ESPN: Kirk Cousins Open to Being Traded

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Birdlives ... again you're just not getting it here. At all. He's worth a 3rd. We could probably get a 3rd. 

[Mocountyskins]

What value does he have exactly as a backup to this team? If Griffin goes down for any extended period of time the season is lost. Optimal situation is Griffin plays well like 2012 for 16 games and Cousins never sees the field. So why not trade him for a 3rd or 4th knowing he is leaving anyways at the end of his contract and get a player that will actually see the field in 2014?

Get out of here with your logic you don't belong on ES!

 

Honestly if Kirk had to play 1 game this season you would get very similar results if you had to play Colt Mccoy for 1 game. Mediocre play give your team a chance to win. I mean When rg3 comes out and you put in any back up the offense changes so much the players have to adjust they just cant play the same way as if rg3 was playing. People really underestimate that factor you can't plug in any QB and just stick the to the game plan. Cousins can't run a rg3 offense he has to run his own.

[DMVLeGenD]

Because I've seen him play, lol.

It's not exactly a consensus opinion you're mentioning.

One or two guys have said they thought maybe we could get a higher pick for him.

I haven't heard this from most sources.

Considering the amount of NFL analysis out there, there's bound to be at least one guy who thinks Cousins is solid.

The important opinion is the NFL FO from some other team.

There's no indication that anyone thinks he's worth surrendering a high pick so far, so that's what I'm going with, along with my own, highly uneducated opinion after seeing him start 4 games and sub in some others.

To me, he looks like a 4th round pick.

Hopefully after another preseason, he lights it up, and we can make someone think he's worthy of sending us a 3rd or 4th next year.

It's not just one or two guys that said they would trade a high pick. I've many analysts including Herm Edwards, Teddy Bruschi, Mark Schlereth (sp?) have said that Cousins is worth a 2nd. Of course the FOs opinions is what matters, but what makes you think we can't get at least a 3rd for him?

[MAATopDogg]

If I’m the FO I stick to my guns and let him go for a 2^nd round and pick nothing less!!! No 3^rd or fourth round picks. That’s what we’re asking and that’s what we have him valued as. Even though Kirk did not have a good season, I saw more positives than negatives when he came in. Also, he hooks up with Kyle in Cleveland which he already has familiarity with Kyle system, has a above average OL, Josh Gordon, and potentially drafting  WR Sam Watkins. If he goes there I predict he’ll have a great season and we’ll wish we gotten a 1st for him. Sorry guys, If our asking price of a 2^nd round pick is not met we keep him on our roster.

[Birdlives]

Birdlives ... again you're just not getting it here. At all. He's worth a 3rd. We could probably get a 3rd. 

 

 

lol, wut? That sounds like an opinion stated as fact. It's your opinion that he's worth a 3rd. In my opinion, the evidence isn't there. He was picked in the 4th round. Roughly 32 teams passed on him 3 times the year he was drafted. He has a QB rating under 70. Where is the evidence he's worth more than what we paid for him?

It's not just one or two guys that said they would trade a high pick. I've many analysts including Herm Edwards, Teddy Bruschi, Mark Schlereth (sp?) have said that Cousins is worth a 2nd. Of course the FOs opinions is what matters, but what makes you think we can't get at least a 3rd for him?

 

 

Okay, and granted, these guys all know more about football than I ever will, but until something happens, I'm going with my opinion. The guy hasn't played above his pay grade as of yet. He's won one game and shown flashes of talent, but he's yet to put together a decent resume. I'm just not seeing where another team is going to send us a high pick for a marginal QB talent. I hope it happens, but I'm not counting on it.

[TexasSkinsFan]

lol, wut? That sounds like an opinion stated as fact. It's your opinion that he's worth a 3rd. In my opinion, the evidence isn't there. He was picked in the 4th round. Roughly 32 teams passed on him 3 times the year he was drafted. He has a QB rating under 70. Where is the evidence he's worth more than what we paid for him?

