Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Come on, I'll even be nice to you starting the very next post if you just admit that I was asking for something specific for a logical and fair reason. 

You asked for it because you were too disinterested to do the work yourself. 

[RED06]

You would assume a pro-Cousins story was made up even if you could see Gruden's lips moving. Why automatically assume this is a made up statement? Take off your blinkers occasionally, please?!

See man, here you go again. You will not quit will you. See I let you off the hook the last time because I was accused of trolling you. All I will say to you is take your own advice and asked a question before you throw statements out there. Especially if you're not comprehending what is really being said.

 

And more important than that NO ONE has EVER seen Gruden say he thinks Kirk Cousins is the best fit for his system. Not even YOU. You NEVER saw Grudens lips moving and said that.

[Taco Bell]

You asked for it because you were too disinterested to do the work yourself. 

 

You do realize you are just "answering" my question that Cousins is better right now, right?  I mean, I took into account answers like these as indirect admissions that he can't handle complex reads like that consistently yet.

[RED06]

I'd say if we get multiple chances to win with ample time left in the game and Kirk comes up snake eyes every time that a change would be made.

I definitely agree with you here man.

[Brokenstriker]

Your eyes are reading a stat line. 400 yds and 3 TDs make him a better QB? I still don't think it clear whether he is better than RG3 or not.

Griff gave us a division title. Until Kirk can do the same or better, I can't believe there is validity to your statement that Kirk is better.

so many things have changed .... that Division Title was given to us by RGIII V1.1 (repaired ACL).  The lost playoff game was given to us by RGIII V2.0 (torn LCL and degraded ACL repair) ... the complete and unmitigated failure of a season in 2013 was given to us by RGIII V3.0 (repaired LCL, re-repaired ACL).  In any case much is still to be seen before we will know just how good or bad Kirk is.  But a straight up comparison to RGIII V1.1 isn't very relevant considering that RGIII V1.1 doesn't exist any more.  Is Kirk better than RGIII V4.0 (repaired LCL, re-repaired ACL, unrepaired stetched/loose ankle ligaments) is a good question and we need more information ... not just about Kirk but also RGIII.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

You do realize you are just "answering" my question that Cousins is better right now, right?  I mean, I took into account answers like these as indirect admissions that he can't handle complex reads like that consistently yet.

Yes, me claiming your a jackass for demanding people on a message board who don't know you do your film work for you and you moving the goalposts is proof that Cousins is a better QB and Griffin can't handle complex reads.

I like your style.

[RED06]

Some great points this afternoon. Of course it may not come down to who is the "better QB", but who Gruden prefers to run his offence. As today's article implied, that might well be Cousins. I don't know anything about blocking assignments and the like but if he sets his schemes up in a certain way and wants a QB to do (more or less) exactly what he says then at this point in time (and possibly well into the future ) Cousins may be that man.

This is what I responded too. Basically I will put it in plain simple english for you so you're not confused.

 

You can't trust everything that "these secret sources" write! That's all......................

 

The only problem with that is when hear people this, they present it as Gruden "said" it. And a lot of times those are made up statements based on what the person reporting it believes or rumor they want to start.

 

That what this (my statement) meant. Now I am typing on a droid phone so.........

[Mr. Sinister]

ROFL

/Thread

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

ROFL

/Thread

Pretty much, I'm definitely an idiot for still being here. I don't know why I'd engage with Taco Bell, it always makes me sick.

[RED06]

You would assume a pro-Cousins story was made up even if you could see Gruden's lips moving. Why automatically assume this is a made up statement? Take off your blinkers occasionally, please?!

That's why you should stop responding with statements like this ^^^^^^^

Pretty much, I'm definitely an idiot for still being here. I don't know why I'd engage with Taco Bell, it always makes me sick.

ROTFLMBO man you made me choke on my food LOLOLOL!

[SkinsFTW]

I relate pocket passing and running the offense more efficiently as being a more "pure" football player. RGIII is a more pure athlete. But if athletic was all you needed to be to play in the NFL we would have seen Usain Bolt at wide out.

 

Michael Jordan played point guard one season for 1/2 the year and was the best in the league but they don't tackle in basketball and RG3 already has some spokes broken off his wheels. RG3 needs to learn like Steve Young did but alot faster. Nobody is going to wait 7-8 years for him to get it.

[TSO]

I get your frustration at people responding to people who are trashing Griffin for the purpose of propping up Cousins. I get your frustration with people being overly critical against Cousins, a response I personally think is bred IN PART out of the issue I just spoke of. What I didn't get though, and what spurred my point, was the seeming focus on you of cricitizing only one side of an equation that has two sides which are both fueling the other.

