Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[TD_washingtonredskins]

What would be ridiculous for a fan base that has experienced losing for more than two decades would be to finally get consistently high-level QB play from a young QB (assuming Cousins can sustain this, of course) and then complain or jump off a ledge because it's not the guy they would have preferred. 

 

I have to say, on 9/24/2014, I am leaning toward wanting Cousins to just take the position and run with it. It seems like the path of least resistance since he's already playing so well. It seems like the safer choice since he's seemingly less likely to miss time due to injury. 

 

I'm not going to bash Griffin or hope he struggles when he does play again though. I'm just stating that my ultimate goal is for the Redskins to have a young, reliable franchise QB and I believe that Cousins is closer to being that right now. 

[Taco Bell]

I just don't know why people are insisting that we even have to bring up the other QBs on the roster in a thread titled "Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks".  All of my posts have been related to what I like about Cousins(Preperation, accuracy when on-time/balanced, etc) and what I don't like or still give me pauses(Consistent downward trend in second halves, pure arm strength/lack of ability to make off-schedule throws) while hoping he can overcome that, and I've been accused of "Propping up the other QB" or being "Unable to hide my hatred". This thread is about Cousins. I'm going to talk about Cousins.

In all of my posts, except for in response to "Taco Bell" demanding Califan go through Griffin's game tape to find him executing a play that TACO BELL wanted to see, telling him he was crazy asking other people to look for things for him on the internet in 2014, and just recently making fun of someone pulling up the same debunked "Garbage Time" talking point, I haven't even mentioned #10 nor alluded to him.

He's injured right now, I don't know what there is to talk about regarding him or why I should do so in the name of "Fairness".

 

 

You're pretty interesting monkey boy... 

 

I gave a "pro griffin" poster a fair opportunity to locate a play that if one could be found similar I gave the opportunity to be swayed.  I never "demanded it," that's a joke, and you are speaking in hyperbole only because you are still annoyed about it for some reason.  Not to mention, I made it known to Cali that I respect him/her as a poster and understand I wouldn't carry any hard feelings towards him/her in the future and was glad he/she made the effort, and that their posting history is second to none and only respected them more going forward.

 

You are so behind, it's ridiculous.

 

And also, it's funny how you are so upset that I tried to change the conversation to something positive, as in, finding an element of "proof" that things that many might think "cousins can do but RG3 can't" is indeed a fallacy.  Sorry that you are still upset over such a small thing that was clearly meant to be geared towards positive discussion.

[RED06]

Absolutely!

Here's the issue though.

Robert Griffin is also a Redskin. Robert Griffin has a legitimate chance to become our starting QB again sometime this year. Robert Griffin has shown he can play very well. Those are also undeniable facts I'm sure you'd agree to.

I've seen few posters take issue with posts that were clearly JUST about Cousins and JUST pumping up Cousins play. From my perspective, the posts that tend to get a negative reaction and tend to spawn hyperbolic posts AGAINST Cousins or FOR Griffin are the ones that are pumping up Cousins at the EXPENSE of another Redskin.

When someone goes something like "Cousins had a great game! I love how he stood tall in the pocket and orchastrated the offense. I think we've got a legitimate chance to win some games for however long he's at the helm" it doesn't tend to get much of a negative reaction.

When someone goes something like "That's what a great game from a real quarterback looks like. I love how he orchastrated that offense from the pocket, Griffin could never do that! I think we have our definite starter for the rest of the year, no need to wait for Griffin to 'maybe' develop into a passable QB"...that's when you start hearing people begin to make noise. Just like you're annoyed at people being overly critical to Cousins because they should be supporting him as a REDSKIN, others are annoyed at people constantly trying to crap on Robert (still a REDSKIN) in the name of promoting Cousins.

I FULLY agree with you that when Cousins has a great game that the amount of critiquing of his play should be outweighed by the amount of praise for it. Agree with you 100% there. And that's not happening, and I get the frustration there.

I guess what I'm saying is that the phenomina you note is not happening within a bubble that consists only of those posters you're speaking of. You want the criticism of Cousins to take context into account, and that's entirely reasonable. However, your criticism OF the criticism needs to take context into account as well.

On one hand we shouldn't see people being significantly more negative than positive towards Cousins after a game like that. On the other hand, we shouldn't see people attempting to hold up a two game sample size (one against the Jags, one against one of the worst statistical defenses in the NFL last season) as evidence of what the future is ABSOLUTELY going to hold for Kirk Cousins.

