Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Some great points this afternoon. Of course it may not come down to who is the "better QB", but who Gruden prefers to run his offence. As today's article implied, that might well be Cousins.

Was it that article about how coaches hate QBs who go off script? Because I'm sure Carroll/Bevell are absolutely terrified at Wilson improvising, same as Cowher/Tomlin and Arians were with Big Ben. McCarthy has probably lost countless hours of sleep worrying about what Rodgers might do in a game.

If the reason why Gruden doesn't want a QB(Any QB, not just the ones on the roster) is they might make an "off-schedule" play, then I seriously would doubt his viability as a head coach. I don't see preperation/creating the perfect opening script and sticking to it at all costs as the keys to winning in January.

Fortunately, I don't think that's the case with him.

[UK Skins]

It refers to that article (podcast?) but is talking about Gruden. Wasn't there was another article recently that said Gruden preferred Cousins too? You might hate that idea EMB but just maybe there is some truth in the matter. 

[darrelgreenie]

The problem is that Griffin's level of play in 2013 was actually pretty horrible, while Cousins has been fantastic so far.  I think that's the root of the problem - some of our fanbase doesn't accept that first part.

Griffin 2013 was "pretty horrible" huh?

Griffin’s 2013 season rates out better than all but two of Joe Flacco’s six seasons, and that it took Eli Manning until his fifth season to have a better passer rating than the one Griffin managed this year

--Chris Brown (Grantland)

 

If Griff was "pretty horrible" then how would you describe Cousins play in 2013? Extra-specially horrible?

Cousins ranked as the worst for Pass Completion Percentage at 52.2 percent

Kirk Cousins. He averaged just 5.51 yards-per-pass-attempt,

Kirk 2013

854 yards

4 TDs 7 INTs

52 comp %

58 QB Rating

[darrelgreenie]

Then Lovie Smith leaves Chicago, signs on as the Bucs' head coach...and instead of finding a new QB he brings McCown along with him. Big mistake. McCown has been crappy this year and is now injured. Bucs are fighting the Jags as worst team in the NFL. Lovie will be searching for McCown's replacement next offseason, when he should have been doing that this offseason.

Off topic.

But damn if Lovie doesn't keep repeating the same mistake: choosing the wrong Offensive Coordinator.

He picked Jeff Tedford, an (old) successful college coach with no playcalling experience in the NFL that I know of AND is has been physically ill to the point where he's not even around to coach.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Off topic.

But damn if Lovie doesn't keep repeating the same mistake: choosing the wrong Offensive Coordinator.

I'd say foolishly sticking to his belief that veteran leadership is ALWAYS better than young talent didn't help either but yeah that poor QB coach is in over his head.

[StephenDavis]

You don't know if Kirk gives you the best chance to win! He might throw for more yards, but that doesn't mean a win! I mean he threw for 427 yards this weekend, did we win that game?

 

If were winning I never said we should pull Kirk. I don't think a single person has said that this whole thread. This season, Kirk is 0-1 starting. It may have been the most impressive loss in Redskins history, but it was a loss and Kirk's play late in the game directly contributed.

I do know that the offense is running better than it has since 2012. When RGIII starts running the offense like that I will be back on board 100%. You seem to be putting too much emphasis on QB play in relation to wins and losses. Overall we aren't a very good football team. We're learning how to win again. If special teams would have stepped up last week we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Yes Cousins didn't produce late but without his play before then we wouldn't have even been in the game at all. He's still learning just like any other inexperienced QB. That was Cousin's fifth start. His future looks very bright.

[TSO]

I've always had a stance of "argue against the logic/viewpoint, not against the person using the logic or having the viewpoint."

 

Doesn't really matter to me "why" someone is interested in going into detail about a QB performance...I only care about whether or not what they say makes any sense and if there's anything tangible to back up their views and conclusions. This thread, however, is packed full of comments like "hater", "fanboy" and "bet you were happy we lost so you could come here and gloat" (arguing against the person, not their stance), claims like "If RG3 played we lose that game by 40 points!" (doesn't make any sense), and retorts that amount to little more than "watch the games" and "the eye test" (not backed up by anything tangible).

 

If you (or anyone) is anything like me, there's no way in hell you're gonna let that slide lol...

