visionary Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Edited June 17, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) From earlier: Edited June 17, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Black People in this country have Stockholm Syndrome. I have it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Arrested for protesting an unjust murder by the very people they are protesting. The people arrested last night, nonviolently protesting, will spend more time in jail than the murderer who killed Castile. Edited June 17, 2017 by Gamebreaker 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I've been trying to figure out how the jury came to the verdict they did in the Castile case - not one that I agree with necessarily, but one that they felt they were obligated to make legally. According to my neighbor (who's an incredible narcissist, but not a dishonest one, so far as I can tell), who trained cops in Minnesota for 7 years, the standard for a justifiable shooting is low there- the officer only has to feel that his or her life is in danger. Pretty vague and ambiguous, I think, we'd all agree. By this standard, if the cop even believes Castile is going for his gun, that would qualify, which is a problem, because Yanez had asked him for his license, which he apparently hadn't yet given him. He also apparently didn't ask Castile to put his hands on the steering wheel, either, which would have been a good idea rather than saying 'don't reach for the gun'. I think this is a problem with the law and the low standard of feeling endangered. But I don't know if it will be fixed. Here are two articles about police unions, and how they allow sub par cops to serve - http://reason.com/blog/2017/05/30/tamir-rice-cop-fired-police-union-appeal he Cleveland police union is filing an appeal of the termination of Officer Timothy Loehmann, who two years ago shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice and today was fired for lying on his job application. After the 2015 shooting, Buzzfeed revealed that Loehmann had not disclosed he was about to be fired for dismal performance when he resigned from his previous position in Independence, Ohio. Cleveland police say they didn't request Loehmann's personnel file from Independence before hiring him. Had they done so, they would have learned that Loehmann had been deemed "unfit for duty" because of his "dismal" firearms performance. (Among other problems, he had become "distracted and weepy" during an exercise at a gun range.) http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/14/police-unions-produce-rules-that-protect And so police chiefs and political leaders, like those in Ferguson, are powerless to fire cops who through their actions wreck community relations and compromise the perceived integrity of the police force. Whether Ferguson's police chief or mayor are actually interested in firing this cop is hardly known. But in the current situation, their hands are tied by an intricate system of legal protections built for cops around the country. Firing Michael Brown's killer would not make him guilty of murder. That's what jury trials are for in this free country. But cops, who are authorized by the government to use violence to attain their goals, ought to be held to a higher standard than everyday criminals, not lower ones. A job is a privilege, not a right. Much of the left has been pushing the opposite idea, especially about public sector jobs. The corruption and abuse of power that's cultivated ought to come as no surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Mexican police are not unionized. Canadian police have a strong union. Compare and contrast... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 hours ago, grego said: I've been trying to figure out how the jury came to the verdict they did in the Castile case - not one that I agree with necessarily, but one that they felt they were obligated to make legally. According to my neighbor (who's an incredible narcissist, but not a dishonest one, so far as I can tell), who trained cops in Minnesota for 7 years, the standard for a justifiable shooting is low there- the officer only has to feel that his or her life is in danger. Pretty vague and ambiguous, I think, we'd all agree. It is vague and that is a big problem. It's also pretty puzzling because you seen instances of armed pedestrians/suspects arrested all the time without being shot and/or killed. In this specific case it sounds like the cop got spooked and because the way the law is written that is really all it takes. You will notice in almost every case where the cop shoots a civilian they are always sure to use the "afraid for my life" line regardless. At some point there is going to have to be some kind of baseline created to justify "afraid for my life" defense instead of the way it is applied now which seems like a "get out of anything" card. There has to be a point where "afraid for my life" isn't a blank check. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) An innocent man that did nothing wrong was killed by a cop. No charges, the family gets an "our bad," and that's it? How is that okay? Because the cornball ass cop "feared for his life?" If the "broken taillight" he pulled Philando over for wasn't enough for the cop to fear for his life, I'm sure the scary 3-year old girl in the backseat probably was. I'm not an unreasonable person. Yes, I realize that the cop probably feels terrible for what happened. And no, him spending years in jail won't bring Philando back. But what the ****, man. Something's gotta give. Edited June 19, 2017 by Chew 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 hours ago, youngchew said: An innocent man that did nothing wrong was killed by a cop. No charges, the family gets an "our bad," and that's it? How is that okay? Because the cornball ass cop "feared for his life?" If the "broken taillight" he pulled Philando over for wasn't enough for the cop to fear for his life, I'm sure the scary 3-year old girl in the backseat probably was. I'm not an unreasonable person. Yes, I realize that the cop probably feels terrible for what happened. And no, him spending years in jail won't bring Philando back. But what the ****, man. Something's gotta give. Yeah, but he got fired so he'll have to get a job as a cop in another city. That mean's he'll have to move. That's packing, renting a moving