ESPN: Kirk Cousins Open to Being Traded

[JamesMadisonSkins]

We literally won't hear anything about this until maybe Thursday after Round 1. I just can't see there being any developments until Round 2 rolls around and teams can re-assess who is there.

 

Another potential barrier to trading Cousins and getting good trade value is the Patriots interest in moving Ryan Mallet, who was drafted in a similar situation as Cousins but as a 3rd rounder. Granted, we haven't seen Mallet on the field like we have Cousins, and Mallet has just one year left on his deal. But nonetheless, it's competition.

[RG3theMVP]

Anyone who thinks we would get more than a 4th or 5th for Kirk is just thinking foolishly.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Anyone who thinks we would get more than a 4th or 5th for Kirk is just thinking foolishly.

Again, not sure why you say this or what your justification is other than just being a jerk. We've stated we won't trade him for less than a 2nd. We've already heard teams are willing to trade a 3rd ... and specific teams at that (Cleveland). 

 

So instead of just posting a jerk comment, maybe do some research.

Back in December, before the 3 games, but regardless ... 

http://profootballzone.com/nfl/report-nfl-general-maangers-believe-redskins-can-get-second-round-pick-kirk-cousins/

 

Redskins want a 2nd:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/19/kirk-cousins-trade-washington-redskins/

 

One GM on a QB-needy team said no more than a 3rd:

http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/could-kirk-cousins-be-the-new-browns-qb-020314

 

- which would indicate we could GET a 3rd from a QB needy team which would presumably be an early 3rd ...

 

So no, "asking for anything more than a 4th or 5th is foolish" is a foolish statement, bro.

[War Paint]

I can see Kirk Cousins being a quality starter if he goes to a stable team and well run franchise.  If he goes to somewhere like Cleveland or Oakland, he'll probably face an uphill battle to become their franchise QB.  In other words, I don't think he can be a savior or that special guy who can change a losing culture.  I do think he can be a quality starter and be like a young Matt Hasselbeck if he goes to a good team.  There are good teams out their who have aging QBs.  He might have to sit a bit longer, but it'll probably be best for him in the long run instead of being thrown into savior mode for Cleveland.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Yes he threw for 3 TDs and 2 INTs with a pretty good completion percentage. It wasn't dynamite but it was good, which is why I said the same. And I'm sure this will be scoffed at out but do remember that at that point Atlanta openly admitted they were starting a bunch of young guys, especially in their secondary so they could evaluate for next season; they knew their season was lost.

 

So you ignored the other games. Why was his completion percentage so low? He threw more INTs than TDs in the remainder of his games. Sure, the Denver and KC games were spot duty but that doesn't change him playing poorly. I don't think Cousins is a bad QB but I think some people are really over-valuing him or at least what he is worth as far as draft picks. 

 

If he were some random backup QB of another team who in 8 games had a 56 % completion rate with 8 TDs and 10 INTs and the Skins gave up a 2nd rounder to get him would you be as enthusiastic? Honestly?

 

I almost do not want to answer your question because this topic inevitably comes back to Griffin and Cousins provides insurance to Griffin. To me a young QB who has not started any games has to be handled properly. In spot duty he did not get the reps required for a start. When given the time and preparation required he has looked good in 3/4 games he's started.

 

In addition when thrown into spot duty it's been done when the games out of reach and already decided. Like last year in the first 8 or so starts Griffin didn't start clicking until the games were out of reach. When the game was out of reach he was able to guide the offense to more scores, defenses were playing softer coverage in the 3rd quarter. With Cousins however when the games were out of reach there wasn't much time left on the game clock so they weren't playing soft, they were playing to end the game. There is a difference in coverage when there is less then 5 minutes on the clock and they can blitz all out and when the game is in the middle of the 3rd quarter. 

 

When a teams down and losing by more then 2 TD's with less then 5 minutes to play it's easy to know what's going to be called, run vs pass. Cousins is not at fault for being put into unwinable situations in my eyes. No QB's do well like this. Bottom line is the team was not expecting to use Cousins and what he was able or not able to do in an under 5 minute drill should not be looked at the same as if he was given a weeks preparation and work to get ready. 

 

As to the second bolded part of this you need to look at starts not spot duty. If you break it down to starts only then it paints a completely different picture as I have been saying. 1 Win, 2 losses by 1 point, and one loss by blowout to end a crappy season. In those four games he led his offense to 24 points or more in 3 of those games. He personally had games of 329 and 381 passing yards (tops for the team) and in those four starts threw for 6 TD's, and 6 INT's. Those turnovers are troublesome but in just 4 starts these numbers are impressive. And if they weren't impressive we wouldn't really be having this conversation. 

