Trade for Russell Wilson?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

So you are denying the skill set that Wilson has?  I gave you a good inventory of skills that I believe would be portable to any system.  Which one of those skills would not be useful in any other system? 

The hogwash about Gruden is tiring.  RG III apologists have been quick to lambast the Redskins (and rightly so) for the crap O-line we've rolled out year after year.  Yet the Coach whom they stuck with that line (and a line coach that was not even his hire) is supposed to be held 100% responsible for the bad play?  Not to mention the pitiful defense he inherited that gave up a lead early and often. 

 

The Redskins have a new GM who has already improved the O-line.  Long (already had him tho) and Scherff are already better than Chester and Polumbus/Compton.  The GM will build a team around the QB, whomever that is so the system argument doesn't hold water.  If Jay failed to produce then he'd be fired.  Simple as that.  So the coach shouldn't factor into the decision. 

 

The salary argument is also a moot point.  If Robert produces this year the team is going to have pay him as well right?  So which player would you desire most to make a long term investment in?

 

Now, having said all that.  Name the aspects of Robert's game that are better than Russell Wilson's please - today.  Not what you hope either QB will be able to do in the future.  What they have shown that they can do today. 

 

Negotiating a long term deal with RGIII, assuming he plays well enough to warrant giving him one, would most likely be a lot lower than what it would cost to sign RW to a long term deal, given what he wants.  

 

If you are talking a straight up trade for the two based on current contracts (both players are in their 4th year of their rookie contracts) then sure, why not?  But I find it highly amusing that everyone is insulting the front office of Seattle by even suggesting they would be willing to make that trade, even for our two QBs.

 

Edit:  no clue where my brain was at about the 5th year option, removed, thanks for catching that fellas.  I had read an article that talked about Wilson and I mis-read it, it was saying that his 2015 salary is 1.5 million and I thought it said 2016. My bad.

[Paul Cumberland]

They can exercise the 5th year option next year if they don't get a deal worked out.

 

5th yr options are only available to 1st rd picks..  Russell was a 3rd rd pick.  That being said, Russell will probably be franchised if no long term deal is worked out.  Can't see him hitting free agency..

[Laron Burgundy]

Negotiating a long term deal with RGIII, assuming he plays well enough to warrant giving him one, would most likely be a lot lower than what it would cost to sign RW to a long term deal, given what he wants.

If you are talking a straight up trade for the two based on current contracts (both players are in their 4th year of their rookie contracts) then sure, why not? But I find it highly amusing that everyone is insulting the front office of Seattle by even suggesting they would be willing to make that trade, even for two QBs.

They can exercise the 5th year option next year if they don't get a deal worked out. Wilson would make only around $1.5 million while RGIII would get $16 million. Do you really think they would trade Wilson straight up? LOL

And if they pay him top QB money like those absurd contracts that Cam and Tannehill got, would you want to take on that contract and break the bank for a player that is not a top 5 QB in the league? Cause he's not.

Thought the 5th year option only applied to 1st rounders.

[Laron Burgundy]

So you are denying the skill set that Wilson has? I gave you a good inventory of skills that I believe would be portable to any system. Which one of those skills would not be useful in any other system?

The hogwash about Gruden is tiring. RG III apologists have been quick to lambast the Redskins (and rightly so) for the crap O-line we've rolled out year after year. Yet the Coach whom they stuck with that line (and a line coach that was not even his hire) is supposed to be held 100% responsible for the bad play? Not to mention the pitiful defense he inherited that gave up a lead early and often.

Gruden isn't being judged on our defense when people say he's part of our offensive problem. And he calls the shots, so yes, the o line coach, and Haslett for that matter was, in effect, his hire as he made the call to keep them.

I think Wilson is a tremendous player, but he would probably struggle in such a pass-heavy offense too, let alone dealing with the surrounding talent. That's not to say he'd be as bad, but I don't think he's the same qb if he doesn't have as much play action to work off of.

