ESPN - How many pieces were the Redskins away from the Superbowl in 2014 Article

[carex]

seems to me if a guy lets a ball get knocked out of his hands and it's sent off it's pretty random, but if it gets knocked out at his feet he's got pretty good odds of recovering it

[GibbsFactor]

With every post you make it clear that you don't know what you are talking about but you also make it clear that you aren't interested in the actual facts.

 

Cheers!

 

Why don't I know what I'm talking about?  Because I think it's silly to think anyone can grade a player off the TV copy?    Because I know no NFL teams are paying for any grading services?     Why don't I know what I'm talking about?  Again, explain to me how PFF is grading Bashaud Breeland off the TV copy.    

 

I'll wait.

[darrelgreenie]

Why don't I know what I'm talking about?...............grade a player off the TV copy?..........Because I know no NFL teams are paying for any grading services?

Because your statements aren't true. They are factually incorrect.

You would know they aren't true if you know anything about PFF other then your own false assumptions.

But you've already stated that:

 

 

I don't care what the article says.

The article would point out in the clear light of day that your statements are false.

 

But why take that risk huh?

 

Rabble, rabble, rah, rah PFF!

[GibbsFactor]

Because your statements aren't true. They are factually incorrect.

You would know they aren't true if you know anything about PFF other then your own false assumptions.

But you've already stated that:

 

 

The article would point out in the clear light of day that your statements are false.

 

But why take that risk huh?

 

Rabble, rabble, rah, rah PFF!

 

So you can't answer my question?   How do they grade players that aren't on the screen with the TV copy?

[darrelgreenie]

Read the article and you tell me.

 

What are you going to say once you finally read the article and realize that your statements while loud have been wrong? Very, very wrong?

[Sea Bass]

As some have pointed out, this is based solely on 2014.

That's why a 3 time Pro Bowler like Trent Williams is "average", and Ryan Kerrigan is "good."

Kerrigan had a great year this year with 13.5 sacks.  While Trent Williams had a down year.

[theTruthTeller]

As some have pointed out, this is based solely on 2014.

That's why a 3 time Pro Bowler like Trent Williams is "average", and Ryan Kerrigan is "good."

Kerrigan had a great year this year with 13.5 sacks.  While Trent Williams had a down year.

What you said, plus, as I understand it, how plays are rated differently from what seems obvious, once you try to isolate a player apart from the rest of the team.  I'm sure LeSean McCoy also wonders how he can be rated "bad" when he was the second leading rusher in the NFL.  But they do explain it, somewhat.  I'm just wonder why they think that an average back, like Rashad Jennings for example (PFF's rating, not mine), would have done better than McCoy did this year.  Jennings pretty much sucks.  You'd need two combine his two best seasons to match what McCoy did in 2014 with a broken down OL.

 

Also, I try to watch every NFCE game and I hardly ever watch AFC games unless its a good one.  So it shocks me when Cleveland's Taylor Gabriel (stats) and Andrew Hawkins (stats) are rated as "good" while Jackson, Garcon, and Cruz are rated as "average".  But maybe if I watched tape on those guys I'd think that Cleveland has a QB problem.  And I'm still trying to figure out why Witten would be "elite" and Romo would be "good" if the ratings are based just on this year.  Or why Rueben Randle would be considered "good" when, as they admit, 31% of his mediocre production came in two meaningless games at the end of the season.

 

In any case, I agree that the Skins have a long way to go.  When you're 4-12, you really shouldn't worry about how many elite players are on your roster.

[tshile]

they're basing the 'rankings' on analysis of the stats for the players as they compare to averages and such.

 

the redskins were 4-12

 

it would be really hard to be 4-12 and produce statistics for any one player (much less multiple players) that go far about 'average'.

 

look at the list. it's essentially the list of teams and how they finished the year where everyone is shuffled up/down a few spots based on how many players accumulated above/below average stats and by how much.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

As some have pointed out, this is based solely on 2014.

That's why a 3 time Pro Bowler like Trent Williams is "average", and Ryan Kerrigan is "good."

Kerrigan had a great year this year with 13.5 sacks. While Trent Williams had a down year.

Which if you look at it logically, makes no sense whatsoever lol...

What makes a player "good", "elite", etc. is consistency...not over weeks or even months but over seasons. If you base it ONLY on 2014 then you remove consistency from the equation. Which means you are removing player categories from the equation by default.

Maybe the article should have said teams need 40% of their roster to have a good/elite year instead of being good/elite players.

[Unforgiven]

I clicked on the Cowboys (first team I saw) and saw they had Jason Witten listed as elite in 2014 and I just laughed and moved on.

 

That's not even me knocking Jason Witten, he had a good year but he was the 10th ranked TE for yards and tied for 11th in TDs for TEs.

[Mad Mike]

I don't usually start threads but not sure where this would go to discuss. Any PFF experts or fans out there care to explain something?