 

QB's like Ryan Mallett and Brock Osweiler do not have the resume Cousins does and they aren't backing up a QB with injury questions. Not one of us here thought that Griffin would injure himself in that playoff game and not one of us thinks he could injure himself this year but it's a possibility. Unless blown away by a trade offer I personally do not think that Cousins should be moved this or next year. 

 

I know it's a fun time of year where people speculate on who will be on the draft board when the Redskins pick but moving Cousins is not the way to more picks this team should take. Why not move down in the 2nd round for more picks? If they get no offers, why not the 3rd round for more picks? This team under Shanny was able to move down in the draft and pick up quality players while avoiding some busts (dropping to pick up Kerrigan and not selecting Gabbert), I see no reason why they can't do that this year as well. This is not a situation where trading a valuable asset is the only way to more lottery tickets, they didn't move assets to pick more lottery tickets in the past and I don't think they should start now at the most critical position on the field unless it's for a stupid offer. 

 

Worst case scenario everyone must accept. They trade Cousins in the draft and pick up a pick who busts, then Griffin gets hurt again and next off season we are wondering if the answer is to pick up another QB in round one of the draft because we can't trust Griffin to stay healthy. If Griffin were to suffer another knee injury could you have faith in him? If they still have Cousins next year and this awful situation I don't want to happen were to occur the team will have a chance to see if Cousins is that QB to lead them into the future and he's already on the team. That's worth a lot more then a low round 3rd or later lottery ticket to me

[mistertim]

Ok. So then I'll re-frame the question to suit your standards (even though we wouldn't really do this when evaluating a non-Skins QB). If the Skins traded their 2nd round pick for a QB with a 57% completion rate and 6 TDs with 6 INTs in his starts, would you be happy about it?

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Ok. So then I'll re-frame the question to suit your standards (even though we wouldn't really do this when evaluating a non-Skins QB). If the Skins traded their 2nd round pick for a QB with a 57% completion rate and 6 TDs with 6 INTs in his starts, would you be happy about it?

Man, before Robert got here I remember lots of people wanting to go out and get guys like Matt Flynn and Joe Webb

[TexasSkinsFan]

Ok. So then I'll re-frame the question to suit your standards (even though we wouldn't really do this when evaluating a non-Skins QB). If the Skins traded their 2nd round pick for a QB with a 57% completion rate and 6 TDs with 6 INTs in his starts, would you be happy about it?

 

Sounds like you already have your mind made up about this and that you think you know the future. Or that you see no need for Cousins or his services here and that you insist on marginalizing his ability. I will not be able to convince you of anything as your mind is closed.

 

I will say this...I sure hope that whatever you think is coming to this team is right. I want nothing more then the absolute best for the Redskins. If you let Cousins go and ignore what he was able to do here in 4 starts for a lottery ticket and that's the best way to handle this situation then I hope your right and it works best for this team. I am openly questioning that thought process

 

Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Its the best outlook to me. I don't bury my head in the sand like some do. 

 

But to answer that question if you think that all you look at is stats or pass completion percentage when determining the value of trading for a QB then I bet you would never have traded for hall of famer Brett Favre who in his rookie season went 2 for 4 in his pass attempts with 0 Td's and 2 Int's. His first career pass completion and his second went to the other team. His first pass completion went for a pick 6 as well. He did take another snap that rookie year which went for a 12 yard sack. After that awesome output he was traded for a 1st round pick. Point is there is much more to the eye then just stats 

[TSO]

Ok. So then I'll re-frame the question to suit your standards (even though we wouldn't really do this when evaluating a non-Skins QB). If the Skins traded their 2nd round pick for a QB with a 57% completion rate and 6 TDs with 6 INTs in his starts, would you be happy about it?

 

I don't think any of us would be so narrow-minded as to just look at those stats and make a judgment. I can guarantee there'd be a lot of "the FO sees something in this guy" and plenty discussion of said players stats within context. That's how we roll on ES.    

 

As for Cousins, those stats include a game that was an end to a horrible season; where it was clear that, outside of a few guys on defense, NO ONE wanted to play. Furthermore, it was raining and the receivers were dropping balls like crazy. Oh, and Justin Tuck was owning Chris Chester like he wasn't even there. I don't know how many QBs in the league handle that well or even manage to look decent. Now, Kirk was awful as well that game, so I'm not saying it should be completely overlooked. We can derive that he struggles in bad weather and is not good enough to overcome his entire offense failing him, but that can be said about some of the best QBs in the league.   

