Rolling Stone: A Rape on Campus: A Brutal Assault and Struggle for Justice at UVA

[JamesMadisonSkins]

JMU had three of its frat students, ON TAPE, groping a black out drunk student without her consent, while she begged them to stop it. They then distributed this tape on campus. The student pushed forward the case to the administration. Their punishment was that after graduation, they could never come back to JMU. But they could graduate.

Not the school's proudest moment, but they were also in a very tough position. It happened in Florida, it wasn't reported there OR in Harrisonburg. It was reported through JMU judicial. Yes, they saw the tape ... but why is a school being put in a position to do anything there? The girl's dad was a cop and he didn't want her to go to the police ... so it's just messed up all over.

 

What can JMU really do in that scenario that doesn't open them up to a lawsuit?

 

UVA scenario would be similar if it was a one-time incident and they felt out of their place. But it's clear this is a systematic problem. And yes, it extends beyond UVA. 

 

Oh and she wasn't a JMU student at the time ... so it brought even more gray area into it. Case was a mess. 

[PeterMP]

This is why Universities should NOT be handling this. A brutal goddamn crime gets committed and nothing can be done unless the victim does it all???

That's ridiculous. A competent investigation should be able to move forward figure out what happened with or without a victim's cooperation. The University absolutely has a duty to make sure these allegations get investigated properly, the kind of spineless response you're rationalizing is unacceptable.

I'm sorry, but it shouldn't be up to the victim whether or not a brutal crime even gets investigated. It's a matter of public safety. What right to privacy do suspects and victims of crimes committed outside of a university community have?

 

Going to the police isn't doing it all.

 

Have you ever heard of a rape case going forward without the cooperation of the victim?

 

Any where?

 

And her parents could go to the police (her parents found out the same time the university did).  Rolling Stone could go to the police.

This is a really cheap cop out argument you keep making for the school. When it has been reported, the schools have done absolutely nothing.

 

JMU had three of its frat students, ON TAPE, groping a black out drunk student without her consent, while she begged them to stop it. They then distributed this tape on campus. The student pushed forward the case to the administration. Their punishment was that after graduation, they could never come back to JMU. But they could graduate.

 

Really what do you want JMU you to do that doesn't open them to a law suit?

 

Why do they have any standing to act at all?

 

On a trip in FL not associated with the university, where does the university have the right to act based on what happened on that trip?

Did people read the story?  The victim is upset that the Dean communicated her name to another college administrator.

 

And people are arguing that the university should be required, independent of the victims wishes, to tell the police.

 

What about the victims wishes?

 

You don't want a university involved.

 

Great.

 

Report it to the police.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

It just sucks that these women have to be in a position to feel either ruined or scared or any of that in general. The act of rape itself is a life-changing and traumatizing experience. To deal with that plus the pressures of a university social life ... one like the one that exists at UVA. Yikes.

[PeterMP]

Considering the JMU case, if you've graduated and even let's say you are actually convicted of actual rape, should a university have the ability/right to rescind your degree?

 

Is that something we are comfortable with?

[No Excuses]

Really what do you want JMU you to do that doesn't open them to a law suit?

 

Why do they have any standing to act at all?

 

On a trip in FL not associated with the university, where does the university have the right to act based on what happened on that trip?

Did people read the story?  The victim is upset that the Dean communicated her name to another college administrator.

 

And people are arguing that the university should be required, independent of the victims wishes, to tell the police.

 

What about the victims wishes?

 

You don't want a university involved.

 

Great.

 

Report it to the police.

 

This is the problem. You are letting schools off by saying they have no real responsibility to deal with sexual misconduct from one student to another unless law enforcement is involved. The JMU incident doesn't end at an assault off campus on spring break. If students of your school are distributing a video of them, sexually assaulting another female student, to other students on campus, that is a serious problem.

 

Perhaps under how they've structured their legal codes, JMU or UVA have no obligation to pursue their own form of academic justice by expelling students, or revoking degrees, from students who are found to have been guilty of sexual assaults by the schools sexual assault board. I don't think its a stretch to say, that this is a serious problem.

