Zoony Bin: The official '15 offseason Twitter thread, Whine room now open serving Francis Copious Speculation Cab, Lavar buffet Incl., tips included

[darrelgreenie]

Sure he can receive guidance, but its his choice in the end to make. Do you want the GM to dictate who Gruden can hire? So you end up with him hiring someone he doesnt want to hire, or doesnt trust. And it would most likely hurt the relationship between the HC and the GM. The GM dictating who the HC can hire would indicate way more FO issues then letting the coach make his hire. Let him make his bed, he has to lay in it if it doesnt work.

You're entitled to feel however you want about GM being involved in the staff building process or sometimes dictating/guiding certain hires. (like it/don't like) All I'm saying is that it happens. The GM is there to run the organization, his role is to help everyone including the HC.  He's not there to allow the HC to make his own bed and lay in it.

 

And maybe dictate is too harsh a word or whatever but GMs are often the guiding/deciding voice in assembling some members of the coaching staff. There is a reason Bruce Allen said he sat in/was going to sit in on the DC interviews. GMs in many places have the power to say ~'I like coach X on the staff you (HC) want coach Y; lets sit down and come to an agreement on which guy we hire'. In Baltimore its common knowledge that it was Ozzie's decision to release Cam Cameron and move Caldwell up to OC for the playoff run (i live in Baltimore insert Baltimore joke here). Usually those inner machinations of a FO don't get out but GMs are part of the staff building process. For as  much as people bad mouth Jerry Jones he was the one that hired Linehan and gave him the playcalling duties not Garrett.

[MartinC]

Ah so that explains it.  Joe Barry is teaching rocket science to middle school drop outs.  He's making football way to intellectual for these jocks.  That's what happened to Detroit in 2008, now we know why.

 

Thats what you got from that article? How does your take stack up with this quote from the article ...

 

"I thought I was an educated guy and my three years with him, it was like going back to being a rookie again," Johnson said by phone. "I learned a whole different side of football and techniques and ways to play the game. It really gave me a boost in my career and another jolt of energy because he's so intense. ...It was fun to me."

[Boss_Hogg]

if true Scot should fire people today!!!! Unacceptable.

 

Dianna Marie Russini @NBCdianna  ·  11h 11 hours ago

Told candidates for the Redskins DC job were all told they can bring in any assistants they prefer. Nobody has job security on defense

 

John Keim @john_keim  ·  11h 11 hours ago

“@NBCdianna: Told candidates for the Redskins DC job were all told they can bring in any assistants they wanted.” ditto

 

[MisterPinstripe]

That wasn't posted by an "insider" it was posted by a reporter for the Chicago Bears. The reporter said a coach text him and told him the story.

I mentioned the insiders since recently they have been retweeting stuff like that. I still go back to trusting Keim, and the other Redskins reporters, over a guy covering the Bears and they have said that it was not the case. They have reported that the Redskins liked Morris but would allow a DC to bring in whatever assistants he wants. Plus the fact that it has also been reported that Morris could still be fired.

 

Its nice the insiders dont seem to have good information anymore. Perhaps the leaks have been sealed. Coincidence that it happened after Haslett was fired?

[Boss_Hogg]

Camden Rider ‏@RiderCamden  11m11 minutes ago

Marshawn Lynch gets fined for celebrating, told not to wear gold cleats. Patriots cheat to win the AFC title game. NFL should lay the hammer

 

Krissi ‏@KrissiBex  Jan 21

Patriots had to cheat and deflate their balls so that Tom Brady's little girl hands can throw it to Julian Edelman's tiny hands

 

Brian ‏@HailTTR  4m4 minutes ago

The NFL league office has something against Marshawn Lynch. It’s a different fine or threat every week, lol.

 

RedskinPride ‏@RedskinGlen  6m6 minutes ago

#DeflateGate Bill Belicheck "the dog ate my homework" "It wasnt my fault - there was a hurricane, my suit didnt come back from the cleaners!

 

CSN Redskins ‏@CSNRedskins  44m44 minutes ago

Need to Know: Is Jay Gruden’s seat getting hot already? http://ow.ly/HL6ku  #RedskinsTalk

 

New Era ‏@KMBmoreSkins  2h2 hours ago

"@NBCdianna: Told candidates for the Redskins DC job were all told they can bring in any assts they prefer. Nobody has job security on def"

 

Jearld Burley ‏@unlmtd_potntial  58m58 minutes ago

@KMBmoreSkins @NBCdianna Look how quickly this came out... alot of whispers and sensationalism so who can you believe.