As good as Cousins played, there's been a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole towards his performance (often going hand in hand with shots taken at a fellow Redskin) just like there's a lot of over the top focus on the few negatives from it.

What we have, imho, is one of those chicken and the egg type moments. I think BOTH types of extreme reactions to the game feed into the other. People see someone reacting the way that's opposite of their instinct and thus they post something extreme the other direction, and the loop continues.

Trust me, I understand you here. And agree completely. But this is simply a symptom of having two good, potentially starter quality, players at the same position without a clear cut undisputed "GUY" in the eyes of the fans.

I can think of Three in recent years.

Colt Brennan / Jason Campbell / Todd Collins

Clinton Portis / LaDell Betts

Brian Orakpo / Rob Jackson

It just happens to be that in this case the issue is surrounding our QB, which always is going to be a bigger topic and more heated, AND is concerning arguably the biggest personality in DC sports in probably a decade if not more.

I get why it annoys you, but perhaps I'm just more accepting of the notion that these kind of conflicts are the reality of fandom.

As to the notion that basically came down to "Don't feed the trolls". You're right. That's probably the best means of actual dealing with it. But the problem with "don't feed the trolls" in this situation is like someone saying "don't vote for one of the two main political parties"...great in theory, but doesn't really do anything for you in the short term.

There's SOOOOO many people being biased and agenda driven on both sides of this issue right now, and so many posts by them or by people responding to them, that if you don't respond to it you barely can actually participate in the thread. What's more, there's people who are just kind of hovering in the middle that are being taken in by the ridiculousness of the trolls on either side if there isn't some kind of reasoned counter point being put forward. Without the counter point then the craziness just multiplies.

Absolutely. But Robert Griffin is still a Redskin right now and still, at this point in time, the person expected to become out starting QB again officially. Which means we shouldn't be trashing him in an effort of supporting Kirk Cousins.

I get your frustration at people responding to people who are trashing Griffin for the purpose of propping up Cousins. I get your frustration with people being overly critical against Cousins, a response I personally think is bred IN PART out of the issue I just spoke of. What I didn't get though, and what spurred my point, was the seeming focus on you of cricitizing only one side of an equation that has two sides which are both fueling the other.

 

Absolutely!

Here's the issue though.

Robert Griffin is also a Redskin. Robert Griffin has a legitimate chance to become our starting QB again sometime this year. Robert Griffin has shown he can play very well. Those are also undeniable facts I'm sure you'd agree to.

I've seen few posters take issue with posts that were clearly JUST about Cousins and JUST pumping up Cousins play. From my perspective, the posts that tend to get a negative reaction and tend to spawn hyperbolic posts AGAINST Cousins or FOR Griffin are the ones that are pumping up Cousins at the EXPENSE of another Redskin.

When someone goes something like "Cousins had a great game! I love how he stood tall in the pocket and orchastrated the offense. I think we've got a legitimate chance to win some games for however long he's at the helm" it doesn't tend to get much of a negative reaction.

When someone goes something like "That's what a great game from a real quarterback looks like. I love how he orchastrated that offense from the pocket, Griffin could never do that! I think we have our definite starter for the rest of the year, no need to wait for Griffin to 'maybe' develop into a passable QB"...that's when you start hearing people begin to make noise. Just like you're annoyed at people being overly critical to Cousins because they should be supporting him as a REDSKIN, others are annoyed at people constantly trying to crap on Robert (still a REDSKIN) in the name of promoting Cousins.

I FULLY agree with you that when Cousins has a great game that the amount of critiquing of his play should be outweighed by the amount of praise for it. Agree with you 100% there. And that's not happening, and I get the frustration there.

I guess what I'm saying is that the phenomina you note is not happening within a bubble that consists only of those posters you're speaking of. You want the criticism of Cousins to take context into account, and that's entirely reasonable. However, your criticism OF the criticism needs to take context into account as well.

On one hand we shouldn't see people being significantly more negative than positive towards Cousins after a game like that. On the other hand, we shouldn't see people attempting to hold up a two game sample size (one against the Jags, one against one of the worst statistical defenses in the NFL last season) as evidence of what the future is ABSOLUTELY going to hold for Kirk Cousins.

As good as Cousins played, there's been a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole towards his performance (often going hand in hand with shots taken at a fellow Redskin) just like there's a lot of over the top focus on the few negatives from it.

