Kirk Cousins and RGIII: The Realization

[mistertim]

What I find truly amazing is some of you RG3 fans are just waiting until Cousins has a game where he throws 4 picks and has a bad game so you can immediately pull the plug, point the finger and say "see!  I told you so!  Cousins is crap".  It's inevitable that it will come because every QB has bad games, but this one will be extra special for you guys.   

 

Week 5 is your week isn't it.  When we play against Seattle and it will be a "true test" of Cousins, won't it? 

Jesus you're being whiny.

 

People have given Cousins tons of credit for playing really well for most of the game. Nobody is looking for him to fail; I was loving watching him play, especially in the first half. Just because people have noted that he didn't play well at the end and that his play dropped off a bit in the second half doesn't mean they hate the guy or want him to fail. 

[joejccva71]

Jesus you're being whiny.

 

People have given Cousins tons of credit for playing really well for most of the game. Nobody is looking for him to fail; I was loving watching him play, especially in the first half. Just because people have noted that he didn't play well at the end and that his play dropped off a bit in the second half doesn't mean they hate the guy or want him to fail. 

 

Actually you should probably go back and read some of the posts here, like this one:

 

 

He's a game manager, I don't care about his stats. Chad Pennington had great stats but he sucked, he never won anything, I'm not even sure he ever made it to the playoffs. Kirk is good enough to win games when you have an elite defense and a good running game, good special teams. But in that case ANY QB wins games. So basically he's just a career backup. Let's hope we win enough games so that once RG3 returns we're still in the playoff race, then Kirk can head back to the bench and we might be able to actually do something this year. Kirk has proven over and over again that unless this team is ahead, when he's under pressure, he just flat out sucks, he makes mistakes and loses the game. Just another Alex Smith, Trent Dilfer etc.

 

[ncr2h]

Jesus you're being whiny.

 

People have given Cousins tons of credit for playing really well for most of the game. Nobody is looking for him to fail; I was loving watching him play, especially in the first half. Just because people have noted that he didn't play well at the end and that his play dropped off a bit in the second half doesn't mean they hate the guy or want him to fail. 

 

I liked his 2nd half too.  The 81 yard bomb to Jackson, which hit Jackson in stride allowing him to pick up YAC, was one of the longest passing plays in Redskins history.  The 55 yard screen pass to Helu was a thing of beauty as well - with pressure coming directly in his face, Cousins was forced to release that pass before Helu even turned his head for the ball.  That's a sack with RG3 at QB.  It's a 55 yard completion with Cousins.  But that 43 yard bomb to Garcon down the left sideline may have been his best pass of the day.  Garcon had literally 1 step on his defender, and Cousins dropped the ball in there right before the safety could come over and make a play.  Perfect throw, perfect catch.

 

Great all around game from Cousins.  It wasn't perfect, but it was still one of the best games by a Redskins QB in over 20 years.  Wrap your mind around that.

[Captain James]

If we continue to play the way we are on offense, and special teams shape up even in the slightest (like not giving up a touchdown whatsoever), I can see us beating Philly at home and sweeping the rest of the division games. We can go 11-5 this season if things run smoothly. This obviously hangs on us winning the "winnable" games. I have us losing (I know, loser mentality) the games against seattle, san fran, and indy.

[KingGibbs]

Ahh. Another "I know you are, but what am I thread."

[RedskinsAAFJ]

I hope Kirk is not a Rex Grossman in the making.

 

A guy who plays extremely well then can't hit his receivers on key downs.

 

Philly and our defense tried their best to help him out but no cigar.

 

He needs to win more than two games before being compared to any winning Quarterback.

Wow man for real? Rex was a bus driver... cousins is a true qb. He can make any throw and can run when he needs to maybe no like rg3 but still, he can get it done yo. Plus cousins can handle the pressure even tho he threw that int, Rex folded everytime man for real. I'm telling you Cousins is the truth, but saying he is like Rex? C'mon son lol.

 

which brings me to this: what do we do when rg3 come back? I doubt we can trade him and we gave up to much to get him so what do we do? thats what I want to know.

[Sticksboi05]

Ahh. Another "I know you are, but what am I thread."

 

Excellent analysis, great addition that we can continue on.