If the trade was just for players you'd have to take the deal, but if you had to pay him before seeing him in our system I think that would be a crazy deal to make.

[ThomasRoane]

Gruden isn't being judged on our defense when people say he's part of our offensive problem. And he calls the shots, so yes, the o line coach, and Haslett for that matter was, in effect, his hire as he made the call to keep them.

 

 

I remember he agreed to let Foerster and Haz (along with his staff) stay on.  But I don't remember him saying they were his choice. Those guys were still under contract for a year.  So I figured it was Danny wanting to make sure that he wasn't paying a years salary for nothing.  Wouldn't be the first time he's pulled that one.  Regardless, I think we all agree that Gruden has this year and maybe the next to show something. I'm willing to wait and see how the season goes for the coaches.  As for QB?  I hope for the best but I'm setting myself up for the worst.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I'll just say, if Russel Wilson is traded, hits FA or for any other reason, is not the QB for the Seahawks for the next 3 years minimum...I will eat something incredibly gross.

And I'll put a poll in the tailgate so you all can select and vote on what it will be.

I guess it's fun to speculate like when you dream about what you would do if you won the lottery but there is 0 chance Wilson gets out of Seattle

[Hail4Life]

I'll just say, if Russel Wilson is traded, hits FA or for any other reason, is not the QB for the Seahawks for the next 3 years minimum...I will eat something incredibly gross.

And I'll put a poll in the tailgate so you all can select and vote on what it will be.

I guess it's fun to speculate like when you dream about what you would do if you won the lottery but there is 0 chance Wilson gets out of Seattle

 

Obviously never going to happen but...this thread is still way better than most of the Redskins articles on CSN Washington.  I mean, today I read an article talking about how RG3's name was mentioned in a movie...wow!  Riveting!  And the other day an article about what RG3 likes on his hamburgers...pfft.  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

5th yr options are only available to 1st rd picks..  Russell was a 3rd rd pick.  That being said, Russell will probably be franchised if no long term deal is worked out.  Can't see him hitting free agency..

 

 

Thought the 5th year option only applied to 1st rounders.

 

 

It does.  My brain was wandering between reading/posting and work blowing up at the same time lol.  I had mis-read an article that said his 2015 salary would be $1.5 million, thought it said 2016 and my mind went to la-la land.  

 

I updated my post, thanks for slapping me and waking me up

[Gamebreaker]

So you are denying the skill set that Wilson has?  I gave you a good inventory of skills that I believe would be portable to any system.  Which one of those skills would not be useful in any other system? 

 

What about my post even mentioned his skillset? My post was directly addressing you claiming he wasn't a system QB, while not at all mentioning the system you claim he isn't tethered to. You have exaggerated some of his skills, and maybe that is why you think a QB who couldn't throw more than 200 yards six times last season can play in any system. He should thank God he was fortunate enough to be drafted by a team that was primed for success. 

 

 

The hogwash about Gruden is tiring.  RG III apologists have been quick to lambast the Redskins (and rightly so) for the crap O-line we've rolled out year after year.  Yet the Coach whom they stuck with that line (and a line coach that was not even his hire) is supposed to be held 100% responsible for the bad play?  Not to mention the pitiful defense he inherited that gave up a lead early and often.

 

I'm sorry you are tired of people telling you the truth, maybe you should reconsider your position. Furthermore, I am no Griffin apologist. Due to them extending his contract, I'd like to see him yanked if he doesn't show drastic improvement in the first quarter of this season. But my point wasn't to blame shift, but to simply state Russell has had a far superior playcalling at the helm. And here are the reasons why:

 

-Bevell showed the remarkable ability to completely change his approach to the offense once he realized Wilson could not be a traditional dropback passer within the first 5 games of his rookie season. He then incorporated what Kyle Shanahan was doing with RG3 in 2012, and had nearly as much success. 