What we have, imho, is one of those chicken and the egg type moments. I think BOTH types of extreme reactions to the game feed into the other. People see someone reacting the way that's opposite of their instinct and thus they post something extreme the other direction, and the loop continues.

Trust me, I understand you here. And agree completely. But this is simply a symptom of having two good, potentially starter quality, players at the same position without a clear cut undisputed "GUY" in the eyes of the fans.

I can think of Three in recent years.

Colt Brennan / Jason Campbell / Todd Collins

Clinton Portis / LaDell Betts

Brian Orakpo / Rob Jackson

It just happens to be that in this case the issue is surrounding our QB, which always is going to be a bigger topic and more heated, AND is concerning arguably the biggest personality in DC sports in probably a decade if not more.

I get why it annoys you, but perhaps I'm just more accepting of the notion that these kind of conflicts are the reality of fandom.

As to the notion that basically came down to "Don't feed the trolls". You're right. That's probably the best means of actual dealing with it. But the problem with "don't feed the trolls" in this situation is like someone saying "don't vote for one of the two main political parties"...great in theory, but doesn't really do anything for you in the short term.

There's SOOOOO many people being biased and agenda driven on both sides of this issue right now, and so many posts by them or by people responding to them, that if you don't respond to it you barely can actually participate in the thread. What's more, there's people who are just kind of hovering in the middle that are being taken in by the ridiculousness of the trolls on either side if there isn't some kind of reasoned counter point being put forward. Without the counter point then the craziness just multiplies.

Absolutely. But Robert Griffin is still a Redskin right now and still, at this point in time, the person expected to become out starting QB again officially. Which means we shouldn't be trashing him in an effort of supporting Kirk Cousins.

I get your frustration at people responding to people who are trashing Griffin for the purpose of propping up Cousins. I get your frustration with people being overly critical against Cousins, a response I personally think is bred IN PART out of the issue I just spoke of. What I didn't get though, and what spurred my point, was the seeming focus on you of cricitizing only one side of an equation that has two sides which are both fueling the other.

Well said. That's what makes talking about the game fun. It becomes crazy when someone just bash bash bash any player because they simply like the other one. It's NOT about football anymore. I like good football discussions. We ALL have our preferred players. But you're right too, it shouldn't get down to trashing another player that's a Redskin.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Sorry, in 2014 the only person you should be asking nicely, strongly, or flat-out demanding to provide evidence of what YOU want to see is Google, Siri, or Cortana. That's on him for entertaining you on that one.

[dballer]

Cousins vs RG3?

 

[RED06]

What would be ridiculous for a fan base that has experienced losing for more than two decades would be to finally get consistently high-level QB play from a young QB (assuming Cousins can sustain this, of course) and then complain or jump off a ledge because it's not the guy they would have preferred. 

 

I have to say, on 9/24/2014, I am leaning toward wanting Cousins to just take the position and run with it. It seems like the path of least resistance since he's already playing so well. It seems like the safer choice since he's seemingly less likely to miss time due to injury. 

 

I'm not going to bash Griffin or hope he struggles when he does play again though. I'm just stating that my ultimate goal is for the Redskins to have a young, reliable franchise QB and I believe that Cousins is closer to being that right now. 

What would you do with RG3 then? And if we did something like that based of 1 game, what if he's not who you thought he was, then what? And the same thing can be said about RG3 at this point. I'm just asking.......

[Taco Bell]

Sorry, in 2014 the only person you should be asking nicely, strongly, or flat-out demanding to provide evidence of what YOU want to see is Google, Siri, or Cortana. That's on him for entertaining you on that one.

 

You're not getting anywhere with this.  I made it clear that the reason why a "pro-griff" person has to be the one to find the "proof" is because to the pro-cousins people here, it is self-evident that Cousins is better right now.  No matter where you turn, everyone is saying the exact same thing, opposing teams fans, the media, a ton of fans right here on this MB, etc. He's pretty much top 5 or top 10 in all passing categories this season, and has 1 less game than all the other QBs in question.  Do you really not get why I don't need to bother to try proving myself wrong?  

 

Someone on the other side's gotta do it, because I am perfectly comfortable in thinking Cousins>RG3 Right now.

 

You don't seem to understand the initial premise either, which is now also odd to me, since you're so upset I figured you understood what the reason was as to why "someone else" had to look.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

What would you do with RG3 then? And if we did something like that based of 1 game, what if he's not who you thought he was, then what? And the same thing can be said about RG3 at this point. I'm just asking.......