 

I guess, in the end, I just think the main focus right now should be Cousins and we should ignore the rest of the crap that gets slung. So when someone trashes Griffin when mentioning how Cousins is playing, whatever. Just point and laugh, lol. When someone trashes Cousins or overly focuses on his negatives because they don't like how Griffin is getting put down... to me, that's worse because Cousins is the guy right now. He just is. In order to do that, you're forcing yourself to essentially put down the guy starting for the Redskins right now. 

 

So, yeah, I am focused more on one side of the equation. I hope I've explained why a little bit better. I don't think things should necessarily be equal right now in terms of focus. The discussion should revolve around Cousins, be relative to how well he's played while constructively criticizing him with the hope he improves, and anyone who puts Griffin down or bashes him while doing that should simply be ignored. That's it.

 

But, maybe I'm being naive, lol. I get what you're saying, it's the reality of fandom.   

[elkabong82]

Some of you Cousins haters are getting RIDICULOUS. I don't think you even realize the amount of cognitive dissonance you're engaging in. If RG3 had this game against the Eagles and lost you guys would be tripping over yourselves to anoint him the starter for the decade. I see so many people on social media picking at Cousins for the few mistakes he made but god forbid anyone criticize RG3 after that mediocre first game and last season

. Yes because RG3 doesn't have haters even on this board and in this thread that would have bashed him over the stuff some are with Cousins lol. BOTH QBs get hate thrown their way. Let's not pretend only one does. Both are good IMO and cousins coming up short there is some legit criticism but overall he had a very good game. He is good so is rg3 and I'll root for either so long as they play for us. I wish more had that attitude.

[SkinsFTW]

so many things have changed .... that Division Title was given to us by RGIII V1.1 (repaired ACL).  The lost playoff game was given to us by RGIII V2.0 (torn LCL and degraded ACL repair) ... the complete and unmitigated failure of a season in 2013 was given to us by RGIII V3.0 (repaired LCL, re-repaired ACL).  In any case much is still to be seen before we will know just how good or bad Kirk is.  But a straight up comparison to RGIII V1.1 isn't very relevant considering that RGIII V1.1 doesn't exist any more.  Is Kirk better than RGIII V4.0 (repaired LCL, re-repaired ACL, unrepaired stetched/loose ankle ligaments) is a good question and we need more information ... not just about Kirk but also RGIII.

 

Can we skip Vista, Me, and get right to 7.0?

 

Personally, I'm just going to be grateful that we appear to have 2 good, young QBs. And hope that helps the team win games.

 

What is sad is that between these 2 great young QB's we've lost to everybody except Jacksonville in the last 11 games.

[Taco Bell]

Yes, me claiming your a jackass for demanding people on a message board who don't know you do your film work for you and you moving the goalposts is proof that Cousins is a better QB and Griffin can't handle complex reads.

I like your style.

 

Lol, I seriously didn't move the goalposts either though.  I asked for a play that had reads which were on opposite sides of the field, as well as an anticipatory route, meaning that after doing a few quick reads he had to trust where the ball was going to fly out once he turned opposite field.  It clearly relied on some recognition pre-snap, and again, RG3's footwork is inconsistent when in the pocket so seeing an extremely mechanical looking play from a footwork perspective was interesting to see.

 

I said it would probably have had to have been a play where he looked right or left, and then had to throw either a corner route, maybe a skinny post depending on if that was far enough out of his vision to not be in his peripherals at all, or an out.  Preferably anticipatory, but like Cali's, showing to hold up throwing the ball to Helu in the flat because he was having trouble getting to the route was still good to see.  But like I said, I never said RG3 was a bad decision maker either when he's confident in an offense, that's why he won rookie of the year, he runs offenses he can handle to a T. He may very well be a better decision maker than cousins, assuming in a vacuum they are running an offense they trust and there aren't long term injury concerns.  It's that his "decision making" devolves the more complicated the offense seems to get, as well as the way defenses play him.  I'm really here for football discussion, I am literally asking because it's better than arguing the same points over and over.  We are overcomplicating this.

 

In reality, any play that RG3 can execute from a read/presnap/ non athletic based standpoint, which Cousins couldn't, would help this discussion, that was just an example cousins play that I remembered.  This wasn't the holy grail or rosebud that we needed to solve here.  I REALLY am trying to make something positive of this discussion. lol 

 

When I say non athletic standpoint, I mean legs, not arm strength.  Arm strength is fair game.  Running 80 yards for a TD like the minnesota game is obviously not what I am looking for.  We know he can do that and take that into account that running is a lethal part of either R/O or just extreme scrambling ability.  Let's be reasonable.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

Refraining from the name calling and side choosing, I had another thought.

