Does Niles Paul Make the Final Roster?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Outside of a serious injury to Niles I don't see a situation in which he isn't on the 53 this year. Between his special teams prowess and his ability to backup WR, FB, and TE he had a lot of value to our team. As a few posters have already mentioned these are the kinds of players every team needs at the back end of their roster.

 

I think all of that in bold is severely overstated.

 

We have a ****load of quality WRs on the roster right now, all of which are significantly better at the position than Paul. It's not as if Gruden will be telling himself "We may only need to keep 5 WRs since Niles can fill in there" lol...I can't think of any of the top 7 WRs I feel Niles Paul could fill in for and there not be a drop in production.

 

As for backup TE, after Reed was done for the year Paul caught 1 pass the rest of the season. After Davis was done for the year in 2012 Paul caught 4 passes the rest of the season. I'm not exactly sure how Paul's value as 3rd string TE can be measured as anything other than minimal. I keep thinking there's a reason Gruden and Allen keep bringing in different TEs this offseason...can they find one who can occasionallly block well and catch 4 passes when you're bumped up to 2nd string? If so, you're already on even footing value-wise as Niles Paul.

 

As for backup FB lol...just because Paul has occasionally been placed at that position doesn't mean he has any real value at that position. He might, but I'm not ready to assign that value to him just yet.

 

His ST prowess will most likely get him on the final roster, especially if Kotwica "stands on the table" for him...but Paul would have to improve noticeably for his "value" at WR, TE and FB to play any real role in things.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Not only is he a good ST'er, he also is bad ass. Dude has no problem getting in the other teams face and being an enforcer out there

This team needs more swagger (God I hate that word lol)

[Voice_of_Reason]

Draft positions value, ends the second the draft does. Once you're on the team, where you were drafted, what you're being paid, expectations, all of it, becomes second to production IMO. 

I see it as draft position defines your expectations, until they are re-set by something else.  Niles has done nothing to re-set expectations.  He's contributing like a 5th round pick would contribute. 

 

And I'm fine with that.  

 

Though, I would note: to me, Niles is really Just Another Guy.  He's nothing special.  If the team let him go, eh, I wouldn't be heart broken, as long as they could match his production on ST and backup TE.

 

The rookie TE they drafted had the opportunity to push Niles off the roster.  I'm guessing that's why they drafted him.  They said he was tough on ST, and he's a TE, so he could take over the role that Niles has been filling, probably for less money.  But he wasn't able to beat Niles out.  So, he's probably going to end up not on the 53, and we'll see if he is added to the PS. It's possible they don't even bring him back to the PS, if they don't think that he would be an eventual upgrade to Niles.  

[moondog]

Yet another miserable case of the fans here taking an undeserving **** on one of our own.

Niles Paul is a THIRD string tight end people. Please show me a team who's third tight end "contributes" more to the team than special teams unless he is forced to due to injury. Then show me one that actually does contribute more on special teams.

It's not a question of whether we would miss him as fans it's the fact that Niles Paul is EXACTLY what you want for depth/#3 at any position. He can actually play a little bit if needed and he's one of our best special team players.

Neglecting and/or cutting guys like Paul is precisely why our special teams was so terrible last year. You not only want guys like that you need them on your roster.

By all accounts Bolser has looked like a scrub. We sign some tall guy that looks less athletic than a newborn baby deer and suddenly everyone on here calls for Paul's head, again. Despite the fact that several players have mentioned him when asked who's had a camp that really stood out.

There's never a lack of hate for our own players on here for absolutely no reason other than so many on here think our roster should be filled top to bottom with hall of famers and undrafted rookies who are tall and/or fast.

[Thinking Skins]

Yet another miserable case of the fans here taking an undeserving **** on one of our own.

Niles Paul is a THIRD string tight end people. Please show me a team who's third tight end "contributes" more to the team than special teams unless he is forced to due to injury. Then show me one that actually does contribute more on special teams.

Couldn't the same be said about Reed Doughty and we let him go this offseason.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Yet another miserable case of the fans here taking an undeserving **** on one of our own.

Niles Paul is a THIRD string tight end people. Please show me a team who's third tight end "contributes" more to the team than special teams unless he is forced to due to injury. Then show me one that actually does contribute more on special teams.