 

RedskinPride ‏@RedskinGlen  1h1 hour ago

#DeflateGate This strikes the Heart of Integrity of the @NFL. Kraft should be furious, every coach and player that knew suspended for a year

 

John Keim ‏@john_keim  1h1 hour ago

NFL vet LB Jarret Johnson played for Joe Barry in SD. Here's his take on #redskins new DC http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14845/jarret-johnson-high-on-redskins-defensive-coordinator-joe-barry …

 

T ‏@TMM75  13h

13 hours ago

What was it that makes Ed Donatell such a great DB coach?

 

Rick Snider ‏@Snide_Remarks  2h2 hours ago

This should be the Redskins No.1 offseason priority. My Post Express column. http://wapo.st/15vqwYK 

 

Ryan Clark ‏@Realrclark25  2h

2 hours ago

Car pool wars have really cooled. Guess it's true. I'm the only one that knows it's a competition. You'd think they'd follow me on here. Lol

 

Washington Redskins ‏@Redskins  2h2 hours ago

#Redskins WR Ryan Grants hopes to "continue to learn" from vets like Garcon, Jackson, Moss: http://oak.ctx.ly/r/2cz5m 

 

Desean Jackson ‏@DeSeanJackson11  15h

15 hours ago

Bakersfield We comin to get cha right !! #Frampcamp http://instagram.com/p/yIpRhQuNqY/ 

 

John Keim ‏@john_keim  3h

3 hours ago

Redskins wake-up call: Assistant coaches: Not a lot of reason for wake-up calls in the offseason, bu... http://es.pn/185rEnu  #Redskins

 

Chicago Bears ‏@ChicagoBears  15h15 hours ago

#Bears have reached agreement with Ed Donatell to become their new DBs coach. He replaces Jon Hoke, who has been informed he won't return.

 

Andrew Ngo ‏@ngofsho  10h10 hours ago

Wiz lost but got a pic with @cbaker92redskin so tonight was a win lol

 

[RemoveSnyder]

Well, to be perfectly honest, would you expect the Redskins to say anything else?

 

"No, that's right Dianna, we forced Rah on Fangazzi, that's why he took Donatello with him to Chi-town."

 

Hardly. 

Holding my breath for the truth from any of these parties, on a scale of 1 to 100, my interest ranks about -25. 

[Boss_Hogg]

Well, to be perfectly honest, would you expect the Redskins to say anything else?

 

"No, that's right Dianna, we forced Rah on Fangazzi, that's why he took Donatello with him to Chi-town."

 

Hardly. 

Holding my breath for the truth from any of these parties, on a scale of 1 to 100, my interest ranks about -25. 

 

John Keim is reporting the same thing. He claims "multiple sources" have confirmed the Skins defensive coordinator and hire/fire anyone he wants. 

[RemoveSnyder]

RedskinPride ‏@RedskinGlen  6m6 minutes ago

#DeflateGate Bill Belicheck "the dog ate my homework" "It wasnt my fault - there was a hurricane, my suit didnt come back from the cleaners!

 

Locusts. 

 

John Keim is reporting the same thing. He claims "multiple sources" have confirmed the Skins defensive coordinator and hire/fire anyone he wants. 

 

Make that -26. 

[Boss_Hogg]

Locusts. 

 

 

 

 

Make that -26. 

 

"I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!" 

 

Bill Belichek

[DogofWar1]

 Emmanual Benton retweeted

Emory Hunt ‏@FBallGameplan  1h1 hour ago

You saw @LSUfball OT La'el Collins play a lot of LG yesterday. Definitely wasn't out of place and can excel at both as a pro #SeniorBowl

 

Emmanual Benton ‏@Manny_PPI  2m2 minutes ago

Tough to say. Have to watch more on Chris Hackett. I like Eskridge and Clayton Geathers RT @DHallFanClub: who is the best FS in the draft?

 

Mike Jones ‏@MikeJonesWaPo  4m4 minutes ago

Long wait didn't rattle Joe Barry. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/?p=42795 …

 

 

Also, why is "coaching vs. talent" such a fight?

 

 

Talent trumps coaching, but some people in here seem to be making it out to be 90%-10% in one direction or the other. Other people in here are taking a more measured approach. I feel talent is more important, but you're still going to be bumping into a ceiling with talent if your coaching holds you back, so we can't neglect it either. Probably something like 66%-33% talent-coaching.

[santanathegreat]

Deflate-gate is stupid and boring.  And LOL at the NFL investigating the Patriots...hypocrisy much.

 

I think the Patriots should have their own independent investigation which finds that they didn't know the balls were deflated, much like the NFL internal investigation on Ray Rice.

 

The press conference would be great...Belicheck at the podium: "The New England Patroits did an internal investigation on the New England Patriots.  The Patriots found that the Patriots did not know the balls were deflated. Thank you."

[Ghost of]

 

Talent trumps coaching, but some people in here seem to be making it out to be 90%-10% in one direction or the other. Other people in here are taking a more measured approach. I feel talent is more important, but you're still going to be bumping into a ceiling with talent if your coaching holds you back, so we can't neglect it either. Probably something like 66%-33% talent-coaching.

