Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Right back at you...nice post. 

 

I don't fully believe that Griffin is all about being healthy. Without a doubt he is a better athlete than Cousins, but I'm not sure most of that athletic advantage translates well to football. If he turns the corner and happens to have a lane, THEN all bets are off. Otherwise, I am not so sure he's a great open-field runner who really changes the game significantly. 

 

Take his runs against Jacksonville as an example. He looked fine and got us a couple first downs, but he didn't really do anything other than get what was there. Sure, his speed turned what might have been 6-7 yards into 10-11 yards. But, is that marginal upgrade in that very specific department worth going through the learning process of a much more complicated skill set (playing from the pocket)? 

 

I would say, at this point, no. 

 

So, unless all of the traditional QB elements are equal, I don't think his athleticism really becomes a tie-breaker that I care too much about. I will fully admit that he could evolve into a comparable (or better) pocket passer than Cousins. I have no reason to believe any differently. But he's not there now and his x-factor isn't tipping the scales. 

 

I agree.

 

I keep hearing how his ability to extend plays and create is such a huge asset. The play he was injured on against Jax is one of the only instances I can remember of that since 2012. 

 

And that's very true about him not being very elusive. He only knows how to use his speed because it's always been enough...until now. Vick could move in the open field, RG3 really can't or just isn't that good at it. That Giants play in 2012 is the only time I remember him truly eluding defenders without straight line speed. 

[dballer]

I would definitely start Cousins over Griffin tonight. Probably next week as well.

He is simply the better quarterback right now...

[Rskins06]

so why they do that, but not the redskins?

RGIII does not want to run the read option.  He wanted to transition into a more complete QB (like Aaron Rogers).  The problem is his comfortability running ANY offense besides the Read Option.  He has not shown an ability to pick it up quickly.  Doesn't mean he can't, just hasn't yet.  If he is going to be a complete QB, then he should probably spend this time watching KC run this offense.  I am not saying KC is a complete QB, but he runs Grudens offense very well, what I am saying is, RGIII can learn from watching KC run the offense. 

It really doesn't matter who loves KC or who loves RGIII, honestly, I don't care who is the QB of the REDSKINS, I just want to see them start winning games.  REGARDLESS who plays QB, should be the best man playing. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I agree.

 

I keep hearing how his ability to extend plays and create is such a huge asset. The play he was injured on against Jax is one of the only instances I can remember of that since 2012. 

 

And that's very true about him not being very elusive. He only knows how to use his speed because it's always been enough...until now. Vick could move in the open field, RG3 really can't or just isn't that good at it. That Giants play in 2012 is the only time I remember him truly eluding defenders without straight line speed. 

 

In fairness, I do remember a few plays very early in 2012 where he looked like he had great pocket awareness. There was one play in the NO game where a free blitzer just whiffed because Griffin recognized it, spun to the inside, reset himself and either threw or got positive yardage. It seems like lately his reaction to pressure is to go backward and/or run to the right. 

[Rskins06]

Not that I disagree with you, but I think he was speaking from the point of some Skins fans are willing to give Kirk Cousins a pass based on how special teams and the defense played. But, they wouldn't do the same with RG3 in 2013 when both special teams and defense was a lot worse. And most if not all the blame went on RG3.

 

So he viewed it as a contradiction and disloyal to RG3.

I don't believe anyone is giving KC a pass because of special teams and defense, KC played a great game, yes, he missed on an opportunity to win the game, however, the offense put up 34 points!.  Last year, EVERYONE knew RGIII either rushed back or was rushed back to quickly.  He was obviously not healthy and was not progressing.  Last year, the ENTIRE team sucked, RGIII sucked, Offense Sucked, Defense Sucked, ST sucked.  Really the ONLY bright spot from last year was Alf. 

[redskins4ever28]

Griffins regressed a great deal.  I dont think its because his 2012 season was a fluke.  I dont think its because he WANTS to be a pocket QB. I think honestly that injury really has messed with his mechanics, AND also I think he lacks the confidence he used to have.

Carson Palmer was never the same qb after getting injured in that playoff game vs the steelers.  And I think Griffins is the same kinda situation.  I also think, like I said, he isnt having fun anymore.  Hes over thinking everything, scared to make a mistake. 

[RWJ]

Griffins regressed a great deal.  I dont think its because his 2012 season was a fluke.  I dont think its because he WANTS to be a pocket QB. I think honestly that injury really has messed with his mechanics, AND also I think he lacks the confidence he used to have.

Carson Palmer was never the same qb after getting injured in that playoff game vs the steelers.  And I think Griffins is the same kinda situation.  I also think, like I said, he isnt having fun anymore.  Hes over thinking everything, scared to make a mistake.

I definitely think these comments play into RG3's play. I also think his career going forward will continue to regress due to current and future injuries he will suffer. He's a once talented, broken down QB, IMO. It's a shame too.

[UK Skins]

This is way too confusing having a RED06 and a Rskins06. Could done of you change your username?