 

What bothers me most about the negativity towards Kirk on this board here is that I feel like it's agenda-driven. I could totally be wrong, but I can't help but feel that a lot of it comes from the annoyance generated by a few posters who kept calling for Cousins over Griffin all year last season, or saying that he's a better QB. It's like, looking at Kirk objectively now is somehow perceived as a slight to Griffin. He must be put down at all costs and all that matters is how the season ended as well as the losses. We don't blame a lot of the losses we endured last season on Griffin, but with Kirk the losses are everything. It's as if he was playing on a different team.   

 

Finally, one of my biggest issues with the whole Cousins thing here is how the fact that he played with Garcon, and no one else, gets overlooked. Robert's best games passing last year were when he had Garcon, Reed and Hankerson on the field. Kirk was not afforded that luxury at all, yet Garcon posted two career games out of the three that Cousins started. To assume that Cousins wouldn't have played much better with Reed and Hankerson, who were the only two decent receiving options last season outside of Garcon, is ridiculous and unfair.

 

To me, when all this is taken into account I feel forced to assume that this is agenda-driven more than anything else. I almost feel like I have to qualify my positive assessment of Cousins with an acknowledgment that I believe Robert is a much better QB with tons more talent than Cousins at his disposal, or else fear being labeled. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I'm thinking we get offered a 3rd on draft day and we take it.

[TexasSkinsFan]

I'm thinking we get offered a 3rd on draft day and we take it.

 

They better be right

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

They better be right

Better be right about what?  I think the consensus here is that KC is not a championship caliber QB.  If that's the case, whether Griff gets hurt, flames out, etc., we'll still need a franchise QB   So if we trade to make an effort to fill other needs on the roster, how can that be seen as a "wrong" move?

[Mocountyskins]

Man when Kirk gets traded for a late 3rd half the board will be ecstatic and the other half will be saying to fire burce we shouldve got a 1st

[TexasSkinsFan]

Better be right about what?  I think the consensus here is that KC is not a championship caliber QB.  If that's the case, whether Griff gets hurt, flames out, etc., we'll still need a franchise QB   So if we trade to make an effort to fill other needs on the roster, how can that be seen as a "wrong" move?

 

The consensus here? When does the consensus here get things right all the time? The consensus here thinks Orakpo who was on every one's top 5 available Free Agent this year isn't worth the contract. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but for a franchise that hasn't had a Franchise QB in over a quarter century its foolish to throw a possible one away especially  not knowing they have one right now.

 

Cousins has started 4 games in his career and unless the consensus here thinks they can judge a QB's future by that short of a time frame after seeing what he was able to do in those starts knowing that one more injury to Griffin's knee and his career might be over to me is foolish. And its foolish to give up on a guy because of fear that he walks away and you get nothing who has performed as well as anyone in just 4 starts. 

 

I'm sure the consensus thought last year that Nick Foles was not any good too. Cousins to me is about insurance. If they give up that insurance, they better be right that it's the right thing to do. I wouldn't feel this way if Griffin hadn't had another knee injury. If the worst possibility happens to this team, by giving up Cousins, it could be screwed and you can not do that after the price we paid to get Griffin. I would rather Cousins rot on the bench just in case for the next two years then to prematurely give up on him and ignore the possibilities.

[DMVLeGenD]

Ok. So then I'll re-frame the question to suit your standards (even though we wouldn't really do this when evaluating a non-Skins QB). If the Skins traded their 2nd round pick for a QB with a 57% completion rate and 6 TDs with 6 INTs in his starts, would you be happy about it?

Stats don't tell the whole story. Two of those INTs came against DEN and weren't his fault. On those two picks, Garcon didn't come back to the ball on a comeback route, and Reed dropped a pass that popped into the air.

Of course you could bring up all those dropped picks in the Giants game though...

[pjfootballer]

I know that some of you have quoted me as saying that I would trade for KC with a mid 3 or early 4. And I would.

I would also say that I have seen both RG and KC 'warm up' on the field numerous times. The physical superiority that RG has over KC is astounding. RG is so much bigger/stronger/faster. When you see him throw almost any pass, in comparison to KC, it looks effortless. Does that mean that KC won't be (can't be?) a starting-quality QB in this league? Heck no!

So..when I said I would make the trade, it meant that I would because:

a) we need a transitional QB between Romo and 'the future' and KC has the 'potential' to be a QB that could 'win it all' given the right supporting cast.

he would be a 10-year backup QB-slash-few-year-starter until we find the right one for our team.

The smiley face above is, apparently, the letter 'b' followed by the ')' symbol....

Danny White in between Staubach and Aikman?

[Roger.Staubach]

Danny White = Tony Romo.