[Taylor703]

Like what? romoSUCKS has made his name with his movement behind the LOS. He's super slippery. That's his thing. Cousins doesn't do any of that. He's got better straight-line speed, but he's not going to spin out of a free blitzer's grasp at the last second. Not yet, at least.

 

I mean, honestly... what are the similarities? Their build? romoSUCKS is 6'2, 230 lbs. Cousins is 6'3 214 lbs.  Cousins ran a 4.8 at the combine, romoSUCKS a 5.01.

 

So they're not very similar in terms of build. And I don't see the similarities in the way they play at all. What do you see, I'm honestly wondering? I guess they both have a quick release, but I'd say romoSUCKS's is faster, right? What else am I missing?  

 

He's his cousin.

They both can improvise quite well on the fly, very quick releases, tremendous field vision, deceptively strong arms, play well in the pocket etc. There are similarities between the two players that I see. I never asked anyone to agree with me. It's simply my opinion based off of what Ive seen.

[TSO]

They both can improvise quite well on the fly, very quick releases, tremendous field vision, deceptively strong arms, play well in the pocket etc. There are similarities between the two players that I see. I never asked anyone to agree with me. It's simply my opinion based off of what Ive seen.

I'd disagree with the improvising part, Romo extends plays way better than Kirk does, but who knows, it's something Kirk might get good at. As for the other attributes, I can see where you're coming from but the same can be said for a lot of QBs. Heck, Tom Brady, Manning and Brees all have "very quick releases, tremendous field vision, deceptively strong arms and play well in the pocket", right?

My issue is that we too often compare for the sake of comparison and it's super lazy to me. But if you want to keep comparing him to Romo, by all means, go ahead. I'm sorry if I annoyed you about it.

[RiverboatGambler]

I guess we don't need to hear about how an OL built with ZBS in mind can't pass protect.  Amazing what happens when the QB gets rid of the ball.

Lets see that vs a real pass rush for 4 quarters before we make any proclamations.

I liked his 2nd half too.  The 81 yard bomb to Jackson, which hit Jackson in stride allowing him to pick up YAC, was one of the longest passing plays in Redskins history.  The 55 yard screen pass to Helu was a thing of beauty as well - with pressure coming directly in his face, Cousins was forced to release that pass before Helu even turned his head for the ball.  That's a sack with RG3 at QB.  It's a 55 yard completion with Cousins.  But that 43 yard bomb to Garcon down the left sideline may have been his best pass of the day.  Garcon had literally 1 step on his defender, and Cousins dropped the ball in there right before the safety could come over and make a play.  Perfect throw, perfect catch.

 

Great all around game from Cousins.  It wasn't perfect, but it was still one of the best games by a Redskins QB in over 20 years.  Wrap your mind around that.

You forgot the Dallas and Philly 2012 Thanksgiving week  games  already?

[No_Pressure]

I hate the "on track for" statistical bull****, especially with a small sampling of games, but Kirk Cousins has played in two games and if he plays every week like this he'll end up over 5,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. Of course that won't happen, but the point is that so far this guy has been amazing. When your quarterback throws for 430 yards and 3 TDs with 1 INT, you are supposed to win. It doesn't matter who you're playing, when that happens on offense you are supposed to win.

 

The Redskins lost as a team yesterday. There were at least 7 occasions where, had we reacted differently, not dropped interceptions of our own, not dropped passes that hit receivers in the hands, been able to cover anyone, gotten to the QB faster, we could have sealed the deal or caused a major momentum change. In almost all cases we missed our opportunities. The Eagles are a good football team, but in my opinion, so are we. We're better than our 1-2 record, but nobody cares about that if you continue to **** up your opportunities. We have the talent to be a 10-6, 11-5 playoff team and division winner. If we don't get our **** in gear we're going to be a 7-9 team.

 

I also would like to point out that Kirk Cousins looks as comfortable in the pocket as a fat guy who just ate a whole large pizza lounging around in his la-z-boy recliner. The read progressions were a thing of beauty. He knows how to find an open man, yes, but he also showed he knows how to anticipate players coming open, something that personally I've never seen out of a Redskins quarterback ever.

