Thinking Skins Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yes it probably will, but it won't happen since Raheem is here to stay and is obviously one of the reasons Vic didn't sign here, or wasn't offered the job to be more specific. Bruce & Jay knew Vic was a package deal with Donatell and offering the job would mean canning or demoting Raheem which they weren't willing to do, besides they already hired Barry before the interview with Fangio. Keep in mind Raheem Morris hired Joe Barry after the whole Lions debacle, so you think Joe Barry doesn't owe him one? I don't understand why everybody else on the Lions staff from the 2008 team gets a reprieve except Barry. Rod Marinelli - Defensive Coordinator of Cowboys Joe Cullen - Defensive Line coach of TB Phil Snow - DC at Temple Jimmy Lake - DB Coach at Washington Clayton Lopez - DB Coach at Oakland I don't think Barry is any kind of a worldbeater, but I think he deserves a star next to those lions seasons because he was working under Matt Millen, who was the only GM worse that Vinny Cerrato. Millen was the Lions' CEO for seven full seasons, from 2001–07; during that time, the club compiled a record of 31-81 (with at least nine losses each season). Detroit's .277 winning percentage was among the worst ever compiled by an NFL team over a seven-year period; only the Chicago Cardinals of 1939-45 (10-61-3, .141) and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of 1983-89 (26-86, .234) were less successful. With a draft record that included a number of high first-round draft picks who were considered poor choices (Charles Rogers, Joey Harrington, and Mike Williams among them),[15] and widespread disappointment among fans, the media, and even some players, Millen received a five-year contract extension from owner William Clay Ford, Sr. at the start of the 2005 season.[16] Following the team's 3–13 performance in 2006, Ford announced that Millen would be retained as General Manager for at least another season, because, according to inside sources to the Ford family, they still believed that Millen was the best GM that the Lions ever had.[17] On September 24, 2008, Millen was confirmed to no longer hold his positions with the Lions. Whether he was dismissed or resigned was unclear.[18] It was later reported by a team official that Millen was actually fired.[19] Of the Lions who played under Millen, only receiver Calvin Johnson (the fourth WR chosen by Detroit in the 1st round during Millen's reign) and center Dominic Raiola remain on the team's roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't have any information, but I don't believe the report. And it perplexes me that Russell was on the air suggesting its accurate because he was on the air earlier today saying that he thought it was better than 50/50 that Morris is gone. If you go purely by reports-insiders, they aren't really contradictory. Reports are: A. Barry likes Morris. Morris once hired Barry. Barry likely hires Morris IF Morris accepts. B. The FO likes Morris. Heck we don't have to hear that from an insider. He's the only assistant coach on staff they interviewed for the top gig of D coordinator C. Raheem Morris may elect to go elsewhere, other opportunities are out there. C doesn't contradict A. No one has said yet that if Raheem Morris ends up elsewhere its because of anything but other opportunities existing for Morris that he might deem more attractive. Personally, I am not an insider so I got no clue but running with what's out there right now, seems to be the story for me. As for Russell he didn't confirm the story from sources, he just said he buys into it, and said there is nothing wrong with relationships driving the process. He had Mike Jones on and Jones said he didn't buy that's why Fangio didn't take the job but Jones said he heard they were telling some candidates in the interviews that they ideally would like to keep Raheem Morris. In the scheme of things IMO it all doesn't really matter outside if they love Morris they might be disappointed if he ends up elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Think of every universally hailed coach across all sports. Then think of the players they coached. Were they great coaches? Sure (some more than others), but they were not alone. I liked the rest of your post, but I disagree a bit here. Yes, talent matters. But the "think of the players they coached" thing doesn't really work as a knock on the importance of coaching. Isn't it possible that good coaching helps create these outstanding players? There has to be talent there, yes, but good coaching improves that talent. And I can come with the opposite as well: Think of every universally failed head coach across all sports. Then think of the players they coached. You usually don't think of much... Why? Because they weren't as successful. Coaching matters. This whole stance on it not mattering is actually becoming old quickly. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have coaches to develop it and put it to its best possible use as well as manage it, you're going no where with it. We haven't tried every kind of coach. Do you know why I say that? Because every time we hire one, they screw up somewhere with their staff. Shanahan hired Haslett. The list goes on and on. I agree with the part about needing a personnel guy. A guy who can see personnel that fits our scheme. But it's equally important to find guys to coach the scheme and tweak it to player strengths. Every aspect of an organization matters. Every aspect. Front office, coaches and players. If one of those structures is crumbling, the foundations falters and the entire structure falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM626 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hey I hope Barry succeeds as much as the next guy, same goes for Raheem, I hope he was handcuffed by Haslett the last couple of seasons and Fletchers high opinion of him is justified. I actually liked the move when he came over initially. But I'm just sceptical and more willing to believe the rumors and reports the more they get confirmed by actual moves Bruce and Jay are making right now. I'm not sayin we should dismiss Barry just because of his tuuurrrrible Lions DC record, but I also don't like to hire guys who don't have the credentials that shows they can handle the job. I don't think we're in a good position to take a flyer on a guy since we determined after last season we need someone to teach good fundamentals to our young guys. But again I'm hoping he proves me wrong. Very sceptical at the moment though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 John Keim @john_keim 17m17 minutes ago Redskins wake-up call: Assistant coaches: Not a lot of reason for wake-up calls in the offseason, bu... http://es.pn/185rEnu #Redskins Keim has been on top of his **** the last couple of weeks. I love these nugget-style links, Hap. Thanks for posting. This one is tasty - wait and see for sure: My Bears colleague, Michael Wright, tweeted Wednesday night that Vic Fangio was told by the Redskins they were keeping Raheem Morris as secondary coach, which might have factored into his decision to accept a similar position in Chicago. Fangio wanted to bring Ed Donatell with him as secondary coach. But a source close to Fangio said it wasn't true that the Redskins told this to him. Keep in mind, too, that the Redskins interviewed Donatell for the head coaching job. Donatell, Fangio and Jay Gruden also share an agent. Morris might return, but, again, even Wednesday there was doubt among some in the organization about him coming back. That's far from definitive, but it's a discussion among some assistants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Rich Tandler @Rich_TandlerCSN 3h3 hours ago Need to Know: Is Jay Gruden's seat getting hot already? #Redskins http://wp.me/pAil9-3xd #RedskinsTalk Well worth the read from Rich T, ya'll. This piece might surprise you: How long does he have to turn it around? How patient will Dan Snyder be? I’m inclined to think that he has two more years to get the team moving in the right direction. However, he does have to show improvement and that’s where the seat is getting hot. The improvement doesn’t have to come in the won-loss record although a season of, say, 6-10 or 7-9 would help his prospects and 2-14 would damage them. If Scot McCloughan is true to his word and the Redskins look to rebuild almost exclusively via the draft then they know it will take some time. The improvement has to come in a few areas. At times last year it seemed like the job was too big for him. That’s not unusual for a coordinator promoted to a head coaching job. But he needs to show progress in getting a handle on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asoccerplayer99 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Exactly. Let the experts here explain to you why we have to play the waiting game with bottom of the barrel overseers like Gruden, Morris, Barry a couple of more years though. Redskins fans upset that a big name wasnt signed for our team in the offseason. Danny really instilled that sense in us, and yet we would all be hard pressed to name one big name off season signing in the last 10 years that 1) panned out fantastically as expected, and 2) isnt named DeSean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Rich Tandler @Rich_TandlerCSN 3h3 hours ago Need to Know: Is Jay Gruden's seat getting hot already? #Redskins http://wp.me/pAil9-3xd #RedskinsTalk Well worth the read from Rich T, ya'll. This piece might surprise you: I like the sound of that. Its going to take a couple of years to start building up this team through the draft, in the meantime allow Gruden those two years to build the team how he sees fit. Others may disagree, but I would rather give Gruden 3 years to turn this around, give him time. If he fails, fine, you can bring in a HC with a base of talent already built. We as a fan base always preach patience, but then quickly turn around and dont display it. Its also important that we show coaches and players around the league stability. That we are willing to allow coaches the time to try to make it work. If we are firing coaches every year or so thats going make coaches not feel like they cant trust to come here, that they wont get a fair shake. We have that reputation already, its going to take time to show that its not the case anymore. We may have already seen some of the byproduct of that