Schottenheimer: No NFL coach better than Shanahan

[Wyvern]

Uh, But taking London's word as gospel is a bad deal.

So taking ES uber-critics' interpretations of Fletcher, schottenheimer and others' supportive comments of Shanahan IS a good deal?

[elkabong82]

Can't discount the roster he had been handed.  Belichick had one winning season in 5 years with the Browns.  I think people just don't realize how bad that 2009 roster was.  London said it himself, Danny doesn't have consistency with his head coaches and London believes Shanny is the one who can bring DC back to winning.  If that is the general consensus, and that's a big if, then it's pure mob mentality from the fans to fire him.  I'm totally fine with firing him if the locker room hates him, but I don't think he should be fired just because many fans hate him.  Fans are too fickle to run your football team by their judgment.

 

And I'm really not convinced RG3 is some pawn to get fired.  That's pure conspiracy theorist nonsense.  RG3 has probably taken more big hits than any qb in the nfl this year, and obviously his confidence is wavering on the field.  Do you really want to David Carr him?

 

And I wouldn't be too sure about a massive roster overhaul.  We have plenty of young talent for a core now.  Replace 4 or 5 guys and you could see some big dividends.  Don't need to tear apart half the roster to win with this team.

 

Handed? That was 4 years ago. In the NFL that's enough time to create positive change. Fletcher is on his way out, he's not going to leave by trashing the coach, that's not the kind of person he is and that reflects negatively on him as well. He's about keeping the team together, not dividing it in the last 2 games by trashing the coach.

 

He shouldn;t be fired because many fans don't like him. As I said, his poor record and the politics and leaks are reason enough. No, the RG3 benching stuff is not crazy conspiracy. That info comes from people who time and again have provided inside info and been right. No reason not to keep believing them. 

 

I'm sure about a massive roster overhaul because this team is one of the worst in the NFL and a new head coach will be here next season and will want many new players. But, replacing bad players is only 1 part. A bunch of players will be gone due to age as well, and others because they don't fit the system. 

[KCClybun]

How many victories did playing a sub-par Griffin in 2013 cost this team? (Displace as much as you want, but Griffin was not anywhere near an NFL competitive QB this season -- (reasons for another thread)

How many victories did the very much anticipated departure of Former #1's Rogers and Landry cost this team? How do you replace them after the "RG3" trade eliminated our first round draft picks?

How many losses did the loss of Keenan Robinson ( good pass coverage ILB) cost this team through 3rd down conversions?

How many losses did the absence of decent DBs (through injury) impact the coverage of our special teams; including who was who might run back punts/kickoffs?

Sav Rocca's mid-season decline -- how often did that poor field- Position cost us?

BOTTOM LINE: The team is still going through transition, which was hindered by Mara. This is one reason why I want this team to nail its statement in the Giants' collective team forehead, IN THEIRSTADIUM. I want a big FU Mara! Tattooed into NY fans' psyches, letting them know we know the cheap thing they did, and they are coing to keep paying for Mara unethical behavior.

\

 

Ya know, maybe it's time to stop blaming John Mara and start blaming someone else. It's not like the Giants are lights out this season. Beating them wouldn't mean much; lots of teams have beat them. And it certainly wouldn't prove a point to them.

 

And Sav was having issues last season. Sav's issue is and has been that he can punt it 50 yards, but it's always on a line drive and he's out kicking the coverage. Sav hasnt been the same since he tore his meniscus, and despite having Kai Forbath compete for his job, Mike didn't have Sav compete for him.

 

 

And the departures of Los and Landry? Um, who do you think was in charge of that. Yeah, they were jackasses, but it's not like they left on their own. They both got in the Shanny Doghouse.

 

 

And no one wants to play special teams because no one respects Burns. A player got in a scrap with Burns on the practice field. That's how little they respect Burns. When Niles says "No one wants to play teams", that's what he's talking about. People didn't have a problem playing special teams under Danny Smith. And at any rate, Shanny put capable punt/kick returners like Skye Dawson and Nick Williams on the practice squad, and they waited until the season was loss before they had Santana finally do an okay job of not ****ing up. They made JOSH MORGAN the kick/punt returner before they even thought about Santana. Come on, man.