 

I would let the victims actual words say what upset her about the case BTW:

 

I was told by JMU’s judicial affairs office that the common punishment for this kind of harassment is suspension. I was told that it’s very rare for someone to get expelled. I didn’t know what to do—I didn’t want to put myself through the misery of taking action. What if I lost? But I was told, if the judicial board had the video and watched it and could tell who was in it, they’d move forward anyway. So I bought a flash drive and handed them the video. They said they’d review it.

I had a really rough summer emotionally. My grades slipped. I got free counseling at JMU, but it didn’t help.

I was venting with my dad about it a lot. He’s a police officer and he contacted JMU’s director of judicial affairs, Josh Bacon. Bacon said he couldn’t tell if what happened in the video was consensual or not. That was really discouraging. JMU had been my dream school since eighth grade. I trusted them. This is where I felt safe.

I felt I had the short end of the stick. I filed a formal complaint in January 2014. It took JMU over a month to schedule hearings. Once the process started, the guys couldn’t talk to me. If I saw them on campus, it ruined my whole day. It was affecting my whole life, but not theirs at all.

There was a separate trial with each of the three guys. I had to be in the same room during it. It was so disturbing. After the third trial, Josh Bacon said that he’d never seen a case so serious. He told me that he wanted to propose an “abnormal” idea—expulsion after graduation—because they’d just appeal any other punishment, and graduation was coming up anyway. I just started bawling when I heard that. It was not OK. Who would punish them? Who would even know if they were on campus? What if they were tailgating? Or at a reunion? I was told that I’d have to identify them and tell campus police. If they recognized them, they’d be escorted out.

But the burden to identify them was on me. I was devastated.

Bacon went ahead with the expulsion punishment anyway. I read the student handbook; this wasn’t what was supposed to happen. The judicial board had caught them in lies—one guy said he hadn’t grabbed my bikini when clearly he did on the video—it was such crap.

The guys changed their attitude when expulsion was presented. They said they’d earned their diploma and paid for it. They were embarrassed not to be able to bring their kids back to their alma mater.

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I'm not comfortable with schools being a judicial system for anything beyond on campus alcohol violations. The rest should be handled by local police ...

[No Excuses]

Here is an article discussing why both men and women are afraid of going to the police to report sexual assaults on campus.

 

http://time.com/2905637/campus-rape-assault-prosecution/

 

Considering rape is underreported just normally in society, but even more in colleges, its obvious that the social dynamics really come into play strongly. Saying "Great, go report it to the police" seems incredibly insensitive. That's not the answer to this problem. The Universities should bear some responsibility if the unique dynamics they create are playing a role in reporting/non-reporting.

[PeterMP]

This is the problem. You are letting schools off by saying they have no real responsibility to deal with sexual misconduct from one student to another unless law enforcement is involved. The JMU incident doesn't end at an assault off campus on spring break. If students of your school are distributing a video of them, sexually assaulting another female student, to other students on campus, that is a serious problem.

 

Perhaps under how they've structured their legal codes, JMU or UVA have no obligation to pursue their own form of academic justice by expelling students, or revoking degrees, from students who are found to have been guilty of sexual assaults by the schools sexual assault board. I don't think its a stretch to say, that this is a serious problem.

 

There are legal limits to what a university can do.

 

And it isn't just their legal codes, but the US legal codes.

 

Universities get sued and sometimes lose when they try and expel people.

 

The alleged perpetrator has rights that aren't just recognized by the universities, but by the US legal system.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/04/sexual-assault-expulsions-lawsuits_n_5440665.html

[No Excuses]

I'm not comfortable with schools being a judicial system for anything beyond on campus alcohol violations. The rest should be handled by local police ...

