ESPN: Kirk Cousins Open to Being Traded

[mistertim]

Wasn't there a report that the Skins put it out there that Cousins could be had for a 2nd and nobody bit?

 

Also, come on. Are we seriously getting into mental gymnastics where we try to prove that "if x or y happened differently in this game then it would all be different" and cherry picking stats then saying "that's pretty good for anyone outside of <insert elite QB here>". It's ridiculous to do that and you all know it. Were the losses all on Cousins? Of course not. Did he play well overall? Meh, not especially. He didn't look good in spot duty against Denver or KC, had a pretty good game against Atlanta, a mediocre game against Dallas, and a horrible game against the Giants. Who cares how many yards he threw for if he was throwing with 40 and 50 percent completion to go along with plenty of turnovers?

 

I think a 2nd rounder is a pipe dream at this point and I'm guessing the Skins know it. Would I take a 3rd for him? Probably, though he is at least a competent backup so you have to weigh that in.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I think a 2nd rounder is a bit of a pipe dream, but possibly a realistic one of the chips fall right. Of course, we said we weren't interested in trading him but would field calls for a 2nd rounder. The issue is that Cousins' trade value has always kind of been floated as being highest during the draft. That's when teams will see what they can get, where they can get it, then reassess.

Example. If Bortles goes #1 to Houston, Bridgewater goes #3 to JAX, Manziel goes #8 to Minnesota and a surprise team like Arizona drafts Carr at 20 ... then you've got a couple teams that might be looking QB ala the Browns and Raiders who didn't get their guy in the 1st and aren't willing to reach in the 2nd.

 

Cleveland is most intriguing ... because they have 2 3rds and 2 4ths ... and they might not be willing to give us pick 35 for Cousins but maybe they offer us their 3rd and 4th (picks 71 and 106) ... which would equal a trade value of 300 which is a low 2nd ... which might be more in line with Cousins' value instead of an early 2, if that makes sense.

 

Redskins fans have stated they'd take a 3rd ... and a 3rd and 4th would be nice in this draft ... so I'd jump on that too. Picking at 34, 66, 71, 102 and 106 would give us a lot of options and flexibility within the first 100 or so players off the board. OT, ILB, FS, CB, DL could all be had with those picks.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

It's also important to look beyond the teams best positioned RIGHT NOW, before the draft. Saint Louis could trade back from #2 and get a 2nd and 3rd. Cleveland could trade off #4 and get another 2nd+ ... or a littany of other situations could develop that could give a team we don't think is in play for Cousins right now more flexibility to take a flyer on him.

 

Example ... St. Louis trading #2 back for a mid 1st, 2nd, 3rd ... would give them 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 2 thirds, and more ammo to trade for Cousins to push/replace Bradford. Cleveland, same thing applies. Could trade from #4 to the mid-1st and get another 2nd and 3rd. That would give them 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 3 thirds, 2 fourths ... and a lot of "extra" flexibility to trade a pick or two for Cousins to compete with Hoyer. Arizona could be a wildcard too ... maybe they think Cousins would be a perfect replacement for Palmer ... and offer us their mid-2nd.

 

Anyway, lot of possibilities.

[mistertim]

Oh I don't doubt at all that a lot can happen on draft day and it depends on who goes where and what trades are made. I just don't see his value as a 2nd rounder unless a team really needs a QB and really doesn't like anyone available in the 2nd where they're picking. I could see the 3rd and 4th in your scenario as a potential.

[MustangSteve]

I hope Cousins stays, I think he will end up being a pretty good QB. The one we need to get rid of is Grossman, just for roster space and salary.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I hope Cousins stays, I think he will end up being a pretty good QB. The one we need to get rid of is Grossman, just for roster space and salary.

Okay, again, Grossman is already gone. Was a free agent ... we have 3 QBs right now ... RGIII, Cousins, Colt McCoy ...

 

Also, if Cousins is what you think, and becomes a pretty good QB ... he's only under contract for 2 more years. If you think he'll be with us beyond 2015 you're insane. He's going to leave. We might as well get something for him while we still hold his value.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Wasn't there a report that the Skins put it out there that Cousins could be had for a 2nd and nobody bit?

