more customers.  He could have expanded more, but he was making enough money.  He liked working on the "floor".  He could have hired some middle manager, but he didn't want to do that.  I guess in theory he could have expanded more and worked even more, but he didn't want to do that.  He had a family and a life away from his business.

 

And as he got older, he even intentionally contracted the business.  He sold part of his business (equipment, client list, etc.) to one of his clients.  Again, he made the decision he didn't need the money and other things were more important to him.

 

I've seen the same thing in research labs.  If you actually want to be part of the research, you have limit the number of people you have in a lab or you just end up being a manager of people.  Yeah, you could expand your lab (and probably get more grants and make more money in the process), but the more people you have the more disconnected you come from the actual doing of research.  If you actually like the doing of the research, then that's a negative.

 

(I also think you are just wrong here from a supply and demand point and basic economics.  For the same reasons everybody can't be an entrepreneur every business can't expand infinitely.  There isn't enough demand so there have to be some limits to expansions.  Generally, it might be better to expand into a downturn, but everybody can't always expand.)

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

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Posted
On 2/24/2017 at 9:02 AM, Popeman38 said:

Isn't that what industry has been doing for years? My company cuts people every year yet demands continue to climb. Do more with less has been the drumbeat for years. 

 

Management here. Y'all might be more productive if you spent less time posting on football message boards.

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AsburySkinsFan

AsburySkinsFan

Posted
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Oh for ****s sake. That doesn't apply to every company/business and you know it. Not every business has a market to expand. What you are describing are LARGE businesses that have their hands in more than one market. There is a hardware store in town here, Nichols Hardware. There is no market for them to expand. The market for hardware stores is basically limited to the large national or regional brands that can afford to lose money for a few years until their foothold takes in the new area. If Nichols Hardware tries to open a new store in Leesburg, BOTH locations would close within a year. There is a Lowes, Home Depot, and Tractor Supply in Leesburg. Same to the west, I. Winchester there is a Lowes, Home Depot, and Tractor Supply. So no, there is not every opportunity for that business to grow and expand. I don't give a **** what your master mind mentorship tells you. What you describe is a market with no cap where no business fails. It's utopia. It ain't reality. 

 

Sounds to to me like you left one dogmatic institution for another. 

You are thinking too narrowly, why does Nichols Hardware need to ONLY expand the hardware? Are you telling me that Mr. Nichols couldn't expand his business into other markets by acquiring other assets that maybe aren't in the same industry? You are looking through life through a keyhole.

BTW, my mastermind mentor groups are filled with millionaires who are all investors, and business owners. I'll take their advice every day of the week, because they have walked down the road and know the way.

35 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I really think you are wrong here ASF, especially in the context of small businesses.  Quality of life matters and expansion takes work.

 

My dad started a small business.  It started with him working on our front porch nights and weekends.  Slowly over time he expanded.  He left the front porch and went into a small warehouse.  3 employees became 5, 5 7, and then he went into a larger space and over a few years he got to 15.  When he was at 15, he stopped.  He made a concise decision to stop recruiting more customers.  He could have expanded more, but he was making enough money.  He liked working on the "floor".  He could have hired some middle manager, but he didn't want to do that.  I guess in theory he could have expanded more and worked even more, but he didn't want to do that.  He had a family and a life away from his business.

 

And as he got older, he even intentionally contracted the business.  He sold part of his business (equipment, client list, etc.) to one of his clients.  Again, he made the decision he didn't need the money and other things were more important to him.

 

I've seen the same thing in research labs.  If you actually want to be part of the research, you have limit the number of people you have in a lab or you just end up being a manager of people.  Yeah, you could expand your lab (and probably get more grants and make more money in the process), but the more people you have the more disconnected you come from the actual doing of research.  If you actually like the doing of the research, then that's a negative.

 

(I also think you are just wrong here from a supply and demand point and basic economics.  For the same reasons everybody can't be an entrepreneur every business can't expand infinitely.  There isn't enough demand so there have to be some limits to expansions.  Generally, it might be better to expand into a downturn, but everybody can't always expand.)