It's not a question of whether we would miss him as fans it's the fact that Niles Paul is EXACTLY what you want for depth/#3 at any position. He can actually play a little bit if needed and he's one of our best special team players.

Neglecting and/or cutting guys like Paul is precisely why our special teams was so terrible last year. You not only want guys like that you need them on your roster.

By all accounts Bolser has looked like a scrub. We sign some tall guy that looks less athletic than a newborn baby deer and suddenly everyone on here calls for Paul's head, again. Despite the fact that several players have mentioned him when asked who's had a camp that really stood out.

There's never a lack of hate for our own players on here for absolutely no reason other than so many on here think our roster should be filled top to bottom with hall of famers and undrafted rookies who are tall and/or fast.

 

I think the real question is can he be replaced with someone who has more upside. We shouldn't act like finding a player like Paul is rare in the NFL. It's not, by any stretch. As I said in an earlier post, I have zero problem with Paul remaining on the roster, but I also have zero problem with him being replaced. He's not a jack-of-all-trades.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I wanted to address this separately:
 
 

Please show me a team who's third tight end "contributes" more to the team than special teams unless he is forced to due to injury. Then show me one that actually does contribute more on special teams.

 
The "forced to by injury" aspect is exactly why you should care about the production from your 3rd string TE (or any position). Injuries are guaranteed in the NFL, and in the Skins case the last 3-4 years we've seen the apparent #1 TE miss a number of games due to injury (and suspension in Davis' case). I can't fathom any Redskins fan treating injury concerns to the starting TE lightly or brushing it off...There is a HUGE possibility that our #3 TE will see numerous games as the #2 TE. I don't want the TE position to basically be dropped from the offensive scheme because our 3rd string TE was never expected to produce as a TE anyway.
 

[Hail4Life]

Niles should make it as long as Bolser doesn't light it up in these next 3 preseason games. 

[Laxpunk2006]

I think all of that in bold is severely overstated.

 

 

For the most part we'll have to agree to disagree.  I'm in no way saying "you're wrong" as it is largely a matter of opinion, I would just like to clarify my position.

 

We carried 4 TE's last season so even after Reed went down he was still the #3 TE behind Fred and Paulsen as receivers.  I wouldn't expect him to catch many passes but he did start 4 games last season so the former coaching staff did have a level of comfort bringing him in.  

 

As a fullback he fits the mold of what Gruden utilized in Cincinnati.  In 2013 they transitioned Orson Charles from TE to FB and released Jon Connor because they valued a FB that could catch out of the backfield over the traditional road grader FB.

 

It's important not just to look at the roster as a 53 and say Niles wouldn't be a top 7 WR or a top 2 TE but to look at the game day active roster.  If Darrel Young gets hurt there is going to be a drop off if NIles has to finish a game for him but we're still able to run personnel groupings that require a FB if that is what we installed in the game plan that week.  If(when) Reed gets banged up Paul can come in as the second TE.  We'll likely only dress 4 WR's so if one of them pulls a hammy (or worse) and we want to run a spread set (Gruden likes 4 verts)  he can fill in.  Obviously there is going to be a significant drop off but sometimes it worth it to have a guy that can do a lot of things just okay because it allows you to create roster spaces for those other role players and specialists.  

 

In addition he plays both coverage units and returns.  Roster spots are at such a premium especially when it comes to who dresses that you can't always say "Who is the second best guard?  Who is the second best center?"  Sometimes you keep a guy that can play G and C even though you have better individual options.  Paul offers that same versatility at the skill positions.  

 

Again just one fan's take.

[Brokenstriker]

Surprised not much focus on Gruden's experience ... the old "we" isn't the new "we" ... The Bengals sported 2 TEs in the top 25 for receptions and yards.  I think he's looking for someone to complement Reed as a receiver who can also be trusted to block enough to get regular less-readable playing time (figure Paul won't usually be in to hold the edge for a running play, etc.).  I don't know that he will find one but I think he's looking at Paul as not exactly what he wants as the other TE "receiver" and not much of a blocker.  I get the ST think ... but wonder how much weight it holds on an apparent OC/HC desire to have 2 solid TE "receivers" on the field at the same time ... and how much the ST specialists they signed reduce the value of a TE who is really only of value as a ST player.  Don't misunderstand ... I like Paul ... I just wonder if his time is up as soon as the staff can find what they are looking for.

