Some More Cops Who Need to Be Fired

[steve09ru]

1 minute ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Hey, im just a random brown guy. The way I see it action is one thing, but im comfortable (after being cultured on this subject) telling black people how they should feel about a broken system that clearly sees them as second rate.

 

Eventually, i can imagine one gets tired of the peaceful protests, candlelight vigils, town hall q and a's, and campfire kumbaya's. As a minority, even i feel the sting, and im sure it doesn't compare to those who share the skin color of a group of people who have had a long history of being harrassed, beaten, outright murdered, and there, 1, not being enough people who even care, and 2, there being no one there to give them justice.

 

I mean... reverse the situation. What if this was you, and your family? How would you feel, after what probably  feels like the thousandth time a black man has died at the hands of police and there being nothing done about it?

 

I suggest you ponder that before you decide to jump on the next upset personally who says something you don't agree with

Did y'all not read anything I said?  Again, and I'll try to make it clear as possible and repeat myself, a life is a life, a great person who has done no wrong and was not a threat does not deserve to die and their death should not bring happiness to anyone.

 

read the initial quote about the Dallas shooting that I quoted and tell me how feeling happy about that is in any way, shape or form ok regardless of past experiences or anything.

[grego]

39 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

No. Some lives are worth more than others according to our legal system. 

 

What do you base that on? 

[Gamebreaker]

My boss once asked me why I don't have a concealed carry permit. I have a lot of former veterans at my office, and nearly all of them have one. And they are all white men. I gave him a look, and he misunderstood and said,"oh yeah, you live in Maryland." I told him,"no, I don't want to get shot in a 'misunderstanding.'" He's a middle aged white guy. A sensible dude. But he and others at my office( I am one of only two black men) often have to remind them of what I can't do without being perceived as a threat. The younger employees get it, the older ones don't. 

 

I wouldn't dare get a concealed carry. Even though it is my constitutional right to have a firearm. Even though I have zero criminal record and could easily pass a background check for whatever weapon I wanted, I won't even go to a gun store because if I buy one, I don't want to carry it home in a car with me and get pulled over. I'm African American, but more@youngchew's complexion than dark skinned. Regardless, I've still been pulled over for bogus reasons and yelled at with unnecessary aggression. 

 

And because of that I occasionally wonder about the added risk I'm taking by not having a firearm in the house. What if someone breaks in and their armed? My metal baseball bat doesn't really stack up. But honestly, I'm feel like I'm more likely to be killed by those paid to protect and serve than I would be by a criminal inside my home. 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Gamebreaker

[steve09ru]

13 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

And I'm sorry that you can't understand why others might be more outraged than you are at the fact that the people who are paid to allegedly risk their lives saving others are so cowardly that they won't accept a REASONABLE level of risk in the course of "heroically" doing their jobs. So forgive me if I have a bit of difficulty in not seeing their lives as cheaply as they see ours. And for the record, by "ours" I mean non-blue lives. Just a bit of an experiment, the outcome of which I have no way of knowing. We've seen outpourings of grief and support across all strata of society when cops get ambushed and murdered. (I don't have a problem calling it what it is BTW) Please find me any FOP or cop statement on the record that this kind of brutality needs to stop without it being followed with a statement to the effect that the victim had it coming. Find me one cop that sympathized with guys like Castile who were law abiding and ended up dead for no reason without it being followed by some iteration of the victim brought it on him/herself. Once you find that voluminous list, please tell me again who has no regard for human life. 

And this is exactly what the issue is.  You seem to think you have to choose a side.  I'm outraged when an innocent victim is killed by the police just like I am when an innocent officer is killed.  Justice needs to happen but unfortunately it doesn't always happen that way.  That does not justify killing innocent people though (cop or civilian).  We've gotten to much on the you can only be on 1 side thing and that is going to get us nowhere

Edited June 17, 2017 by steve09ru

[Gamebreaker]

3 minutes ago, grego said:

 

What do you base that on? 

 

Probably U.S. History. 

[Mr. Sinister]

9 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

Did y'all not read anything I said?  Again, and I'll try to make it clear as possible and repeat myself, a life is a life, a great person who has done no wrong and was not a threat does not deserve to die and their death should not bring happiness to anyone.

 

read the initial quote about the Dallas shooting that I quoted and tell me how feeling happy about that is in any way, shape or form ok regardless of past experiences or anything.

 

I read exactly what you posted, word for word.... But it seems pretty clear you did not return the favor, otherwise you would've seen where I addressed  it.