truck, etc. That's some serious work and a pain in the ass. That totally makes up for him murdering someone. Have some pity, dude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 On 6/18/2017 at 11:58 AM, TryTheBeal! said: Mexican police are not unionized. Canadian police have a strong union. Compare and contrast... fortunately there aren't ANY other endogenous factors/variables that might explain differences in Mexico and Canada... guess you nailed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just too easy for these guys, when you can just shoot and kill anyone if you even remotely feel threatened. Still harken back to my days as a kid watching Cops, and the restraint nearly all these guys showed in various situations. Then again, i guess it's different when you have a camera crew with you, recording your every word/move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, youngchew said: An innocent man that did nothing wrong was killed by a cop. No charges, the family gets an "our bad," and that's it? How is that okay? Because the cornball ass cop "feared for his life?" If the "broken taillight" he pulled Philando over for wasn't enough for the cop to fear for his life, I'm sure the scary 3-year old girl in the backseat probably was. I'm not an unreasonable person. Yes, I realize that the cop probably feels terrible for what happened. And no, him spending years in jail won't bring Philando back. But what the ****, man. Something's gotta give. The cop was charged. Pretty sure for 2nd degree murder. How a jury of 12 came back not guilty is beyond me. Has to be something specific in the jury instructions. Like if there is any basis to the "I was afraid for my life" defense that they had to vote not guilty (but a cop could claim afraid for my life on any interaction with an unknown person). Of all the cases, I was fairly confident this one would lead to conviction. Edited June 19, 2017 by Popeman38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoAli Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, visionary said: I don't go into this to much, have both sides in my life. This one right here though makes me miss the original BPP, and their willingness to defend the black communit from the crooks and cops. Edited June 20, 2017 by ClaytoAli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, ClaytoAli said: I don't go into this to much, have both sides in my life. This one right here though makes me miss the original BPP, and their willingness to defend the black communit from the crooks and cops. I dont think this is the one you want to hang your hat on. We'll see, but so far, it doesn't look good for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoAli Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 8 hours ago, grego said: I dont think this is the one you want to hang your hat on. We'll see, but so far, it doesn't look good for her. Pick your own battles. She was pregnant with kids around. Woman with child and a knife should never end in death unless at war. The cops weren't at war and their lack of restraint seems deeper than their fear for safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said: Pick your own battles. She was pregnant with kids around. Woman with child and a knife should never end in death unless at war. The cops weren't at war and their lack of restraint seems deeper than their fear for safety. i understand and dont necessarily disagree, in an ideal world, anyway. kids, no kids, woman, pregnant, man, whoever- if you charge a cop with a knife (which is what appears to have happened based on the information currently available), there is a very good chance you will not live. clay, the officers didnt choose to be in that situation. she put them in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoAli Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 4 hours ago, grego said: i understand and dont necessarily disagree, in an ideal world, anyway. kids, no kids, woman, pregnant, man, whoever- if you charge a cop with a knife (which is what appears to have happened based on the information currently available), there is a very good chance you will not live. clay, the officers didnt choose to be in that situation. she put them in that situation. They knew the risk going in. The result was to treat her like a non-mental. The result should have been to treat her like a mental from the start especially knowing a pregnancy and children were involved. It is a was, but this tips the race scale for me. No excuse for the cops here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said: They knew the risk going in. The result was to treat her like a non-mental. The result should have been to treat her like a mental from the start especially knowing a pregnancy and children were involved. It is a was, but this tips the race scale for me. No excuse for the cops here. thats in interesting point- i actually dont know what the protocol is for dealing with someone who is having mental issues. i'm not sure what they should have or would have done differently. do you charge into the house like they do in prison with 8 guys with riot gear on and tackle the person? open the door and taze them immediately? i dont know if theres a good answer. and i'm not sure that knowing that she had a history of mental issues means that they could foresee her coming at them (if this is, in fact, what happened) with a knife. the race scale- how do you think race affected this shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 The department acknowledged that the officers had less lethal means available to them and chose not to deploy them. I'm interested to know why that was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, dfitzo53 said: The department acknowledged that the officers had less lethal means available to them and chose not to deploy them. I'm interested to know why that was. Bet it starts with a They and ends with a feared for their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 People will focus on her race, which is understandable, but she was mentally ill and I'd bet that the mentally ill are by far the most disproportionately affected group by police violence. Cops just aren't trained to deal nonviolently with uncooperative and volatile people. The moment they become afraid, and they seem to be skittish as cats, people get hurt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now