[RandyHolt]

How much did losing Zo cost our special teams? Certainly something, but would he have been a difference maker in making out teams respectable last year? I would say likely not, as our coaching and player management WRT teams was atrocious to non-existent and one player hustling and trucking returners proper once a game can only fix so much. 

 

Point being, how much are our teams dependent on Paul to be respectable this year?  I think Gruden and Allen targeting depth players that can play teams, and getting a proper teams coach, trumps the contributions of any single player. In this case, Paul. 

 

Based on the less than inspiring reports on the kid we drafted to push him, his job should be safe. But i want him to fit into Grudens offense more than fit into our special teams. Reed is injury prone, lets not sugar coat it. Logan has exceeded expectations but is more a war horse, Paul more a WR. So those 2 as backups give Gruden options. 

[RG3Hunna]

Question for the "replace paul" crowd?

 

If paul was cut who would take his spot? Bolser? Bolser has been average to downright TERRIBLE by all reports.

 

Why would we cut Paul and keep bolser? Because a report came out calling him a war daddy on special teams?

 

Remember the report that called Niles the next Shannon Sharpe also? 

 

I refuse to believe positive reports about players until we see it in reflect in games and as of today bolser has been invisible in games except for that colt mccoy TD in garbage 4th quarter time. 

 

Only way Bolser takes Niles spot is if he shows something at TE and Special teams because if Bolser was cut I honestly don't think anybody would pick him up at all he's just a JAG as of now. 

[Hail4Life]

When I think of Niles Paul my mind immediately pictures his falling down catch and getting up to step into the endzone via an RG3 pass against  the Cowgirls on Thanksgiving...the best Thanks I've had.

[moondog]

Couldn't the same be said about Reed Doughty and we let him go this offseason.

 

It absolutely could and should be said about Doughty. There is a reason why Doughty carved out a nice long career with us. He was not let go if memory serves correctly. His contract expired and the team chose not to re-sign him. He was a valuable player and much like Paul he was solid in relief of starters when we needed him on defense and a great special teams player throughout his tenure here. He was exactly what you wanted from a depth player. Just like Paul is. 

 

I think the real question is can he be replaced with someone who has more upside. We shouldn't act like finding a player like Paul is rare in the NFL. It's not, by any stretch. As I said in an earlier post, I have zero problem with Paul remaining on the roster, but I also have zero problem with him being replaced. He's not a jack-of-all-trades.

 

I agree - I have zero problem with him being replaced…by a player that actually earns it. People act like he's some 30 year old vet with no upside. Paul is a FOURTH year player that we drafted on day 3 and he is only 25 years old. By all accounts he has had a very good camp and is an extremely hard worker. So you have a veteran who has actually shown great special teams ability, knows the FB and TE position if needed in a pinch for either and can actually go out there and perform at a level that I would argue is more than adequate for a #3 guy. I would like to have #3 guys that would start for other teams too. The fact is that there is a reasonable drop off from #1 to #3. That's why they aren't the starter. That being said I feel very strongly that Paul is as good or better than many #3 TE's around the league. So I highly doubt anyone beats him out until his contract is up and then we'll see if we re-sign him. Otherwise he likely is our next "Doughty."

 

I wanted to address this separately:

 

 

 

The "forced to by injury" aspect is exactly why you should care about the production from your 3rd string TE (or any position). Injuries are guaranteed in the NFL, and in the Skins case the last 3-4 years we've seen the apparent #1 TE miss a number of games due to injury (and suspension in Davis' case). I can't fathom any Redskins fan treating injury concerns to the starting TE lightly or brushing it off...There is a HUGE possibility that our #3 TE will see numerous games as the #2 TE. I don't want the TE position to basically be dropped from the offensive scheme because our 3rd string TE was never expected to produce as a TE anyway.

 

 

 

And it is precisely why I DO care about the #3. As I said in my post, there is not another guy that has shown anywhere near the ability Paul has this offseason. For those that think Paul sucks so bad, I don't understand how that isn't getting through to people. They want a guy blindly replaced because they don't think he's a stud but the guys on the roster behind him are much, much worse. Like I said, Paul has shown the ability to go out there and perform both FB and TE duties. Of course there is a drop-off from #1 to #3, as I said above. That's why he's #3 and not #2 or #1. But again, I'd argue he's as capable, if not more so than you're typical #3. I'm not brushing off that he may see playing time as the #2. I'm actually advocating him FOR that reason. I actually think we have excellent TE depth between Paulsen and Paul.