 

 

Okay, and granted, these guys all know more about football than I ever will, but until something happens, I'm going with my opinion. The guy hasn't played above his pay grade as of yet. He's won one game and shown flashes of talent, but he's yet to put together a decent resume. I'm just not seeing where another team is going to send us a high pick for a marginal QB talent. I hope it happens, but I'm not counting on it.

 

I wanted to stay out of this but this last part I have to speak on.

 

First your entitled to your opinion. Just like I am. And every one is.

 

The fact you don't think he's worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick is fine.

 

However when you say

 

"The guy hasn't played above his pay grade as of yet. He's won one game and shown flashes of talent, but he's yet to put together a decent resume"

 

I need to ask some questions of you to prove this statement is correct.

 

Did you know that Cousins has started a total of 4 games in his professional career? And of those 4 games he managed to win a game on the road and lose two games by a single point? In 1/2 of his starts he's thrown for over 300 passing yards, in one of his starts he managed to get the season high passing yards that year, and he's got a 3 TD passing single game in four starts? In addition in 3/4ths of his career starts the man led his offense to at least 24 points?

 

Now when you consider that these things that some of the all time greats like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and current players like Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, and Ryan Tannehill were not able to do in just there first four starts. In fact those things Cousins has done in 4 starts are amazing. 

 

The question I ultimately have is besides more wins for a guy who only started 4 professional games what exactly is missing on his resume that you want to see to consider it decent?

[Conn]

I'm with you, Birdlives. The one exception being if Kyle loves him and gets him in Cleveland, someone familiar with him is the only person I can see advocating for an overpay. There's already a history and foundation there (who knows if it's good, though). Anyone else...why wouldn't they just spend that 2nd on the QB prospect of their choice, and mold him from his rookie year on, with two extra years on his contract than Kirk?

[Bantu]

Surprising to see this thread getting this much run.

[TexasSkinsFan]

I'm with you, Birdlives. The one exception being if Kyle loves him and gets him in Cleveland, someone familiar with him is the only person I can see advocating for an overpay. There's already a history and foundation there (who knows if it's good, though). Anyone else...why wouldn't they just spend that 2nd on the QB prospect of their choice, and mold him from his rookie year on, with two extra years on his contract than Kirk?

 

If you think your a QB talent evaluator then do yourself a favor and track each of the 4 starts from these rookie QB's you speak of and compare them to what Cousins did. I am willing to bet that when you do, if you do, you are going to be extremely surprised with the results when Cousins is standing above all of them.

 

And if it was just the offense he was running that did this how come Griffin had his first 3 TD passing game at his 10th career start and not before? It's not the offense. If you care to find out if your right about this then when those other QB's don't do what Cousins did in his first four starts you will be man enough to admit it.

[Birdlives]

.....The question I ultimately have is besides more wins for a guy who only started 4 professional games what exactly is missing on his resume that you want to see to consider it decent.....

 

 

Most of those awesome stats have come against awful defenses, in particular Atlanta last year. When up against quality or even reasonable opponents, Kirk has struggled. It's easy to take stuff out of context and point to the awesome, but when you look at it rationally, I don't see what you're seeing. Maybe that can be explained away by a lack of talent in support, but the guy hasn't exactly flashed starter quality talent when up against it. He had three games last year in which to state his case that he was a starting caliber QB and he played well against an awful defense in Atlanta, and put up pedestrian numbers against our division rivals in dallas and NY. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it the same way as the people who think we're going to get a high pick.

[Conn]

If you think your a QB talent evaluator then do yourself a favor and track each of the 4 starts from these rookie QB's you speak of and compare them to what Cousins did. I am willing to bet that when you do, if you do, you are going to be extremely surprised with the results when Cousins is standing above all of them.

And if it was just the offense he was running that did this how come Griffin had his first 3 TD passing game at his 10th career start and not before? It's not the offense. If you care to find out if your right about this then when those other QB's don't do what Cousins did in his first four starts you will be man enough to admit it.