 

Stat kings.  When I compare our luck at QB with the rest of the league, I will take it.  White wasn't bad, at all (except I still have memories of him crying while at RFK.  Dang!  Some memories die hard) and Romo is on a 4-win team (if he isn't playing).  A few fans at work have said that it wouldn't be a bad thing if Romo went down, and out, for the season game 1.  Would show the rest of the world his value to the team and would elevate our draft status.

 

Problem with that scenario is that Romo has what?  3 years left in the tank?  And if back issues are creeping up he may already be done.

 

So, Dallas has, effectively, wasted the careers of Ware, Witten, and Romo.  2007 was our year.  One Patrick Crayton quit-job away from advancing...

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I'm sure the consensus thought last year that Nick Foles was not any good too. Cousins to me is about insurance. If they give up that insurance, they better be right that it's the right thing to do. I wouldn't feel this way if Griffin hadn't had another knee injury. If the worst possibility happens to this team, by giving up Cousins, it could be screwed and you can not do that after the price we paid to get Griffin. I would rather Cousins rot on the bench just in case for the next two years then to prematurely give up on him and ignore the possibilities.

You wouldn't trade him.  I would.  Agree to disagree.  

 

You think Kirk is a good insurance policy in case Griff gets hurt.  You think that if we trade Kirk and Griff gets hurt, the team is screwed.  Where we disagree is that I think the team is screwed if Griff gets hurt, whether Kirk is on the team or not.

 

I understand your point, and I like Kirk.  I certainly wouldn't be upset if he was on the team next year, and it certainly doesn't mean I have an agenda against him.  I don't.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Danny White = Tony Romo.

 

Stat kings.  When I compare our luck at QB with the rest of the league, I will take it.  White wasn't bad, at all (except I still have memories of him crying while at RFK.  Dang!  Some memories die hard) and Romo is on a 4-win team (if he isn't playing).  A few fans at work have said that it wouldn't be a bad thing if Romo went down, and out, for the season game 1.  Would show the rest of the world his value to the team and would elevate our draft status.

 

Problem with that scenario is that Romo has what?  3 years left in the tank?  And if back issues are creeping up he may already be done.

 

So, Dallas has, effectively, wasted the careers of Ware, Witten, and Romo.  2007 was our year.  One Patrick Crayton quit-job away from advancing...

 

Not to be too personal with you but I would say that your friends been listening to 105.3 the fan out of Dallas radio. Was listening to that a few weeks back and the guys there were saying how they wished that this exact thing happened as well so the Cowboys could tank next season and they end up drafting Winston. Then someone pointed out that Winston has said that he plans to play all 4 seasons which would have in the draft not next season but the following year. The guys all said well then the Cowboys needed to tank two years in a row. I found this pretty funny. 

 

I said this to my cousin yesterday who is also a Redskins fan when we were talking about surprise teams for '14 and I said and please Redskins nation don't hold it against me, that my surprise teams this year are the Chargers in the AFC and NFC the Cowboys this year. Why? Starting with Romo the thing that most don't understand about Romo is while he has had some embarrassing moments choking he always seems to produce and there is a reason he is always 8-8. One or two bounces and he's a playoff QB. And as you said Father time is catching up with him so urgency is going to be there. Demarco Murray is in a contract season and I like Dunbar and Randle as backups. Miles Austin is finally gone and I think he held back the receiving group as a whole. Terrence Williams looks good and who knows how Escobar is going to do. Dez is Dez and you all have that beast LT when he's healthy. Recipe for surprise. Second place for me is Tampa Bay in the NFC. 

 

Now I hope I am wrong, what self respecting Redskins fan would like to say the Cowboys are going to do well but I think too many people are overlooking the Cowboys and in the NFC East they are the team that most scares me this year. The Eagles are going to have a sophomore slump and the Giants aren't going away from Eli even if he throws 30 INT's this year. The division is going to come down to the Redskins and Cowboys imo or the guys on The Fan are going to be right and it's a tank lol

[TexasSkinsFan]

You wouldn't trade him.  I would.  Agree to disagree.  

 

You think Kirk is a good insurance policy in case Griff gets hurt.  You think that if we trade Kirk and Griff gets hurt, the team is screwed.  Where we disagree is that I think the team is screwed if Griff gets hurt, whether Kirk is on the team or not.

 

I understand your point, and I like Kirk.  I certainly wouldn't be upset if he was on the team next year, and it certainly doesn't mean I have an agenda against him.  I don't.

 

Just for clarification...I would trade Cousins. WWF reference here but I do believe that every man has his price. My price is a 2nd round pick minimum. Minimum being the key word here. And if the team were to trade him for that 2nd round pick then I would if I were in charge figure out the best undrafted QB and sign him the moment the draft ended. Priority number 1.

