CBS Philly - Desean Jackson Was a Problem for Kelly, Eagles Locker Room

[SWFLSkins]

Rich Tandler ‏@Rich_TandlerCSN  Apr 4

@HTTR24_7 Not necessarily teammates. “Sources in and around the team”. Serious weaksauce

... that has produced coaches like Bill Walsh, Chip Kelly, Pete Carroll, and Jim Harbaugh,.

 

 

Stay on topic, this is about DeSean and Chip O'Kelly, you want to laud Kelly's coaching ability join a Pac board. 

[Oregon Ducks Fan]

Stay on topic, this is about DeSean and Chip O'Kelly, you want to laud Kelly's coaching ability join a Pac board.

Sorry, just responded to posse87's misinformation.

[roanoker]

The good news about the subject of this post is that it has been resolved.  We signed him.

[Hail Em Up]

Can anyone tell me how many times D.Jax was benched last year for being this terrible team mate and being insubordinate to his head coach?  Anyone?

[posse87]

Sorry, just responded to posse87's misinformation.

It's laughable your comparing Kelly to Walsh or any superbowl winning coach for that matter.....at least 4 teams in the SEC would destroy Oregon year in and year out.  Saban turned Miami around in his first year and went 9-7.  He would have been a good NFL coach if he wasn't lured away by Alabama.

[TSO]

Of course it makes sense because it was the first and only year he had Chip Kelly as his head coach. DeSean's production had been steadily declining during the previous four years under Andy Reid:

 

2009: 62 receptions 1,156 yards 9 TDs receiving and 2 TDs on punt returns

2010: 47 receptions 1,056 yards 6 TDs

2011: 58 receptions 961 yards 4 TDs

2012: 45 receptions 700 yards 2 TDs

 

You forgot to mention how the entire team went down hill with Andy Reid after the 2010 season. Of course Desean's stats suffered. Lesean McCoy was awful in 2012, remember? Not to mention Desean was injured in 2012 if I recall correctly.

 

You could've basically posted ANY skill player for the Eagle's stats and shown how they've "been declining under Andy Reid". 

 

That was pretty disingenuous of you right there, to be honest.    

[Sea Bass]

For most long term contracts in the NFL, a large amount of the money is in the final few years.  Typically, a player never sees that money.  When the contract reaches the back end, a team will either extend them or get rid of them.

The Eagles are notoriously stringy with their contracts.  They have a philosophy that anybody can be replaced. A player basically gets 2 big contracts and they are done.  If the player signs as a rookie, they get their rookie contract and another contract.  Then they get kicked to the curb.  

How did they keep McNabb for so long?  He signed a 7 year rookie contract (1st contract) and then, 3 years later, in 2002, he signed a 12 year extension (2nd contract).  As with most contracts, he never saw the last few years of the contract.  He was traded to us in 2010.

In the case of DeSean Jackson, he was a high 2nd round pick, so he got a relatively large rookie contract (1st contract).  Then in 2012, he signed a 5 year $48 million contract (2nd contract).

By 2014, he reached the expensive final few years of the new contract that the player usually never sees.  His 2014 salary was $10.25 million with huge salaries in 2015 ($9.75 million) and 2016 ($8.25 million).  Since Jackson already had 2 large contracts with the Eagles, he was not going to get another large contract.  His days were numbered.

In January, a reporter actually asked him about it, and he said he thought his play deserved a new contract.  That was quickly rebuffed by the media.

That means there were only 2 options left.  Either, the thrifty Eagles would spend an exorbitant $10.25 million salary to keep him, or they would get rid of him.  Unsurprisingly, they chose the cheaper option - following their philosophy that anybody can be replaced.
 

[skinpride1]

I don't care if he is a "me" kind of guy. The guy is a baller ,has speed and is a game changer. The skins where 3-13 team last year that had holes everywhere. I don't mind the team first minded guys but you are not going to win in the NFL with mediocre team first players...YOU ARE NOT!!!  Take Sherman on the seahawks not exactly a picture perfect team mate but he is a baller..hopefully Jackson will tone his attitude down but I think the skins will benefit by bringing him on the team.

[FrFan]

I hope the medias will stop talking about that, move on. DeSean is now a Redskin forget about the Eagles, they're going to be very sorry year in year out.