 

 

All I see is excuses. Every team in the league deals with injuries without having historically bad special teams. Lots of teams have ****ed up cap situations and manage to add talent and win. Punters are a dime a dozen. 

 

Excuses, excuses, excuses, and more excuses.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

As an aside, I gotta love the revisionist history on Schottenheimer.

 

Schottenheimer was and is a good HC. But Dan made the mistake of giving Marty absolute power (sound familiar?), and he ended doing crazy things like releasting Larry Centers and signing guys like Kevin Lockett to huge contracts. He also drafted Rod Gardner and forcefed him the ball. And the players hated him for the most part, especially Darrell Green who he kinda disrespected.

You make some good points, but why throw in fabricated ones? Lockett was signed to a 2-year, $2M contract in 2001. In no way, shape, or form was that a huge contract even in 2001. Other than that, I pretty much agree that Marty should not have gotten full control.

[KCClybun]

KC, I don't know your voice, so to be honest, I have no clue who was saying what.  It was your crews podcast.

 

Point is somebody was leaking that information, and it's all been downhill since then.

 

LOL. Okay, so it's our rinky dinky little podcast that has been the source of all this misery. Right, sir. Clearly the all powerful HTTR24/7 podcast wields SO MUCH POWER that it has shattered the team.

 

 

Because lord knows it's LL, TK and J leaking stuff before game time every Sunday.

[elkabong82]

Right now there are 30 coaches better than Shanahan.

[Laron Burgundy]

Uh, because he's not winning any games, he alienating the guy you spent 3 draft picks to get and he's embarked on a smear campaign to ruin the organization and further ruin Dan's already tarnished reputation, even though he's done everything the guy asked for?

 

 

I think it says a lot that DeAngelo Hall told the media he's not going to talk to them anymore this season. Love him or hate him (and a lot of people on this forum hate him), D-Hall is honest. And while London may talk up the guy, Santana Moss has been pretty vocal about how he feels too, including saying he felt like Kirk was being set-up to fail.

 

 

But taking London's word as gospel is a bad deal. 

 

Why do you think the smear campaign is his?  Does it make him look better as a head coaching candidate to have such an ugly end to a job?  That's just silliness.

 

Hall isn't talking to the media because he's probably like most of the other redskins players: fed up with the media constantly blasting negative press about his team.  He's smart enough to realize anything he says will probably be blown out of proportion.  I also haven't seen Moss's comments on Kirk, but he also blasted RG3 for not taking responsibility, and that was blown out of proportion by the media as well.  Moss himself has said the locker room is not in chaos.

 

I'm not taking London's words as gospel for the whole team, but I really think it's ignorant to ignore what he says and assume the whole locker room is in mutiny.  London was asked if he thought his work was done with the team, he then went on a rant on how he thinks Shanahan is the coach for the job.  That is pure fantasy to assume he's just being a good little soldier.  Now, if the question was directly about Shanny, it would make sense to say some kind words, and even if you strongly disliked him you might say "I think he's a great coach and I'm glad I got to play for him" but you don't go on a tirade on how you think it would be the wrong move for Snyder to fire him and how Snyder's previous coaching moves have hurt the longterm success of the team.

[chipwhich]

LOL. Okay, so it's our rinky dinky little podcast that has been the source of all this misery. Right, sir. Clearly the all powerful HTTR24/7 podcast wields SO MUCH POWER that it has shattered the team.

 

Just saying, it was a leak.  I mean UnWise Mike wasn't leaking that stuff, nor was Sally or Reid.

 

It was the leak to start all leaks

[Wyvern]

Right now there are 30 coaches better than Shanahan.

He's not very like-able, but Shanahan is a quality ' old-school' coach, who has earned his accolades from other league sources.