 

The answer is not Colt McCoy unless the question is which QB would ensure that the team tanks and wont win another game this season? When I hear 3rd round picks, or multiple 3rd round picks I cringe. He is worth more on the bench then a 3rd round pick to me. 

 

I've not ever said that I thought Cousins is the answer. I don't know. I do know that objectionably Cousins has in 4 starts looks like a young QB who if thrust into the starting rotation could produce. I hope that Griffin is the answer. I want Griffin to be the answer. His knees worry me that not having a young grooming QB is not an answer behind him. 

 

I never thought you had an agenda. Any man who remembers Alvin Walton and has stuck with this team as long ago as to remember him has my respect. We have been through some hard times since he was on the team. And I don't mind if we disagree as long as its respectful. You seem like a great guy and have my respect. Disagreements make for good conversation to me

[Roger.Staubach]

 

Now I hope I am wrong, what self respecting Redskins fan would like to say the Cowboys are going to do well but I think too many people are overlooking the Cowboys and in the NFC East they are the team that most scares me this year. The Eagles are going to have a sophomore slump and the Giants aren't going away from Eli even if he throws 30 INT's this year. The division is going to come down to the Redskins and Cowboys imo or the guys on The Fan are going to be right and it's a tank lol

I just can't get past thinking about how atrocious our defense is.  With the talent you've assembled on offense and the way the Eagles looked last year, I expect both teams to average 40pts on us.  We are terrible on Defense.

 

Now, I do think you makes some fine points about our offense.  I really wish we could see what running Murray an average of 20/times a game would produce.  Unfortunately, both Romo and Garrett are completely comfortable checking away from the run more often than not.  While I understand the 'take what the defense gives you' concept, sometimes you just have to exert your will on a team and burn down the clock.

[Mocountyskins]

I just can't get past thinking about how atrocious our defense is.  With the talent you've assembled on offense and the way the Eagles looked last year, I expect both teams to average 40pts on us.  We are terrible on Defense.

 

Now, I do think you makes some fine points about our offense.  I really wish we could see what running Murray an average of 20/times a game would produce.  Unfortunately, both Romo and Garrett are completely comfortable checking away from the run more often than not.  While I understand the 'take what the defense gives you' concept, sometimes you just have to exert your will on a team and burn down the clock.

I know this really is not the place but I think Dez is the 2nd best WR in the league and you have a chance to win any game with him.

 

Back on topic you take a 3rd for KC or a high 4th. The value can only go down from this point on. You won't get a 2nd anymore.

Like I said before teams that win usually don't do it because they have a good back up QB teams that usually need to play their back up QB for a few games usually are teams that miss the playoffs. The goal is to have a back up QB that can play 2 weeks at most. Anything else and your season is going to be over more than likely.

[mistertim]

Stats don't tell the whole story. Two of those INTs came against DEN and weren't his fault. On those two picks, Garcon didn't come back to the ball on a comeback route, and Reed dropped a pass that popped into the air.

Of course you could bring up all those dropped picks in the Giants game though...

And the same excuses should be made for every QB. So lets say we give the excuses a quantifiable number...+7 for other peoples' mistakes or other circumstances. That still means that Cousins is Cousins +7 and Rodgers is Rodgers +7 when you look at their numbers. Numbers don't tell the whole story but they give you a decent idea. The numbers say Cousins wasn't very accurate and was prone to turnovers. Is that really much of an exaggeration from what we saw on the field? Not really, IMO.

[TSO]

And the same excuses should be made for every QB. So lets say we give the excuses a quantifiable number...+7 for other peoples' mistakes or other circumstances. That still means that Cousins is Cousins +7 and Rodgers is Rodgers +7 when you look at their numbers. Numbers don't tell the whole story but they give you a decent idea. The numbers say Cousins wasn't very accurate and was prone to turnovers. Is that really much of an exaggeration from what we saw on the field? Not really, IMO.

I know you're smarter than to assign a fixed number when quantifying something like "other peoples' mistakes or other circumstances", so I'm just going to forget you posted this (not trying to condescend, I really do think you're smarter than that).

[mistertim]

I know you're smarter than to assign a fixed number when quantifying something like "other peoples' mistakes or other circumstances", so I'm just going to forget you posted this (not trying to condescend, I really do think you're smarter than that).

I'm using it as an abstraction of a concept, not an actual defined quantity. The point is that every one of those excuses for poor performance or losses, etc can be said about pretty much any QB. so when you account for that, x QB still has much better numbers than y QB.