 

I don't know which posters you're referring to who had little to no desire to go into the details of Griffin's performances but are now putting Cousins under some microscope...I have stayed away from Extremeskins over the last two seasons, preferring to watch the games without the drivel of overly-emotional fans polluting the experience on a daily basis. There's a part of me that thinks I should have continued doing so lol...

 

..................................

 

 

 

Absolutely. But would you also agree there are certain posters who have routinely critiqued Roberts game that are largely attempting to downplay any critique of Cousin's game or simply avoid it's discussion in the present?

You're acting as if this is some kind of isolated strange instance where suddenly the Griffin supporters are doing some unheard of thing. All we're basically seeing is the inverse of what we've been seing for the past year or so. Instead of people nitpicking Griffin and casting continual doubts ("he sucks", "he's a second stringer"), you have different people nitpicking Cousins. And instead of people defending or excusing Griffin's issues, you have different people doing it with Cousins.

The people who are now so interested in discussing all the detailed aspects of our QBs play are interested for generally the same reason the other people previously were so interested in it but are now largely remaining silent, offering up excuses, or just shrugging it off.

.........

 

(Disclaimer: I'm replying to both of your posts since they're both responses to mine, not because I'm specifically refuting or focusing on what you've said here... just making more general statements on the matter)

 

I'd agree ZRagone, certainly what you're saying is happening. And while I can generally understand where you guys are coming from, here's my issue. Kirk Cousins IS the starting QB right now. He IS playing very well overall. He IS a Redskin. He has not done anything that we know of that can be viewed as classless, evil, mean-spirited, etc... 

 

Those are four undeniable facts, right? Those four things ALONE should mean that he receives our unwavering support right now and things SHOULD actually be one-sided. I don't see anything wrong with that on a Redskins message board for Redskins fans. I don't really see an issue with that. I never minded when people here were more supportive of Griffin than not, to a degree of course. Just like I think it's fine to criticize Cousins for his play tapering off late in games, I always thought it was fine to talk about Griffin's lack of elusiveness and issues in the pocket. However, both of those things should be balanced with acknowledging what they also do well. And if they're doing MUCH MORE in the "good department", then I expect to see a relative amount of posts based on that. So for every 1 post talking about Cousins issues late in games, there's another 10 about some of the excellent throws he's made. FROM THE SAME POSTERS.    

 

I don't see that happening right now. Maybe I'm expecting too much and trying to too much to control how I think things should be here, but I don't mean to do that with any malice or force. I sincerely believe that is the more rational, sensical approach as Redskin fans.      

 

I don't mean to offend you or point the finger at you guys. You're both some of my favorite posters here and are raising good points in general. My problem is that when some are inconsistent in how they respond about Redskin players (where one is defended more than the other in many of the same exact circumstances), it shows a level of irrationality/contradictory attitudes that I'd otherwise not like to see. I'd rather see us defend ALL Redskin players the same way, while being able to constructively criticize them the same way. 

 

That is not happening here because there have been a few who are willing to bash and insult and label. Why are they given the time of day? Just ignore them. I don't think it's excusable that because some have gone too far and completely written Griffin off or called him names or trashed his entire play while propping up Cousins, that it means that the same posters who defended Griffin from that now need to downplay/degrade/almost exclusively criticize Cousins in order to not allow those people to be "right".

 

I simply wish that the same posters who defended Griffin do the same for Cousins and keep a level of consistency with how they treat Redskin players. If they don't, it makes it hard for me to accept their positions because I have to believe it's been tainted and undermined by an agenda outside of supporting the Redskins as a team, or even hoping for the best for the organization.   

 

Again, Kirk Cousins is the starting QB right now. Things SHOULD be one-sided. He should be the guy getting our support right now and he should be the guy who we defend mostly. Cousins playing extremely well right now means our team has a much higher chance of winning games. Why wouldn't we be looking forward to that; hoping for that; focusing on that? If people want to drag Robert down when propping Cousins up, I think it's as simple as ignoring them. No need to allow them to control the discussion, which is what is happening here. 

 

There's no need for the laser-like focus that has taken place on that issue here. It makes no sense to me.

 

For me, I guess I just want to keep the discussion about actual QB play with the understanding that we're talking about Redskin players and we're Redskin fans. I've criticized Robert in the past and have been labeled, it gets super annoying, but I've never criticized him exclusively without acknowledging the things he does well. I feel like a lot of that is happening right now with Kirk. There's this sharp focus on the issues he's had with his play tapering off, but the overall great performances he's given are downplayed or ignored. I don't know what he's going to become, but I do know thus far he's done some really, really good things. So for the discussion to be so heavily focused on his issues WHILE he's still the guy starting for the team and our team is still heavily depending on him... that's just crazy to me.