[dsciambi]

Griffins regressed a great deal.  I dont think its because his 2012 season was a fluke.  I dont think its because he WANTS to be a pocket QB. I think honestly that injury really has messed with his mechanics, AND also I think he lacks the confidence he used to have.

Carson Palmer was never the same qb after getting injured in that playoff game vs the steelers.  And I think Griffins is the same kinda situation.  I also think, like I said, he isnt having fun anymore.  Hes over thinking everything, scared to make a mistake. 

 

I think that's a perfect example of a potentially great QB being ruined by injury. He can still play, but he's a shell of his old self.

 

We have all these people saying RG3 can still be what he was in 2012, despite no real evidence that it's going to happen. I think it's much more likely RG3 ends up coming back from his knee injury like Palmer and not like Brady. Palmer was a young QB with little experience who played very well. Brady was a very experienced veteran.

[Rskins06]

This is way too confusing having a RED06 and a Rskins06. Could done of you change your username?

Damn, now I am confused, I wonder if I have been responding to my own Posts!!

[Brokenstriker]

Not that I disagree with you, but I think he was speaking from the point of some Skins fans are willing to give Kirk Cousins a pass based on how special teams and the defense played. But, they wouldn't do the same with RG3 in 2013 when both special teams and defense was a lot worse. And most if not all the blame went on RG3.

 

So he viewed it as a contradiction and disloyal to RG3.

again ... "disloyal to RGIII?" ... I'd buy unfair to RGIII ... as a reasonable position to take as a Skins fan ... not that I think it is ... but disloyal to RGIII? ... There is no reason for a Redskins fan to be loyal to RGIII ... or any other specific player.  Is RGIII going to play only for the Redskins?  Is he going to take a pay cut to allow the Redskins to sign better players around him?  Better yet ... is he going to sit on the sidelines and recover from his serious injuries and watch his back-up play regular season games while he regains strength, mobility and develops comfort with the playbook (pointed accusation intended)?  For that matter ... is RGIII "loyal" to the Redskins?  If he is, he's fool.  He should be professional and honorable about his commitments to the Redskins (and I'm sure he is) but "loyal" ... no ... and I wouldn't expect him to be.  It's a business, man.  At the end of his contract he will sign with the highest bidder ... or perhaps a close second if they offer him a better chance to improve his personal value (his Heismann trophy commercial value is already fading ... should be gone now in fact).  And I don't fault him one bit for that.

 

RE: giving Cousins a "pass" ... theres some RGIII bias in that too.  Giving Cousins a better grade all things considered? ... sure ... and I do ... at this particular moment.  If I could have RGIII circa 2012 pre-knee I'd take him in a heart beat.  Anybody seen that man around here lately?  Bias because it presumes that Cousins needs a pass to compare to the glorious RGIII in the eyes of his "loyal" fans.  I think the "pass" argument is the wrong tag to put on attempts to put a highly subjective assessment into context.  And in any case its just an opinion.  Its not science.  There is no stop watch involved.

[UK Skins]

Damn, now I am confused, I wonder if I have been responding to my own Posts!!

Lol. That's damn funny

[DarkLink]

I feel the play calling in the last series was terrible against Eagles. Instead of running an obvious run play on 1st down, we should of called playaction or something. I liked how we came out at the beginning of the game. I felt it should of ended the same way. I felt the aggressive was not there. It was more like, let's pick up this easy 10 yards so we can kick a field goal and miss. I actually liked how the Eagles was aggressive in sealing the game. We need to play similar to that aggressiveness. Cousins could of won the game if it wasn't the play calling. It was almost like Eagles knew when we would run and pass at the end.

[UK Skins]

I think Brokerstriker really hits this on the head. I'm sure it will upset some people, but there are definitely (pro-Griffin) posters on here that feel that the rest of us (neutrals and the pro-Cousins camp) are being disloyal to "their Starting Quarterback". I really hadn't seen it that way until now but that explains a lot.

 

But the sad thing is, as Broken explains, is that Griffin isn't going to stay loyal to us. You really think he is going to remember that we traded up for him and spent all those draft picks? When we tell him that he isn't worth a long Franchise-QB contract that he is going to remember all the games he has missed injured?

[Brokenstriker]

I feel the play calling in the last series was terrible against Eagles. Instead of running an obvious run play on 1st down, we should of called playaction or something. I liked how we came out at the beginning of the game. I felt it should of ended the same way. I felt the aggressive was not there. It was more like, let's pick up this easy 10 yards so we can kick a field goal and miss. I actually liked how the Eagles was aggressive in sealing the game. We need to play similar to that aggressiveness. Cousins could of won the game if it wasn't the play calling. It was almost like Eagles knew when we would run and pass at the end.

I agree !  Huge fan of play-action ... works when you run well ... but it also works in obvious run situations.  I would have loved to see that called.

[MidPennSkin]

I think Brokerstriker really hits this on the head. I'm sure it will upset some people, but there are definitely (pro-Griffin) posters on here that feel that the rest of us (neutrals and the pro-Cousins camp) are being disloyal to "their Starting Quarterback". I really hadn't seen it that way until now but that explains a lot.