with Fangio feeling more comfortable going to the Bears with Fox. Rather than just preach patience, lets actually show patience. Gruden may not be the answer, I have no idea. But lets show the commitment to give a coach the chance to build his vision for the team before cutting them loose. Especially since we are all aware we need to build the talent on this team up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo 3squire Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Soooooo....even other sports media are scratching their heads, just like those in this thread and on ES in general about the Barry hire, yet we shouldn't be upset right? Got ya.lol Here's to the eventual Redskins coaching staff apocalypse in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapHaszard Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Emmanual Benton @Manny_PPI 1m1 minute ago From @DashDiallo1, Day Two notes on the South Team Senior Bowl practice: http://proplayerinsiders.com/nfl-player-team-news-features/senior-bowl-south-team-practice-flashed-day-two/ … John Keim @john_keim 5m5 minutes ago NFL vet LB Jarret Johnson played for Joe Barry in SD. Here's his take on #redskins new DC http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14845/jarret-johnson-high-on-redskins-defensive-coordinator-joe-barry … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Soooooo....even other sports media are scratching their heads, just like those in this thread and on ES in general about the Barry hire, yet we shouldn't be upset right? Got ya.lol Here's to the eventual Redskins coaching staff apocalypse in 2016. I'm not sure where people get the "shouldn't be upset" narrative from. It's almost like it's being pulled from thin air. I've read maybe three posts here that suggest you should like the hire, and even those weren't firm. What most people here are suggesting, from what I have read, is that this isn't Joe Barry's fault that he was hired. And Joe Barry deserves the opportunity to prove everyone wrong. So it's important to have an open mind. I firmly believe that. Now, at the same time, I also believe this was a poor hire from a fans perspective. I have no idea what Barry's rep is, and I haven't watched enough San Diego to really get a feel for him. This was a move that made the coaching staff look even more lame duck. And part of me wonders if this was an experiment with the FO to put faith in Gruden's hire and that Bill Callahan may be the man in the wings to take over the team. But that's pure conjecture and the whole "coach in waiting" tag has been thrown around so much and never come to fruition that I'm not sure it exists. I think this hire just shows more of why our front office structure still leaves a lot to be desired. But I'll be damned if I blame Barry for that. He deserves a chance as a man to kick some ass and fix this team as he was hired to do. So this fan is going to wish him the best and hope for the best. But I certainly question if that's going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapHaszard Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Emmanual Benton @Manny_PPI 22m22 minutes ago Day 2 Senior Bowl notes from @TDavenport_PPI: http://proplayerinsiders.com/news-features-carousel/senior-bowl-north-team-day-2-standouts/ … Rick Snider @Snide_Remarks 33m33 minutes ago This should be the Redskins No.1 offseason priority. My Post Express column. http://wapo.st/15vqwYK Ryan Clark @Realrclark25 37m37 minutes ago Car pool wars have really cooled. Guess it's true. I'm the only one that knows it's a competition. You'd think they'd follow me on here. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think this hire just shows more of why our front office structure still leaves a lot to be desired. But I'll be damned if I blame Barry for that. He deserves a chance as a man to kick some ass and fix this team as he was hired to do. So this fan is going to wish him the best and hope for the best. But I certainly question if that's going to happen. If the Barry hire doesnt pan out, should our FO take the blame? I dont believe so. The head coach hires his own assistants, thats pretty common. It would be more of a problem if the FO was dictating to the HC who he could hire for his staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If the Barry hire doesnt pan out, should our FO take the blame? I dont believe so. The head coach hires his own assistants, thats pretty common. It would be more of a problem if the FO was dictating to the HC who he could hire for his staff. The FO hired Gruden. So yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If the Barry hire doesnt pan out, should our FO take the blame? I dont believe so. The head coach hires his own assistants, thats pretty common. It would be more of a problem if the FO was dictating to the HC who he could hire for his staff. Sure HCs hire their own assistants but its just as common for HCs to receive help/guidance from the GM or outright dictated to about some assistants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The FO hired Gruden. So yes. Then Bruce fails for the Gruden hire, but to also put the Barry hire on them doesnt make sense. If you hire Gruden you let him hire his own staff, who he