 

That's of course if you are interested in seeing any side but your own

[steve09ru]

Just now, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I read exactly what you posted, word for word.... But it seems pretty clear you did not return the favor, otherwise you would've seen where I addressed  it.

 

That's of course if you are interested in seeing any side but your own

Again, I said a life is a life.  Innocent don't deserve to die and no one should feel happy about an innocent member of society (cop or not) being killed.  Please explain how that line of thinking is one sided

[Mr. Sinister]

Just now, steve09ru said:

Again, I said a life is a life.  Innocent don't deserve to die and no one should feel happy about an innocent member of society (cop or not) being killed.  Please explain how that line of thinking is one sided

 

You say a life is a life, yet you seem to refuse to understand someone's anguish over several circumstances where that is not the case. How do you expect a human being to feel after multiple instances of being shown that their lives aren't on par with a family dog? Read carefully

[steve09ru]

Just now, Mr. Sinister said:

 

You say a life is a life, yet you seem to refuse to understand someone's anguish over several circumstances where that is not the case. How do you expect a human being to feel after multiple instances of being shown that their lives aren't on par with a family dog? Read carefully

So let's look at it this way.  all the terrorist activities going on where there have been muslims involved killing innocent men, women and children is wrong correct?  How do we act and how should we feel for a Muslim who is killed that has been a contributing member of society?

 

now lets switch that and replace the word Muslim with police officer.  

 

If you feel 'happy' that either of the 2 above were killed then, again, you (not you directly) are the problem.  Do you have to sob, memorialize, etc.? No but to feel happy, which was initially stated, is completely ignorant and wrong.  I'm sorry if you still don't understand that

[Mr. Sinister]

You have a good night 

[steve09ru]

Just now, Mr. Sinister said:

You have a good night 

You as well and here's the line that sparked this:

 

"Perhaps now some of you understand why some people (not me of course) were happy about the Dallas incident."

 

and if you can understand why some were happy with that event, well you're in my thoughts/prayers

[Mr. Sinister]

3 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

You as well and here's the line that sparked this:

 

"Perhaps now some of you understand why some people (not me of course) were happy about the Dallas incident."

 

and if you can understand why some were happy with that event, well you're in my thoughts/prayers

 

If you can understand "Have a good night," then please, have a good night

Edited June 17, 2017 by Mr. Sinister

[TradeTheBeal!]

They say we're a lefty forum, but nobody...and I mean NOBODY... ever rolls into the Gun Violence thread and drops the "every life is a life" crap when cops get killed. None of us ever take the position that some cop-killers should go free because justice is complicated.  And cops are scary, and I was scared, and lives are lives so whatabouttheseotherlives.

[steve09ru]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

They say we're a lefty forum, but nobody...and I mean NOBODY... ever rolls into the Gun Violence thread and drops the "every life is a life" crap when cops get killed. None of us ever take the position that some cop-killers should go free because justice is complicated.  And cops are scary, and I was scared, and lives are lives so whatabouttheseotherlives.

Nothing was said about guns- yes there needs to be more restrictions but that topic is like beating a dead horse.  My only issue was that one single line of somehow justifying and understanding of an innocent life being taken because of actions of others.  That is never ok in my book regardless of situation.  I feel the same sadness for a loss of life regardless of race/occupation/class/etc.  it's someone's mother, father, husband, wife, son , daughter, brother, sister and so on that was lost because of stupidity and hate.  Why would you ever feel happy or understand how someone could feel happy for an innocent victim?

[steve09ru]

So I guess just answer this question as a yes or no.  Is there ever a time where you, or anyone, should feel happy that an innocent percent was killed?

 

if the answer is no, we agree and end of conversation.  

[Mr. Sinister]

No one said anything about right or wrong. That's what you are not getting. At all.

[steve09ru]

I quoted what I was referencing.  It was insinuated that it's understandable for someone to be happy about the Dallas cops being ambushed and killed while sitting in their car. 

 

And again, that's where this whole thing started and the only thing I have been talking about and pointing out.

 

so my question was, is it ok to be happy for an innocent life being taken?  

 

Im really not sure what's hard to understand on this?  I think it's pretty clear.  It's a simple yes, I can understand why people would be happy and innocent cop was killed or a no, you should never feel happy when an innocent person should never be killed

 

and maybe the confusion is coming from my quote of you but I wasn't following up on the whole, just a snipit from the other poster.  Apologies if that's the case.  And to confirm, I didn't disagree with what you said about the system as a whole, it's the **** at the top that I keep repeating that I'm referencing.