 

I'm going to make an assumption that at the beginning of the Jax game, we saw Griffin run the ball a couple times, and he picked up 10 yards a pop while doing it.  He also hit DJax deep, in stride (Should have been a catch),  and he completed a high percentage against Houston, so I'm thinking he's able to throw the ball a little.  So, while he might not be as comfortable operating out of a traditional pocket, I'm going to go ahead and assume, based on what I saw, that he can be effective.

 

The situation is at the Eagles 41, 2:21 to go in the game, 3 TOs + the 2 min warning.  

 

If you were the Eagles defense, which guy would terrify you more?  Cousins or a healthy, willing to run, Griffin?

 

The answer, if you're being honest, is Griffin.  Because if he goes back there in the Pistol, maybe with Helu behind him, DJax, Garcon, Roberts and Niles Paul split out wide, the defense, which 1st has to defend about 10 yards for a FG try to tie the game, ans second the TD to win the game, now has to account for all 11 players on offense with the ball in their hands. It changes the way the Eagles have to defend, because they HAVE to respect Griffin's ability to run with the ball, which means it takes additional people out of coverage.

 

That's why the 'Skins gave up 2 additional 1sts and a second to get him. Because he has that type of defense changing athletic ability.  And that's why he's going to get every opportunity in the world to win the job back, and get the starting job back. And they'll give him extra time to learn the system, which Cousins is already comfortable in, because if you could somehow combine the level of comfort Cousins has right now in the offense with Griffin's ability to force defenses to defend differently, you've got ... well, you've got what they wanted when they gave up all of those picks.

 

Is it going to work? No idea.  Is Griffin going to be the same physically after 2 knee reconstructions and a dislocated ankle? Again, no idea.  Can he actually get as comfortable in this system over the next year as Cousins is?  Really don't know.  

 

But I think the organization is going to take a slightly longer termed view of this.  If they believe that:

1. Griffin can stay healthy, and his injuries are just freak accidents

2. He can develop as a pure passer like Cousins has

3. He's got all of his explosiveness and speed back

 

then they're going to give him every single opportunity to develop, even if that's longer than fans will want to give him.  Because he can change the game in ways that not many other QBs can. 

 

If they don't believe that, then they have a really good guy in Cousins to step in. It's win-win.   

 

I also really like what Cousins did last week, especially in the first half.  Quick with the ball, decisive, accurate, showed good arm strength.  Good leader.  Really good, solid QB, and for having only 5 starts, and really only on his second meaningful start, I thought he did fantastic.  They had the opportunity to win the game at the end, couldn't do it.  Didn't play great at the end, but for a guy on the road in his 5th start, it's understandable.  I don't expect him to be Joe Montana in 5 starts. It took Montnana sever seasons to become Montana.  

 

I personally love the position the 'Skins are in with their QBs.  Best position they've been in in 40 years. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

What is sad is that between these 2 great young QB's we've lost to everybody except Jacksonville in the last 11 games.

In my mind, kindof like the 2008 draft, 2013 just didn't exist.  Between the Shanahan vs. Griffin feud, the "all in" campaign, the cap penalty, the horrific ST, the bad situations, the negative vibe, I just toss the whole season out like it was a stinky fish. 

 

So, in my world, they're 1-2, and the last season that mattered, they were 10-7.  

 

The game that irks me most is Houston.  They had no business losing that game. They should have won it.  Bad ST and stupid turnovers. Stupid unforced errors.  

 

But those are correctable.  

 

Am I an optimist?  Sure am.

[UK Skins]

Voice of Reason, do you have to work hard to be the voice of reason? Great post. And the answer would of course be Griffin, assuming by healthy you mean "2012 healthy". If you mean the version where the Eagles just have to sit back and force him to throw then I would want Cousins. But that is the essence of the last 48 pages, isn't it?!