Dude. I know what the stats say. I love stats, they have their place, in context. I've also watched a lot of football, and you can keep throwing the same irrelevant raw stats at me as much as you want, my opinion will not change--Cousins did nothing special, and even looked out of his depth a bit.

He's already spent two years in the league developing habits other coaches might not covet, and that's also two very valuable cheap years of his rookie contract gone. It's my opinion that he's not as desirable as you make him out to be. You need to look beyond the raw stats and maybe re-watch those starts. He was not impressive, I don't care how many yards he put up playing with a bad defense and against bad defenses.

I don't see any reason why anyone other than the Browns wouldn't just take THEIR choice rookie 2nd-3rd round QB prospect and mold him their way, in their system, from day one. I have a hard time believing that Murray couldn't be as effective as Cousins, but younger and with his whole contract ahead of him, and possibly cheaper in draft picks, too. And that's just one guy.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Most of those awesome stats have come against awful defenses, in particular Atlanta last year. When up against quality or even reasonable opponents, Kirk has struggled. It's easy to take stuff out of context and point to the awesome, but when you look at it rationally, I don't see what you're seeing. Maybe that can be explained away by a lack of talent in support, but the guy hasn't exactly flashed starter quality talent when up against it. He had three games last year in which to state his case that he was a starting caliber QB and he played well against an awful defense in Atlanta, and put up pedestrian numbers against our division rivals in dallas and NY. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it the same way as the people who think we're going to get a high pick.

 

Again Cousins has started 4 games. You want to take the spot starts where the game was long over and he came in for mop up duty and played and make them meaningful when they aren't, those you throw out and look at the guy as an NFL starter. I don't get an argument that says otherwise. In addition you can't cherry pick bad to prove a point either.

 

You said that his resume was not decent and clearly it is. His four game starting results are better then the best. You can downplay it but it's true. He didn't cherry pick his opponents he went out when his number was called. He just went out an played. 

 

2013 Season

Griffin and Cousins played a game against the Cowboys awful Defense

 

Griffin - 246 yards, 0 TD's, 1 INT. Team scores 16 points

Cousins in his 3rd career start - 197 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. Team scores 23 points

 

In that game with Cousins starting Garcon had 144 receiving yards. In the game with Griffin starting Garcon had 69 yards receiving

 

Same team, different results. This was the guys 3rd start ever. Seriously don't think I can get why any Redskins fan doesn't see this writing on the wall and still wants to get rid of this player. One more injury to Griffin and this guy could be this teams franchise QB

[Zazzaro703]

Dude. I know what the stats say. I love stats, they have their place, in context. I've also watched a lot of football, and you can keep throwing the same irrelevant raw stats at me as much as you want, my opinion will not change--Cousins did nothing special, and even looked out of his depth a bit.

He's already spent two years in the league developing habits other coaches might not covet, and that's also two very valuable cheap years of his rookie contract gone. It's my opinion that he's not as desirable as you make him out to be. You need to look beyond the raw stats and maybe re-watch those starts. He was not impressive, I don't care how many yards he put up playing with a bad defense and against bad defenses.

I don't see any reason why anyone other than the Browns wouldn't just take THEIR choice rookie 2nd-3rd round QB prospect and mold him their way, in their system, from day one. I have a hard time believing that Murray couldn't be as effective as Cousins, but younger and with his whole contract ahead of him, and possibly cheaper in draft picks, too. And that's just one guy.

Only Stats that matter.... 1 win 3 losses. I know you didn't say it but posting stats from the Dallas game in nonsense. Griffin was obviously at best 70 percent in that game. Cousins has done nothing note worthy. For all the nice throws he had in 2013 he had a turnover or bad pass to match it. He is what he was drafted, a 4th round pick currently.

[Royale]

Only Stats that matter.... 1 win 3 losses.

An absolutely close minded approach to grading players. I sure hope Morocco and crew aren't grading prospects based on your mentality.

[Zazzaro703]

An absolutely close minded approach to grading players. I sure hope Morocco and crew aren't grading prospects based on your mentality.