- Bevell hasn't tried to make Russell something he isn't, he is using his skillset by calling plays that allows him to move out of the pocket and remain comfortable, he is avoiding plays that Russell has yet to master. Griffin, under Gruden, has been asked to do it Gruden's way. 

- Outside of that SB goalline play, Bevell has proven to be a far superior playcaller than both Kyle and Gruden. 

 

 The GM will build a team around the QB, whomever that is so the system argument doesn't hold water.  If Jay failed to produce then he'd be fired.  Simple as that.  So the coach shouldn't factor into the decision.

 

This is simply ludicrous. GMSM is building the offensive line around Gruden's system, which we know Griffin doesn't excel in, and everyone but you knows Russell wouldn't excel in. You have yet to prove how Russell is this transcendent talent that could excel no matter what system he's in. Look at what Gruden asks his QBs to do, Russell doesn't sit in the pocket and quickly go through progressions to hit the best option very often in Seattle. That is what we do here. And why are you even mentioning Gruden being fired? With his contract, he was guaranteed at least two seasons...even if he went 0-16. No way is Snyder paying him for three years to not coach this team. 

 

Now, having said all that.  Name the aspects of Robert's game that are better than Russell Wilson's please - today.  Not what you hope either QB will be able to do in the future.  What they have shown that they can do today.

 

This was never the point of my post, so I won't help you build your strawman argument. It doesn't matter which QB is better than the other, when they're both system QBs who can't play in Gruden's system. In this ridiculous hypothetical situation, we would not be better off trading RG3 for Russell because we'd be largely getting the same result....except due to previous success, Wilson get a lot more rope to hang himself with. 

[Drastik]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here on this board but Russell Wilson really isn't much of an upgrade over RG3 unless we are getting that defense, special teams, and Marshawn Lynch as well.

 

Russell Wilson only has to score 17 points a game and hand the ball off to Beast Mode to win games. He doesn't have to worry about leading the team or throwing the ball 30 times a game. RG3 is usually down by 14 by the start of the 2nd quarter so opposing pass rushers are licking their chops. And we all know one of RG3's biggest flaws is that he holds the ball for an eternity, well folks so does Russell Wilson... his team is just so much better.

 

I'm not making an excuse for RG3 here, but Russell Wilson definitely would not be any cure to our problems... now if this poll said Andrew Luck or even Tannehill than perhaps we have a discussion. 

 

Just my opinion though.

[Darrel2828]

First of all this is a stupid thread. Sorry not trying to be dick. Just saying the Hawks would never make this trade. Therefore making this thread pointless.

Yet I will still jump in and comment.

I for one haven't given up on RG3 yet. To young and i believe he gets one more year to prove he can grow into the starter of this team.

With that being said if he fails and Russel doesn't resign. If i were the Skins i would throw as much money needed to get this guy.

Proven winner and clutch when it counts the most.

Yes he threw a pick to end the SB, but hes been there twice.

I know the Hawks are a all around good team,but if you don't think Russel is a good QB, your crazy.

So if the Hawks are the dumb. So be it pay him and make him our QB.

[Darrel2828]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here on this board but Russell Wilson really isn't much of an upgrade over RG3 unless we are getting that defense, special teams, and Marshawn Lynch as well.

Russell Wilson only has to score 17 points a game and hand the ball off to Beast Mode to win games. He doesn't have to worry about leading the team or throwing the ball 30 times a game. RG3 is usually down by 14 by the start of the 2nd quarter so opposing pass rushers are licking their chops. And we all know one of RG3's biggest flaws is that he holds the ball for an eternity, well folks so does Russell Wilson... his team is just so much better.

I'm not making an excuse for RG3 here, but Russell Wilson definitely would not be any cure to our problems... now if this poll said Andrew Luck or even Tannehill than perhaps we have a discussion.

Just my opinion though.

Russel Wilson also hasn't had anyone to throw the ball to.