 

I don't get it.         

[RED06]

Some great points this afternoon. Of course it may not come down to who is the "better QB", but who Gruden prefers to run his offence. As today's article implied, that might well be Cousins. I don't know anything about blocking assignments and the like but if he sets his schemes up in a certain way and wants a QB to do (more or less) exactly what he says then at this point in time (and possibly well into the future ) Cousins may be that man.

The only problem with that is when hear people this, they present it as Gruden "said" it. And a lot of times those are made up statements based on what the person reporting it believes or rumor they want to start.

[TheGreek1973]

I don't get why some of you are trying to point out last year as a way to degrade Cousins.  Was he terrible last year in the 3 starts?  yes for two games at least.  How much better was RGIII really however?

 

The point is last year neither QB should be judged, the team was horrible, the HC should have been fired mid season, etc etc.

 

This year however there is no denying that RGIII has not looked good in practice, in preseason (especially that Ravens game) and game 1.

 

Cousins has look good in practice (NE coaches are on record saying he looked more comfortable and sharper in this offense), and preseason and now in 7 quarters.  Could it be that this offense is tailor made for Cousins just like the offense was tailor made for RGIII in 2012? 

 

A better question should be can Cousins keep getting better and more comfortable in this offense while RGIII will take another full year to get there?  I really think RGIII can't run the offense he run in 2012, he has lost a step and he will get hurt again, therefore he needs to learn this offense and feel comfortable running it.  That is the question the coaches should be asking when he is ready to return.

 

And about this 4-6 weeks return.  Realy guys you think he is going to be in a cast for 10 days, then rehab to get strength back, then practice to get back on the same page with the WRs, you actually want this guy in there after the bye week if we are 5-4 which is very probable with our schedule?  Cousins is just starting to get the reps with the starters, if anything I expect solid performances from the offense in the next 6 games.

[RED06]

Griffin 2013 was "pretty horrible" huh?

 

If Griff was "pretty horrible" then how would you describe Cousins play in 2013? Extra-specially horrible?

Cousins ranked as the worst for Pass Completion Percentage at 52.2 percent

Kirk Cousins. He averaged just 5.51 yards-per-pass-attempt,

Kirk 2013

854 yards

4 TDs 7 INTs

52 comp %

58 QB Rating

UH oh.....don't put anything out there to show Griffin had a respectable 2013. You know what you'll be labeled as LOL

[darrelgreenie]

I don't get why some of you are trying to point out last year as a way to degrade Cousins.  Was he terrible last year in the 3 starts?  yes for two games at least.

The problem is that Griffin's level of play in 2013 was actually pretty horrible, while Cousins has been fantastic so far. I think that's the root of the problem - some of our fanbase doesn't accept that first part.

Not sure you are referring to me/my post because you didn't use the quote feature.

And like many, many posters in this thread the aversion of the quote feature would allay a lot of the....misconceptions.

I am not pointing out last year to degrade Cousins. I am responding to the post (included in my quote) from ncr3h where HE used last year to degrade Griffin and in so doing walked right into the fact (again btw) that Cousins was worse.

-Cheers

[RED06]

I don't get why some of you are trying to point out last year as a way to degrade Cousins.  Was he terrible last year in the 3 starts?  yes for two games at least.  How much better was RGIII really however?

 

The point is last year neither QB should be judged, the team was horrible, the HC should have been fired mid season, etc etc.

 

This year however there is no denying that RGIII has not looked good in practice, in preseason (especially that Ravens game) and game 1.

 

Cousins has look good in practice (NE coaches are on record saying he looked more comfortable and sharper in this offense), and preseason and now in 7 quarters.  Could it be that this offense is tailor made for Cousins just like the offense was tailor made for RGIII in 2012? 

 

A better question should be can Cousins keep getting better and more comfortable in this offense while RGIII will take another full year to get there?  I really think RGIII can't run the offense he run in 2012, he has lost a step and he will get hurt again, therefore he needs to learn this offense and feel comfortable running it.  That is the question the coaches should be asking when he is ready to return.