 

What does this matter? This is the same tired argument that some make here that if a team isn't willing to trade for a player he isn't "worth it". That's not remotely even true

 

Also, come on. Are we seriously getting into mental gymnastics where we try to prove that "if x or y happened differently in this game then it would all be different" and cherry picking stats then saying "that's pretty good for anyone outside of <insert elite QB here>". It's ridiculous to do that and you all know it. Were the losses all on Cousins? Of course not. Did he play well overall? Meh, not especially. He didn't look good in spot duty against Denver or KC, had a pretty good game against Atlanta, a mediocre game against Dallas, and a horrible game against the Giants. Who cares how many yards he threw for if he was throwing with 40 and 50 percent completion to go along with plenty of turnovers?

 

Spot duty is exactly that, when the teams down 2 scores and there is less then 5 minutes to play in a game what are you expecting exactly? Judge a QB by his starts and don't put all of the blame on a single player when every single play can determine a game. His start in Atlanta he threw for over 350 passing yards and 3 TD's. What more do you expect out of a guy making his second career NFL start. I think the problem here is your expecting someone to come in and play like Griffin did his first game of his career but that's unreasonable.  

 

Andrew Luck needed almost his entire 16 game rookie season to throw for 3 or more TD's (Happened for him only 1 time in week 13 his 12th career start his rookie year). You can downplay this for Cousins but look at the other players at his position and how they do. Russell Wilson needed 6 starts before he threw for 3 scores and in his first 16 games starting he didn't throw for 300 passing yards. Cousins has done it twice in his first 4 starts. Career starts are not the same at all as spot duty. 

 

The point here is there is a loud voice here that ignores what Cousins was able to do in 4 starts and because he is a Redskin there seems to be too much talk in the negative about him and knowing the track record of the Redskins he likely will go on from here and have a great career. 

[NewCliche21]

Okay, again, Grossman is already gone. Was a free agent ... we have 3 QBs right now ... RGIII, Cousins, Colt McCoy ...

 

Also, if Cousins is what you think, and becomes a pretty good QB ... he's only under contract for 2 more years. If you think he'll be with us beyond 2015 you're insane. He's going to leave. We might as well get something for him while we still hold his value.

 

I think that this needs to be repeated at least every five posts.  He's either gone now or in 2015 (a year older and less attractive) and we get something for him or he's gone in 2016 and we get nothing.  He won't stick around to sit on the bench and he'll be very inexpensive.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Okay, again, Grossman is already gone. Was a free agent ... we have 3 QBs right now ... RGIII, Cousins, Colt McCoy ...

 

Also, if Cousins is what you think, and becomes a pretty good QB ... he's only under contract for 2 more years. If you think he'll be with us beyond 2015 you're insane. He's going to leave. We might as well get something for him while we still hold his value.

 

 

Generally agree with you but this last bit has me a bit twisted off. 

 

I hate when I see something like the bolded part. I hate it. Why? Because we don't know the future. No one knows whats in the future or what it holds for this team. Every single guess at predicting what will happen is exactly that...a guess. Another word for guess is possibility. What you said there is but one possibility and there are many others. 

 

Here is one...Griffin gets hurt again and can't play anymore and Cousins takes over

Here is another one....Griffin sucks and Cousins plays better then he does and takes over

Here is another one...Griffin decides not to re-sign with this team in '16 and leaves

 

 

Those are but a few possibilities for what the future holds for this team. Generally when speculating on the future for as many possibilities you get right, you will get one wrong. It's not just you, I do the same thing and we all do. We think we know the future and time and again we are all proven to be wrong. Hell this week the Rams are offering 100k to anyone who could predict the future and be right about it. They know that the future can not be fore told. 

 

My point is this business about "we might as well get something for him now because 2 years down the road he's gone" could be flat out wrong to do. We don't know this. The fear of losing Cousins and getting nothing back is just silly. How many of this teams 4th round picks ever did anything from the last 15 years?

 

Michael Moore G

Sage Rosenfels QB

Manuel White FB

Perry Riley LB

Roy Helu RB

Kirk Cousins QB

Keenan Robinson LB

Phillip Thomas S

 

That's the full list of players that this team has selected since 2000 in the 4th round. Besides Riley who else was re-signed past the rookie deal? 

 

Having Cousins around here doesn't hurt any one except maybe Colt McCoy. Colt McCoy is garbage, has a 6-15 starting record, has a total of one 300 yard passing game and 0 games with 3 TD passes in 21 career starts and sucks. He is terrible. He isn't the answer to this team other then having a camp arm to use before he gets cuts or if the team wants to go full tank mode should Griffin re-injures himself. You have to look at all of the possibilities not just be afraid that a 4th round pick leaves this team and they get nothing for it. 