[elkabong82]

Can anyone tell me how many times D.Jax was benched last year for being this terrible team mate and being insubordinate to his head coach?  Anyone?

 

Exactly.

 

He and Kelly clashed, the team owed him a lot of money and the owner is notoriously cheap, and the team then leaked "gang affiliation" stuff as a way to keep fans on their side. Otherwise, nobody in their right mind would view a coach favorably who just lost the star WR because he couldn't manage a good working relationship with him. 

 

But I'm sure Philly fans will be happy when Maclin can't play an entire season and Cooper fizzles out again. I'm sure Foles won't come down to Earth and show everybody why Kelly had no faith in him to start last season.

[RonArtest15]

The thing that gets me is the "anonymous" sources/teammates that have things to say now that he's gone.  I don't respect ANY of that.  Put your name to the quote if he irked you that much.  A bunch of crap if you ask me.  Total smear campaign.  It's a transparent as some blown glass. 

[Oregon Ducks Fan]

You forgot to mention how the entire team went down hill with Andy Reid after the 2010 season.

 

That was pretty disingenuous of you right there, to be honest.

Not really. Your point would be valid if I had only included DeSean's stats after 2010 (2011 and 2012), but his stats show a 4-year decline that began before 2010.

The thing is people keep saying "1300 yards and 9 TDs" like that is DeSean's norm, but it isn't. He did that one year in Chip Kelly's Eagles offense, but he is no longer in that offense. His career average stats pre-Kelly were 55 catches, 957 yards, and 4.6 touchdowns per year. Respectable but not spectacular for someone being paid and promoted as a #1 receiver.

The other thing about DeSean is he is great against poor-to-middling teams, but when the team needed him to really step up against good teams and in big games, he disappeared. Even during his career year last year:

 

• Kansas City: 3 catches, 62 yards, 0 TDs
• Denver: 2 catches, 34 yards, 0 TDs
• Arizona: 3 catches, 36 yards, 0 TDs
• Dallas de facto NFCE championship game: 3 catches, 28 yards, 0 TDs
• New Orleans playoff game: 3 catches, 53 yards, 0 TDs

 

Another factor that is often overlooked is that there is an adjustment period when a free agent goes to a new city and new team. Six-time NFL Executive of the Year Bill Polian described it:

 

 

"The third (danger) is that when a player changes teams and changes systems and changes his locale, he's going to have an adjustment period, and I think that is something that is missed by most analysts and by most fans. Football is not a seamless transition. Basketball is, baseball is, hockey, to some degree is; football is not. Systems change, people have a difficult time enough adjusting to begin with, and then if you have a system change or a technique change, it's even worse. You can typically find that a player doesn't play to his maximum in the first year in a new free-agent situation. It may take him a year to get adjust, and that's a year that you've lost but you've paid pretty big money for, so that's the other danger."

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Polian-Previews-Free-Agency-/10d6baf0-893d-42bf-a524-fe46041d906c

 

It is unlikely DeSean is going to have a year anything close to last year. It is much more likely he is going to fall back to his pre-Kelly career averages at best.

 

[BurgundyandGold44]

The thing is with Philly - I don't really see a leader. Who in the locker room has a huge of an ego as Desean?

Here in Washington on the other hand have tons of vocal players. Look at D.Hall - team guy that can talk with the best of them. You got Ryan Clark coming in and even RGIII setting the example.

I think our locker room will be able to handle a personality like Desean's. He'll be a perfect fit.

[Oregon Ducks Fan]

The thing is with Philly - I don't really see a leader.

That's significant. Last year Michael Vick and Jason Avant used to try to calm down DeSean. The word is DeSean often clashed with wide receiver coach Bob Bicknell. Fellow wide receiver Jason Avant had to try to keep the peace between them. When DeSean had a temper tantrum on the field or on the sidelines it was usually Avant who was trying to calm him down. DeSean looked up to Vick and called him his "big bro". Both Vick and Avant are no longer with the Eagles, so there is no veteran on the team that DeSean respects to try to keep DeSean under control. That was probably a factor that was considered in the decision to fire DeSean.

[Lavarleap56]

Not really. Your point would be valid if I had only included DeSean's stats after 2010 (2011 and 2012), but his stats show a 4-year decline that began before 2010.