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12179331/how-many-players-away-super-bowl-team

 

 

 

 

 

From there its broken down by teams, as for the Redskins they said that we had 0 Elite Players, 1 Good player (Ryan Kerrigan), 22 Average Players, and 10 Bad Players. They ranked us 29 out of 30 remaining NFL teams. 

 

Reason I am posting this is because I do not understand what PFF was looking at when they labeled Alfred Morris a "BAD" player.

 

Can someone explain that to me? I'm not trying to say I think he's elite, rather trying to understand PFF metrics in general for them to say something like that. Can someone please explain?

 

Sounds about right. Ive been saying this since forever. WE LACK TALENT. 

 

I dont see how anyone can think we could possibly have a talented team after losing a HOF type player like Sean Taylor, wasting cap space on people like Hayensworth, loosing MORE cap space in punishment for trying to get out of cap hell, and then spending three first round picks on a QB who has struggled (to put it kindly) since his first year. It takes years of good decisions to make up for that kind of record and we should all send a note of thanks to Mike Shanahan for at least getting the process started.

 

We have a shot to turn things around now if we are patient and dont go changing coaches every year because we have unreasonable expectations for the players we have.

[LD0506]

I figured it was only three.............

 

[hitmandm]

We lack a coach. Jay Gruden is an idiot. Do not discount this. He was quoted saying that the NFL doesn't have an offense that RG3 can play. Well, the Seahawks were a bonehead call away from back to back wins in an offense that rg3 would be perfect for.

 

Gruden is a moron. Until he gets fired, we have no chance. I say we get the O coordinator for Seattle.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'm going to put this thought here because I don't know where else to put it:

I'd really be interested to see whether skins offense would look like if every single player except for QB played for the pats. I'm other words, take Pats coaching staff, Brady, and every other player from the skins.

Maybe not as good as the pats offense, but I'd be willing to bet with much better coaching and scheme, play calling, and QB play, you might be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Pats OL was getting eaten up most of the night, but they still managed to manufactire drives and points.

Just a passing thought. We'll never know.

[Warhead36]

I'm going to put this thought here because I don't know where else to put it:

I'd really be interested to see whether skins offense would look like if every single player except for QB played for the pats. I'm other words, take Pats coaching staff, Brady, and every other player from the skins.

Maybe not as good as the pats offense, but I'd be willing to bet with much better coaching and scheme, play calling, and QB play, you might be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Pats OL was getting eaten up most of the night, but they still managed to manufactire drives and points.

Just a passing thought. We'll never know.

Our receivers are much more talented than NEs. Brady throwing bombs to Jackson or hitting Garcon on those slants? I bet Reed would put up monster #s too.

 

Our OL isn't as good as NEs but with how quick Brady gets rid of the ball it doesn't matter. And he actually knows how to step up into the pocket so he couldn't take as many silly sacks as RG3/McCoy do(Cousins is actually decent at getting rid of the ball quick, he just throws it to the wrong guy).

[veteranskinsfan]

_{It looks like we have eleven talented football players and our new General Manager}

_{needs to go out and find eleven new players with talent going into next year.}

_{If he can get 5 at least from the draft then maybe we can find three more who get dumped}

_{off other team's rosters.  Our GM needs probably 2-3 years to build a roster with more talent.}

_{Special teams cannot be overlooked either.}

[theTruthTeller]

I'm going to put this thought here because I don't know where else to put it:

I'd really be interested to see whether skins offense would look like if every single player except for QB played for the pats. I'm other words, take Pats coaching staff, Brady, and every other player from the skins.

...

 

 

Our receivers are much more talented than NEs. Brady throwing bombs to Jackson or hitting Garcon on those slants? I bet Reed would put up monster #s too...

Pretty much every team would be better with Belichik and Brady.  I'm not sure what this proposition proves - that the rest of the Skin's offense is actually good, or that Brady and Brady can make up for a lot of mediocrity on offense?  I don't expect either Brady or Belichik plan on coming here, so what's the point?

 

NE has used their money to build a team that wins football games, not fantasy football.  They budgeted $7.5M of their cap money on Amendola and Edelman combined and $14.8M on Brady.  We spent $13.9 on Garcon and Jackson, and pieced together a line that doesn't allow either to get deep with any regularity and QBs that are, and this is being generous, horribly inexperienced.  Amendola and Edelman may not be a flashy as Garcon and Jackson, but they get open enough for Brady to get them the ball in a ball control offense.  That's all that counts.  NE could have had Jackson if they had wanted to give up depth elsewhere.  What does that tell you?

[Probos]

This would have been an interesting piece but PFF is garbage and ruined it. They miss on player evals as much as they hit. 

 

Whatever.  The proof of that eval is on the field performance.  Skins suck.