I think that this needs to be repeated at least every five posts.  He's either gone now or in 2015 (a year older and less attractive) and we get something for him or he's gone in 2016 and we get nothing.  He won't stick around to sit on the bench and he'll be very inexpensive.

 

And you get rid of him now worrying that your not going to get anything from his 4th round draft pick status, start the season and pray to whatever that he isn't needed and should the likely possibility arise and he is needed or the team finds itself looking for a QB starter and he's gone and then what? The future guessing game works multiple directions not just in the direction of fear. 

[Conn]

When a Dallas fan says he would trade us a 3rd and be happy that should tell you 1) he is a starter or at least a legit possibility at starter with upside 2) A draft pick in the 2nd or 3rd isn't crazy.

Or it should tell me that that particular Dallas fan is a moron. But hey. Maybe not.

[redskinpigskin]

I think the only way we should trade Cousins is if some team blows us away with an offer.  A high second round pick, or multiple picks, etc.  He has put up good numbers for a 4th round pick.  I kind of like the idea of having a franchise QB (RG3), a solid backup who can start (Cousins), and a third string guy who has been a starter (McCoy).   Look at where we were a few years ago with Beck/Grossman.  I want to enjoy having QB depth for a change!!! 

[Mocountyskins]

It's very rare to win a SB with a back up QB. It's very rare for a team to be succesful if their starting QB goes down for more than 2 games. So idk all the hype about wanting to keep Kirk as a back up. You can find another QB who can come in and play 2 games if needed. If your QB is out longer than that then i'm sorry but chances are slim that you are going to go anywhere. We shouldent also live in fear of our QB going down. The last Superbowl team that won because of a good back up or even had a decent back up on their roster was Tom Brady and New England.A decent scenario would be trading Kirk for a 3rd and then being able to get Boyd in the 5th. I know you can't predict who is going to be available in each round and stuff but that's just a thought. If Rob goes down for more than a few games our season is over it doesnt matter who the QB is.

You were going to get a 2nd for Kirk if he didnt play at all last year. He played enough his rookie year to build up in the imaginations of other coaches. The more he played after that it could only get worse. And last year his stock droped. You want someone that you are trying to deal to play as little as possible because most of the time value only goes down.

[ultravin]

if a team offers two third rounders or early third and fourth rounder, i would take it.

 

cleveland would likely be the team to trade of cousins.  if for some reason they do not pick a quarterback with their first three picks, i can see them trying to trade for cousins.  their two third rounders for him or their later third round and fourth rounder would sound intriguing.

[RG3Hunna]

If a team offers me a 2nd or a very early 3rd round pick for cousins i'm JUMPING on that. This is arguably the deepest draft class in the last 15 years and you could find a starter in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

 

I like Kirk Cousins BUT it's obvious we're building this team around RGIII and the holes/lack of talent at MLB, RT, CB, FS,SS are positions that are holding us back from competing for a superbowl. Having Kirk Cousins sit on the bench is pointless if we can get a 2nd or early 3rd for him because this team already bet all their chips when they traded 3 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick for the rights to draft RGIII.

 

This team is being built to win now and if we can get 2 or 3 starters/future starters you have to jump at that chance.

 

Possible 2nd/3rd round prospects

Louis Nix DT

Morgan Moses RT

Kelvin Benjamin WR

Ryan Shazier MLB

Kyle Fuller CB

Joel Bitonio RT

Xavier Sua Filo G

CJ Mosley MLB

Cyrus Kouandjio RT

Martavis Bryant WR

Kyle Van Noy OLB/MLB

Stephon Tuitt DE

Chris Broland MLB

Marcus Roberson CB

Jimmie Ward S

Cody Lattimer WR

Timmy Jernigan DT

Demarcus Lawrence OLB

Scott Crichton DE

David Yankey G

Carl Bradford MLB

Cameron Flemming RT

Travis Swanson C

Austin Sefarin Jenkins TE

Lemarcus Joyner CB

Jake Mewhort RT

Christian Jones MLB

Billy Turner RT

Luchiez Purify CB

Cyril Richardson G

Lache Seastrunk RB

Shayne Skov MLB

Marcus Smith OLB

Brandon Coleman WR

Seantrel Henderson RT

 

 

 

Right now with our 2nd round and 3rd round pick we're able to select 2 players out of that pool of talent I wrote down. Trading Kirk Cousins allows us to field 3 players out of that pool of talent.