 

And about this 4-6 weeks return.  Realy guys you think he is going to be in a cast for 10 days, then rehab to get strength back, then practice to get back on the same page with the WRs, you actually want this guy in there after the bye week if we are 5-4 which is very probable with our schedule?  Cousins is just starting to get the reps with the starters, if anything I expect solid performances from the offense in the next 6 games.

Now I agree with some of what you're saying here TheGreek. If we are 5-4 I think Kirk should remain the starter. I think if Kirk can perform well on the road like he did in Philly, then 5-4 is VERY possible. If he can't, then 4-5 or 3-6 is possible. So I am rooting for Kirk regardless whether I think RG3 is better or not. I want to win.

 

One of two things will happen with RG3 though. 1) He's greatly humbled now and WILL have to fight like heck to get his starting job back and will take care of himself much better now. Or 2) The pressures of being a QB in the NFL is too great and will make him fold like a cheap tent and fade away.

 

But saying RG3 2013 was horrible is simply not true.  He WAS horrible at times though. But NOT the WHOLE season. However, defense and special teams where HORRIBLE the WHOLE season.

 

I can honestly say I believe that RG3 would've passed for over 4,000 yds in 2013 had he kept playing. And he still had more TD's than INT's with basically no team.

 

Now that Cousins move by Shannahan was all about Shannahan. And it backfired. So is it safe to say that Cousins need a dominate team in all fazes to be successful? I don't know.....But 1 or 2 games is not enough know what he is.

 

I just know Seattle shut Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady down for the most part. And RG3 looked pretty good against them in the playoffs before he was hurt again.

[DiscoBob]

DiscoBob - I think most are questioning how much his injuries and all the game and practice time he is missing are going to impact that. I really do think underneath all the posturing that folks on here are really pleased to have two QBs with such potential. With one of them needing so much teaching (or learning as Califan prefers to call it!) he is, however, in danger of never reaching that potential. Or at least not being with the Redskins if he does.

 

I realize that his health is, for many, the root cause of their questioning.  However, the way they are wording their posts does not acknowledge this and makes it out as if the whole debate is based on skill and ability.  

[P13]

Griff stunk last season. He never put together one complete good game if I recall. Maybe Minnesota?

 

His stats were ok but almost every game they were padded beyond reason by soft opposing defenses during garbage-time second halves.

 

I'm not saying he'll stink from this point forward but the attempted revisionism I keep seeing is hard to take. Just cause he amassed some decent fantasy stats in the second-half of blowouts doesn't absolve his horrid 2013.

[skins/psu1981]

UH oh.....don't put anything out there to show Griffin had a respectable 2013. You know what you'll be labeled as LOL

 

Here's my take from Kirk's pretty mediocre 2013 performance. Couldn't we say that knowing that team was already out of contention (3-10) that Kirk was taking more chances than he probably should've? Not comparing to Peyton, but his 28 interceptions in his rookie year,while it looked bad, was a way to learn to fit the ball in those tighter windows. Peyton took chances because the only way to get better was to make mistakes. Even Cousin's admits in the game against the Eagles that he will get better and right those wrongs that we saw in the Philadelphia game. Some of the insane passes he made in the Eagles games were super tight windows. Not alot of margin for error IMO. Some of those throws last year, were interceptions. He's getting better folks. I wish we can say the same for Griffin, but I wouldn't know because he hasn't been healthy since 10/2012.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Griff stunk last season. He never put together one complete good game if I recall. Maybe Minnesota?

 

His stats were ok but almost every game they were padded beyond reason by soft opposing defenses during garbage-time second halves.

 

I'm not saying he'll stink from this point forward but the attempted revisionism I keep seeing is hard to take. Just cause he amassed some decent fantasy stats in the second-half of blowouts doesn't absolve his horrid 2013.

Ye of 34 posts, this is simply not true. It's been beaten into the ground on this site so many times how untrue this is. I will let somebody else do it but frankly at this point I don't know why anyone tries to reason with people who continue to say this.

 

 

Even Cousin's admits in the game against the Eagles that he will get better and right those wrongs that we saw in the Philadelphia game.

Great talk, all the right things to hear from a guy with a phenomenal work ethic and study/preparation habits.

But it's something all QBs say, from the great ones at the top all the way down to Tim Tebow. Saying it will happen doesn't mean it actually will. Do I think it can, sure. I'm not 100% sold yet, and I'm far more worried about his performance on Thursday than I am about the NFC West games coming up. As I've said in this thread a couple of times, the Giants are the first team he's logging a 2nd start against, a divisional opponent on a short week. Who learned more in the film room from last year, Kirk or the guys he's throwing at? I'd like to think that it's Kirk, but seeing is believing.