He doesn't have a Jackson or even Garcon for that matter.

And he stays on the field.

So he's a huge upgrade at this point.

I'm still a RG3 guy,but he doesn't have anything on Russel at this point.

[mcsluggo]

the biggest thing that RW does better than RGIII.... is not get hurt.   And that is huge, actually.  It has allowed him to make much more progress towards his potential, and it allows him to grow in confidence... whereas RGIII has regressed  in confidence certainly, and hasn't made the progress towards his potential (a pro style skillset) that we wished for at this point.    

 

People in this thread have talked about RW decision making in the red zone, and in crunch time.... people forget that RGIII HAD that, and in spades.  He was a confident, arrogant MF-er, and he backed it up on the field.  THen he got hurt, doesn't/didn't trust his body which has forced him and the skins into a different role for hime, so now he doesn't/didn't trust his first instincts.  He moved from a decisive winner with the physical tools to back up what his cokky brain told him to do... to being hesitant, which always leaves you a step behind, and the last two years he hasn't had the legs to bail him out.   

 

RGIII used to do everything that RW does, only better.... until he no longer did.  RW is the poor man's (original) RGIII, the problem is that RGIII has become the poorer man's RGIII.    The question is whether the changes in RGIII are permanent.  Particularly the cokkyness.   Real deep down confidence is POWERFUL, and It can't be taught.   (and, for instance, it is what Cousins lacks... when things go wrong, Cousins' confidence goes flying out the window---- but we do NOT want this to regress into another Cousins v. RGIII thread).  

 

Confidence can't be taught, but the question is whether it can be regained??  in RGIII's case, the probability of success is further hampered by the move towards style of offense he is also less instictive/confident at.   If you took rookie RGIII from week 15 (uninjured) and tried to transition him into a more drop-back/ pro-style offense WHILE he still had full confidence in his legs AND his fully cokkiness about his own ability--- i think you could've transitioned him with high probability of success.   to try to transition him while also simultaneously trying to restore confidence in his body, and rekindle his sense of  inherent cokkyness -- that is harder.   

 

here is to hoping it can be done   I am not super confident that it can... but it is certainly worth going all-in all of next season trying to, because  the Redskins (and Coach Gruden) are pretty much ****ed if it can't be done.  

[mcsluggo]

-------

 

and if its not clear from that rambling post:

 

1)   RW is better than RGIII + cousins at this point

2)   getting RW isn't an option, so lets hope that RGIII works out. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

I voted no and it literally has nothing to do with Griffin or Cousins. Wilson would be available (theoretically) because of the mega-contract he wants and I would not be willing to pay it to him regardless. 

[ThomasRoane]

Obviously never going to happen but...this thread is still way better than most of the Redskins articles on CSN Washington.  I mean, today I read an article talking about how RG3's name was mentioned in a movie...wow!  Riveting!  And the other day an article about what RG3 likes on his hamburgers...pfft.  

 

Thank you.  I don't think we can stretch this until next Thursday. Man training camp can't get here soon enough!

 

For those who think this thread wasn't necessary go back to reading about where the next stadium will be or the latest Wise column vomitting his white guilt rhetoric about the Redskins name.   

 

Are you not entertained?!?!

[Paul Cumberland]

Are you not entertained?!?!

 

love the gladiators movie reference...  one of my favs..

[Riggo-toni]

Rex Grossman part Deux and a QB who is looking more and more like Vince Young everyday for a QB who has been in back to back SBs within his first 3 years. How is this even a question?

Back in 2005 there was a similar poll asking whether we should have taken Ben Roethlisberger with the #5 pick in 2004 instead of Sean Taylor. I replied that anyone who wasn't a complete homer would say yes because a franchise QB is always gonna be worth more than a probowl safety. I was castigated by fans on this site making all the same claims I see here - Big Ben was just a system QB benefitting from Jerome Bettis and the Steeler D...he's so overrated and will never be more than a game manager...and so on.

