The Conspiracy Thread

[Wildbunny]

9 hours ago, skins island connection said:

I get the bitterness of the crappy ref calls; seemed like every time we got on defense there was 2 flage per drive.

But, with that being said, it is still an issue with Norman that should have been corrected way before it got out of hand, and Gruden or Barry should have told Norman while he was on the sideline to stop slapping at the face mask because it IS costing us yardage and keeping drives alive.

I know there are rules to prevent going to the head/facemask, and yes the Crowder catch with the ref standing right there should have drawn a flag, but it applies to QBs as well, and they do call those very tightly when someone goes to the head of a QB. But jumping Mary Joseph, the coaching staff should have gotten a hand on that situation BEFORE it became a big issue later.

But I guess Gruden was too busy playing jacks on the sideline to have enough snap to see just what the hell was going on out there. HE is responsible for corralling problems like this; he should have stepped in and put a stop to it.

As a coach I wouldn't say anything to Norman regarding this.

As long as the facemask on Crowder's not a facemask, I would rather **** the Ref to see what Norman is doing as a penalty.

Heck after the helmet to helmet on DJax I would even tell my D players to hit in the head, since it's not a penalty anymore. That's the way to make sure the NFL understands it and address it.

9 hours ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

That game wasn't "stolen" from us. No matter what you thought of the officiating, if Hopkins makes the gimme kick, we win. It's as simple as that. 

There's no gimme kick in the NFL. But you do know that if Mike Nugent makes the PAT we lose? And do you know that the Bengals had 8 first downs on Penalties? Out of them they score 14 points by having drives extended on more than questionable calls?

If they calls it fair and square game never ends in a tie, mostly, and we probably win it. It's as simple as that.

[bedlamVR]

Having been there the penalties played a HUGE part in the game throughout the game - The Bengals just simply would not have been in the game had it not been for the penalties - and yes some of that is us not being disciplined but what annoyed me was the blatant no calls on the Bengals until late late in the game .... 

The bengals offence was getting away with all kinds of things - not one penalty called for illegal shifts (of which there were many) holding, false starts -

Conversly when it came to the Redskins i joked to my friend we should have had a penalty bingo card because some of the calls i have never heard of .( I am also still unsure how hood was called for defensive holding on a running play) 

What did strike me was how the refs realised things were getting out of hand as following a play just as he went to announce the penalty (hands to the face i think) the entire stadium erupted in boos . 

Personally i do think referees should be able to pick up flags without any repercussions . if a line judge sees - a hold that as the play unfolds would have had no impact on the play what so eve r- for instance when a DB is being held at the point a guy is getting tackled 25 yards away  on the other side of the field - Yes it is a penalty but there was no way the guy who was being held was going to make an impact on the play then pick the flag up again.  

Penalties are there to put right what was wrong - it is why for example pass interference should always be a point of infringement penalty because the penalty addresses the fact that if the receiver had not been interfered with then he could have made the catch- (If it was a 15 yard penalty then it would pretty much eliminate any pass greater than 20 yards because the penalty would be less than the gain and a DB i would simply grab the receiver any time he looked like he was going to catch the ball.) - Or offensive holding should be a 10 yard penalty because the assumption is without the hold the Qb would have been sacked for a loss of yards -  but calling a  WR holding someone 20 + yards away from the play - what is that putting right?   

Some officials get this and let the game flow - and it is fine if all the officials are on the same page. BUT to many are rules lawyers and if something is wrong in accordance with the word of the rule then it is wrong and should always draw a flag . Then of course you have the officials who straight up don't like specific players and they will call anything to get a rise out of them - as what happened with Deangelo Hall a few years ago . 

What would be idea would be the rules of the game should be applied subjectively as they apply to the flow of the game. However then you would have to ensure all referees see the game the same way and fr that you would need full time professional referees - which is apparently impossible 

Edited November 1, 2016 by bedlamVR

[UK Skins]

I've never really noticed it on TV but, seeing it live, it was frustrating how many times a flag was thrown on the opposite side of the field to the play. Yes I realise that certain calls like holding affect who the QB throws the ball too but I agree that penalties that have no affect on the play should be picked up.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

4 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

As a coach I wouldn't say anything to Norman regarding this.

As long as the facemask on Crowder's not a facemask, I would rather **** the Ref to see what Norman is doing as a penalty.

Heck after the helmet to helmet on DJax I would even tell my D players to hit in the head, since it's not a penalty anymore. That's the way to make sure the NFL understands it and address it.