 

I don't know. I guess you look to trade him. At this point, you spent 3 firsts, 1 second, and a fourth on two QBs. You would be foolish to worry about how those were allocated when selecting which guy to move forward with and which guy to use to gain back some value. 

 

I'm not sure why you mention one game. My entire point was predicated on my parenthetical assumption that Cousins sustained this level of play for the life of his "try out" while Griffin is hurt. If you have 7-8 games of this level of play in a traditional offense, why would you expect him to drastically change? 

[dsciambi]

Since this is a thread about the performance of Cousins, I have a question. I keep seeing people say that if we have a winning record by the time RG3 is healthy, or if we win/lose x amount of games over this period, that will be the decision on who we go with as QB for the rest of the season.

 

What if Cousins has similar performances over the next 4 weeks to the Eagles game? We'll even say he has one bad one, since I can't imagine any QB playing lights out against a divisional rival followed by the Seahawks and Cardinals. So Cousins is throwing for on average 300 yards a game, 2-3 TD's a game, and limiting his turnovers. But we still lose 3 of the next 4 due to similar reasons as the Eagles game; bad special teams play and defense allowing high 20-30's to the opposition.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

You're not getting anywhere with this.  

I get the premise, Califan showed a perfect example of the QB doing something people say he can't do, and you said that it wasn't good enough for you. That you wanted to see something even more specific. Nobody should have to entertain your lunacy at that point.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Well said. That's what makes talking about the game fun. It becomes crazy when someone just bash bash bash any player because they simply like the other one. It's NOT about football anymore. I like good football discussions. We ALL have our preferred players. But you're right too, it shouldn't get down to trashing another player that's a Redskin.

Please remember rule ... Not sure which one, but there is a rule about not quoting huge blocks of text. The delete key is your friend. (And those of us that peruse the board from smart phones Appreciate it. )

[ZRagone]

The talk of whose our guy for the future is ridiculous at this point.

We're probably at least 6 games away from needing to worry about that. Unless you think we're potentially wheeling Griffin out on the field in a cast, Cousins is the guy right now whether he craps the bed or lights the world on fire.

There's no reason to freak out after one game and declare Cousins the starter for all time. There's no reason to declare for certainty what we should do with Griffin. There's no reason to desperately call last week an abberation and try and suggest Cousins should never be our QB.

We've got 6 games at least before we're faced with that decision for the rest of this season, and almost a year and a half after that to determine who we want to try and roll with for the forseesable future.

Not only do we not have to make that decision after this one game, we would be FOOLS to do so.

-------------------------

Cousins is our QB right now. If he continues to play well (not necessarily at the level of Sunday, but at least well) then we're going to be in contention to win some games and maybe have a shot at the post season this year. We should all be rooting for him and excited about his play.

In 6+ weeks when Griffin is healthy then the Coaching Staff is going to make a call on who they think is the best option to start, balancing the short and long term needs of this team. Just like they did coming out of training camp. And REGARDLESS of who starts we should support that person.

Hypothetically, if Cousins plays well for as long as he can this year and Griffin, if he plays again, doesn't S the bed but doens't set the world on fire...the next year you do an open competition and you trust the coaching staff to make the call. Most likely at that point you possibly shop the other player to get something for them instead of just having them walk in the off season.

But we're still a 3rd of the season worth of games away from needing to even begin seriously thinking about those things. Come the by week if we want to be waging flame wars over who "our guy" is going to be...sure, makes some sense. But right now it's just not needed and foolish to try and declare with any sort of certainty.

I realize we're a society that loves instant gratification and "what have you done for me lately"...but that's really a poor way to evaluate things at an NFL level. If it wasn't, then at various times Matt Cassel, Kevin Kobl, Matt Flynn, and hell Robert Griffin would've been some of the greatest QBs ever and the likes of Tim Tebow would be viewed as a similar level of "winner" as some of the greats. We've got time before we need to declare with certainty who our "guy" is; we don't need to decide off a two game sample size.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Since this is a thread about the performance of Cousins, I have a question. I keep seeing people say that if we have a winning record by the time RG3 is healthy, or if we win/lose x amount of games over this period, that will be the decision on who we go with as QB for the rest of the season.