 

Schools already have sexual assault boards. This is straight from the UVA website:

 

http://www.virginia.edu/sexualviolence/sexualassault/reportingoptions/sab.html

 

• If a full hearing is recommended, both parties appear and tell their stories before a panel of 3–5 faculty, staff and/or students with a non-voting chair. Parties may also call witnesses and provide evidence on their behalf.
• Students found responsible under the Sexual Misconduct Policy are subject to disciplinary action, which can include suspension or permanent expulsion.

[PeterMP]

Here is an article discussing why both men and women are afraid of going to the police to report sexual assaults on campus.

 

http://time.com/2905637/campus-rape-assault-prosecution/

 

Considering rape is underreported just normally in society, but even more in colleges, its obvious that the social dynamics really come into play strongly. Saying "Great, go report it to the police" seems incredibly insensitive. That's not the answer to this problem. The Universities should bear some responsibility if the unique dynamics they create are playing a role in reporting/non-reporting.

 

We as a society, which includes universities, have to do more about sexual assault and how we treat victims of it.

 

But it isn't a straight forward or simple problem and saying that universities should have to report to police:

 

From your link:

 

"Victim advocates articulated fears about anything that would make the relationship between law enforcement and the schools overly formal. For the advocates, doing right by the victim often means respecting her or his wishes not to report the crime to the police and even telling the victim about the possible downsides of the criminal justice system– which can lead to a months-long process that might threaten a victim’s confidentiality. In response, law enforcement officers explained how difficult it can be to pursue criminal action when they don’t collect evidence from the victim early in the process, making it difficult for them to get repeat offenders off the streets."

 

or be responsible for carrying out justice isn't really an answer.

 

I don't think any of the things in your link are addressed by having universities have more robust punishments for rapists or carrying out their on investigations independent of the victims wishes.

 

Do you?

[No Excuses]

There are legal limits to what a university can do.

 

And it isn't just their legal codes, but the US legal codes.

 

Universities get sued and sometimes lose when they try and expel people.

 

The alleged perpetrator has rights that aren't just recognized by the universities, but by the US legal system.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/04/sexual-assault-expulsions-lawsuits_n_5440665.html

 

Lawsuit against an expulsion like that isn't the least bit surprising. This only holds significance if the student at Duke is successfully able to have his punishment revoked.

 

We as a society, which includes universities, have to do more about sexual assault and how we treat victims of it.

 

But it isn't a straight forward or simple problem and saying that universities should have to report to police:

 

or be responsible for carrying out justice isn't really an answer.

 

I don't think any of the things in your link are addressed by having universities have more robust punishments for rapists or carrying out their on investigations independent of the victims wishes.

 

Do you?

 

The point of the article is to highlight that we can't look at campus rape similar to how we look at rape normally. Schools have a unique social dynamic not only in the reasons why campus rape happens, but why it goes underreported.

 

Schools already have sexual misconduct policies in place, with fairly clear punishments if found guilty by the schools sexual assault board. The mechanism for punishment exists. IF the victim chooses not to pursue action through the university or the campus PD, then fine. But it seems that students often do actually go to the university for help instead of the PD. Its fairly obvious that any kind of solution to this problem involves an active role for the University if a student is coming forward to them first.

[PeterMP]

Lawsuit against an expulsion like that isn't the least bit surprising. This only holds significance if the student at Duke is successfully able to have his punishment revoked.

 

The point of the article is to highlight that we can't look at campus rape similar to how we look at rape normally. Schools have a unique social dynamic not only in the reasons why campus rape happens, but why it goes underreported.

 

Schools already have sexual misconduct policies in place, with fairly clear punishments if found guilty by the schools sexual assault board. The mechanism for punishment exists. IF the victim chooses not to pursue action through the university or the campus PD, then fine. But it seems that students often do actually go to the university for help instead of the PD. Its fairly obvious that any kind of solution to this problem involves an active role for the University if a student is coming forward to them first.

 

There are cases that Universities have already lost.

 

Holly Cross lost a case and was required to allow an expelled student back in.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/11/wrongfully-guilty-men-fire-lawsuits-at-universities-after-campus-rape-rulings/

 

I know of another place where the university was sued for millions of dollars and lost.