There's no gimme kick in the NFL. But you do know that if Mike Nugent makes the PAT we lose? And do you know that the Bengals had 8 first downs on Penalties? Out of them they score 14 points by having drives extended on more than questionable calls?

If they calls it fair and square game never ends in a tie, mostly, and we probably win it. It's as simple as that.

Surely by "questionable calls", you aren't referring to Josh Norman? Because he deserved those flags. How many times do you have to be called for something before you wise up and stop doing it?

 

You seem to be placing the loss on the officials. I totally disagree that's why we loss. And I still stand by my statement, that despite what occurred the first 73 minutes, we had a shot to win, and our kicker missed a gimme. That's inexcusable.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Ray-Ban Dan

[TheGreek1973]

Like I have already said, no penalty was as large as the Garcon, proving at least in my mind certain officials in that game were bias against the Redskins.  First the contact, was within 5 yards, second the idiot that threw the flag couldn't see who was pushing who since he was the back judge, and 3rd you just don't throw a flag like that when in almost every play receivers and CBs run into each other.  Like I said if anything it was P Jones impacting the receiver's route by blocking him which btw he had the right to do since it was within the 5 yards or so.

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by TheGreek1973

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

5 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Like I have already said, no penalty was as large as the Garcon, proving at least in my mind certain officials in that game were bias against the Redskins.  First the contact, was within 5 yards, second the idiot that threw the flag couldn't see who was pushing who since he was the back judge, and 3rd you just don't throw a flag like that when in almost every play receivers and CBs run into each other.  Like I said if anything it was P Jones impacting the receiver's route by blocking him which btw he had the right to do since it was within the 5 yards or so.

 

I watched this penalty a few more times (I linked the video in thread or in another thread). Initially I thought it was a justified call, 50/50 on whether it gets called but enough of an arm extension from Garcon to make it not a phantom call .... but looking at the replay, the contact is right at 5 yards from the LOS. The more I see it, the more it looks like a ticky tacky call ..... with a very late flag, I dont think the ref throws the flag if Garcon doesnt catch it and the ball goes to another receiver.  

These last 2 games have been very frustrating. Missed opportunities.  

[Wildbunny]

27 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

Surely by "questionable calls", you aren't referring to Josh Norman? Because he deserved those flags. How many times do you have to be called for something before you wise up and stop doing it?

 

You seem to be placing the loss on the officials. I totally disagree that's why we loss. And I still stand by my statement, that despite what occurred the 73 minutes, we had a shot to win, and our kicker missed a gimme. That's inexcusable.

1 - Well that happens on every play on every game on any given sunday. Why Norman should get flagged more than anyone else? He has not a reputation of vicious player. If Refs had been flag happy on both sides, sure tell him to stop, but if it's one sided. Honestly, they'll have found something else to flag.

2 - I'm saying officials have a huge part in the loss. Because as I've said, we aren't good enough yet to overcome those kind of penalties. And honestly, not many teams are. Now you can tell us the Kicker missed a gimme, but what if the Bengals call timeout after the snap of the first FGA and the refs blew it away and call TO? Would you still say that our Kicker costed us the game? Got no proof of that, but considering the officiating we had, I wouldn't be that surprised that it effectively happened. After all, the Refs also aborted two plays for false starts, but never drawn a flags for those any neutral zone infractions the Bengals D was doing.

This is not soccer, when play is supposedly flawless. This is a possession and field position game. When refs starts attributing bad call to one and only team throughout the game that helps the Bengals sustained and extend long drives, you just can't diminish that. What about the psychological impact did that facemask on Crowder, or the helmet to helmet on DJax, had on our players since everyone saw it, but the ref (who was close to it). That was basically saying our O, you should worry guys, we're gonna give them a free pass to play dirty and nasty against you. And at the same time, you're sending a signal to Norman, don't put your hand anywhere near someone else's neck. Take a look back at the penalty on that hit on Crowder after he signaled fair catch. It took nearly 5 seconds for the Ref to drawn the flag. Crowder was jumping like crazy for him to flag the play... That's a bad signal send to our team. You just can't deny that psychological effect on our team, or you obviously have never played any sport where there is a ref.

I'll say it again, as a Coach, I would have done a Sean Payton at half-time and tell my guys to go for the head, and hit them hard. Don't care if they get penalties out of it, Refs are calling a crappy game, at least I would know why they are throwing flags. Drag down WR that is running free, and completly ****ed up the game for the second half. Have Kirk Cousins take a knee on every ****ing play. Have our D line up in two rows and applauds opposing RBs running through them. Have our ST allows Safety on every KR. Have them score 200 points or something, completly ****ing up the stats in an international game in front of national audience. Sure NFL will love that, the opposing team will feel embarassed, refs will be embarassed as well, stadium will be empty in less than 10 minutes.