[elkabong82]

He's not very like-able, but Shanahan is a quality ' old-school' coach, who has earned his accolades from other league sources.

 

So was Homlgren. It didn't work out with the Browns. It hasn't worked out with Shanny here. All the diversionary BS about RG3 and 2 and Snyder doesn't change the fact this sinking ship was designed by Shanahan.

[Laron Burgundy]

Handed? That was 4 years ago. In the NFL that's enough time to create positive change. Fletcher is on his way out, he's not going to leave by trashing the coach, that's not the kind of person he is and that reflects negatively on him as well. He's about keeping the team together, not dividing it in the last 2 games by trashing the coach.

 

He shouldn;t be fired because many fans don't like him. As I said, his poor record and the politics and leaks are reason enough. No, the RG3 benching stuff is not crazy conspiracy. That info comes from people who time and again have provided inside info and been right. No reason not to keep believing them. 

 

I'm sure about a massive roster overhaul because this team is one of the worst in the NFL and a new head coach will be here next season and will want many new players. But, replacing bad players is only 1 part. A bunch of players will be gone due to age as well, and others because they don't fit the system. 

 

Oh, but there is positive change.  Our talent 4 years ago was, perhaps, roughly the same overall, but severely lacking in key positions and it was old.  He basically had to churn water just to keep the roster similar in talent.  The roster he was handed had almost no young talent on it.  Practically nobody you would want starting for you in 4 years.  What we now have is YOUNG talent, and that is a base to build on so that, conceivably, 4 years from now, we're not treading water any more on replacing talent that has gotten too old.

 

Take a look at Detroit, a team that once had a roster similar to ours.  It takes a long time to build a competitive roster in the nfl if you're starting with a complete mess.  Most teams, however, are not complete messes; ours was.  The one year turnaround is a fairytale in that situation.

 

Then there is the cap penalty.  There's no denying that effect.  I know, anti-shannies roll their eyes at it, but let's be honest, 18 mil a year is two elite players.  Do the broncos look as dominant without Welker this year (and he's only statistically their 3rd receiver)?  How about that Detroit offense without Reggie (and, again, he's not even their primary option)?  I could go on, but my main point is the cap penalty hurts, ESPECIALLY when you're in the process of overhauling your roster.  It's silly for people to deny that.

 

Shanny screwed up some early trades for sure.  He's not perfect at all, but I hope you at least realize how our roster is in better shape than 2009 if for no other reason than that the talent is younger.

 

And ok, but if the players believe in him, do you think he should still be fired?

[elkabong82]

Yes, Shanny should still be fired. Again, for the 3rd time, the record is terrible, his staff is terrible and many are inexperienced yes men hired for Kyle, The inflammatory leaks with BS about Rg3 and 2 and Snyder has come from sources known to have Shanny connections and all share the same goal in deflecting blame away from Shanny. 

 

Seriously, before the leaked stuff I said I was still on board with Shanny unless the team finished poorly, and then there is no justification. Well now we've had Shanny classlesly leaking BS to save face by deflecting blame, he benched RG3 as a ploy to get fired, and the team is still awful with Cousins and very likely will finish 3-13. Even with player support, that's not enough to warrant keeping him. Add in all the BS, and it's actually an easy decision. 

[Laron Burgundy]

Yes, Shanny should still be fired. Again, for the 3rd time, the record is terrible, his staff is terrible and many are inexperienced yes men hired for Kyle, The inflammatory leaks with BS about Rg3 and 2 and Snyder has come from sources known to have Shanny connections and all share the same goal in deflecting blame away from Shanny. 

 

Seriously, before the leaked stuff I said I was still on board with Shanny unless the team finished poorly, and then there is no justification. Well now we've had Shanny classlesly leaking BS to save face by deflecting blame, he benched RG3 as a ploy to get fired, and the team is still awful with Cousins and very likely will finish 3-13. Even with player support, that's not enough to warrant keeping him. Add in all the BS, and it's actually an easy decision. 