 

Whether the Duke process is going to have been considered robust enough is yet unclear, but it is clear the alleged perpetrators have rights, and it isn't at all clear whether the university processes are robust enough to support things like expulsion over things like sexual assault based on their rights.

 

One issue with respect to expulsion is that isn't necessarily equitable.  Expelling a freshmen is not the same punishment realistically as expelling a 2nd semester senior.  Nobody would support putting a person in jail for 10 years for a crime and somebody else for 20 for identical crimes.

 

I don't disagree about anything in the piece you posted, but two things are missing from the piece you posted:

 

1.  Any idea that the university should have a mandatory reporting policy, which people here have been arguing for and I've been saying shouldn't be the case.

 

2.  That universities should have robust processes for dealing with rape and/or sexual assault to the point that they can legally support expulsions when challenged in courts.

 

Your link doesn't support the arguments that people are making here.

 

A much better option is for the police and the actual justice system to get involved, which is why your piece focuses on communication and efforts between the police and universities and the police and rape victims.

[ixcuincle]

Uni justice is a joke. Cops def should be involved and those accused must be held accountable for thir actions

[GoSkins0721]

Looks like the RS article caught the attention of Va officials

 

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/local/education/i-m-inclined-to-believe-her-u-va-employee-says/article_136d903c-feb3-5048-9613-72e17d5273ed.html

 

I'm kind of surprised by this comment. I wonder if the  "many details" from the article that had not been previously disclosed to the university are related to the "Jackie" incident?  

 

"U.Va. President Teresa Sullivan said she had asked the Charlottesville Police Department “to formally investigate the incident.” In a message to the university community, Sullivan said “many details” in the article had not previously been disclosed to university officials, but she said she was limited in what she can say because of federal and state privacy laws “and out of respect for sexual assault survivors.”

 

Also, from the same article, the frat mentioned in the article: 

 

"The chapter announced Thursday that it had voluntarily suspended all operations — hours after its fraternity house was vandalized."

[Destino]

Seems like a lot of rapists get away because no one wants to tell victims that they should go to the police, for risk of being insensitive. I'm sure setting up weaker pseudo justice systems on college campuses to provide college kids with their own special options, furthering the wrong minded notion that college is somehow separate from the world at large and subject to different laws, will serve society well. What could go wrong?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Rape is a terrible crime to commit, but we also need to be sensitive to both sides. In this UVA case, it's pretty clear that this was an orchestrated and thought-out effort to create serial rapes. But there are probably a lot of instances of "he said" "she said" and day-after regrets, and there is a LOT of gray area there. That's where universities get in trouble. n instances where there might not be any evidence outside of he said she said.

[balki1867]

Seems like a lot of rapists get away because no one wants to tell victims that they should go to the police, for risk of being insensitive. I'm sure setting up weaker pseudo justice systems on college campuses to provide college kids with their own special options, furthering the wrong minded notion that college is somehow separate from the world at large and subject to different laws, will serve society well. What could go wrong?

 

None of the articles do a good job discussing it, but the 'alternate' justice systems don't exist for the purposes you suggest.  They are created because its required by Title IX that schools address any systematic issues that prevent one gender from having access to education as the other (the heightened risk of sexual violence counts as one of these issues).  Its not a replacement for the actual justice system, although schools have conveniently figured out that they can use it to discourage girls from making formal police reports because they're handling it "in house."

[mcsluggo]

Rape is a terrible crime to commit, but we also need to be sensitive to both sides. In this UVA case, it's pretty clear that this was an orchestrated and thought-out effort to create serial rapes. But there are probably a lot of instances of "he said" "she said" and day-after regrets, and there is a LOT of gray area there. That's where universities get in trouble. n instances where there might not be any evidence outside of he said she said.

 

that is a problem in the court of public opinion... but i assume that you would have a hard time convicting of a crime in a he said/she said scenario without any additional corroborating evidence

[JoeWolf990]

In fact with all the awareness and publicity (I remember the Yale crisis a few yearsback) it's STILL going on.

