BraunMan92 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Prediction: Shanny survives this if we win the next two games. New OC -- Kubiak -- and DC. Shanny actually gets an extension. I throw up in my mouth. Why would Snyder do this to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Prediction: Shanny survives this if we win the next two games. New OC -- Kubiak -- and DC. Shanny actually gets an extension. I throw up in my mouth. Unless all the beat reporters and insiders are very wrong it seems there is no way Shanny is back next year. It's not impossible they are wrong or that something happens to change Dans mind but it seems very very unlikely. I was on the fence about Shanny coming back and even being extended - but the Chiefs game plus the totally dysfunctional goings on since that game have swayed me. It's time Shanny went and we get a real GM and then work from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraunMan92 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Schottenheimer is correct, and he has some credibilty. He had us turning around but was too much of a disciplinarian for players and owner. Players complained to owner and the owner moved on. I believe Snyder has learned form this move of wanting control. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/14/sports/pro-football-redskins-fire-schottenheimer-and-may-hire-spurrier-to-replace-him.html http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/columns/theismann_joe/1311314.html Shannahan gave RG3 a shot to come back likely against his desires or better judgement due to pressure. We watched Rg3 regress all season. Shanny is exactly what we need over the next 4-5 years. A coach that will play the best player, and coach RG3 up vs. allowing him not to improve his fundamentals. If we bring in a coach that coddles RG3, he will make no improvement to his fundametals--which are lacking because he is not a tradiitonal QB. And the entire organization will suffer. RG is still young and often times a much wiser Coach to step in. Rg3 doesn't know it and many of you don't either but Shanny is the best thing for his shot at longevity in the NFL. And I don't want to hear abut how he should have been taken out. RG3 did nto want to, and pulling him now is keeping him healthy and away from forming too many bad habits(Patrick Ramsey being hit over and over ruined him). Kepp Shanny, he inherited horrible personnel issues, and the cap. He deserves more time. I have at times not been a Shanny fan, but looking at the situation of owner, adn ego maniac player with an over involved father---Shanny is the only coach that can hold this together. Not sure he wants too though. You think this a circus now, lets watch player disputes, RG3 passing blame over the next 2 years if Shanny is not here. WE NEED a disciplinarian. One who is fair, tough, and doesn't play favorites. Shanahan's camps are soft compared to Marty's. Need to prepare the players for the rigor of battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why would Snyder do this to us? Money, being terrified of blowing this whole thing up again, and the fact that I don't think anyone has a clue as what's really going on right now. I mean, I keep hearing that Snyder and Shanny get a long a lot better than folks think -- even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Prediction: Shanny survives this if we win the next two games. New OC -- Kubiak -- and DC. Shanny actually gets an extension. I throw up in my mouth. You forgot the part about Griffin moving to Australia. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garcon More Wine Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Prediction: Shanny survives this if we win the next two games. New OC -- Kubiak -- and DC. Shanny actually gets an extension. I throw up in my mouth. jokes on him, no chance in hell we win the next two games. dallas might have a terrible defense, but their offense will shred us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 All this "look what Shanny inherited" stuff is bogus. It's been four ****ing years. There isn't a player here that Mike doesn't want on the roster, period. It doesn't take 5 years to clean up the 2009 roster unless you are really, really bad at your job. Ironic how many people want us to build through the draft but also think the franchise should be turned around in a year. With limited free agency he was required to almost entirely build through the draft. Most draft picks are NOT immediate starters, often taking at least 2 or 3 years to settle in as starters, but somehow Shanahan should have drafted 8 immediate starters the last 2 years. There's a disconnect here; I hope you catch it. Please tell me how you'd turn around Jacksonville or Oakland in a year or two. Note how St Louis and Detroit are STILL rebuilding from having awful rosters 5 years ago. One year turnarounds are a fairytale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 can someone get historic on me: find me a coach in the history of the league that had a 24-40 record (or just 3 bad seasons, 6-10 or worse) over his first four seasons that: A. kept his job B. went on to have success