Each example you gave you yourself note that there was a choice made to stop growing.

As for the other part, you like Pope are thinking too narrowly, why is it that to expand a business you hear "make this company bigger"? 

 

 

As excellent as this discussion is, we are WAY off topic for this thread.

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Popeman38

Popeman38

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Posted

ASF, just because you bought into master minds doesn't mean everyone else has to. And just because others don't, doesn't make them wrong. If you think every business HAS to expand or diversify otherwise it is smallminded thinking, you're wrong. And that is the end of my participation in this conversation. 

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, visionary said:
 

 

 

Just wanted to highlight this story, here.  US citizen, carrying US passport, returning to the US from Jamaica, Detained and questioned about his religion, because he has "Muhammad" in his name.  

 

Nothing important, or anything.  

 

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You are thinking too narrowly, why does Nichols Hardware need to ONLY expand the hardware? Are you telling me that Mr. Nichols couldn't expand his business into other markets by acquiring other assets that maybe aren't in the same industry? You are looking through life through a keyhole.

BTW, my mastermind mentor groups are filled with millionaires who are all investors, and business owners. I'll take their advice every day of the week, because they have walked down the road and know the way.

Each example you gave you yourself note that there was a choice made to stop growing.

As for the other part, you like Pope are thinking too narrowly, why is it that to expand a business you hear "make this company bigger"? 

 

 

As excellent as this discussion is, we are WAY off topic for this thread.

 

To tie it back into the original conversation though, then companies cut employee when they automate (rather than expand) for various reasons.  Obviously companies only expand when they make to a choice to and therefore lack of expansion is a choice.

 

A company that automates and then cuts employees rather than expand has made a choice not to expand, and there are various reasons not to expand.  Automation may reduce the number of employees you need, but that same automation doesn't necessarily decrease the work load of management or expand the knowledge base/expertise of management.

 

(Though, I will say again, all companies can't expand infinitely.  Demand and supply limit possible expansion and as such all expansion can't be successful.  And if somebody is teaching you that all expansion will be successful, they are either wrong or lying to you just like people that only talked about home prices going up (i.e homes are (always) a great investment because their value only goes up, and there were a lot of people that made a lot of money flipping homes and doing things like selling and managing mortgages that essentially talked about (every) home purchase being a good investment.  

 

In may experience, expansion is hard work, especially expanding into a new area.  Expanding an expertise base is hard.  Gaining the expertise yourself is hard and time consuming and time spent doing that is a distraction from your core interest/business and anybody you can hire from somewhere else to gain the expertise is being let go for a reason (even if you are paying them more to hire them away.  You are essentially saying you have a better idea of how much that person is worth than their current employer.)).

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Just wanted to highlight this story, here.  US citizen, carrying US passport, returning to the US from Jamaica, Detained and questioned about his religion, because he has "Muhammad" in his name.  

 

Nothing important, or anything.  

 

 

It doesn't surprise me. In a number of encounters with CBP officers when I was not a citizen, the most favorable characterization I could offer of their behavior toward me and my family was "incompetent, unprofessional asshole".  I was routinely told things that I knew to be false, and the only purpose was to intimidate and make me feel unwelcome.

 

So I'm not surprised they decide to harass even citizens because of their name or skin color. Just because they can. Sitting in their leather armchair behind a protective glass screen.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Corcaigh said:

 

It doesn't surprise me. In a number of encounters with CBP officers when I was not a citizen, the most favorable characterization I could offer of their behavior toward me and my family was "incompetent, unprofessional asshole".  I was routinely told things that I knew to be false, and the only purpose was to intimidate and make me feel unwelcome.

 

So I'm not surprised they decide to harass even citizens because of their name or skin color. Just because they can. Sitting in their leather armchair behind a protective glass screen.

 

If you want to test a man's character, give him power. 

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