The Gun Control Debate Thread

[CobraCommander]

There was a shooting at a hospital in Tulsa. Next logical step is to have all the nurses open carry. JFC where does it end?

 

 I wouldn’t send my kids to a school where teachers were allowed to have guns. You think I trust all teachers? You think there aren’t some that would use a gun incorrectly, or for the wrong reasons?

 

Fighting fire with fire is not the answer. Removing the fire from the equation is the only way forward. 

[youngestson]

9 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

I suspect you'd also see a large exodus of teachers. Maybe that's the GOP plan though. 

I doubt that's the TOP's plan as much as a happy (for them) side effect. Arming teachers is the rough equivalent of limiting doors, banning computer games, mentioning mental health, etc. It's just endless blabbering to see if something sticks and to divert attention.

 

I've taught for almost 30 years and have more than an average familiarity with firearms and the LAST thing I want to do is have more lead flying around schools. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

If we need more teachers, we can just invent them the way gun fetishers invent “best friends wives who’s a teacher that can’t wait to carry at school”.  The power of imagination is all we need y’all!

[CousinsCowgirl84]

We already have a problem with kids finding guns and shooting themselves or another kid by accident. Introducing a gun to a place where there are a lot of kids will probably exacerbate the problem.

[Dan T.]

9 hours ago, Larry said:

. . .

But then, it's not like the people pushing this give a **** how many kids get shot.  They care about pushing an agenda.  And frankly, kids getting shot is actually a part of said agenda.  

 

Selling more guns is a big part of the agenda. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Dan T.

[Llevron]

11 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

We already have a problem with kids finding guns and shooting themselves or another kid by accident. Introducing a gun to a place where there are a lot of kids will probably exacerbate the problem.

It will only be a matter of time before a teacher is ‘defending’ themselves from a student and shoots and kills them. Then what? 
 

Nothing about arming teachers is a good idea 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Pouring guns and ammo into schools and arming every teacher, administrator and custodian to the teeth is actually a great idea…IF you’re a member of a right-wing death cult that has a publicly stated political goal of annihilating socialist public education because it’s filled with gays and groomers.

 

Its pretty straightforward at this point.

Edited June 2, 2022 by TradeTheBeal!

[Larry]

27 minutes ago, Llevron said:

It will only be a matter of time before a teacher is ‘defending’ themselves from a student and shoots and kills them. Then what?

"Arm the students."

[GoCommiesGo]

I've said it in this thread before, arming teachers is absolutely terrible idea on so many levels. The least of which is it's just a stupid idea and doesn't actually go to the root issue of the problem.

 

But also; 

 

You would have to extend qualified immunity to the teachers just like police in any incident where they felt they needed to pull the gun. 

 

How is a cash strapped education system going to pay for the training of the teachers? Is the teacher responsible to provide their own weapon, or is the county now adding an additional expense? 

 

What type of pay increase will you provide to the teachers since you've effectively made them SROs?

 

How do you store the firearm so a student doesn't just take it, but still have it easily accessible?

 

Arming teaches is the such a dumb idea, only in America would this be considered a solution by some. ****ing idiots. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

11 hours ago, Larry said:

 

I look at the national numbers of kids finding guns, using guns, accidental shootings, suicides, mistaken identities, . . . . 

Versus the odds that Teacher X will ever be in a room with a school shooter?  

 

I think it's guaranteed that, for every #2, you'll have 100 #1's.  Maybe 1,000:1.  

 

But then, it's not like the people pushing this give a **** how many kids get shot.  They care about pushing an agenda.  And frankly, kids getting shot is actually a part of said agenda.  

 

I didn't have time for a detailed response last night.  Personally, overall I think it's a bad idea and I hope in my state (NC) that they do not pass any laws like that.  I think that in order for that to work it would take too much to make it worthwhile (e.g. they have secure lockboxes in secure locations kids don't have access to.  But by the time they are able to access the gun, it's too late. etc.).  

 

I am 100% for arming the SROs with assault rifles or them having access to one, so the playing field is even when these events happen.  That is probably the best option to move forward with and I'm really shocked this hasn't happened yet, at least where I live.  

 

With that said, when I said I'm ok with teachers that want to carry at school if it's legal where they live, was more thinking if it's made legal, then who am I to tell someone they can't carry and protect themselves if done legally.  Doesn't mean I agree with the choice, but it's not my choice to make.  

 

 

[The Evil Genius]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

It will only be a matter of time before a teacher is ‘defending’ themselves from a student and shoots and kills them. Then what? 
 

 

Depends on the skin color of the teacher. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by The Evil Genius

[Dan T.]

The Good Liars at the NRA Convention in Houston:

 

 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

2 hours ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

If we need more teachers, we can just invent them the way gun fetishers invent “best friends wives who’s a teacher that can’t wait to carry at school”.  The power of imagination is all we need y’all!

 

First, I don't have a gun fetish.  I've purchased 5 guns throughout my life, hardly consider that having a gun fetish.  And all of them are secured in a gun safe, have been for years.  I also think people that open carry look ridiculous and only do so looking for attention or to intimidate others, regardless if it's legal where they live.   

 

Second, my best friend isn't imaginary, known him for almost 30 years, and he does live in Ohio and his wife was open to teachers having guns when this was brought up in the past (his words to me). You can also read my response to Larry, I'm personally not for it, but also recognize that where it is made legal, it's not my choice to make or to tell others what to do.  

 

I also stated that she may or may not choose to do so.  Honestly, I don't think she would go out and buy a gun to take to school with her.  Her being fine with other teachers and her doing it herself are two different things.  

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Dan T.]

Five guns.  That seems like a lot.

[TradeTheBeal!]