 

After watching the Superbowl it really makes me realize how far away the Skins are -- light years man.  Light years.

[Mad Mike]

We lack a coach. Jay Gruden is an idiot. Do not discount this. He was quoted saying that the NFL doesn't have an offense that RG3 can play. Well, the Seahawks were a bonehead call away from back to back wins in an offense that rg3 would be perfect for.

 

Gruden is a moron. Until he gets fired, we have no chance. I say we get the O coordinator for Seattle.

 

Sorry but I'm more inclined to believe in Gruden than our idiot fan base. 

 

And NO I don't want the guy who made the dumbest play call in Super Bowl history. (What kind of moron calls a pass in that position with plenty of time on the clock and a timeout when you have beast mode revved up and ready to pound it in?)

_{It looks like we have eleven talented football players and our new General Manager}

_{needs to go out and find eleven new players with talent going into next year.}

_{If he can get 5 at least from the draft then maybe we can find three more who get dumped}

_{off other team's rosters.  Our GM needs probably 2-3 years to build a roster with more talent.}

_{Special teams cannot be overlooked either.}

 

Special teams are built with DEPTH. And the clearest indicator to anyone who understands the game that we have lacked a boatload of talent for years.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Pretty much every team would be better with Belichik and Brady. I'm not sure what this proposition proves - that the rest of the Skin's offense is actually good, or that Brady and Brady can make up for a lot of mediocrity on offense? I don't expect either Brady or Belichik plan on coming here, so what's the point?

I'm guessing the point is that the Skins aren't 13 good/elite players away from being SB contenders...they are a franchise QB and talented head coach away from it.

[pjfootballer]

We lack a coach. Jay Gruden is an idiot. Do not discount this. He was quoted saying that the NFL doesn't have an offense that RG3 can play. Well, the Seahawks were a bonehead call away from back to back wins in an offense that rg3 would be perfect for.

Gruden is a moron. Until he gets fired, we have no chance. I say we get the O coordinator for Seattle.

If you are going to make statements like this, at least know the name of the OC that you are talking about. Not knowing his name discredits your post and even if you can't think of it (I sometimes forget names in my old age), you can look it up.

Darrell Bevell BTW.

[Skinsinparadise]

Not sure about the lets give credit to Shanny for starting the process to success comment. There are a number of teams that have turned around their teams quickly. Shanny was here for 4 years and traded his share of draft picks and arguably his drafting here was medicore at best. The 2013 draft in particular is cringe worthy IMO. He inherited a decent defense (granted overrated but not awful) and under him (like in Denver) turned into one of the league's worse, special teams went downhill, too.

Arguably we've not had a coach here under Danny who has done a decent job at drafting and putting the future before the present. Belichick is a good example IMO of a guy who is looking 2-3 chess moves ahead when it comes to building a roster. Scot I think will be that guy, too. Shanny IMO definitely wasn't that guy.

[skins island connection]

  The single biggest, most important piece, is the coach, IMO, respectfully speaking.

 

  It takes a coach and a front office working together to find the pieces that fits the coach's ideals.

  It also takes players who believe in their coach, i.e.: Belichek, who would run into a wall JUST because he said to do it. Thats what made Gibbs such a great coach; the players believed in him and his visions.

 

 But the coach has to put the right pieces in at the right time against the right opponent and convince them they are better and they have to win their individual battle.

 Its not all about egos, those are left at the door by players who understand they are not bigger than the game. As in sunday's game, the coach who comes up with a scheme that can slow or stop their opponents most likely will win.

 

 I'd venture to say there are maybe a handful of players who may not be worthy of being on the Redskins; if a coach can get into the head of his players, and teach discipline and technique and drill it into them until they know nothing else, he stands a good chance to be successful. But it depends on the coach and his format; if the coach's skillset in these fields is limited, his players will be as well.

[theTruthTeller]

I'm guessing the point is that the Skins aren't 13 good/elite players away from being SB contenders...they are a franchise QB and talented head coach away from it.

Do you mean a historically successful coach and a historically successful and experienced QB?  Exactly where would you find those available?  If they are not available (and in the case of Brady, available under the salary cap), aren't you just making a roster with imaginary players and coaches on it?

 

We need a lot of decent players on both sides of the line.  Trying to knock one over the fence with yet another HC and another can't miss QB is doomed to failure.

[Mad Mike]

 I'd venture to say there are maybe a handful of players who may not be worthy of being on the Redskins; if a coach can get into the head of his players, and teach discipline and technique and drill it into them until they know nothing else, he stands a good chance to be successful. But it depends on the coach and his format; if the coach's skillset in these fields is limited, his players will be as well.

 

Speaking of Belicheck, Take note of how fast he dumps even big name players if they don't produce enough to justify a contract. And by that I mean, at the first sign of a drop in talent. How many players do you think would still be here after Belicheck was the coach for two years? Not many.