with that team Can we include ones that had to deal with a 36 million dollar cap penalty during that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Right, but Shanny has been here for 4 seasons. Yes, the cap penalty has hurt too, but it didn't have an effect last year. And actually, this team has been healthier than last year's team. I agree, and I'm not arguing that point. And I think that Shanahan is responsible for his record, this year and previously, and probably needs to go. My only point is that in year 1, I don't think that Reid and Shanahan took over anywhere near the same organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Can we include ones that had to deal with a 36 million dollar cap penalty during that time? Should we exclude the ones that didn't spend to the cap every year, but still won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garcon More Wine Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Ironic how many people want us to build through the draft but also think the franchise should be turned around in a year. With limited free agency he was required to almost entirely build through the draft. Most draft picks are NOT immediate starters, often taking at least 2 or 3 years to settle in as starters, but somehow Shanahan should have drafted 8 immediate starters the last 2 years. There's a disconnect here; I hope you catch it. Please tell me how you'd turn around Jacksonville or Oakland in a year or two. Note how St Louis and Detroit are STILL rebuilding from having awful rosters 5 years ago. One year turnarounds are a fairytale. his drafting has not done too well. i want us to build through the draft too but you have to hit on players in later rounds, or retain the players that you do hit on. williams/kerrigan/orakpo/amerson/griffin/morris/reed - these are the guys we build around. but we need more later round hits for depth. i dont think anyone is saying ignore free agency, it has to be a balance. and shanny has had 4 drafts, that is more than enough to assemble a team and coach it up to better than 3-13. if we were 8-8 and looked like a solid "not there yet" team, id be fine. but we are the worst team in the NFC. thats unacceptable. Can we include ones that had to deal with a 36 million dollar cap penalty during that time? the penalty hurt, but it doesnt "3-13 hurt". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Should we exclude the ones that didn't spend to the cap every year, but still won? Oh, you mean the teams who build primarily through the draft and so don't have to deal with overpaying veterans and likely have been building through the draft for the greater part of a decade if not much longer? Let's include them, their situation was exactly like ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Oh, you mean the teams who build primarily through the draft and so don't have to deal with overpaying veterans and likely have been building through the draft for the greater part of a decade if not much longer? Let's include them, their situation was exactly like ours. What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 his drafting has not done too well. i want us to build through the draft too but you have to hit on players in later rounds, or retain the players that you do hit on. williams/kerrigan/orakpo/amerson/griffin/morris/reed - these are the guys we build around. but we need more later round hits for depth. i dont think anyone is saying ignore free agency, it has to be a balance. and shanny has had 4 drafts, that is more than enough to assemble a team and coach it up to better than 3-13. if we were 8-8 and looked like a solid "not there yet" team, id be fine. but we are the worst team in the NFC. thats unacceptable. the penalty hurt, but it doesnt "3-13 hurt". Again, 6 of the 14 picks in the first 4 rounds have experienced a significant injury. That definitely hurts any assessment of his drafting ability when half the picks he's made in the rounds you need to hit on have missed a significant amount of development and time due to injury. Couple that with the inability to bring in free agents like you normally would and that is going to affect a team. As for the cap penalty not "3-13 hurting", when you include a 2nd year QB coming off injury you easily get to 3-13. One or the other a team may have been able to overcome. Not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsdude Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Keep going Laron, you're on a roll. Good stuff. We needed to build almost an entirely new team, primarily through the draft, in four years. We won the division in 2012 and played 2013 with a one-legged quarterback that didn't play very well. Of course unless you consider the division win a fluke as some have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 his drafting has not done too well. i want us to build through the draft too but you have to hit on players in later rounds, or retain the players that you do hit on. williams/kerrigan/orakpo/amerson/griffin/morris/reed - these are the guys we build around. but we need more later round hits for depth. i dont think anyone is saying ignore free agency, it