 

What if Cousins has similar performances over the next 4 weeks to the Eagles game? We'll even say he has one bad one, since I can't imagine any QB playing lights out against a divisional rival followed by the Seahawks and Cardinals. So Cousins is throwing for on average 300 yards a game, 2-3 TD's a game, and limiting his turnovers. But we still lose 3 of the next 4 due to similar reasons as the Eagles game; bad special teams play and defense allowing high 20-30's to the opposition.

 

I wouldn't really judge him on the team result unless he's directly responsible for the losses. To me, 300+ yards and 2-3 TDs if it's accompanied by 2-3 INTs isn't going to be all that impressive to me. But if his stat line from the Jags and Eagles games holds somewhat steady, I don't see how you bench the guy. 

 

Like I said, I don't really have a face in mind for our young, promising, and reliable QB. I just want one. 

[RED06]

Please remember rule ... Not sure which one, but there is a rule about not quoting huge blocks of text. The delete key is your friend. (And those of us that peruse the board from smart phones Appreciate it. )

I don't know how to do it. I've been wanting to but don't know how. You said delete button? And then......Can you send me a message explaining to me how to do it? Thank you man.

[Taco Bell]

I get the premise, Califan showed a perfect example of the QB doing something people say he can't do, and you said that it wasn't good enough for you. That you wanted to see something even more specific. Nobody should have to entertain your lunacy at the point.

 

a play action pass where you look deep then throw to a dump off route is not the same as 1 step turning right, looking at 2 reads, then throwing an anticipatory out route to the left within 3 seconds.  They aren't the same.  I don't know why you question something so basic either.  Really, I mean, you must think that all passing plays are "roughly" the same then right?  I mean, why does any QB bother practicing plays if they are all "kinda the same" based on a glance at a screen cap?  Cali understood what I meant, and that's all that matters.

 

I thanked him/her for taking the screencaps etc, and yes Cali found a nice play that exhibited many great talents and decision making by RG3.  I asked for a play like the Cousins' one precisely because it is specific, and seemed to be a more difficult route combination to handle... Do you really not get why I asked for a play that you are complaining is "specific?"  That's the whole point of getting proved wrong. I wanted to see the bits and pieces of what Cousins did in a play by RG3.  

 

Come on, I'll even be nice to you starting the very next post if you just admit that I was asking for something specific for a logical and fair reason. 

 

The point stands anyway, that a great reason for many people to believe Cousins is superior right now is because he can do more complicated reads and plays. Mine was just an example and wanted to see if he had ever done anything like that.

[RED06]

I don't know. I guess you look to trade him. At this point, you spent 3 firsts, 1 second, and a fourth on two QBs. You would be foolish to worry about how those were allocated when selecting which guy to move forward with and which guy to use to gain back some value. 

 

I'm not sure why you mention one game. My entire point was predicated on my parenthetical assumption that Cousins sustained this level of play for the life of his "try out" while Griffin is hurt. If you have 7-8 games of this level of play in a traditional offense, why would you expect him to drastically change? 

Well I said 1 game because the game you mentioned being your reason behind your post was his last game. Maybe I read it or took the wrong meaning from it. I hope Cousins can sustain that level of play in the coming weeks. But what if he can't and we're losing when Griffin comes back, what would you do then?

 

I honestly don't think ANY QB can throw for 400yds a week (not saying that you said that) 3TD's etc. And remember we haven't played a top 10 defense yet. Those games are coming.

[UK Skins]

The only problem with that is when hear people this, they present it as Gruden "said" it. And a lot of times those are made up statements based on what the person reporting it believes or rumor they want to start.

[Rskins06]

No one can dispute the fact that KC looks much better in this offense than RGIII. RGIII looked great in the read option but looks really uncomfortable in this offense. How long do you give RGIII to learn this offense? Since training camp, we all read the same things, KC looks better, looks more comfortable in this offense, etc.etc.etc. Through 2 games, we have seen it. KC looks much better running Jay Gruden's offense (this is not debateable).

If we go back to a Read Option Offense (we did so in the Jags game), I am all in for RGIII. However, if we are keeping Gruden's offense the way it has played out the last 2 games, I am all in for KC. If KC plays even close to what he has played the last couple of games, you don't sit him. That doesn't mean RGIII never becomes the starter again, he will just have to learn the offense and learn how to play the game more of a pocket passer.