Maybe RG3 will come around, or maybe he'll be out of football in a few years. Wilson will be around and be at least a 2nd tier QB (probowl but not elite) for another decade. That said, he's not worth Aaron Rodgers money.

[Taylor703]

I'd take Sean Taylor over Big Ben 100 out of 100 times. It wasn't Sean's fault that this front office couldn't find a QB.

[pjfootballer]

20-30 years ago I'd take Sean 100 out of a 100 times, but this is a QB centric league and if I had to do it over again (yes knowing what we already know), I'd take Ben 100 out of 100 times. We've been looking for a 10-15 year franchise QB since Joe Theismann and even he lasted only 9 years as an actual starter. Rypien was next as he was around for about 6/7 years. I'd take Ben.

[clskinsfan]

the biggest thing that RW does better than RGIII.... is not get hurt.   And that is huge, actually.  It has allowed him to make much more progress towards his potential, and it allows him to grow in confidence... whereas RGIII has regressed  in confidence certainly, and hasn't made the progress towards his potential (a pro style skillset) that we wished for at this point.    

 

People in this thread have talked about RW decision making in the red zone, and in crunch time.... people forget that RGIII HAD that, and in spades.  He was a confident, arrogant MF-er, and he backed it up on the field.  THen he got hurt, doesn't/didn't trust his body which has forced him and the skins into a different role for hime, so now he doesn't/didn't trust his first instincts.  He moved from a decisive winner with the physical tools to back up what his cokky brain told him to do... to being hesitant, which always leaves you a step behind, and the last two years he hasn't had the legs to bail him out.   

 

RGIII used to do everything that RW does, only better.... until he no longer did.  RW is the poor man's (original) RGIII, the problem is that RGIII has become the poorer man's RGIII.    The question is whether the changes in RGIII are permanent.  Particularly the cokkyness.   Real deep down confidence is POWERFUL, and It can't be taught.   (and, for instance, it is what Cousins lacks... when things go wrong, Cousins' confidence goes flying out the window---- but we do NOT want this to regress into another Cousins v. RGIII thread).  

 

Confidence can't be taught, but the question is whether it can be regained??  in RGIII's case, the probability of success is further hampered by the move towards style of offense he is also less instictive/confident at.   If you took rookie RGIII from week 15 (uninjured) and tried to transition him into a more drop-back/ pro-style offense WHILE he still had full confidence in his legs AND his fully cokkiness about his own ability--- i think you could've transitioned him with high probability of success.   to try to transition him while also simultaneously trying to restore confidence in his body, and rekindle his sense of  inherent cokkyness -- that is harder.   

 

here is to hoping it can be done   I am not super confident that it can... but it is certainly worth going all-in all of next season trying to, because  the Redskins (and Coach Gruden) are pretty much ****ed if it can't be done.  

 

Nice post. I agree with a lot of this. Griffin in that 2012 Thanksgiving game was ridiculous. His confidence at that point was through the roof. But It also shows how much he has regressed in the past 2 seasons. It really is sad.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I'd take Sean Taylor over Big Ben 100 out of 100 times. It wasn't Sean's fault that this front office couldn't find a QB.

You'd take a good/maybe eventually great safety over a HOF QB?

Or do you mean that without the benefit of hindsight?

[Taylor703]

You'd take a good/maybe eventually great safety over a HOF QB?

Or do you mean that without the benefit of hindsight?

Sean Taylor was the better player between the two.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Sean Taylor was the better player between the two.

At the time of the draft you mean...right?

I know ST is a god to us but he really was only elite in 2007. Not to mention that a safety will never trump the importance of a QB

[Taylor703]

At the time of the draft you mean...right?

I know ST is a god to us but he really was only elite in 2007. Not to mention that a safety will never trump the importance of a QB

I understand everything you're saying. I also know a lot of people would take Ben, I would take Sean.