 

Niles Paul is another victim of ridiculous expectations from our fan base. Shanahan made the idiotic comparison to Sharpe so anything less than that yielded extreme disappointment from many. The fact is he's a fifth round draft choice that makes a positive impact on special teams and is probably better at TE than your league-wide average #3 TE. I'd say our return for a fifth round draft pick was at a minimum what you would expect for the cost, if not has exceeded it. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Niles had a nice game.  Happy for him!

[Rufus T Firefly]

Definitely haven't seen anything from Bolser to merit a spot.

[Burgold]

Niles had a nice game.  Happy for him!

Actually, two nice games in a row.  He seems better somehow away from the Shannies (he actually can catch?) which is strange because of how strongly they supported him.

[Koolblue13]

Actually, two nice games in a row.  He seems better somehow away from the Shannies (he actually can catch?) which is strange because of how strongly they supported him.

Not if he keeps bruising those tiny hands.

[Brokenstriker]

he played well last night ... I could see him as a nice complement to Reed in a 2 TE set at least in receiver mode

[Brokenstriker]

Yet another miserable case of the fans here taking an undeserving **** on one of our own.

Niles Paul is a THIRD string tight end people. Please show me a team who's third tight end "contributes" more to the team than special teams unless he is forced to due to injury. Then show me one that actually does contribute more on special teams.

It's not a question of whether we would miss him as fans it's the fact that Niles Paul is EXACTLY what you want for depth/#3 at any position. He can actually play a little bit if needed and he's one of our best special team players.

Neglecting and/or cutting guys like Paul is precisely why our special teams was so terrible last year. You not only want guys like that you need them on your roster.

By all accounts Bolser has looked like a scrub. We sign some tall guy that looks less athletic than a newborn baby deer and suddenly everyone on here calls for Paul's head, again. Despite the fact that several players have mentioned him when asked who's had a camp that really stood out.

There's never a lack of hate for our own players on here for absolutely no reason other than so many on here think our roster should be filled top to bottom with hall of famers and undrafted rookies who are tall and/or fast.

Just to be sure I reread this entire thread ... nobody has taken a shot at Paul other than perhaps me who simply wonders if he's going to make the roster and given that's a fundemental part of competative football its nowhere near a shot.  Just trying to sort out the observables ... Paul a good ST player, a decent TE receiver albeit relatively small for the modern version of a top tier TE, a medicore blocking TE and a unremarkable receiver as a WR is on the roster.  They drafted a TE (who doesn't look very good to me) and they have brought in at least 3 other TEs since the off-season ... all of whom are notably tall and have decent college and in some cases pro receiver creds.  I'm just wondering if there is a HC position behind this ... and considering Gruden's offense is Cinncy featuring 2 top 25 TE receivers I suspect he'd LOVE to have another player more like Reed to bookend with Reed ... and that he doesn't see Paul as that guy.  Doesn't mean he won't make the roster and doesn't mean I think he should be cut.  I'd cut him in a heart beat if someone like Gresham or Eifert could be added .... I figure the coach is motoring his boat along and he figures he might as well just trail a baited line while he's at it.

[pjfootballer]

Swiss Army Niles. Good game.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Swiss Army Niles. Good game.

Yeah, he seemed to have a pretty good game yesterday.  Saw him catch a ball or two.  

 

I've always maintained, you could do better for a 3rd string TE, but you could also do a whole lot worse. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Actually, two nice games in a row.  He seems better somehow away from the Shannies (he actually can catch?) which is strange because of how strongly they supported him.

 

He had 1 reception for 7 yards against NE...is your assessment of Paul having "two nice games in a row" based on other aspects? (I didn't watch the whole game)

[Dark Acre]

Paul a good ST player, a decent TE receiver albeit relatively small for the modern version of a top tier TE, a mediocre blocking TE and a unremarkable receiver as a WR is on the roster.

You could do a whole lot worse in filling out your roster.  Remember, mediocre = average.

[martytheman]

Niles makes it easily. Bolser may end up on the ps, but no way NP doesn't make it.