has to be a balance. and shanny has had 4 drafts, that is more than enough to assemble a team and coach it up to better than 3-13. if we were 8-8 and looked like a solid "not there yet" team, id be fine. but we are the worst team in the NFC. thats unacceptable. the penalty hurt, but it doesnt "3-13 hurt". That is lack of perspective on drafting. Compare his draft record to, say, Seattle's, the past 4 years and it's pretty similar. Seattle has landed a lot of great trades and free agents, but purely on drafting our hauls have been similar. Sometimes teams fail miserably for a season. Nobody is calling for Tom Coughlin's head, or really even the Falcon's coach. And I personally think the Kubiak firing was idiotic. They may have struck on Keenum but the kid is just a rookie, and that team is a qb away from deep playoff runs every year. It was kind of like firing Reid last year when he had to rely on rookie Foles. It's a qb driven league, when your qb struggles, you're going to lose a lot of games. RG3 has, undeniably, struggled. If he played as well as he did last year then we probably would be a 7-9, 8-8 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garcon More Wine Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Again, 6 of the 14 picks in the first 4 rounds have experienced a significant injury. That definitely hurts any assessment of his drafting ability when half the picks he's made in the rounds you need to hit on have missed a significant amount of development and time due to injury. Couple that with the inability to bring in free agents like you normally would and that is going to affect a team. As for the cap penalty not "3-13 hurting", when you include a 2nd year QB coming off injury you easily get to 3-13. One or the other a team may have been able to overcome. Not both. good teams dont cry about injuries. they replace them with competent well coached players. and look at the guys we lost to injury, i hope you arent trying to tell me all of these guys would have been guaranteed difference makers: keenan robinson: complete question mark phillip thomas: complete question mark id assume youre putting griffin/jenkins/hank in there too? we know we have a winner in griffin, jenkins was a training camp hero and has done average since. hank was coming on as a 2nd year receiver but hes not a difference maker. using these guys as excuses for going 3-13 is a cop out IMO. the whole thing is a mess, best to just start over with the talent we have and see if a new coach can come in and make something with it. That is lack of perspective on drafting. Compare his draft record to, say, Seattle's, the past 4 years and it's pretty similar. Seattle has landed a lot of great trades and free agents, but purely on drafting our hauls have been similar. Sometimes teams fail miserably for a season. Nobody is calling for Tom Coughlin's head, or really even the Falcon's coach. And I personally think the Kubiak firing was idiotic. They may have struck on Keenum but the kid is just a rookie, and that team is a qb away from deep playoff runs every year. It was kind of like firing Reid last year when he had to rely on rookie Foles. It's a qb driven league, when your qb struggles, you're going to lose a lot of games. RG3 has, undeniably, struggled. If he played as well as he did last year then we probably would be a 7-9, 8-8 team. we'd probably be 6-10/7-9 with griffin having a normal season. this D and ST is historically bad, no QB could overcome that. coughlin has won 2 rings, his leash is long tomlin has won 1 ring, his leash is long smith's season looks like a total fluke, his leash is long kubiak has been there forever and it just never happens, i understood the firing. shanahan has earned literally nothing from his time here. one good season (and lets be honest, 10-6 isnt anything amazing like a 12-4/13-3 season). nothing wrong with starting from scratch with the talent we have and seeing if a new guy can make something happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I actually think that Mike Shanahan is a good head coach BUT I also think he should be fired at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I actually think that Mike Shanahan is a good head coach BUT I also think he should be fired at the end of the season. CRAZY concept huh? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why would Snyder do this to us? Because you failed to lure him away from the Dark Side, Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 good teams dont cry about injuries. they replace them with competent well coached players. and look at the guys we lost to injury, i hope you arent trying to tell me all of these guys would have been guaranteed difference makers: we'd probably be 6-10/7-9 with griffin having a normal season. this D and ST is historically bad, no QB could overcome that. coughlin has won 2 rings, his leash is long tomlin has won 1 ring, his leash is long smith's season looks like a total fluke, his leash is long kubiak has been there forever and it just never happens, i understood the firing. shanahan has earned literally nothing from his time here. one good season (and lets be