 

This isn't a comparison to RG3, their games are different, but I'm saying that Kirk Cousins looks great, and as Redskins fans whether we like RG3 or not we should all be happy about that because it means our chances of winning are that much better if we can just take advantage of the opportunities to shut the ****ing door on opponents.

[justice98]

Lets see that vs a real pass rush for 4 quarters before we make any proclamations.

 

 

Compare apples to apples against this same Philly pass rush last year, which returned essentially the same personnel.  Even their weak pass rush did a number on us, with 7 sacks in 2 games.  

[Shanahan's Tan]

Well the Redskins QB position is one of the more scrutinized in all of sports, there is plenty of reason why there is so much controversy and back and forth. 

 

When you draft 2 QBs in the same draft - controversy.

When you invest a ton in one of them - controversy.

When the second one is playing better - controvery.

When the "starter" is has two serioous injuries - controversy.

When you have a new HC who didn't draft either one - controversy.

 

The reality is whenever you are trying to find your lont term answer at QB, no matter what team, there will be controvery.  Even teams with "franchise" QBs have controversy like the Cowboys.  But the unique situation the Redskins have on their hands is a recipe for nothing but controvery until one of them can overwhelming prove their worth and the other is gone.  And even then, their will be a segment of the fanbase who won't ever be on board unless they are winning multiple Super Bowls.

[Taco Bell]

If you're meaning that singularly "right now", as in while Griffin is physically unable to actually go onto a football field and play, that Cousin gives us a better chane to win than Griffin...yes, that is fact.

The way you phrased your original comment it seemed you weren't speaking of simply "right now" but in general, including when Griffin comes back (Since you specifically brought up Griffin coming back).

Once Griffin has recovered fully from injury then it goes back to being an opinion and one where there are legitimate arguments and factual information backing up peoples opinions on both sides of that debate.

 

I really don't think so...anyone who said that KC is better than RG3 right now, as in, a very reasonable and fair statement that you can say at the smallest goes 4-5-6 games into the future of both guys being equally healthy, is clearly correct.  Pretending like that is up for "debate" when we are discussing short term play is just... well...

 

"Good for you!" as I say it in Ron Livingston's voice from Office Space, I probably look up in the air quizzically and then nod my head in serene affirmation that I'm glad to be on my side of things.

 

RG3 leaves us in massive holes with his play currently where we don't even have a shot to win any meaningful game the last 2 years. If RG3's arm strength is so lethal, how come he doesn't throw it downfield with as much success as Cousins showed?  I mean, RG3's greatest "trait" is his deep ball. Against the texans he was only able to throw sideline tosses with consistency.  Well, looks like Cousins has timing down to make up for his "string bean arm" to get it to Desean.

 

RG3's arm strength is so good that he should be able to make nice intermediate passes with consistency regardless of his current inability to recognize what is open vs. not open in anything remotely tight coverage that requires more than 1 prior read, I mean, they should just get there somehow some way right?.

 

No reasonable "anti-griffin" person disputes that Griff is a great athlete, but that doesn't mean he has enough development as a QB to be considered a better option than KC is, right now.  Cousins can throw to spots, look opposite field, manipulate safeties (not great, but shows he has the mental capacity to using the D to his advantage) bla bla bla bla bla. 

 

Absurd, it's just absurd, RG3 struggles to read defenses, doesn't show basic and/or consistent mechanics in the pocket, his mobility this year has led to either bad hits (preseason helicopter hit this year) or injuries tbh, and we are still pretending like that is up for debate.

 

Let's argue about "long term" at this point, short term makes me just want to retire from typing FOREVER!

 

I'm not really against the quotee, just the topic, it's still going around like the flu around here.  I got my flu shot though. 

 

This isn't the NFL from even 5 years ago where a scrambler can do enough with his legs to make up for simple bread and butter Offense that's there for the taking if you have the QB to handle basic defensive reading.  The whole point the NFL has for changing rules is to make it so QBs stay healthy, so the rules are just more and more obvious.  You're simply better off having a qb that can handle basic NFL level skill than you are a guy that struggles at the expense of being able to "extend" plays.  It doesn't seem like rocket science to me, but hey I'm not a rocket scientist.

 

Foles Luck and WIlson clearly look to have a brighter future ahead than Kaep, Cam, and RG3.