Uh, i watched the games and Cousins didnt blew the doors off of anything. I just didn't feel like posting stats that didn't matter the last 3 weeks of the year when the season was over. He looked like a 4th round pick. Made some great throws and decisions, made some terrible INTs and decisions. Cousins is average. Period.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Only Stats that matter.... 1 win 3 losses. I know you didn't say it but posting stats from the Dallas game in nonsense. Griffin was obviously at best 70 percent in that game. Cousins has done nothing note worthy. For all the nice throws he had in 2013 he had a turnover or bad pass to match it. He is what he was drafted, a 4th round pick currently.

 

Only stat that matters is 1 win and 3 losses? Your joking right?

An absolutely close minded approach to grading players. I sure hope Morocco and crew aren't grading prospects based on your mentality.

 

There is no way in hell they are. When someone says something that dumb when two of those losses were by a single point I have to think they are actually trolling not being serious but it's worth asking them to be sure

Uh, i watched the games and Cousins didnt blew the doors off of anything. I just didn't feel like posting stats that didn't matter the last 3 weeks of the year when the season was over. He looked like a 4th round pick. Made some great throws and decisions, made some terrible INTs and decisions. Cousins is average. Period.

 

Oh I didn't know you were being serious, honestly thought you were trolling and just being funny. Ok thanks for clearing that up.

 

The resounding similarity here with those of you against Cousins all have the same message....Ignore the black and white and listen to you tell us how your eyes are far superior then facts. Your eyes tell you something, and you believe that 1-3 record is all that matters. Ok got it. Can the rest of us please get back to a serious discussion about Cousins while you haters find something else to do please?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Again, not sure why you say this or what your justification is other than just being a jerk. We've stated we won't trade him for less than a 2nd. We've already heard teams are willing to trade a 3rd ... and specific teams at that (Cleveland). 

 

So instead of just posting a jerk comment, maybe do some research.

Back in December, before the 3 games, but regardless ... 

http://profootballzone.com/nfl/report-nfl-general-maangers-believe-redskins-can-get-second-round-pick-kirk-cousins/

 

Redskins want a 2nd:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/19/kirk-cousins-trade-washington-redskins/

 

One GM on a QB-needy team said no more than a 3rd:

http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/could-kirk-cousins-be-the-new-browns-qb-020314

 

- which would indicate we could GET a 3rd from a QB needy team which would presumably be an early 3rd ...

 

So no, "asking for anything more than a 4th or 5th is foolish" is a foolish statement, bro.

Birdlive ... quoted for emphasis. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm just going off what I've seen from "experts" and GMs to date.

[Conn]

Only stat that matters is 1 win and 3 losses? Your joking right?

There is no way in hell they are. When someone says something that dumb when two of those losses were by a single point I have to think they are actually trolling not being serious but it's worth asking them to be sure

Oh I didn't know you were being serious, honestly thought you were trolling and just being funny. Ok thanks for clearing that up.

The resounding similarity here with those of you against Cousins all have the same message....Ignore the black and white and listen to you tell us how your eyes are far superior then facts. Your eyes tell you something, and you believe that 1-3 record is all that matters. Ok got it. Can the rest of us please get back to a serious discussion about Cousins while you haters find something else to do please?

Don't lump me in with whoever said "only W/L matters". I've made better arguments than that, and you haven't addressed them. And refrain from resorting to the "hater" bull****. The moment you start labeling or demonizing the opposing viewpoint or those who hold it, you've undercut the validity of your own argument.

And please don't call statistics "facts". They are a piece of the puzzle, and need context. Raw stats alone don't constitute anything resembling the "facts" of the situation.

[Skinsfan_13]

Again Cousins has started 4 games. You want to take the spot starts where the game was long over and he came in for mop up duty and played and make them meaningful when they aren't, those you throw out and look at the guy as an NFL starter. I don't get an argument that says otherwise. In addition you can't cherry pick bad to prove a point either.

 

You said that his resume was not decent and clearly it is. His four game starting results are better then the best. You can downplay it but it's true. He didn't cherry pick his opponents he went out when his number was called. He just went out an played. 