 

I think this is fair.

 

What I don't get about the "it's the talent, guys" argument is how some coaches get fired and then someone else comes in and turns the team into a juggernaut (Harbaugh) and then the same people say the talent was the reason Harbaugh succeeded.

 

The NBA is FAR more reliant on pure talent than the NFL and even there coaching can make the difference between an impressive squad and multiple titles and deep playoff runs.

[ZRagone]

 

Because we do a lot of coaching hires and every year we turn back and say, oh yeah we have no talent.  It's groundhog day.  We can continue it if you like.  After 2 decades ya might say, wait lets draft some talent and then look for coaching.  We do the opposite.

 

 

 

 

Or I don't know...this may sound crazy...

 

How about try and look for a good coach AND draft some talent.

 

I know, crazy...people can do two things at once. Especially when you have an entire staff. Who would have thought such a thing is possible.

 

Does talent matter? Yes. Should we try and get talent? Yes. Does that mean we should just kind of shrug our shoulders and not try to get good coaching? Hell no.

 

I think, like so often it seems on this website, people are so desperate to combat over exaggeration on one side that they go the other way. To the point where it's basically being acted like coaching is entirely irrelevant save for a handful of rare exceptions.

 

No.

 

It's also this strange act as if coaching and talent in and of itself are entirely exclusive from each other. It's not. Good coaches help to improve players. It helps them to maximize that talent. It also helps those with less talent to perhaps overcome that deficiency to some degree via technique or preparation.

 

There's nothing wrong with a fan WANTING the organization to actually attempt and do both...get better talent AND get better coaching. It's absolutely reasonable to suggest this organization isn't good enough to likely succeed at that; but given the tract record over the past 20 some odd years it'd be reasonable to suggest this organization isn't good enough to succeed at even getting one of those things right.

 

But the goal every year absolutely should be wanting to get more talent and to have good coaching; BOTH THINGS.

 

Are some people over valuing the impact a coaching change may have? Absolutely. But there's ways to deal with that without this ridiculous over the top degrading of coaching and it's impact into the equation by some on this board lately.

[skinsfan4128]

A couple of observations pertaining to the latest events:

 

1) ES is hilarious and a constant source of entertainment.  n Thanks to all who keep it Extremely interesting.

 

2) The hiring of Barry, and more specifically the non-hiring of Fangio, is actually pretty interesting dependent of who's story you choose to believe. Every position coach/coordinator has their successes/failures. Some get a second chance and make something of it, other do not. The cream rises to the top, I suppose. But I choose to look at it this way: Hey, at least it ain't ****ing Haslett.

 

3) Bruce may very well like having his cronies on board, or at the very least, likes that Gruden continues to hire folks that he has past working relationships with. However, if you look at the different hires, that is not always the case. IE, Bill Callahan and McVay. Either way your tin foil cap tips to, Gruden is forming his staff for this season with his own calls. Bruce may very well have input on these additions, but you have to know that should Gruden fail, Bruce will be more than happy to pull the plug to save his own ass. Just smart business.

 

4)To those that started ****ing about SM after the Barry hiring, seriously?  The mad just got here and needs time to retool this roster. That will be enough in and of itself a task that will keep him busy enough in his first year on the job.  With that said, I confidently believe that should **** go bad this season (as I think most of us fully expect), SM will be in a position next offseason to conduct his own coaching changes while continuing to rebuild the roster.

 

Those are views, and they are certainly up for interpretation by my fellow ES'ers. But let's see what we have before we decide to go nuclear and keep a level head.

[HapHaszard]

Rick Snider ‏@Snide_Remarks 3m3 minutes ago

If the Pats are truly guilty of cheating once more, the NFL won't levy any sanction short of suspending Belichick for a year that matters.

 

 

 

 

[chipwhich]

 

Or I don't know...this may sound crazy...

 

How about try and look for a good coach AND draft some talent.

 

I know, crazy...people can do two things at once. Especially when you have an entire staff. Who would have thought such a thing is possible.

 

 

Well you have to walk before you run.  We have been doing a lot of crawling.  Because I assume we wont do much this year on the field, if I am Snyder, why would I buy out the coaching staff when this is year one of a rebuild?  If I am Snyder, I already know I have an inability to pick a good coaching staff.  Let my new GM come in and start to build.  As the new organization gels, then they can evaluate new coaching.

 

Personally speaking, I don't want them starting over yet again, as I assume they will have to start over again in a couple of years.  We aren't a mature enough organization to make those moves now.

[HapHaszard]

Rick Snider ‏@Snide_Remarks 5m5 minutes ago

The NFL won't get to the bottom of Deflategate unless Brady or the ballboy cracks. It's that simple.