Then, go out on the press, and explain, that well, considering how your guys weren't protected by officials, how calls where one sided, and so on... You would force the NFL to work on it. And if it's not enough, do it once again. Somehow, somewhere, someone else in the league will do alike if the reffing is still crappy.

I'm not even talking about missed calls, or whatever, I'm talking about blatlantly ignoring players security and go havoc on a player, that is not known as a vicious guy getting flags for things that happen every week from every DB in this league.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

I remember when I had my first beer. 

[Wildbunny]

Looks like it made you missed the OP of this thread hey

[Reaper Skins]

46 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Reaper Skins

[Reaper Skins]

5 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

47 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

What about the psychological impact did that facemask on Crowder, or the helmet to helmet on DJax, had on our players since everyone saw it, but the ref (who was close to it). That was basically saying our O, you should worry guys, we're gonna give them a free pass to play dirty and nasty against you. And at the same time, you're sending a signal to Norman, don't put your hand anywhere near someone else's neck. Take a look back at the penalty on that hit on Crowder after he signaled fair catch. It took nearly 5 seconds for the Ref to drawn the flag. Crowder was jumping like crazy for him to flag the play... That's a bad signal send to our team. You just can't deny that psychological effect on our team, or you obviously have never played any sport where there is a ref.

 

Regarding the penalties getting into our players heads and affecting their style of play....

Out of the three dropped interceptions Norman had yesterday, how many of them came right after one of these penalties?  Think they caused him to second guess where he was positioning himself on those routes at all?

Edited November 1, 2016 by Reaper Skins

[TheGreek1973]

Talk about conspiracy theories, and why most of us say we don't get any love not just the media or the league or the refs, today's power rankings are out from ESPN and somehow we are 16 and the Eagles are 8.  Now I don't know about you but in what universe are the redskins 8 spots lower than the team they handily beat within their division?

[Unbias]

Officiating across the board has been really bad for all teams. I think the NFL has done a poor job at undermining officials while the rules have adjusted to have them call more things. As a quick example how can a ref now put special emphasis on WRs taking head shots without their eyes gravitating to watching the head on other plays?

I'd also say every single fan of a team feels their team gets caught on questionable calls more than the opponent. It's just the way being a fan works. It's so tough to be impartial/objective when you are really hoping for a specific outcome. 

Anyway, I'm not against bad calls, because the game has so many moving parts they are bound to happen, but I'd like the bad calls to go both ways. In this environment I'm actually all for a 'make up' call every now and then. It just helps balance things out when one teams begins to get an advantage. 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

2 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

1 - Well that happens on every play on every game on any given sunday. Why Norman should get flagged more than anyone else? He has not a reputation of vicious player. If Refs had been flag happy on both sides, sure tell him to stop, but if it's one sided. Honestly, they'll have found something else to flag.

 

Honestly, I stopped reading after this. If you seriously think that DBs ram their hand in a receiver's facemask on every play, then there's no point in going further with this conversation.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

1 hour ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Talk about conspiracy theories, and why most of us say we don't get any love not just the media or the league or the refs, today's power rankings are out from ESPN and somehow we are 16 and the Eagles are 8.  Now I don't know about you but in what universe are the redskins 8 spots lower than the team they handily beat within their division?

Without looking, I'm pretty sure the Bears are at least 8 spots lower than the Vikings. You can't just look at a head to head matchup and base where one team should be ranked over another. Those rankings are based off the total number of games played, not one.

[Wildbunny]

15 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

Honestly, I stopped reading after this. If you seriously think that DBs ram their hand in a receiver's facemask on every play, then there's no point in going further with this conversation.

Well, if you think that only DBs are putting their hands in another player's facemask, then well, there's no point in going further. That kind of stuff happens all the time. Now Norman is being targeted for that. He only have been in the league for 5 years and sure he never did it before, as nobody else. And I'll stand to my point, since Crowder wasn't a facemask, what Norman is doing is nothing illegal. Just jamming on the line, which is fine by the rules.

[skins island connection]

5 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

As a coach I wouldn't say anything to Norman regarding this.

As long as the facemask on Crowder's not a facemask, I would rather **** the Ref to see what Norman is doing as a penalty.

Heck after the helmet to helmet on DJax I would even tell my D players to hit in the head, since it's not a penalty anymore. That's the way to make sure the NFL understands it and address it.