honest, 10-6 isnt anything amazing like a 12-4/13-3 season). nothing wrong with starting from scratch with the talent we have and seeing if a new guy can make something happen. Good teams also often have 6+ years of good drafting so that depth and talent isn't as big an issue. I agree special teams are incredibly bad, though some of that may be due to the injuries we actually had. I think we lost 6 guys who would have started special teams. Our starters on d and o have been remarkably healthy, but our backups got hurt left and right. Kubiak was dealing with a situation similar to ours when he inherited the Texans. The Texans are undeniably a better team than when he inherited them. He had a qb he desperately needed to replace, but he drafted a stud last year at wr because his receiving options were shady. Now look at them, they get Bridgewater and will be an absolute beast of a team next year (or if they trust Keenum to make the leap, they get Clowney to go with Watt). Kubiak should have been able to reside over them in that. I just hope we can pilfer their fo and coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Should we exclude the ones that didn't spend to the cap every year, but still won? And had a more or less injury free squad all year? Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 good teams dont cry about injuries. they replace them with competent well coached players. and look at the guys we lost to injury, i hope you arent trying to tell me all of these guys would have been guaranteed difference makers: keenan robinson: complete question mark phillip thomas: complete question mark id assume youre putting griffin/jenkins/hank in there too? we know we have a winner in griffin, jenkins was a training camp hero and has done average since. hank was coming on as a 2nd year receiver but hes not a difference maker. using these guys as excuses for going 3-13 is a cop out IMO. the whole thing is a mess, best to just start over with the talent we have and see if a new coach can come in and make something with it. we'd probably be 6-10/7-9 with griffin having a normal season. this D and ST is historically bad, no QB could overcome that. coughlin has won 2 rings, his leash is long tomlin has won 1 ring, his leash is long smith's season looks like a total fluke, his leash is long kubiak has been there forever and it just never happens, i understood the firing. shanahan has earned literally nothing from his time here. one good season (and lets be honest, 10-6 isnt anything amazing like a 12-4/13-3 season). nothing wrong with starting from scratch with the talent we have and seeing if a new guy can make something happen. Good teams do overcome injuries. Like last year when we were one of the hardest hit by injuries teams in the league, under a cap penalty and starting a rookie QB and rookie RB. So maybe 10-6 isn't amazing out of context but in context I'd argue it is. Keenan and Philip complete question marks? Agree, since both have missed practically their entire pro careers due to injury. Of course they are question marks. RG3 had a miraculous comeback from injury but it has obviously affected his play. Jenkins is one year removed from a knee injury, I would say that next year will be a better barometer of what he will become a year removed from the injury and with a full offseason. Hankerson may not ever be a #1, but he's shown development that could have been even further along if he hadn't missed all the time he has. Special teams I agree with. The D is 20th in the league. How is that historically bad? The offenses they have faced are ranked as follows: #1 Den #2 Phi twice #3 Det #4 GB w/ Rodgers #6 SD #7 Chi #13 Min #15 Oak #16 Atl #17 KC #20 Dal That's who the D has faced this year and we are 20th in the league in D. They aren't great, but they are far from historically bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 This had better be a hot looking trolley dolly when I look this up or I'm going to be VERY disappointed in you R-t. Just saying. Hail. Dude, my apologies. These were popular tabloid stories back in the 90s. The Frank Gifford thing was audiotaped only ( she set him up). Dick Morris was Prez Clinton's top political advisor until getting caught with a call girl. When everyone was trashing old man Gif for cheating, Dick Morris stood up for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 And had a more or less injury free squad all year? Hail. QB - RG3 recovering from knee injury, playing but it affected his play RB - Young has been hurt a few games TE - Reed has missed many games due to concussion OL - Trent has been dealing with injury WR - Hankerson out DL - Carriker out all year, Jenkins first year back from knee injury, Bowen banged up LB - Orakpo back from injury, rounding back into form; Kerrigan dealing with injury affecting play; Fletcher dealing with injury and age DB - Philip Thomas out, Crawford out, Meriweather coming back from injury or suspended Obviously not as bad as the injury situation we had last year but to say we have been injury free isn't accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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