Edited June 17, 2017 by steve09ru

[The Sisko]

36 minutes ago, grego said:

 

What do you base that on? 

 

33 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

Probably U.S. History. 

...and the present.

 

17 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

So let's look at it this way.  all the terrorist activities going on where there have been muslims involved killing innocent men, women and children is wrong correct?  How do we act and how should we feel for a Muslim who is killed that has been a contributing member of society?

 

now lets switch that and replace the word Muslim with police officer.  

 

If you feel 'happy' that either of the 2 above were killed then, again, you (not you directly) are the problem.  Do you have to sob, memorialize, etc.? No but to feel happy, which was initially stated, is completely ignorant and wrong.  I'm sorry if you still don't understand that

I'm no longer a Muslim. I find their dogma to be as morally bankrupt as Xtianity. That said, I don't entirely feel differently about SOME of the so-called terrorist groups than the people that ambush cops, i.e. I understand their anger and desperation but the way they're going about things is wrong. 

 

However here's where your analogy goes off the rails. Do we pay terrorists to serve and protect? Do we imbue terrorists with the power of life and death while expecting they not abuse that power? I could go on but I think you get my point. However there's one more important difference. We've seen Muslim individuals and organizations denounce terrorism plenty of times. So to repeat the question I asked earlier, where's your examples of cops denouncing this type of behavior? Instead, there's the blue wall of silence. The fact that you ignored this question makes your contention that you believe "life is life" to ring a little hollow. Maybe you should just come out and say all lives matter. ?

[TradeTheBeal!]

Kudos to Steve for taking the focus away from our latest tragedy by making it all about his feelings and grinding semantics on a random post.  

 

 

[Gamebreaker]

This has nothing to do with this topic, and in an effort to stop this derail and put this issue to rest, I want try to explain what I think Sisko meant. 

 

Some people( not him) are so sick and tired of watching innocent men die on videos and know without any doubt the public servant who did it will go free, that their minds no longer see ANY officers any differently than the bad ones. Therefore, their frustration and anger has boiled over for so long that watching "these murderous pigs" get what's coming to them in Dallas brought them a guilty joy. I'm sure many people who felt that way would never say it's right to feel that way, but nonetheless, it's how they feel because they have ceased believing justice will ever be served. 

 

There is nothing right about that, but you understand their pain....but not sharing the same emotion at the deaths of innocent men. When I watched the coverage on that ex-solider systematically taking out officers who he knew nothing about, and then the standoff, I just felt despair for what may be coming in the future. I don't wish harm on anyone, officers or civilians, but understanding why people feel a certain way is different than actually stating you also have that feeling. 

[steve09ru]

4 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

 

...and the present.

 

I'm no longer a Muslim. I find their dogma to be as morally bankrupt as Xtianity. That said, I don't entirely feel differently about SOME of the so-called terrorist groups than the people that ambush cops, i.e. I understand their anger and desperation but the way they're going about things is wrong. 

 

However here's where your analogy goes off the rails. Do we pay terrorists to serve and protect? Do we imbue terrorists with the power of life and death while expecting they not abuse that power? I could go on but I think you get my point. However there's one more important difference. We've seen Muslim individuals and organizations denounce terrorism plenty of times. So to repeat the question I asked earlier, where's your examples of cops denouncing this type of behavior? Instead, there's the blue wall of silence. The fact that you ignored this question makes your contention that you believe "life is life" to ring a little hollow. Maybe you should just come out and say all lives matter. ?

You can be angry and upset about how things are being handled but like you said, some are going about it the wrong way.  Celebrating deaths of the innocent who have done nothing which I don't think is ever right.

 

To your question: http://www.care2.com/causes/5-police-officers-who-have-spoken-out-against-racism-and-unjustified-lethal-force.html

 

there have also been separate interviews I've seen where police, police chiefs, service members have spoken out against the brutality that is going on.  You see it often when you hear them speak out and state that.  I see a lot on Facebook or forums where they openly state that shooting x was unjustified and how it's tough because of the actions of few.  I also have a family member who openly speaks out about it and is a trainer within crisis intervention in va and his colleagues state the same.  I've personally talked with others about the situations going on and hear the same from them.  Is the forum as open as it should be? No

[Mr. Sinister]

@steve09ruI guess it is pretty simple for someone like you, i bet.