 

could you imagine Cyrus Kouandjio, Austin Sefarin Jenkins and Christian Jones being those selections? Would be DEADLY!!!! 

[Mocountyskins]

If someone offered a 2nd round for Kirk I would not take it because you are not suppose to take advantage of challenged people.

[Bonez3]

Well, as much as most are saying this is one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. I think it's equally the most uncertain QB draft as well. The top 3 prospects can go #1 overall or as late as second round. SOOOOOO....

 

I think Cousins does hold certain draft day value. Frankly, I would take Cousins over all 3 any day of the week. I used to be a 2nd round guy. But , I do recognize its a deep draft and its not likely.

 

I would definitely see a high 3rd in this years draft with 3 wildcard type QBs. I would not settle for anything less than high 3rd and I think given these uncertainties around the QB prospects, there might be some talks.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I mean a 2nd for Kirk would be amazing. Especially if it's an early 2nd. I would then take that and trade back and turn it into a late 2nd and early 3rd if possible ... so you theoretically are picking 34, 56, 66, 77, 102 ... you can get 4 starters and 1 potential starter there plus depth guys in 5th and 6th rounds. Seriously.

 

As RGHunna said ...you could get a Kyle Fuller at 34, Cyrus Kiandjio at 56, Christian Jones at 66, Deone Buchannon at 77 ... then a future OG in Brandon Thomas at 102 ... then DE/OLB with the 5th and 6th for depth. 

Well, as much as most are saying this is one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. I think it's equally the most uncertain QB draft as well. The top 3 prospects can go #1 overall or as late as second round. SOOOOOO....

 

I think Cousins does hold certain draft day value. Frankly, I would take Cousins over all 3 any day of the week. I used to be a 2nd round guy. But , I do recognize its a deep draft and its not likely.

 

I would definitely see a high 3rd in this years draft with 3 wildcard type QBs. I would not settle for anything less than high 3rd and I think given these uncertainties around the QB prospects, there might be some talks.

I would take Houston's 65th to lead off the 3rd with back-to-back picks and I would try and get them to throw in their 4th or 5th as a sweetener. That, of course, is assuming they smartly pass on the QBs and go elsewhere at #1 and the QBs are either gone by 33 or they just don't love the ones remaining.

[Mocountyskins]

I really think Cyrus is going to stop sliding and move back up to a top 40 pick. Sorry I know thats not related to Kirk. I want Cyrus at 34 btw thats who I am pulling for.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I really think Cyrus is going to stop sliding and move back up to a top 40 pick. Sorry I know thats not related to Kirk. I want Cyrus at 34 btw thats who I am pulling for.

Yep, heard his skid had ended and he was rising back up. I would have no issue with the pick at 34 assuming he gets the clearance from the team doc who knows him well. Obv. if we pick him, I trust the doc who makes the call. 

 

... And the more picks the merrier ... because if we have the luxury to do something crazy like really invest in the future, I would love to get Brandon Thomas with 141 if he's still there, which the guys on Sirius seemed to think was the earliest he could go. 

 

Head into 2015 with Trent Williams - Shawn Louvau - ? - Brandon Thomas - Cyrus Kiandjao on the OL

 

Would anyone be opposed to trading Cousins and 66 for 33? The trade value differential would be 420 points, or the equivalent of a mid-2nd. We would pick 33-34 in the 2nd round to lead off which would be amazing. We could have 24 hours to assess the situation (or less, if Houston does the trade after the 1st round when they see what's left at QB but I digress) ... Make it known that Pick 34 is for sale and listen to the calls. If you get an offer you can't refuse, trade back from 34 ... otherwise stand pat and get two 1st round talents.

[Roger.Staubach]

I know that some of you have quoted me as saying that I would trade for KC with a mid 3 or early 4.  And I would.

 

I would also say that I have seen both RG and KC 'warm up' on the field numerous times.  The physical superiority that RG has over KC is astounding.  RG is so much bigger/stronger/faster.  When you see him throw almost any pass, in comparison to KC, it looks effortless.  Does that mean that KC won't be (can't be?) a starting-quality QB in this league?  Heck no!

 

So..when I said I would make the trade, it meant that I would because:

 

a) we need a transitional QB between Romo and 'the future' and KC has the 'potential' to be a QB that could 'win it all' given the right supporting cast.

he would be a 10-year backup QB-slash-few-year-starter until we find the right one for our team.

The smiley face above is, apparently, the letter 'b' followed by the ')' symbol....