hires doesnt reflect on the FO it reflects on Gruden. You are saying that THIS hire of Barry reflects poorly on the FO structure. You didnt say the Gruden hire reflects poorly which would more seem to be your point. Plus saying the FO also includes Scot when he hasnt made much of an impact yet as GM. Sure HCs hire their own assistants but its just as common for HCs to receive help/guidance from the GM or outright dictated to about some assistants. Sure he can receive guidance, but its his choice in the end to make. Do you want the GM to dictate who Gruden can hire? So you end up with him hiring someone he doesnt want to hire, or doesnt trust. And it would most likely hurt the relationship between the HC and the GM. The GM dictating who the HC can hire would indicate way more FO issues then letting the coach make his hire. Let him make his bed, he has to lay in it if it doesnt work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Then Bruce fails for the Gruden hire, but to also put the Barry hire on them doesnt make sense. If you hire Gruden you let him hire his own staff, who he hires doesnt reflect on the FO it reflects on Gruden. You are saying that THIS hire of Barry reflects poorly on the FO structure. You didnt say the Gruden hire reflects poorly which would more seem to be your point. Plus saying the FO also includes Scot when he hasnt made much of an impact yet as GM. Yes. This hire reflects on the FO. Why? Because the guy they hired to be the head coach hired him. If it works out, great for the FO. If it doesn't, it reflects them. I don't think this is as difficult as you're making it seem. I just told you that they hired Gruden, so it reflects on them. Yet you're saying I'm not saying that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yes. This hire reflects on the FO. Why? Because the guy they hired to be the head coach hired him. If it works out, great for the FO. If it doesn't, it reflects them. I don't think this is as difficult as you're making it seem. I just told you that they hired Gruden, so it reflects on them. Yet you're saying I'm not saying that? Indirectly it does, tho it is primarily on Gruden. That being said, his success or failure isn't on this one hire or any one move by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yes. This hire reflects on the FO. Why? Because the guy they hired to be the head coach hired him. If it works out, great for the FO. If it doesn't, it reflects them. I don't think this is as difficult as you're making it seem. I just told you that they hired Gruden, so it reflects on them. Yet you're saying I'm not saying that? Eh, maybe we are just arguing semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Indirectly it does, tho it is primarily on Gruden. That being said, his success or failure isn't on this one hire or any one move by him. I'm not sure what the heck is going on here. The FO hired Jay Gruden. Correct? Jay Gruden just hired Joe Barry. Correct? If Joe Barry fails, that's on Jay Gruden. Correct? If Jay Gruden fails, that's on the FO. Correct? If Joe Barry fails, that means that Jay Gruden's season probably didn't go so well. Correct? Where's the disconnect with what I'm saying? I honestly don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 JsteelzHttr24-7 retweeted Michael C. Wright @mikecwright · 5m5 minutes ago Heard Fangio wanted to bring Donatell to Redskins, but they wanted to keep Raheem Morris... hence Chicago. if true Scot should fire people today!!!! Unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 if true Scot should fire people today!!!! Unacceptable. I stopped following the "insiders" as they dont seem to have any inside information anymore. Multiple reports have come out saying that the tweet was not true and even that Raheem could still be let go even without Fangio coming on. I trust Keim a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would hope so. This would be another level of Tampa bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownRocks111 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Emmanual Benton @Manny_PPI 1m1 minute ago From @DashDiallo1, Day Two notes on the South Team Senior Bowl practice: http://proplayerinsiders.com/nfl-player-team-news-features/senior-bowl-south-team-practice-flashed-day-two/ … John Keim @john_keim 5m5 minutes ago NFL vet LB Jarret Johnson played for Joe Barry in SD. Here's his take on #redskins new DC http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14845/jarret-johnson-high-on-redskins-defensive-coordinator-joe-barry … Ah so that explains it. Joe Barry is teaching rocket science to middle school drop outs. He's making football way to intellectual for these jocks. That's what happened to Detroit in 2008, now we know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I stopped following the "insiders" as they dont seem to have any inside information anymore. Multiple reports have come out saying that the tweet was not true and even that Raheem could still be let go even without Fangio coming on. I trust Keim a lot more. That wasn't posted by an "insider" it was posted by a reporter for the Chicago Bears. The reporter said a coach text him and told him the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.