abdcskins Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 By the way, what did we trade for Derek Carrier? We traded a fifth rounder. We desperately needed a TE, so I can understand the trade. I'm guessing he'll start this Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 lol love this one. If Redskins were going to look for a TE they would have done so during preseason. Plus they are more worried about the secondary and if a move does come it would for a DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemocystem Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Yeah...Jimmy Graham ain't happening. Your best chance is for a team in a tailspin who is paying too much for a 27+ old TE. The baseball/hockey/NBA deadline deal is starting to make headway in the NFL. It will be a while before it becomes even remotely commonplace, but teams have already shown some willingness to make these deals. I mentioned Vernon Davis in another thread, Zach Ertz, maybe Travis Kelce (doubtful)....just to toss out some possibilities. Mind you, this should be after at least another 2-3 weeks when we can have a better idea of where we are, & where these other teams are. It will probably never happen, but while there's a discussion nobody has to be a part of, there are valid possibilities to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 While Graham would seriously upgrade this teams offense, especially its zed-zone offense, it's very unlikely the Skins could put together a decent enough trade package to make Seattle sit up and notice. ... The Skins can't assemble a tempting offer with ponying up some high level draft picks and that would hamstringing the rebuild going on for the Skins. And taking over Graham's salary for the next couple of years is going to mean the Skins wouldn't be able to sign some of the promising players they've developed successfully. Right now that pantry full of Skins draft choices represent one of the best avenues for McCloughan and Co. to pull the Skins franchise out of the hole it's been in for so long. But Scott still has to work with some of the former regimes' scouts -- so he's going to need a lot of high level picks to ensure he hits sufficiently well on the players he drafts. There are a lot of holes on this team that will need upgrading. Lastly, while Graham is a great player... He's getting older. Right now he's a high reward, medium risk player ... But soon his "reward" is going to start to decline, meanwhile the "risk" of him sustaining an injury that keeps him out a few games... is going to increase. ....Right along with his salary increasing. This team is still a ways off, to consider mortgaging its future for a quick-fix improvement in the present. Unless some awesome deal surfaces, I suspect McCloughan will ask Gruden to make do with what he's already got on the roster. It's sad for the fans,, but it's the most practical way forward. So, I've got to vote 'no' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANDWARF Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 We need the draft picks to fill in our holes at the DB and TE positions. However, if Graham is available for a 3rd or lower I would certainly bite. Wouldn't hurt to ask, but I would not go higher than a 4th. Yeah no trades for a TE Also, I think you're (and really everyone else) overreacting over the Jordan Reed thing. 5 concussions since college is not overreacting. Love him as a player, but don't think he'll be around 3 more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 How have you not noticed the gross lack of talent on this team, thanks to blowing 3 firsts and a high second round pick and then trading out of the highest picks we had, to move back? Know why it takes a few years to build a team? Because nothing is more valuable than high round draft picks. Know how you set a build back? By trading those picks for overhyped Vets, who come from a system they excel in. Would it be better to have Graham or the best C, S or ILB in the draft on this team? We have no competent proven TE on the roster and I doubt our offense with out Reed, yes, but as far as receivers, Garcon and Djax might be the best duo in the league and Ross and Jamison look legit. We have slot guys, which is all Graham is. If there was a page for threads that steal your intelligence, this would be between "use RG3 as a gadget player" and "gruden is the worst coach in the NFL". It's a shame you ruled out drunken rage, for an excuse. We need a TE way more then we need a C, S, or ILB, and you know that. We all know that. Ya'll need to stop trying to "learn me" and think about what I've been saying in this thead, agree or not. I'm smiling right now watching some ya'll go out of your way to deligitmize this guy as a player to help make your point out of fear of going back to the Vinny days. That's fine though, but with a place called Extremeskins, if I can't be extreme here, where can I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 We need a TE way more then we need a C, S, or ILB, and you know that. We all know that. Ya'll need to stop trying to "learn me" and think about what I've been saying in this thead, agree or not. I'm smiling right now watching some ya'll go out of your way to deligitmize this guy as a player to help make your point out of fear of going back to the Vinny days. That's fine though, but with a place called Extremeskins, if I can't be extreme here, where can I? I wouldn't trade a 1rst round pick for Jason Witten in his prime, unless we were a TE away from winning back to back superbowls. You're usually such a good poster too. This might even be worse than using Robert on gadget plays. We need Jamison to fill the receiving role Reed plays and we need a guy who can block at TE. We are stacked