“im personally against it but I’m also keeping track of how all my best friends spouses feel about it and reporting that to the forum” makes total sense to me.  Not at all someone thats completely disingenuous and soft-selling an unpopular point of view by prescribing to someone outside the conversation in an anecdotal manner.

 

Instead, it’s the fact that Taze is an enigma wrapped inside a riddle and nothing in my 52 years has prepared me to decipher such a complex method of debate.

 

Yeah, that must be it.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

33 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Five guns.  That seems like a lot.

 

Over an almost 25 year period?  Not hardly.  

Edited June 2, 2022 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, GoCommiesGo said:

I've said it in this thread before, arming teachers is absolutely terrible idea on so many levels. The least of which is it's just a stupid idea and doesn't actually go to the root issue of the problem.

 

But also; 

 

You would have to extend qualified immunity to the teachers just like police in any incident where they felt they needed to pull the gun. 

 

How is a cash strapped education system going to pay for the training of the teachers? Is the teacher responsible to provide their own weapon, or is the county now adding an additional expense? 

 

What type of pay increase will you provide to the teachers since you've effectively made them SROs?

 

How do you store the firearm so a student doesn't just take it, but still have it easily accessible?

 

Arming teaches is the such a dumb idea, only in America would this be considered a solution by some. ****ing idiots. 

 

Yeah the arming teachers thing is just so so dumb. There's basically no good that can come of it.

 

I wonder what the breakdown is between the right wingers who know it's stupid but don't care because that's the current talking point to use so they can keep their guns and the right wingers who actually believe that giving guns to completely untrained teachers is somehow going to stop mass shootings. They're ****ing teachers, not SEALs.

 

Chance of the gun being stolen by students: High

Chance of a teacher accidentally shooting students in the event of an active shooter situation: High

Chance of a teacher with no intensive, consistent live fire training being able to overcome adrenaline, fight or flight, panic, and tunnel vision during an active shooter situation and taking out the shooter without any collateral damage: Slim to none

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 minute ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

“im personally against it but I’m also keeping track of how all my best friends spouses feel about it and reporting that to the forum” makes total sense to me.  Not at all someone thats completely disingenuous and soft-selling an unpopular point of view by prescribing to someone outside the conversation in an anecdotal manner.

 

Instead, it’s the fact that Taze is an enigma wrapped inside a riddle and nothing in my 52 years has prepared me to decipher such a complex method of debate.

 

Yeah, that must be it.

 

I'm not keeping track of her thoughts lol.  Jesus man, he brought it up in conversation a while back, I told him I thought it was a bad idea overall (teachers in general carrying at schools), he said she was on board with it. 

 

I was responding to the post where Ohio made it legal, he lives there, so I posted what he said to me about the topic.  You can believe me or not, I could give a ****.  

[GoCommiesGo]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah the arming teachers thing is just so so dumb. There's basically no good that can come of it.

 

I wonder what the breakdown is between the right wingers who know it's stupid but don't care because that's the current talking point to use so they can keep their guns and the right wingers who actually believe that giving guns to completely untrained teachers is somehow going to stop mass shootings. They're ****ing teachers, not SEALs.

 

I think most people know it's a terrible idea, but you get a loud enough minority and it drowns the majority out. 

Quote

Chance of the gun being stolen by students: High

Chance of a teacher accidentally shooting students in the event of an active shooter situation: High

Chance of a teacher with no intensive, consistent live fire training being able to overcome adrenaline, fight or flight, panic, and tunnel vision during an active shooter situation and taking out the shooter without any collateral damage: Slim to none

 

All of this, and more. Though the odds a school shooting are low, the moment a teacher tries to defend the students and shoots a kid by accident, is high. Now that teacher is going to have to live with that, and likely be prosecuted because, unlike cops they don't have qualified immunity.

 

I hate this idea so very much. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

23 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Five guns.  That seems like a lot.

 

Not really.  I don't know specifically what he has but you could easily have 5 different guns that serve 5 different purposes.  

[The Evil Genius]

3 minutes ago, GoCommiesGo said:

 

I think most people know it's a terrible idea, but you get a loud enough minority and it drowns the majority out. 

 

More like if you have the gun lobby pay off one party who controls some states, you end up with legislation that no one really wants but is well paid for. 

[GoCommiesGo]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

More like if you have the gun lobby pay off one party who controls some states, you end up with legislation that no one really wants but is well paid for. 

Minority drowns out the majority. Doesn't have to be by yelling, money works better in most cases. 

 

P.S. 

I hate that land votes. 

[Corcaigh]

38 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Five guns.  That seems like a lot.

Slow down. Next you’ll be saying someone who owns five dildos has some kind of fetish. 

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, GoCommiesGo said:

 

I think most people know it's a terrible idea, but you get a loud enough minority and it drowns the majority out. 

 

All of this, and more. Though the odds a school shooting are low, the moment a teacher tries to defend the students and shoots a kid by accident, is high. Now that teacher is going to have to live with that, and likely be prosecuted because, unlike cops they don't have qualified immunity.

 

I hate this idea so very much. 

 

Yeah good point. That's a whole new can of worms that arming teachers will open: culpability.

 

If a student steals the gun and shoots another student, is the teacher responsible? In an active shooter situation would the teacher be responsible for collateral damage from discharging their weapon?

 

How much would the fact that they don't have training like military or LE play into how that's decided? Would they get qualified immunity if they get enough training? How much training is enough? Who's going to pay for the training? When are they going to be able to do the training?

 

The whole idea is just complete ****ing clown shoes.

[Corcaigh]

And what are we arming the teaches with? Given that the perpetrators are wearing body armor and have high powered rifles, should the teacher have an AR-15 over her desk? How much ammo is enough for a first grade classroom to be adequately stocked? The rifle would look great next to those colorful educational posters to help the first graders learn.