[Voice_of_Reason]

 

Ye of 34 posts, this is simply not true. It's been beaten into the ground on this site so many times how untrue this is. I will let somebody else do it but frankly at this point I don't know why anyone tries to reason with people who continue to say this.

 

I'll take a shot at it....

 

Wait.  There is paint drying? Ok, I'll go watch that instead.

 

(leaves thread)

[RED06]

(Disclaimer: I'm replying to both of your posts since they're both responses to mine, not because I'm specifically refuting or focusing on what you've said here... just making more general statements on the matter)

 

I'd agree ZRagone, certainly what you're saying is happening. And while I can generally understand where you guys are coming from, here's my issue. Kirk Cousins IS the starting QB right now. He IS playing very well overall. He IS a Redskin. He has not done anything that we know of that can be viewed as classless, evil, mean-spirited, etc... 

 

Those are four undeniable facts, right? Those four things ALONE should mean that he receives our unwavering support right now and things SHOULD actually be one-sided. I don't see anything wrong with that on a Redskins message board for Redskins fans. I don't really see an issue with that. I never minded when people here were more supportive of Griffin than not, to a degree of course. Just like I think it's fine to criticize Cousins for his play tapering off late in games, I always thought it was fine to talk about Griffin's lack of elusiveness and issues in the pocket. However, both of those things should be balanced with acknowledging what they also do well. And if they're doing MUCH MORE in the "good department", then I expect to see a relative amount of posts based on that. So for every 1 post talking about Cousins issues late in games, there's another 10 about some of the excellent throws he's made. FROM THE SAME POSTERS.    

 

I don't see that happening right now. Maybe I'm expecting too much and trying to too much to control how I think things should be here, but I don't mean to do that with any malice or force. I sincerely believe that is the more rational, sensical approach as Redskin fans.      

 

I don't mean to offend you or point the finger at you guys. You're both some of my favorite posters here and are raising good points in general. My problem is that when some are inconsistent in how they respond about Redskin players (where one is defended more than the other in many of the same exact circumstances), it shows a level of irrationality/contradictory attitudes that I'd otherwise not like to see. I'd rather see us defend ALL Redskin players the same way, while being able to constructively criticize them the same way. 

 

That is not happening here because there have been a few who are willing to bash and insult and label. Why are they given the time of day? Just ignore them. I don't think it's excusable that because some have gone too far and completely written Griffin off or called him names or trashed his entire play while propping up Cousins, that it means that the same posters who defended Griffin from that now need to downplay/degrade/almost exclusively criticize Cousins in order to not allow those people to be "right".

 

I simply wish that the same posters who defended Griffin do the same for Cousins and keep a level of consistency with how they treat Redskin players. If they don't, it makes it hard for me to accept their positions because I have to believe it's been tainted and undermined by an agenda outside of supporting the Redskins as a team, or even hoping for the best for the organization.   

 

Again, Kirk Cousins is the starting QB right now. Things SHOULD be one-sided. He should be the guy getting our support right now and he should be the guy who we defend mostly. Cousins playing extremely well right now means our team has a much higher chance of winning games. Why wouldn't we be looking forward to that; hoping for that; focusing on that? If people want to drag Robert down when propping Cousins up, I think it's as simple as ignoring them. No need to allow them to control the discussion, which is what is happening here. 

 

There's no need for the laser-like focus that has taken place on that issue here. It makes no sense to me.

 

For me, I guess I just want to keep the discussion about actual QB play with the understanding that we're talking about Redskin players and we're Redskin fans. I've criticized Robert in the past and have been labeled, it gets super annoying, but I've never criticized him exclusively without acknowledging the things he does well. I feel like a lot of that is happening right now with Kirk. There's this sharp focus on the issues he's had with his play tapering off, but the overall great performances he's given are downplayed or ignored. I don't know what he's going to become, but I do know thus far he's done some really, really good things. So for the discussion to be so heavily focused on his issues WHILE he's still the guy starting for the team and our team is still heavily depending on him... that's just crazy to me.

 

I don't get it.         