So, you're saying that WHILE the game is going on, and you were Gruden seeing the flags build up on Norman, you wouldn't step in and tell him to stop? That makes absolutely no sense at all, just like it didn't make any sense why Gruden didn't step in and put a stop to it.

It isn't pre-season, these games count; penalties extend drives, gives away yardage, etc.; if it were a playoff game would it make a difference? with the possibility of a flag like Norman's putting them in a game-winning FG range? 

This is what coaches are supposed to do; keep their players level headed, not acting like a maniac on the field. 

[MassSkinsFan]

14 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Well, if you think that only DBs are putting their hands in another player's facemask, then well, there's no point in going further. That kind of stuff happens all the time. Now Norman is being targeted for that. He only have been in the league for 5 years and sure he never did it before, as nobody else. And I'll stand to my point, since Crowder wasn't a facemask, what Norman is doing is nothing illegal. Just jamming on the line, which is fine by the rules.

When you play football, much of the action involves things that are, per the rulebook, illegal. Some more than others. 

For instance, on OL you have rules about holding. They are routinely bent and sometimes outright broken. Typically, refs look the other way unless they have meaningful impact or are so blatant that the player needs to be flagged to put an end to the bad behavior. Sort of like drawing a line in the sand. A great example you see all the time is the violation of this rule: "(Use of Hands, Arms, and Body:) No player on offense may assist a runner except by blocking for him." On almost every running play when a RB gets stuffed, OL comes up and pushes him and/or the pile forward. I know this is against the rules, yet I know we won't see a flag for it, because that's how refs routinely call games.

What Norman did was technically wrong, and I agree he shouldn't have expected the refs to stop calling it, and should have stopped. But, the severity of what he did versus the Crowder facemask or the DJax headhunting play was like comparing a peashooter to a Howitzer. A line needed to be drawn in the sand and wasn't. Those non-calls made it clear to Bengals players that they could get away with murder on defense. The calls on Norman told Skins D players they would be flagged for anything at all.

I think the refs threw a lot of late flags against the Skins when they knew it would make a difference, and allowed Cincinnati players to get away with infractions that would normally not be tolerated. I think it happened because they were trying to give an advantage. I think that if Hopkins makes that FG at the end of the game, there is going to be a late flag for holding or tripping - both things that routinely happen on a FG - against the Skins to move the ball out of FG range.

[TheGreek1973]

2 hours ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

Without looking, I'm pretty sure the Bears are at least 8 spots lower than the Vikings. You can't just look at a head to head matchup and base where one team should be ranked over another. Those rankings are based off the total number of games played, not one.

Our records are similar and we beat them.  how the hell can they be 8 spots above us?  two of their losses are to the same teams we lost to.  your case is weak sorry.

[CBass1724]

This is the best thread on the site now that there is no more twitter thread.

 

[MassSkinsFan]

Anyone know anybody who might be able to turn up NFL e-mails ordering the refs to influence contests? Asking for a friend... 

Edited November 1, 2016 by MassSkinsFan
Needed more tin foil

[LD0506]

4 minutes ago, MassSkinsFan said:

Anyone know anybody who might be able to turn up NFL e-mails ordering the refs to influence contests? Asking for a friend... 

Assange?

[Reaper Skins]

Two days after Norman criticizes the league, and one day after Gruden agrees with him and says Norman IS being targeted, its announced that Trent Williams, our best offensive player, gets busted for a substance abuse violation and can't play for a month.

Not condoning Trent's actions at all.  And I know the investigatiom has apparently been ongoing for awhile, but even the most skeptical of fans would be hard pressed to look at that time line of events and say the timing of them wasn't related.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Reaper Skins

[Momma There Goes That Man]

56 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

but even the most skeptical of fans would be hard pressed to look at that time line of events and say the timing of them wasn't related.

The timing of the events wasn't at all related 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Ray-Ban Dan]

6 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Well, if you think that only DBs are putting their hands in another player's facemask, then well, there's no point in going further. That kind of stuff happens all the time. Now Norman is being targeted for that. He only have been in the league for 5 years and sure he never did it before, as nobody else. And I'll stand to my point, since Crowder wasn't a facemask, what Norman is doing is nothing illegal. Just jamming on the line, which is fine by the rules.

Try and stick to the topic. You stated that DBs ram their hands on receivers' facemasks on every single play. I simply said that doesn't happen. And you know good well it doesn't.

And you saying that because no flag was thrown on Crowder, makes what Norman did ok, makes no sense. And it IS illegal. But apparently you and Josh are the only two that believe otherwise.