 

2013 Season

Griffin and Cousins played a game against the Cowboys awful Defense

 

Griffin - 246 yards, 0 TD's, 1 INT. Team scores 16 points

Cousins in his 3rd career start - 197 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. Team scores 23 points

 

In that game with Cousins starting Garcon had 144 receiving yards. In the game with Griffin starting Garcon had 69 yards receiving

 

Same team, different results. This was the guys 3rd start ever. Seriously don't think I can get why any Redskins fan doesn't see this writing on the wall and still wants to get rid of this player. One more injury to Griffin and this guy could be this teams franchise QB

A very smart post here. The way I see it, Cousins is more valuable to this team next year than the 3rd rounder would be. I would hold on to him one more year. The chances of Griffin playing 16 games is 50/50. Plus with the investments the team has made, they're trying to win next year. The Redskins need a more than capable back and Cousins is that guy.

Uh, i watched the games and Cousins didnt blew the doors off of anything. I just didn't feel like posting stats that didn't matter the last 3 weeks of the year when the season was over. He looked like a 4th round pick. Made some great throws and decisions, made some terrible INTs and decisions. Cousins is average. Period.

I'm just curious, what did you think of his start against Atlanta? Do you think any guy making his 2nd start can just come in and throw for almost 400 yards? Yes he makes some bad decisions but what do you expect out of guy that young? Griffin sure made a lot of bad decision last year too. Didn't he? Are you one of those types that thinks if Griffin goes down the season is over?

[Birdlives]

The resounding similarity here with those of you against Cousins all have the same message....Ignore the black and white and listen to you tell us how your eyes are far superior then facts. Your eyes tell you something, and you believe that 1-3 record is all that matters. Ok got it. Can the rest of us please get back to a serious discussion about Cousins while you haters find something else to do please?

 

lol, you cherry pick the hell out of stats and then hammer others for doing the same.

 

Fine, it's a silly game, but whatever. He had better numbers than Griffin while playing the cowboys? His QB rating that game was 71 and his completion % under 60%.

 

Against the giants he posted a whopping 32 QB rating. So for the one game last year he was great, he had two stinkers.

 

His spot duty against the broncos and chiefs were similarly spectacular, though I don't hold that against him as he didn't likley get reps in practice.

 

The bottom line is the guy has repeatedly said he wants to be a starter and he had an audition of 3 games in which to prove it. He didn;t prove it. He played 3 pathetic defenses last year and didn't make a statement.

 

You can howl to the heavens all you want, but your 2, 300 yard games against awful Atlanta and perennial bottom feeder Cleveland aside, he's not distinguished himself.

Birdlive ... quoted for emphasis. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm just going off what I've seen from "experts" and GMs to date.

 

Sorry, but a highly speculative couple of links on the first two, and the last link states one executive wouldn't give up more than a third.

 

This really means nothing quite frankly, and certainly doesn't set his compensation level at a third round pick.

[mistertim]

 

Did you know that Cousins has started a total of 4 games in his professional career? And of those 4 games he managed to win a game on the road and lose two games by a single point? In 1/2 of his starts he's thrown for over 300 passing yards, in one of his starts he managed to get the season high passing yards that year, and he's got a 3 TD passing single game in four starts? In addition in 3/4ths of his career starts the man led his offense to at least 24 points?

 

Now when you consider that these things that some of the all time greats like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and current players like Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, and Ryan Tannehill were not able to do in just there first four starts. In fact those things Cousins has done in 4 starts are amazing. 

 

The question I ultimately have is besides more wins for a guy who only started 4 professional games what exactly is missing on his resume that you want to see to consider it decent?

 

Cousins numbers in those 4 starts are overall not that good. You seem to take a couple of games where he threw for lots of yards and say that proves he had an amazing first 4 starts. For some perspective. 