The thing is people keep saying "1300 yards and 9 TDs" like that is DeSean's norm, but it isn't. He did that one year in Chip Kelly's Eagles offense, but he is no longer in that offense. His career average stats pre-Kelly were 55 catches, 957 yards, and 4.6 touchdowns per year. Respectable but not spectacular for someone being paid and promoted as a #1 receiver.

The other thing about DeSean is he is great against poor-to-middling teams, but when the team needed him to really step up against good teams and in big games, he disappeared. Even during his career year last year:

 

• Kansas City: 3 catches, 62 yards, 0 TDs
• Denver: 2 catches, 34 yards, 0 TDs
• Arizona: 3 catches, 36 yards, 0 TDs
• Dallas de facto NFCE championship game: 3 catches, 28 yards, 0 TDs
• New Orleans playoff game: 3 catches, 53 yards, 0 TDs

 

Another factor that is often overlooked is that there is an adjustment period when a free agent goes to a new city and new team. Six-time NFL Executive of the Year Bill Polian described it:

 

 

It is unlikely DeSean is going to have a year anything close to last year. It is much more likely he is going to fall back to his pre-Kelly career averages at best.

 

 

LOL...  You understand that stats are pretty meaningless without context right?

 

You want to talk about the stats vs KC,Denver,Dallas,& New Orleans like they prove your argument. How about we talk about the how inaccurate M.Vick early in the season vs teams like KC & Denver, or do you not remember him throwing balls into the ground or 5 feet over Jacksons heard when he was open in those games? We can look at Foles having accuracy issues,throwing into double coverage, & Mathieu sniffing out a screen to D.Jackson vs Arizona. Can we talk about Foles being inaccurate under pressure vs New Orleans and missing Djax wide open a few times? Oh and I almost forgot the 40+ pass interference penalty he drew vs New Orleans to put Philly in scoring position on the goal line.. 

 

Throw the stats out the window and look at what a player like D.Jackson opened up for guys that played with him. You don't think D.Jackson drawing coverage & safety help opened up guys like Riley freaking Cooper or didn't make life a little easier on L.McCoy? 

 

Fact is Desean Jackson could have a less impressive statistical season in 2014 and still have a bigger impact for the Redskins than he had in Philly last season. It's about how the pieces fit together and if you think Riley Cooper had a good season then check out how Pierre Garcon benefits from playing with Desean. 

 

Now back to your Kelly love fest... 

[Oregon Ducks Fan]

LOL...  You understand that stats are pretty meaningless without context right?

 

You want to talk about the stats vs KC,Denver,Dallas,& New Orleans like they prove your argument. How about we talk about the how inaccurate M.Vick early in the season vs teams like KC & Denver, or do you not remember him throwing balls into the ground or 5 feet over Jacksons heard when he was open in those games? We can look at Foles having accuracy issues,throwing into double coverage, & Mathieu sniffing out a screen to D.Jackson vs Arizona. Can we talk about Foles being inaccurate under pressure vs New Orleans and missing Djax wide open a few times? Oh and I almost forgot the 40+ pass interference penalty he drew vs New Orleans to put Philly in scoring position on the goal line.. 

 

Throw the stats out the window and look at what a player like D.Jackson opened up for guys that played with him. You don't think D.Jackson drawing coverage & safety help opened up guys like Riley freaking Cooper or didn't make life a little easier on L.McCoy? 

 

Fact is Desean Jackson could have a less impressive statistical season in 2014 and still have a bigger impact for the Redskins than he had in Philly last season. It's about how the pieces fit together and if you think Riley Cooper had a good season then check out how Pierre Garcon benefits from playing with Desean. 

 

Now back to your Kelly love fest...

So basically you are saying DeSean's performance in those games is everyone else's fault except DeSean's. Yet those same inaccurate, incompetent quarterbacks were able to make DeSean look good against lesser teams. The fact remains with the rest of the team being the same with either quarterback, DeSean racked up his impressive stats last year against lesser teams, and then disappeared when it mattered.

I don't doubt that DeSean will have a bigger impact with the Redskins, relatively speaking, than he had with the Eagles last year, because Kelly will scheme to minimize the impact of DeSean's absence.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've come around a bit on the signing, I was initially really against it.  But since the deal seems team friendly should things go south, I feel a bit better about it.  