I think either way, you open up a QB competition in the offseason, the loser of the competition needs to be traded or released. The Redskins can't go every year having this same issue.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well I said 1 game because the game you mentioned being your reason behind your post was his last game. Maybe I read it or took the wrong meaning from it. I hope Cousins can sustain that level of play in the coming weeks. But what if he can't and we're losing when Griffin comes back, what you you do then?

 

If Cousins isn't playing well by the time Griffin has recovered, then you react accordingly and reinstate Griffin as the starter. When I said that I was leaning toward Cousins, it was predicated on the assumption that he gives us a body of work similar to what we saw in his first two games this season. 

 

I still think that the correct decision at QB will be pretty obvious for those willing to look at it objectively. The odds that Cousins' level of play is hovers just above average are pretty slim. I believe by the time Griffin can return, it will be a pretty easy decision for the coaches (assuming there are no politics at play). 

 

I say that because I believe 8 games is a large enough sample size to measure a QB's skills, consistency, and durability. 

[UK Skins]

The only problem with that is when hear people this, they present it as Gruden "said" it. And a lot of times those are made up statements based on what the person reporting it believes or rumor they want to start.

[Rskins06]

Well I said 1 game because the game you mentioned being your reason behind your post was his last game. Maybe I read it or took the wrong meaning from it. I hope Cousins can sustain that level of play in the coming weeks. But what if he can't and we're losing when Griffin comes back, what would you do then?

 

I honestly don't think ANY QB can throw for 400yds a week (not saying that you said that) 3TD's etc. And remember we haven't played a top 10 defense yet. Those games are coming.

If KC doesn't play well and we are losing, you re-insert RGIII into the starting line up.  If KC is playing well and we are still losing (because of Defense/ST) or better yet we are winning, you turn it over to KC for the remainder of the year.  RGIII gets the rest of the year to practice and learn this offense, then, you open up a QB competition and let the winner stay and send the loser away and you keep Colt McCoy as your back up.

[UK Skins]

You would assume a pro-Cousins story was made up even if you could see Gruden's lips moving. Why automatically assume this is a made up statement? Take off your blinkers occasionally, please?!

[Voice_of_Reason]

I just had a fascinating thought:

This franchise hasn't had a franchise QB since either Sonny or Joe, depending on if Joey T. fits your definition of franchise QB. (Too short tenure for me, had 4 solid years.

The last time we had 2 possible franchise guys was Sonny vs. Billy.

We've been reduced to arguing about guys like Ferotte vs. Shuler, Johnson vs. George, all those ex-gators, Ramsey vs. Brunell, Grossman vs. Beck, JC VS. Collins, and my personal favorite, JC vs. Colt freaking Brennan.

We now might have 2 guys who can play. Probably for the first time since Sonny and Billy.

And the behavior of some fans towards members of their own team is, to use a Bruce Allen word, distasteful.y word would be pathetic.

The final book is written for neither one. When Griffin is healthy, the coaches can decide what they want to do. And there is no way to predict the future.

Personally, I'm just going to be grateful that we appear to have 2 good, young QBs. And hope that helps the team win games.

[RED06]

Since this is a thread about the performance of Cousins, I have a question. I keep seeing people say that if we have a winning record by the time RG3 is healthy, or if we win/lose x amount of games over this period, that will be the decision on who we go with as QB for the rest of the season.

 

What if Cousins has similar performances over the next 4 weeks to the Eagles game? We'll even say he has one bad one, since I can't imagine any QB playing lights out against a divisional rival followed by the Seahawks and Cardinals. So Cousins is throwing for on average 300 yards a game, 2-3 TD's a game, and limiting his turnovers. But we still lose 3 of the next 4 due to similar reasons as the Eagles game; bad special teams play and defense allowing high 20-30's to the opposition.

I think based on Grudens response to great stats in his presser, the only stat Gruden cares about is winning. So I guess he gave you the answer to this question. Gruden said "stats don't mean squat" So I hope Kirk is producing WINS with those great stats then it's a no brainer. If he loses 3 out the next 4, he will put RG3 back in when he's ready to go.

[Ghost of]

I think based on Grudens response to great stats in his presser, the only stat Gruden cares about is winning. So I guess he gave you the answer to this question. Gruden said "stats don't mean squat" So I hope Kirk is producing WINS with those great stats then it's a no brainer. If he loses 3 out the next 4, he will put RG3 back in when he's ready to go.

I'd say if we get multiple chances to win with ample time left in the game and Kirk comes up snake eyes every time that a change would be made.