[Brokenstriker]

Can we skip Vista, Me, and get right to 7.0?.

personally I'd prefer OS X ... but I'm a Mac

 

I'm with you though.  Actually I'm very concerned and putting all my hope into the possibility that Cousins is actually very good.  I loved RGIII in 2012 up until he insisted on playing when he clearly was seriously injured (and the coaching staff for letting him) ... wasn't impressed with "all in" for 2013 with no real rehab etc.  I would love to have RGIII 2012 pre-knee assuming he continued to be passer AND a running back.  I simply don't beleive that he will be OK after this ankle injury and at best I don't beleive he will be multidimensional ever again which leaves his only option to be a surgically accurate smart as Payton Manning and tom Brady "pocket" a/k/a immobile passer ... and I don't see that coming any time soon ... or perhaps anytime period.  For me if Cousins isn't the QB for the next 4 or so years ... then the Skins are SCREWED ... and will have to go find the 'next' QB ... which means more crappy seasons of a young QB learning ... and more crappy seasons of not using draft picks to find long term fixes for the line, or the safeties or other positions

[dsciambi]

I think based on Grudens response to great stats in his presser, the only stat Gruden cares about is winning. So I guess he gave you the answer to this question. Gruden said "stats don't mean squat" So I hope Kirk is producing WINS with those great stats then it's a no brainer. If he loses 3 out the next 4, he will put RG3 back in when he's ready to go.

 

I think you're missing the point of my post, that is, unless you're saying that the entire fate of the team rests on Cousins' shoulders. If Cousins is playing at an above average level and we're not winning because of the rest of the team, are you saying you'd still sit Cousins?

 

I know it's all very hypothetical, but I was just hoping to change the trajectory of this thread a bit as it's essentially rehashing the same arguments.

[TheGoodBits]

Voice of Reason killing it on the last page. (slow clap)

[Rskins06]

Michael Jordan played point guard one season for 1/2 the year and was the best in the league but they don't tackle in basketball and RG3 already has some spokes broken off his wheels. RG3 needs to learn like Steve Young did but alot faster. Nobody is going to wait 7-8 years for him to get it.

Steve Young also played back up role to Joe Montana, Joe "Frickin" Montana Man!:  That was a bonus and aided in his transition as well.  Unfortunately, RGIII doesn't have that in DC

[RED06]

I think you're missing the point of my post, that is, unless you're saying that the entire fate of the team rests on Cousins' shoulders. If Cousins is playing at an above average level and we're not winning because of the rest of the team, are you saying you'd still sit Cousins?

 

I know it's all very hypothetical, but I was just hoping to change the trajectory of this thread a bit as it's essentially rehashing the same arguments.

I guess I can ask you this, where you willing to give RG3 a pass in 2013? This team was much worse on offense, defense and special teams. Yet, some where still calling for RG3 head regardless.

 

Now as far as your question goes, I thought Kirk played beautifully until it counted most. Blunders back at the beginning of the game doesn't matter when you have an opportunity to close the deal. Would you sit Cousins if we had 6 more games like that with great stats and he has a chance to win and don't get it done?

 

But yes I would sit him in that position he was in Sunday if he keeps losing. You have to give me more  to unseat the guy that I've hedged my franchise on and gave up so much to get. Having great stats won't do it. I know he (RG3) can do that. But I also know he can be a game changer.

 

So Capt. Kirk has to win. Moral victories are for losers.

[Jandre002]

I think you're missing the point of my post, that is, unless you're saying that the entire fate of the team rests on Cousins' shoulders. If Cousins is playing at an above average level and we're not winning because of the rest of the team, are you saying you'd still sit Cousins?

 

I know it's all very hypothetical, but I was just hoping to change the trajectory of this thread a bit as it's essentially rehashing the same arguments.

 

I would say yes. Not because I don't think Cousins handle being the starter, but because we need to see what we have out of RG3 / he needs the reps.

 

And because, if Kirks not winning, it says something about him as well. In that scenario you have an open QB competition next year, but you let RG3 finish out the season and see what he becomes.

 

RG3 has been rebuilt and remade in the off season, but we have no idea who he is as a player. So the only way we keep Kirk in the game is if hes playing extremely well and were winning.

 

As of right now hes still a back up subbing in for the superstar who is injured. It will take extraordinary circumstances for him to take over. Him throwing like he did against Philly every game AND winning would fit that category and the job would be his.

[Brokenstriker]

...  If they believe that:

1. Griffin can stay healthy, and his injuries are just freak accidents

that's a good question ... 6 seasons plus 1.1 games ... NCAA and NFL = 3 major injuries each one season-ending magnitute (2012 knee injury would have killed an entire season if it was earlier in the season ... instead it kinda killed 2013 but that's clearly a contentious debate)

 

frankly I don't know what a "freak" injury is unless it happened when someone is doing absolutely nothing ... to me they all qualify as serious injuries and they are all football related (all happened while playing football) ... each one of these is a football injury.  Odds aren't that good ... 1 season out of 2 he gets a season ending caliber injury

 

*I get it that he may come back and play ... I don't beleive that he will be >80% though if he does and I consider that an injury that should end the season if you have a decent replacement available.