 

What I don't understand is the amount of Skins fans out there who are acting like there's nothing to worry about.  There's obviously something to worry about.  

 

Here's hoping he grows up, is a good guy on and off the field and makes three more Pro Bowls while he's here and everyone loves him.  

[Lavarleap56]

So basically you are saying DeSean's performance in those games is everyone else's fault except DeSean's. Yet those same inaccurate, incompetent quarterbacks were able to make DeSean look good against lesser teams. 

 

No.. What I'm saying is the stats you used to prove your position are meaningless without context.

 

 

The fact remains with the rest of the team being the same with either quarterback, DeSean racked up his impressive stats last year against lesser teams, and then disappeared when it mattered.

 

That's not a fact that's YOUR opinion. The film of those games does not support your argument, period end of story. 

 

 

I don't doubt that DeSean will have a bigger impact with the Redskins, relatively speaking, than he had with the Eagles last year, because Kelly will scheme to minimize the impact of DeSean's absence.

 

Think you give Chip Kelly too much credit. He's a good offensive mind but he needs players just like everyone else does. 

[Redskins Life]

So, have you done something similar?  When a normal white person gets drunk, it's understandable for them to call people racial epithets? 

- First, I'm not white and I'm not sure why you are insinuating in your post that only white people could use racial epithets.  You could have asked about "a normal person," but you didn't.  Interesting.  (I don't believe you are or were trying to be racist; I don't know you.  I am , however, trying to make  a point about how silly people get when focusing on a word.)

 

- Second, I don't care what color/race a person is, EVERYONE, has had at least one moment in his/her life where he/she has done or has said things that caused him or her to regret it later.  Especially if they have been heavily under the influence of alcohol. 

 

- Third, I have plenty of white and asian friends that have used that word in front of me and I have no issue with that, because I know them, and I know that them using a word that is part of mainstream pop culture today does not in anyway make them a racist. 

 

The stadium isn't the place to dive into the political side of this argument, but the fact is that a word only has as much power as a person gives it.  People who want to keep referring to Cooper as a racist, a guy that has been playing a sport with a much higher rate of Blacks than Whites the vast majority of his life, that has live and roomed with Black teammates, and that was supported by many Black people who actually know him after his stupid rant, are only looking for what they want to see and believing what they want to believe. 

 

As far as the support for Jackson in this thread, it is very hypocritical.  Many of the fans in this thread that are defending Jackson and bemoaning the Eagles for releasing him would have said the exact opposite about the guy three weeks ago.  Now that he has changed his uniform colors, many fans seemed to have changed their colors as well.  The fact is that there is a LOT of "what if's" about this new marriage of player and team that won't be answered until games are underway, and it may take more than just this upcoming season for the true picture of Jackson's character and his relationship with this staff and players to be known.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Sorry, just responded to posse87's misinformation.

Seriously brah

Why do you post here??

Are you an eagles fan? You seem to just be a Kelly stan.

What possessed you to make an account here?

[posse87]

No.. What I'm saying is the stats you used to prove your position are meaningless without context.

 

 

 

That's not a fact that's YOUR opinion. The film of those games does not support your argument, period end of story. 

 

 

 

Think you give Chip Kelly too much credit. He's a good offensive mind but he needs players just like everyone else does. 

Too much credit....he is totally delusional!  As I said before Chip Kelly has a ton to prove before he can be considered a good NFL coach.  Admittedly, he is off to a pretty good start, but there is a year of film on his offense, the defense was average, and you can't coach throwing 2 interceptions again.  Foles will start trowing more picks, particularly with DJax gone.

[Oregon Ducks Fan]

Seriously brah

Why do you post here??

Are you an eagles fan? You seem to just be a Kelly stan.

What possessed you to make an account here?

Seriously brah, I am a registered member of the official forums of all four NFC East teams. I am an Eagles fan but I enjoy reading what the fans of the other teams think. If you read my past posts I'm not here to talk trash or brag, that's not my style. Almost all of my posts are to correct some misstatement of fact that someone made i.e. DeSean didn't like Kelly's offense and it tweaked his hamstrings, DeSean was NEVER arrested, DeSean was NEVER benched, etc. etc. or to respond to someone who directly responded to me.