[ZRagone]

I don't understand why everybody else on the Lions staff from the 2008 team gets a reprieve except Barry.

Rod Marinelli - Defensive Coordinator of Cowboys

Joe Cullen - Defensive Line coach of TB

Phil Snow - DC at Temple

Jimmy Lake - DB Coach at Washington

Clayton Lopez - DB Coach at Oakland

I don't think Barry is any kind of a worldbeater, but I think he deserves a star next to those lions seasons because he was working under Matt Millen, who was the only GM worse that Vinny Cerrato.

 

 

A reprieve? Huh?

 

Rod Marinelli - DC is a step down from his former position, head coach

 

Joe Cullen - Lateral, position coach for an NFL team is on par with what he was

 

Phil Snow - DC at a middling FBS school. This is a step down from a position coach in the NFL

 

Jimmy Lake - Position coach at a non-traditional pwoer FBS school. This is a step down from a position coach in the NFL

 

Clayton Lopez - Lateral, position coach for an NFL team is on par with what he was.

 

So 3 of the guys you listed have downgraded from where they were with the Lions. Two are a lateral, at essentially the lowest rung of NFL coaches. I'm not sure Barry's really being treated much different than most of the other former Lions coaches.

[HapHaszard]

Another must read:  John Keim's article in Bubba's Redskins Breaking News

 

Analyzing Joe Barry's Detroit days

[MisterPinstripe]

And are the punishments really going to be that bad even if they do for deflating a ball? Doubt it.

[AM626]

 

3) Bruce may very well like having his cronies on board, or at the very least, likes that Gruden continues to hire folks that he has past working relationships with. However, if you look at the different hires, that is not always the case. IE, Bill Callahan and McVay. Either way your tin foil cap tips to, Gruden is forming his staff for this season with his own calls. Bruce may very well have input on these additions, but you have to know that should Gruden fail, Bruce will be more than happy to pull the plug to save his own ass. Just smart business.

 

 

 

Sean McVay was in Tampa while Bruce Allen was there in 2008 and on the Florida Tuskers the next year with Jay Gruden

Bill Callahan was in Oakland with Bruce Allen 1998 till 2001

 

*tips tin foil cap*

 

 

But I like your point about Haslett, I just hope we don't have to wait until a contract runs out again when a coach is failing so obviously as he was..

[Jumbo]

Re: Keim/others on the rah/don etc....

 

I speculate too (and on more than the team itself---some folks in this "tweet" game have their own little agendas going) but as we always note, those who have a mindset will use those "reports" when it suits, and dismiss them when it doesn't. 

 

That said, methods of operation are still unclear with this org and that lack of clarity has been woven deeply in the outfit for over a decade. As has lack of credibility in FO/coaching comments to the media the last handful of years. As a bottom line, I don't blame anyone simply  for not believing what anyone in the org says.

 

Unfortunately, "discussing" most of this here these days here is 90%  playing in the same mud, even more furiously, and clouding the water even more, partly with the "use any source when it says what I think, abuse any source when it doesn't" routine.

 

 

Really, the endless taking of speculations and theories by an individual or group of like-mined, and repeating them over and over and over as fact in pursuit of a goal, has been bread and butter in our society in many areas besides football for quite awhile.

 

Bottom line, until improvement shows on the field, doubt and pessimism is simply what the org has brought upon itself.

 

Doesn't mean some of the dumbass/hypocritical/Axis II stuff going on here is good for anything, either.

[KDawg]

 

 

 

Jimmy Lake - Position coach at a non-traditional pwoer FBS school. This is a step down from a position coach in the NFL

 

 

 

Not sure I agree there. I don't think we can know if it's a step up or down. What's his pay grade? FBS schools pay half way decent. If his pay is higher than it would be as an NFL positional coach, it's an upgrade. *shrug*

[RedBeast]

Spoke to Gruden last night and he said we are all a joke and don't know what we are doing...that we will all be banned in a year or two and that ES will be rebuilt from the ground up.

Just a little humor break from all of the heavy posts and threads!!!

[skinsfan4128]

Sean McVay was in Tampa while Bruce Allen was there in 2008 and on the Florida Tuskers the next year with Jay Gruden

Bill Callahan was in Oakland with Bruce Allen 1998 till 2001

 

*tips tin foil cap*

 

 

But I like your point about Haslett, I just hope we don't have to wait until a contract runs out again when a coach is failing so obviously as he was..

Well the, I stand corrected.    I was unaware that McVay had ties to Bruce. I'm so getting ready to purchase a Bruce voodoo doll and a ****load of knitting pins!

 

And I do believe that should Gruden fail with this team again this season (I suspect we will), we'll be having another thread dedicated to coaching hires this time next year.