 

But the sad thing is, as Broken explains, is that Griffin isn't going to stay loyal to us. You really think he is going to remember that we traded up for him and spent all those draft picks? When we tell him that he isn't worth a long Franchise-QB contract that he is going to remember all the games he has missed injured?

I agree with this. All I want is to win games, and whichever QB can do that is who we should be playing. Loyalty has little to do with that decision.

[Rskins06]

Actually, the play calling on the last series wasn't as bad as we think (ok, maybe the 2nd and 3rd down calls). On 1st and 10, KC threw the ball Roberts in the flat, had it not been for a GREAT defensive play by Eagles CB, we aren't having this conversation. It was a perfect call and a perfect throw, had it been completed, easy 20 yard gain. On 4th down, had KC hit Garcon on that play, he walks into the endzone. I think sometimes we forget, KC was only making his 5th start. I am willing to bet, he doesn't miss that throw again.

I agree with this. All I want is to win games, and if whichever QB can do that is who we should be playing. Loyalty has little to do with that decision.

The only loyalty I have is to the REDSKINS!  I do think we have some posters here who are more fans of RGIII than they are Redskins.  That is only my opinion based on comments I have read.

[Taylor703]

I feel the play calling in the last series was terrible against Eagles. Instead of running an obvious run play on 1st down, we should of called playaction or something. I liked how we came out at the beginning of the game. I felt it should of ended the same way. I felt the aggressive was not there. It was more like, let's pick up this easy 10 yards so we can kick a field goal and miss. I actually liked how the Eagles was aggressive in sealing the game. We need to play similar to that aggressiveness. Cousins could of won the game if it wasn't the play calling. It was almost like Eagles knew when we would run and pass at the end.

Then god damn receiver was wide open. How the hell was that poor play calling? What more could Gruden have done besides throw the ball himself?

[Rskins06]

Then god damn receiver was wide open. How the hell was that poor play calling? What more could Gruden have done besides throw the ball himself?

Man, that was a bit angry! Not sure what GOD had to do with it though!

[DarkLink]

Then god damn receiver was wide open. How the hell was that poor play calling? What more could Gruden have done besides throw the ball himself?

Strike a nerve?

[Taylor703]

Actually, the play calling on the last series wasn't as bad as we think (ok, maybe the 2nd and 3rd down calls). On 1st and 10, KC threw the ball Roberts in the flat, had it not been for a GREAT defensive play by Eagles CB, we aren't having this conversation. It was a perfect call and a perfect throw, had it been completed, easy 20 yard gain. On 4th down, had KC hit Garcon on that play, he walks into the endzone. I think sometimes we forget, KC was only making his 5th start. I am willing to bet, he doesn't miss that throw again.[/size]

The only loyalty I have is to the REDSKINS!  I do think we have some posters here who are more fans of RGIII than they are Redskins.  That is only my opinion based on comments I have read.

Can we please stop questioning whether or not people like RGIII more than the Redskins? It's petty as hell and it's getting old.

[Stadium-Armory]

Then god damn receiver was wide open. How the hell was that poor play calling? What more could Gruden have done besides throw the ball himself?

 

He's saying that we should not have run the ball on first down. He's not talking about the other downs. I think it was a conservative call at best. I get it we were on the edge of field goal range and he probably didn't want to risk a sack. If we had gained 3 or 4 yards on the play things might have ended differently. So I don't necessarily think it was a bad call we just needed to block / run better and gain some yardage.

[Rskins06]

Can we please stop questioning whether or not people like RGIII more than the Redskins? It's petty as hell and it's getting old.

No

[SouthsideDC]

RGIII does not want to run the read option.  He wanted to transition into a more complete QB (like Aaron Rogers).  The problem is his comfortability running ANY offense besides the Read Option.  He has not shown an ability to pick it up quickly.  Doesn't mean he can't, just hasn't yet.  

See this is weird to me because he has said that he does not want to run the read option so that would mean he's not comfortable in it. I think people have this misconception that its the only offense he ran and therefore label him a running QB. He was a spread offense QB, a lot of shotgun and playing from the pocket but with the concepts related to a Spread offense, Shanny and Kyle thought the read option out of the pistol formation would be good so they got with the coach from Nevada where Kapernick played and introduced it. 

 

RG, problem is not that he can't pick it up quickly because I already know he's too intelligent of a person not to, and nothing about him says he lacks attention to detail. The problem his he needs to be on the field and learn from making mistakes with a new West coast passing concept. He is obviously thinking about what he should do opposed to just knowing already and it slows down his reaction time. That will change with "hours on the saddle" as us bikers say. Kirk has been learning the concepts his entire college career, so he should be better at it.

[Taylor703]

Strike a nerve?

Watching people scramble to blame everything but the bad pass is pathetic. The play was there to be made, it wasn't made. That simple.

No

You should. It's starting to get old.