Just here to share information and talk football.

Too much credit....he is totally delusional!  As I said before Chip Kelly has a ton to prove before he can be considered a good NFL coach.

No, what you said before was Chip Kelly was "nothing more than an above average college coach", which is hilarious, laughable, and totally delusional, to use your favorite terms.

[LD0506]

What I wonder is whether there are other Kelly fanboy trolls assigned to haunt the NY and Dallas message boards just in case anyone mentions the Chipster there

 

 

Oh, I see you are doing it all yourself? Kudos on the multitasking

[TSO]

Not really. Your point would be valid if I had only included DeSean's stats after 2010 (2011 and 2012), but his stats show a 4-year decline that began before 2010.

The thing is people keep saying "1300 yards and 9 TDs" like that is DeSean's norm, but it isn't. He did that one year in Chip Kelly's Eagles offense, but he is no longer in that offense. His career average stats pre-Kelly were 55 catches, 957 yards, and 4.6 touchdowns per year. Respectable but not spectacular for someone being paid and promoted as a #1 receiver.

The other thing about DeSean is he is great against poor-to-middling teams, but when the team needed him to really step up against good teams and in big games, he disappeared. Even during his career year last year:

• Kansas City: 3 catches, 62 yards, 0 TDs
• Denver: 2 catches, 34 yards, 0 TDs
• Arizona: 3 catches, 36 yards, 0 TDs
• Dallas de facto NFCE championship game: 3 catches, 28 yards, 0 TDs
• New Orleans playoff game: 3 catches, 53 yards, 0 TDs

 

Not really. My point is valid. In fact, my point is even MORE VALIDATED now after this post of yours because you're as disingenuous as I thought. Let's look a little closer at the 2009 and 2010 numbers you posted, shall we?

 

• 2009: 62 receptions 1,156 yards 9 TDs receiving and 2 TDs on punt return
• 2010: 47 receptions 1,056 yards 6 TDs

 

 

So, at first glance, it's not a huge decline. But, yeah, if one simply looked at those stats alone they could say it's a decline and have a legitimate case. But here's where the dis-ingenuity on your part comes from. Since you like lists, let me put your disingenuous nature (with regards to your argument) in one for you:

• 1- WHAT YOU DON'T SAY is that Desean didn't play in 2 games in the 2010 season. In 2009, he only missed one game. So that's basically an extra game of stats helping him out in 2009 over 2010. The difference between 2009 and 2010 was 100 yards and 3 TDs. Desean is the type of player who could've made that really close in one more game. 
•  
• 2- WHAT YOU DON'T SAY AS WELL is that Desean had less help from Maclin in 2009, who played in 15 games but only started in 13. Maclin was a better overall player in 2010 AND STARTED EVERY SINGLE GAME. That, alone, should've made quite a dent in Desean's stats between 2009 and 2010, yet, the dent was very minimal

So, my question to you is, why would you respond to my valid point about Andy Reid's declining offense as A WHOLE with focusing on 2009 and 2010 as some significant decline for Desean, when you conveniently omitted games started as well as Maclin's performance opposite of Desean? 

 

I honestly have to wonder, did you see those two things and just posted the stats that would benefit your argument or do you not understand how to look at stats in their proper context? It's either or there, bro.

[posse87]

Seriously brah, I am a registered member of the official forums of all four NFC East teams. I am an Eagles fan but I enjoy reading what the fans of the other teams think. If you read my past posts I'm not here to talk trash or brag, that's not my style. Almost all of my posts are to correct some misstatement of fact that someone made i.e. DeSean didn't like Kelly's offense and it tweaked his hamstrings, DeSean was NEVER arrested, DeSean was NEVER benched, etc. etc. or to respond to someone who directly responded to me.

Just here to share information and talk football.

 

No, what you said before was Chip Kelly was "nothing more than an above average college coach", which is hilarious, laughable, and totally delusional, to use your favorite terms.

 

Any college coach is suspect in the NFL.....it's the reason that most NFL teams hire coordinators instead of college coaches.  If Kelly was so good, how did he lose to Chizik.  You can't claim it was Cam Newton....he had probably his worst game of the season in that championship game, and Kelly's "mastermind offense" could only put up 19 points against a chizik defense and he isn't even a coach in college football anymore.