 

I know it gets read deeper into having a V for Vendetta against RG3, but honestly it's just that some people's eye tests have come to the conclusion that his development looks up in the air at this point as opposed to "inevitable" which is how I thought after Baylor and Seahawks playoff game.

 

Cousins clearly has played well enough after the 1.5 games to retain the job on his own if he sustains a reasonable level.  Tough games against Giants Hawks and Cards could leave us 1-5/2-4 ( tried editing this 4 times now) , but then there are a few softer games right around when RG3 is due back.   I hope they don't base this on record because the Cards and Hawks (and Eagles) are probably the top 3 teams in the NFC, and Cousins gets the privilege to go against all 3 of them.  Why are they all bird teams, nauseating.

[Brokenstriker]

in tune with the OP ... I think its reality pretty much everywhere.  Team wins and most of the time everyone loves or at least likes the QB.  There's always the Grossman Bears type of exceptions but nothins is always always.  Teams lose and most folks can't find much love for the QB.  One guy plays playground football and gets the win and he's anointed a future hall of famer ... gets the loss and he's a no talent prima donna wasting his physical gifts.  Another guy plays a text book outstanding game and gets the loss and he's still unproven and just a game manager.  If he gets the win he's anointed a future hall of famer.  Sure its hell to be the QB on the Redskins ... now.  I'm pretty sure it was freaking awesome in '72, '82, '83 ... and '91

[Hail4Life]

Kirk played great and anyone who thinks otherwise just because he threw an interception doesn't know what they are talking about.  We are lucky to have two good QB's on this roster.  Just let things play out and hope that the best man wins the job so we can start changing the losing culture around here!  By the way, special teams cost us 10 points in this game.  The Philly KR TD and Forbaths missed 33 yarder were the difference in the game.  QB is not an issue but special teams still are (although they have improved).

[roanoker]

The op uses a broad brush to paint posters. KC played good yesterday; he has an opportunity to do the team and himself proud.  Nonetheless, when the dust settles and smoke clears, the bottomline is Ws and Ls.

[Taco Bell]

The op uses a broad brush to paint posters. KC played good yesterday; he has an opportunity to do the team and himself proud.  Nonetheless, when the dust settles and smoke clears, the bottomline is Ws and Ls.

 

Except when RG3 is "developing" to some posters apparently, which is why the double standard remains odd and why this will perpetuate.  He can lose a game 6-17 and it's fine because he went 78% completion%, but Cousins can lose a game 34-37 and he made inexcusable throws.

[Taylor703]

Except when RG3 is "developing" to some posters apparently, which is why the double standard remains odd and why this will perpetuate.  He can lose a game 6-17 and it's fine because he went 78% completion%, but Cousins can lose a game 34-37 and he made inexcusable throws.

It's quite possible both are developing. No need to trash one to prop up the other.

[jtown]

The op uses a broad brush to paint posters. KC played good yesterday; he has an opportunity to do the team and himself proud.  Nonetheless, when the dust settles and smoke clears, the bottomline is Ws and Ls.

 

No its not.  Cousins is 1 player and his play does not determine a win or a loss.  His game yesterday was better than 99.8 percent of all games quarterbacks have ever played.  ANd he lost.  

 

Now people are saying he played well but he couldn't win.  I dont buy that.  If  u expect ur qb to do everything to win then ur gonna be disappointed.  

[Koolblue13]

It's quite possible both are developing. No need to trash one to prop up the other.

Cousins is the next Thom Brady. Can Robert play STs?

[RiverboatGambler]

Compare apples to apples against this same Philly pass rush last year, which returned essentially the same personnel.  Even their weak pass rush did a number on us, with 7 sacks in 2 games.  

Lets wait until we see a real pass rush for 4 quarters this season. Do you disagree?

[Taylor703]

Cousins is the next Thom Brady. Can Robert play STs?

It's quite possible he could kick the ball to the back of the end zone lol

[JG2004]

People forget - he missed a couple of games in 2012 but could have played the entire season last year but got benched.  Nearly 2 full seasons.  I kind of hope he does get traded....send him back to Texas we'd LOVE to have him.

[Gamebreaker]

I like pizza....