 

It's just mind numbing how sexual assault is STILL so prevalent in this day and age. It has to stop.

10 years of proper awareness doesnt remove thousands of years of these actions

[No Excuses]

None of the articles do a good job discussing it, but the 'alternate' justice systems don't exist for the purposes you suggest.  They are created because its required by Title IX that schools address any systematic issues that prevent one gender from having access to education as the other (the heightened risk of sexual violence counts as one of these issues).  Its not a replacement for the actual justice system, although schools have conveniently figured out that they can use it to discourage girls from making formal police reports because they're handling it "in house."

 

They also provide anonymity for students from what I've read, which isn't available if they go to the police. Which is where the real problem lies. Schools are enacting systems that on surface seem like a good option for sexual assault victims in school to remain anonymous but still voice their complaints. But what these judiciary boards are accomplishing doesn't seem to be much of anything.

[Redskin-All-In]

I'm still trying to decide if the culture is equally bad at many colleges & universities, and that my daughters need to be careful wherever they go, or if UVA is particularly ****ed up beyond repair.  Any evidence one way or another?

 

UVA also had the fiasco 2 years ago where the board fired the (current) President, then said "never mind" after the public outcry.  I'm wondering WTH is going on over there.  Matters a lot to my family, since my daughters will be applying to schools before too long, and UVA had been planned as a major target.  Now I don't know...

[Destino]

They also provide anonymity for students from what I've read, which isn't available if they go to the police. Which is where the real problem lies. Schools are enacting systems that on surface seem like a good option for sexual assault victims in school to remain anonymous but still voice their complaints. But what these judiciary boards are accomplishing doesn't seem to be much of anything.

A good option for what exactly? To punish rape with a school suspension or expulsion? What's next punishing on campus murder with having to write a paper and work at the coffee hut Friday and Saturday nights? Oh no there goes their social life!

[Destino]

None of the articles do a good job discussing it, but the 'alternate' justice systems don't exist for the purposes you suggest.  They are created because its required by Title IX that schools address any systematic issues that prevent one gender from having access to education as the other (the heightened risk of sexual violence counts as one of these issues).  Its not a replacement for the actual justice system, although schools have conveniently figured out that they can use it to discourage girls from making formal police reports because they're handling it "in house."

 

I understand why it exists but I think we need to accept that the unintended consequences are bad and that college leadership can't be trusted to act in the best interest of victims of serious crimes.  It's time to cut them out of the loop. 

[Corcaigh]

I'm still trying to decide if the culture is equally bad at many colleges & universities, and that my daughters need to be careful wherever they go, or if UVA is particularly ****ed up beyond repair.  Any evidence one way or another?

 

UVA also had the fiasco 2 years ago where the board fired the (current) President, then said "never mind" after the public outcry.  I'm wondering WTH is going on over there.  Matters a lot to my family, since my daughters will be applying to schools before too long, and UVA had been planned as a major target.  Now I don't know...

 

UVa has a strong party and 'hookup' culture. It also has a lot of wealthy and entitled kids for a state school. The combination made my kid shy away from it, but plenty of others I know haven't had issues.

[Predicto]

Rape is a terrible crime to commit, but we also need to be sensitive to both sides. In this UVA case, it's pretty clear that this was an orchestrated and thought-out effort to create serial rapes. But there are probably a lot of instances of "he said" "she said" and day-after regrets, and there is a LOT of gray area there. That's where universities get in trouble. n instances where there might not be any evidence outside of he said she said.

 

 

It is so much easier for the "he said she said lack of other evidence" problem to fester when the alleged crime happens in a frat house - where all the members are under tremendous social pressure not to hear anything, much less snitch on their brothers.

 

In a dorm or apartment where everyone isn't a bro in the same secret club, suddenly witnesses next door or down the hall might hear when someone is crying or begging for it to stop.   No one guards the door to make sure that outsiders don't come in.  People don't get together afterwords "to get their stories straight."

 

Again, I don't think this is a UVa problem.  This is a frat and bro culture problem.