You're right TSD and I'm guilty of that sometimes too. As it relates to not giving Cousins more kuddos for the way he played Sunday. But I try. It's just VERY hard as you said when you have guys that will not say ANYTHING good about RG3. Some have basically called him names etc etc etc. NOTHING Griffin does is right. The Texans game as an example, Gruden said himself the Texans took away the deep ball and would only give up short completions. Some said all Griffin did was dink and dunk and refuse to go long because he can't read defenses.....LOL!  But you are right though.

[UK Skins]

I realize that his health is, for many, the root cause of their questioning.  However, the way they are wording their posts does not acknowledge this and makes it out as if the whole debate is based on skill and ability.  

I totally agree with you. And would also add that some of the pro-Griffin fans (if I can still use that word) are completely ignoring that he has been injured, and expect him to be the same player he was in 2012. His play is largely reliant on his running and scrambling ability. If he cannot do that (or do it as well) then he will sadly never be the same player he was.

[Jandre002]

                cmp  att     yard        cmp% yrd/a  lng  td int  sck  rat

1ST HALF 131  209  1,443  62.7  6.90    44   7  7   15    80.3

2ND HALF 139  243  1,721  57.2  7.08    62   9  5   23    83.0

 

Looks pretty even to me.

[ZRagone]

I'd agree ZRagone, certainly what you're saying is happening. And while I can generally understand where you guys are coming from, here's my issue. Kirk Cousins IS the starting QB right now. He IS playing very well overall. He IS a Redskin. He has not done anything that we know of that can be viewed as classless, evil, mean-spirited, etc... 

 

Those are four undeniable facts, right?

Absolutely!

Here's the issue though.

Robert Griffin is also a Redskin. Robert Griffin has a legitimate chance to become our starting QB again sometime this year. Robert Griffin has shown he can play very well. Those are also undeniable facts I'm sure you'd agree to.

I've seen few posters take issue with posts that were clearly JUST about Cousins and JUST pumping up Cousins play. From my perspective, the posts that tend to get a negative reaction and tend to spawn hyperbolic posts AGAINST Cousins or FOR Griffin are the ones that are pumping up Cousins at the EXPENSE of another Redskin.

When someone goes something like "Cousins had a great game! I love how he stood tall in the pocket and orchastrated the offense. I think we've got a legitimate chance to win some games for however long he's at the helm" it doesn't tend to get much of a negative reaction.

When someone goes something like "That's what a great game from a real quarterback looks like. I love how he orchastrated that offense from the pocket, Griffin could never do that! I think we have our definite starter for the rest of the year, no need to wait for Griffin to 'maybe' develop into a passable QB"...that's when you start hearing people begin to make noise. Just like you're annoyed at people being overly critical to Cousins because they should be supporting him as a REDSKIN, others are annoyed at people constantly trying to crap on Robert (still a REDSKIN) in the name of promoting Cousins.

I FULLY agree with you that when Cousins has a great game that the amount of critiquing of his play should be outweighed by the amount of praise for it. Agree with you 100% there. And that's not happening, and I get the frustration there.

I guess what I'm saying is that the phenomina you note is not happening within a bubble that consists only of those posters you're speaking of. You want the criticism of Cousins to take context into account, and that's entirely reasonable. However, your criticism OF the criticism needs to take context into account as well.

On one hand we shouldn't see people being significantly more negative than positive towards Cousins after a game like that. On the other hand, we shouldn't see people attempting to hold up a two game sample size (one against the Jags, one against one of the worst statistical defenses in the NFL last season) as evidence of what the future is ABSOLUTELY going to hold for Kirk Cousins.

As good as Cousins played, there's been a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole towards his performance (often going hand in hand with shots taken at a fellow Redskin) just like there's a lot of over the top focus on the few negatives from it.

What we have, imho, is one of those chicken and the egg type moments. I think BOTH types of extreme reactions to the game feed into the other. People see someone reacting the way that's opposite of their instinct and thus they post something extreme the other direction, and the loop continues.

You're both some of my favorite posters here and are raising good points in general. My problem is that when some are inconsistent in how they respond about Redskin players (where one is defended more than the other in many of the same exact circumstances), it shows a level of irrationality/contradictory attitudes that I'd otherwise not like to see.

Trust me, I understand you here. And agree completely. But this is simply a symptom of having two good, potentially starter quality, players at the same position without a clear cut undisputed "GUY" in the eyes of the fans.

I can think of Three in recent years.