[Mr. Sinister]

If anything does happen I expect it to probably happen on draft day at this point

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Version 1. Trade Cousins to Houston for 3rd (65) and future conditional pick (MOST REALISTIC)

34. Darqueze Denard, CB Michigan State

65. Terrance Brooks, FS FSU

66. Marcus Smith, OLB Louisville

102. Marcus Martin, C USC

141. Brent Urban, DE UVA

178. Tahj Boyd, QB Clemson

217. Colt Lyerla, TE Oregon

--- not a huge fan of this one, mainly because I went for Smith at 66 and passed on Fleming, Mewhort for RT assuming that I could get Billy Turner at 102, but he too was gone. Martin would start at Center and kick Lichtensteiger back to OG as insurance to Ribs/Gettis

 

Version 2. Trade Cousins to Minnesota for 40 ... trade back! (PIPE DREAM)

*Trade 34 to San Francisco for 56, 77, 170 (even on trade chart)

 

40. Cyrus Koundjiao, RT Alabama

56. LaMarcus Joyner, FS Florida State

66. Chris Borland, ILB Wisconsin

77. Marcus Smith, OLB Louisville

102. Brandon Thomas, OG Clemson (IR)

141. Antone Exum, CB VT

170. Brent Urban, DE UVA

178. Logan Thomas, QB VT

217. Colt Lyerla, TE Oregon / Tevin Reese, WR Baylor

 

Carry on

[Bonez3]

If anything does happen I expect it to probably happen on draft day at this point

It cant  happen until draft day... The 3 wildcards need to be declared. His value will depend on where these QBs go. Nobody knows, so no movement until the cards are shown

[mistertim]

 

Wasn't there a report that the Skins put it out there that Cousins could be had for a 2nd and nobody bit?

 

What does this matter? This is the same tired argument that some make here that if a team isn't willing to trade for a player he isn't "worth it". That's not remotely even true

 

Also, come on. Are we seriously getting into mental gymnastics where we try to prove that "if x or y happened differently in this game then it would all be different" and cherry picking stats then saying "that's pretty good for anyone outside of <insert elite QB here>". It's ridiculous to do that and you all know it. Were the losses all on Cousins? Of course not. Did he play well overall? Meh, not especially. He didn't look good in spot duty against Denver or KC, had a pretty good game against Atlanta, a mediocre game against Dallas, and a horrible game against the Giants. Who cares how many yards he threw for if he was throwing with 40 and 50 percent completion to go along with plenty of turnovers?

 

Spot duty is exactly that, when the teams down 2 scores and there is less then 5 minutes to play in a game what are you expecting exactly? Judge a QB by his starts and don't put all of the blame on a single player when every single play can determine a game. His start in Atlanta he threw for over 350 passing yards and 3 TD's. What more do you expect out of a guy making his second career NFL start. I think the problem here is your expecting someone to come in and play like Griffin did his first game of his career but that's unreasonable.  

 

Andrew Luck needed almost his entire 16 game rookie season to throw for 3 or more TD's (Happened for him only 1 time in week 13 his 12th career start his rookie year). You can downplay this for Cousins but look at the other players at his position and how they do. Russell Wilson needed 6 starts before he threw for 3 scores and in his first 16 games starting he didn't throw for 300 passing yards. Cousins has done it twice in his first 4 starts. Career starts are not the same at all as spot duty. 

 

The point here is there is a loud voice here that ignores what Cousins was able to do in 4 starts and because he is a Redskin there seems to be too much talk in the negative about him and knowing the track record of the Redskins he likely will go on from here and have a great career. 

 

Yes he threw for 3 TDs and 2 INTs with a pretty good completion percentage. It wasn't dynamite but it was good, which is why I said the same. And I'm sure this will be scoffed at out but do remember that at that point Atlanta openly admitted they were starting a bunch of young guys, especially in their secondary so they could evaluate for next season; they knew their season was lost.

 

So you ignored the other games. Why was his completion percentage so low? He threw more INTs than TDs in the remainder of his games. Sure, the Denver and KC games were spot duty but that doesn't change him playing poorly. I don't think Cousins is a bad QB but I think some people are really over-valuing him or at least what he is worth as far as draft picks. 

 

If he were some random backup QB of another team who in 8 games had a 56 % completion rate with 8 TDs and 10 INTs and the Skins gave up a 2nd rounder to get him would you be as enthusiastic? Honestly?

[theboomking]

Given a choice, I would rather have a lesser backup QB and an extra 3rd round OL to protect RGIII.