 

If we were to all face judgment for things we've FELT towards our fellow man, we'd all br guilty (well, most of us)

 

Some of us have felt deep hurt, anger, sorrow, desperation, you name it. I can't get inside the head of a young black male, terrified behind the wheel pulled over by a cop, when some pie in the sky life is a life person like you would tell him that he has nothing to worry about, the cops are here to protect and serve. Im willing to bet he doesn't believe that

 

I can't get inside the head of an elderly black person who remembers what it was like during the civil rights era, watching black people get beaten, maimed, killed, you name it, and feeling like nothings changed.

 

 

 But i know the feeling of hopelessness, and the type of general "don't give a damn about people that don't give a damn about me" type of anger that it can bring.

 

Is it right? NO (though right and wrong can be interpreted differently depending o  what color your skin is and what uniform you're wearing)

 

Is it acceptable? NO

 

Is it understandable? YES, you are damn right it is. Understandable and real, not some little punchline someone can spout to make themselves feel better. A life is most certainly not a life

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Mr. Sinister

[steve09ru]

3 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

This has nothing to do with this topic, and in an effort to stop this derail and put this issue to rest, I want try to explain what I think Sisko meant. 

 

Some people( not him) are so sick and tired of watching innocent men die on videos and know without any doubt the public servant who did it will go free, that their minds no longer see ANY officers any differently than the bad ones. Therefore, their frustration and anger has boiled over for so long that watching "these murderous pigs" get what's coming to them in Dallas brought them a guilty joy. I'm sure many people who felt that way would never say it's right to feel that way, but nonetheless, it's how they feel because they have ceased believing justice will ever be served. 

 

There is nothing right about that, but you understand their pain....but not sharing the same emotion at the deaths of innocent men. When I watched the coverage on that ex-solider systematically taking out officers who he knew nothing about, and then the standoff, I just felt despair for what may be coming in the future. I don't wish harm on anyone, officers or civilians, but understanding why people feel a certain way is different than actually stating you also have that feeling. 

Thanks for explaining his thoughts . Hopefully that's what he meant but wasn't quite clear and that's why I kept asking for clarification on how one can justify feeling happy but nothing was ever said so kudos.

6 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Kudos to Steve for taking the focus away from our latest tragedy by making it all about his feelings and grinding semantics on a random post.  

 

 

Not really- it was something that was brought up with a follow up question.  Usually how forums work when you try to understand the thought process of a statement.  He could have said what gamebreaker just stated a long time ago and it would have been done but with his post history it didn't really come off as surprising about happiness of an ambush in Dallas

[steve09ru]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

@steve09ruI guess it is pretty simple for someone like you, i bet.

 

If we were to all face judgment for things we've FELT towards our fellow man, we'd all br guilty (well, most of us)

 

Some of us have felt deep hurt, anger, sorrow, desperation, you name it. I can't get inside the head of a young black male, terrified behind the wheel pulled over by a cop, when some pie in the sky life is a life person like you would tell him that he has nothing to worry about, the cops are here to protect and serve. Im willing to bet he doesn't believe that

 

I can't get inside the head of an elderly black person who remembers what it was like during the civil rights era, watching black people get beaten, maimed, killed, you name it, and feeling like nothings changed.

 

 

 But i know the feeling of hopelessness, and the type of general "don't give a damn about people that don't give a damn about me" type of anger that it can bring.

 

Is it right? NO (though right and wrong can be interpreted differently depending o  what color your skin is and what uniform you're wearing)

 

Is it acceptable? NO

 

Is it understandable? YES, you are damn right it is. Understandable and real, not some little punchline someone can spout to make themselves feel better. A life is most certainly not a life

 

 

 

Thanks for answering that.  Get what you are saying but guess I'll just disagree with the understandable part.  I can understand if it was person x who caused the pain and something happened to that individual but I guess I'll never understand the piece of it where someone who is not involved with the original act.  Example: taking responsibility/reprocussions for my brothers/friends/families actions that I had no part of in the harm and am I fact trying to help but get labeled with them and results in my death.  I guess I'll never understand that piece of it.

Enjoy your all nights

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something to keep and eye on.

 

This issue is one of the things I had in mind the other day (when we were talking about possible widespread bloodshed) when I was saying we really haven't gotten a chance to see much of the administration's reaction to protests yet.  Hopefully things don't spiral one way or the other.

Edited June 17, 2017 by visionary