Colt Brennan / Jason Campbell / Todd Collins

Clinton Portis / LaDell Betts

Brian Orakpo / Rob Jackson

It just happens to be that in this case the issue is surrounding our QB, which always is going to be a bigger topic and more heated, AND is concerning arguably the biggest personality in DC sports in probably a decade if not more.

I get why it annoys you, but perhaps I'm just more accepting of the notion that these kind of conflicts are the reality of fandom.

As to the notion that basically came down to "Don't feed the trolls". You're right. That's probably the best means of actual dealing with it. But the problem with "don't feed the trolls" in this situation is like someone saying "don't vote for one of the two main political parties"...great in theory, but doesn't really do anything for you in the short term.

There's SOOOOO many people being biased and agenda driven on both sides of this issue right now, and so many posts by them or by people responding to them, that if you don't respond to it you barely can actually participate in the thread. What's more, there's people who are just kind of hovering in the middle that are being taken in by the ridiculousness of the trolls on either side if there isn't some kind of reasoned counter point being put forward. Without the counter point then the craziness just multiplies.

Again, Kirk Cousins is the starting QB right now. Things SHOULD be one-sided. He should be the guy getting our support right now and he should be the guy who we defend mostly.

Absolutely. But Robert Griffin is still a Redskin right now and still, at this point in time, the person expected to become out starting QB again officially. Which means we shouldn't be trashing him in an effort of supporting Kirk Cousins.

I get your frustration at people responding to people who are trashing Griffin for the purpose of propping up Cousins. I get your frustration with people being overly critical against Cousins, a response I personally think is bred IN PART out of the issue I just spoke of. What I didn't get though, and what spurred my point, was the seeming focus on you of cricitizing only one side of an equation that has two sides which are both fueling the other.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

I just don't know why people are insisting that we even have to bring up the other QBs on the roster in a thread titled "Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks".  All of my posts have been related to what I like about Cousins(Preperation, accuracy when on-time/balanced, etc) and what I don't like or still give me pauses(Consistent downward trend in second halves, pure arm strength/lack of ability to make off-schedule throws) while hoping he can overcome that, and I've been accused of "Propping up the other QB" or being "Unable to hide my hatred". This thread is about Cousins. I'm going to talk about Cousins.

In all of my posts, except for in response to "Taco Bell" demanding Califan go through Griffin's game tape to find him executing a play that TACO BELL wanted to see, telling him he was crazy asking other people to look for things for him on the internet in 2014, and just recently making fun of someone pulling up the same debunked "Garbage Time" talking point, I haven't even mentioned #10 nor alluded to him.

He's injured right now, I don't know what there is to talk about regarding him or why I should do so in the name of "Fairness".

[skins/psu1981]

I totally agree with you. And would also add that some of the pro-Griffin fans (if I can still use that word) are completely ignoring that he has been injured, and expect him to be the same player he was in 2012. His play is largely reliant on his running and scrambling ability. If he cannot do that (or do it as well) then he will sadly never be the same player he was.

Health was obviously a factor last year, however, the rest of the league didn't allow him to be 2012 Griffin with or without his injury. So what we saw from Griffin in 2013 was more a pass happy offense, which was sometimes effective, however the majority of the time it was not. Once the threat wasn't there for Griffin to run, defenses fell back into position and waited for Griffin to pass. The respect for Griffin wasn't there anymore. Which led to more interceptions and more sacks and of course more L's (Though Griffin would've won 9-10 games if he had a Seattle team backing him up). I just think we saw the last of what made Griffin so awesome in 2012. Now every time he is on the field I cringe when he took a hit. Not in my wildest dreams did I think he could dislocate his ankle without any one touching him.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

He could be, but if Gruden trades RG3 and doesn't win next year with Cousins, the Gruden era will be ending right after the RG3 era. And we will be in rebuilding mode yet again.

 

Maybe, but (as an owner) you can't hire a coach and then dictate who he plays. And, his choice of players shouldn't cause him to lose his job sooner than he would have if you agreed with them. 

[DC9]

Off topic.

But damn if Lovie doesn't keep repeating the same mistake: choosing the wrong Offensive Coordinator.

He picked Jeff Tedford, an (old) successful college coach with no playcalling experience in the NFL that I know of AND is has been physically ill to the point where he's not even around to coach.

 

When I heard he was picking Tedford that dropped him off my list of potentials.  He went from third to off the list like that.

 

EDIT:  BTW... it's nice to see you back.