 

Cousins first 4 starts:

 

57.95% completion, 6 TD, 6 INT, 75.55 QB Rating, 269 YPG

 

 

RG3 first 4 starts:

 

69.55% completion, 4 TD (assuming we're not going to include the 4 rushing TDs), 1 INT, 104.75 QB Rating, 267.5 YPG

 

 

The only thing Cousins did better with was TDs and (slightly) YPG, but he also made up for it with 5 more INTs in his first 4 games than RG3 did, a mediocre completion percentage, and a mediocre at best QB rating. Stop acting like Cousins lit up the world because he threw for lots of yards in two of his games. Another thing to note is his performances got progressively worse over time, which generally isn't a great sign.

 

I don't have anything against Cousins and I think he has shown a few flashes but he has also shown inaccuracy and poor judgement. When I watched him I didn't see a guy that had "potential franchise QB" written on his back. And I didn't see a guy a team would give up a 2nd round pick for.

[pcbothwel]

Assuming we arent big players in the 2015 FA period, wouldn't Cousins fetch us at least a 5th as a compensatory pick? Possibly even higher if his contract/performance improves before then. So when people say 'lose him for nothing' there not really accurate.

Someone needs to explain to me the major difference between Cousins and Dalton from a skillset POV. Because I would feel very comfortable Kirk running that offense If RGIII cant play a half or even a game or two.

[Conn]

Assuming we arent big players in the 2015 FA period, wouldn't Cousins fetch us at least a 5th as a compensatory pick? Possibly even higher if his contract/performance improves before then. So when people say 'lose him for nothing' there not really accurate.

Someone needs to explain to me the major difference between Cousins and Dalton from a skillset POV. Because I would feel very comfortable Kirk running that offense If RGIII cant play a half or even a game or two.

Why would you ever believe we'll stay out of the FA market? We're not ever going to be the Packers or Ravens in that regard, raking in the compensatory picks.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Cousins numbers in those 4 starts are overall not that good. You seem to take a couple of games where he threw for lots of yards and say that proves he had an amazing first 4 starts. For some perspective. 

 

Cousins first 4 starts:

 

57.95% completion, 6 TD, 6 INT, 75.55 QB Rating, 269 YPG

 

 

RG3 first 4 starts:

 

69.55% completion, 4 TD (assuming we're not going to include the 4 rushing TDs), 1 INT, 104.75 QB Rating, 267.5 YPG

 

 

The only thing Cousins did better with was TDs and (slightly) YPG, but he also made up for it with 4 more INTs in his first 4 games than RG3 did, a mediocre completion percentage, and a mediocre at best QB rating. Stop acting like Cousins lit up the world because he threw for lots of yards in two of his games. Another thing to note is his performances got progressively worse over time, which generally isn't a great sign.

 

I don't have anything against Cousins and I think he has shown a few flashes but he has also shown inaccuracy and poor judgement. When I watched him I didn't see a guy that had "potential franchise QB" written on his back. And I didn't see a guy a team would give up a 2nd round pick for.

 

First the bolded part....not that good. See what separates me from most of you arm chair QB's is this

 

I don't pretend to know if Cousins is good or bad. I've never said he was and I won't. I will push those stats that some of you like birdman call cherry picking stats because after 4 games there is no way in hell in my eyes that any one of us know if he's going to be good, great, average, or bad starting QB in the league. We don't know after 4 starts. If you think you do, you don't. That includes you Conman. You don't know, I don't know. I know you all think you know, you don't.

 

Cousins has done some good and some bad. I agree with that. I'm not saying that he's going to be great. See I didn't think Nick Foles was going to be great after the Redskins stomped him a couple of times last year and then he went and became great. Most of you ragging on Cousins saying he's not worth a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or what ever draft pick don't know if he is or he isn't yet.

 

My point of posting is that while we don't know how good or bad Cousins is going to be that for every bad thing that you can say about Cousins I could come up with something good. Why that's important is not one of us thought that Griffin was going to get injured either. And it could happen again to him. Why with a question mark with Griffin and knowing the numbers Cousins put up would anyone support throwing Cousins away for a 3rd or 4th round pick?

[Conn]

Because we don't all think that how many yards he threw for matters...at all.