at receivers.Graham might be the best receiving TE in the league. Might also be the worst blocker. Not sure if you've been watching, but we want to pound the ball through other teams. Graham blows at helping do that. We need a C desperately and it wouldn't surprise me if that's our first round pick. If anything, since were in 3 WR sets so often, it wouldn't shock me to see an increased role for Young coming up, with Garcon, Djax and Jamison on the field. Reed may not even be out that long. I could maybe see this thread if he hit IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Teams without a star QB need to win with defense, running the ball and solid special teams. Trading for a TE does not fit this plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 I wouldn't trade a 1rst round pick for Jason Witten in his prime, unless we were a TE away from winning back to back superbowls. You're usually such a good poster too. This might even be worse than using Robert on gadget plays. We need Jamison to fill the receiving role Reed plays and we need a guy who can block at TE. We are stacked at receivers. Graham might be the best receiving TE in the league. Might also be the worst blocker. Not sure if you've been watching, but we want to pound the ball through other teams. Graham blows at helping do that. We need a C desperately and it wouldn't surprise me if that's our first round pick. If anything, since were in 3 WR sets so often, it wouldn't shock me to see an increased role for Young coming up, with Garcon, Djax and Jamison on the field. Reed may not even be out that long. I could maybe see this thread if he hit IR. I respect the hell out of you, too. Between DVR and radio, I've missed maybe five games total since Spurrier got here, so we don't agree on everything, but trust me, I hear where you're coming from. The widsom play is to expeiment with Young as a non-stretch TE (not sure why we weren't trying that when Reed was healthy) and draft a TE in the third round same as Graham, Cooley, or Witten were. I know that, I just don't want to admt it in larger part because I'm tired of losing (and I'm still waiting to see if we're actually going to do that). It's okay, I'm not going to post in here anymore as long as no one responds to me directly. These threads used to be fun, now its like everyone cut their hair and got jobs or something. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Honestly, what team has ever been "one TE away"? I doubt a TE is putting a team over the top...Gronk included. But anyways, why would SEA trade him when they just spent a lot on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 But anyways, why would SEA trade him when they just spent a lot on him? There is an argument that he isn't working out so maybe they'd cut bait on a failed acquisition. Of course, the two main issues (after ignoring the obvious idea that they aren't going to give up on him after 4 games)- after trading a 1st and a Pro Bowl OL for Graham and a 4th, even a 1st coming back seems like settling for a huge loss on the whole thing. And secondly, they are chasing a title this year and aren't going to be dealing players for picks mid-season. Still, it's a worse idea for us than Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I wouldn't trade a 1rst round pick for Jason Witten in his prime, unless we were a TE away from winning back to back superbowls. You wouldn't trade a first round draft pick for Jason Witten in his prime? Like when he was 23? I hate the Cowboys as much as anyone, but if I could get one of the best players at their position in their prime for a single first rounder then I'm doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 You wouldn't trade a first round draft pick for Jason Witten in his prime? Like when he was 23? I hate the Cowboys as much as anyone, but if I could get one of the best players at their position in their prime for a single first rounder then I'm doing it. I really dislike this particular type of hypothetical. Do I have a crystal ball to know what kind of career Witten is going to have? Can I use it on another players too? Witten was 23 in 2005, so assuming that means it would be a 2006 draft pick, can I instead use my crystal ball to know that I can get a decent enough alternative like Owen Daniels in the 4th, and then I can use my 1st on someone like Tamba Hali? Or trade down and load up on other picks for players I know will be great like Jahri Evans, Elvis Dumervil, Jason Hatcher and Andrew Wihtiworth? Or does my magic 8 ball only tell me how good Witten is going to be? Because if so, yeah I'll take a sure thing like him. But that seems like a silly and useless hypothetical question to answer. I'm not sure what value that's supposed to add to a conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Honestly, what team has ever been "one TE away"? I doubt a TE is putting a team over the top...Gronk included. But anyways, why would SEA trade him when they just spent a lot on him? The only team that can make that argument, maybe, is the Patriots. Gronk transcends defenses, and Brady is just the QB to maximize his production. But outside of the Pats, no SB winning team since at least 2009 has had a 1,000 yard tight end. They simply aren't all that integral to many offenses. They can be, but often aren't. They're just one piece of the puzzle. I really dislike this particular type of hypothetical. Do I have a crystal ball to know what kind of career Witten is going to have? Can I use it on another players too? I think it's mainly a device to demonstrate the general lack of value of the position, not really to serve as a hypothetical. TEs aren't valuable enough to trade for no matter how good they are . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I think it's mainly a device to demonstrate the general lack of value of the position, not really to serve as a hypothetical. TEs aren't valuable enough to trade for no matter how good they are . Yeah, I'm just saying the whole "would you have traded for so and so years ago" question is really unanswerable and so shouldn't be a part of a conversation. Just imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Yeah, I'm just saying the whole "would you have traded for so and so years ago" question is really unanswerable and so shouldn't be a part of a conversation. Just imo.that wasn't really supposed to be taken literally. It was just to show, that it would be a bad idea, for a better player even if we were in a better situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I really dislike this particular type of hypothetical. Do I have a crystal ball to know what kind of career Witten is going to have? Can I use it on another players too? Witten was 23 in 2005, so assuming that means it would be a 2006 draft pick, can I instead use my crystal ball to know that I can get a decent enough alternative like Owen Daniels in the 4th, and then I can use my 1st on someone like Tamba Hali? Or trade down and load up on other picks for players I know will be great like Jahri Evans, Elvis Dumervil, Jason Hatcher and Andrew Wihtiworth? Or does my magic 8 ball only tell me how good Witten is going to be? Because if so, yeah I'll take a sure thing like him. But that seems like a silly and useless hypothetical question to answer. I'm not sure what value that's supposed to add to a conversation. Not much to comprehend. I'm just saying if we had a chance to snag Jason Witten early in his career for a first round pick I would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 that wasn't really supposed to be taken literally. It was just to show, that it would be a bad idea, for a better player even if we were in a better situation. I wasn't really referring to your post, but the way the response to it seemed to be framed with the benefit of hindsight. It's a road I've seen discussions go down here before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not much to comprehend. I'm just saying if we had a chance to snag Jason Witten early in his career for a first round pick I would do it. With or without knowing that in the future he will be a great TE? Would you have traded a first round pick for Kellen Winslow Jr. early in his career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I wasn't really referring to your post, but the way the response to it seemed to be framed with the benefit of hindsight. It's a road I've seen discussions go down here before.not by me, those conversations are annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Absolutely not. Not only would he cost a lot to get, but hes failed to make almost any impact on both the Seahawks or Saints the last two years. Thats TWO teams not throwing him the ball, and though you can make a case for him being underutilized, its scary to see a guy on the downside of his career who was SO good, and now has multiple Pro-Bowl QBs not wanting to throw it his way. And we would be paying the Pro-Bowl Graham price, not the Downside of His Career Graham price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 With or without knowing that in the future he will be a great TE? Would you have traded a first round pick for Kellen Winslow Jr. early in his career? With knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I don't think TEs are worth first round picks. Like RBs, the difference between your average TE and a top 10 TE in terms of the value they bring to your team is not a whole lot. Like RB, there are once in a generation talents that would be worth 1st rounders if you didn't need hindsight to identify them and could grab them on their rookie contract while they're young. But I think given Graham's age and contract, it's way too much. I'd rather see what these other guys on our roster can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesuve Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I want to pre-face this with the fact I'm am pissed off right now because he's on my fantasy team and I lost by three points because Seattle forget he's the best skill position player they have. I watched that game tonight, and I swear its like the plays are drawn up with them telling Russell "Okay, if any TE is open, go ahead and throw it to him if you want to". And then he runs for three yards when Graham is open 20 yards ahead of him throwing his hands up in pure frustration. You can see it, he's not even first read on most of their passing plays, and they are not even designing plays just to get the ball in his hands. Seattle in the end had to surrender a first round pick to get this guy out there. I would not be against doing the same in a straight up trade, because reality is I feel that first pick will be on a TE anyway (and should be). You can call me crazy if you want, but I whole-heartedly believe this is worthy of discussion considering the reality we are facing now at the TE position and that Seattle is playing like they do not need this guy on their football team at all. Would Graham be good for the Skins? It depends on how he's used. Seattle uses Graham differently than N.O did. The Seahawks are using him more as a blocker, and he's more of a wide receiver tight end than a blocking tight end. Seattle made trades for WRs and has neglected their O-line. Seattle WILL pay the price for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 With knowing. So, again, a completely worthless hypothetical to use in a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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