 

See, but you're not the only one who sees this.  We blame the leaks on Shanny, and say the reason is because he is trying to save face, but there's one huge problem with that logic.  If this is the end, an overly dramatic exit does NOT endear him to new employers.  He is almost guaranteed an interview regardless of how we ended, and in that interview I'm sure he would have given answers if asked why he wasn't successful here.  But these leaks don't help him, they make him appear classless if they were from him, or out of control if from his staff; and if not from one of those sources then where else would they leak from?  It's not a good look when you're applying for a head coaching job.

 

And that is where that whole fantasy unravels.  Let me create an alternate conspiracy theory.  Snyder has one upped us all.  He paid guys to leak these reports to supposed Shanafriends, knowing Shanahan looks poorly regardless of who they believe these leaks came from.  Now he can say Shanny is a huge distraction and needs to be fired, but can seem like a reformed Danny, patiently waiting for the season to end to terminate Shanny a year early so that he can bring in the guy he really covets now; and as added bonus he damages Shanny's reputation.  We all know Danny doesn't handle firing coaches respectfully, and he absolutely despises strong willed coaches who won't let him play with his toys.

 

That's about on par with some of this conspiracy nonsense.

[Mad Mike]

So if he is brought back and we end up with another non-playoff year, then what?

 

When does his rope run out?

 

It's not friggin complicated.

 

He has one year left on his contract and we get 36 MILLION more in cap space to spend next year rather than the insane cap restrictions we have been working under.

 

Then, when he is working on a level playing field with the rest of the league we can see how he does and if it's not good enough, we can simply not re-sign him and the next prospective coach will have the confidence to trust that the owner will give him a fair shot at building a winner.

[MusicCitySkin]

Am I the only one that DOESN'T want Shanahan to get his grubby hands on that cap money this team is going to have? His track record in acquiring free agents for reasonable amounts of money isn't exactly stellar. Hell, the first season of the cap penalty, and he shells out a 5.7 million per year contract for Josh Morgan. Bowen is making 5.5 million a year, Josh Wilson is making 4.5 million a year, and Chester is making 4 million a year. These players have been underwhelming to say the least, and certainly haven't lived up to these contracts that Shanahan approved.

[Cliffmark1]

I'm not sure London said he was enamored with the job shanny did. but that to change the organization we need to ride the storm and prove we can let a coach finish a contract.

[Gigantor]

Why should his staff be held accountable but not Shanahan for picking the wrong people?

 

i agree. Shannahan should be held accountable for drafting RGIII, a one year wonder-brat, who can't read a defense, is not accurate, can't progress through the available receivers to find the open one, holds on to ball too long, etc.

[Laron Burgundy]

So was Homlgren. It didn't work out with the Browns. It hasn't worked out with Shanny here. All the diversionary BS about RG3 and 2 and Snyder doesn't change the fact this sinking ship was designed by Shanahan.

To be fair with holmgren he was just the gm, and that defense is pretty decent and almost all acquired by holmgren and the offense is a qb away from being pretty dang good with mostly holmgren additions. Of course that elusive franchise qb was his Achilles heel.

[PapaLazarou]

The brave hero's fighting against the tide of ignorance and falsehoods!

 

 

You did not heed the poisonous words from the Mouth of Shannahan!

 

 

But now you find yourselves surrounded by those who are afflicted by fear and media perception!

 

 

Fight on brave hero's! Remember that this is a test of your faith in the Redskins that the All-Powerful, Snyder the Foolish, has placed upon you!

[RandyHolt]

"Take out the10-6 fluke of a season". So when we lose it's the coaching staffs fault but when we win it's a fluke? Gotcha. When am I going to stop being suprised by some of the stuff that I read?

 

I think Marty looks like a fool making such a statement.

 

If he moved 3 more future firsts to shore up another position before this season, would you have wanted him crowned king?

 

Mortgaging numerous firsts basically bought him 10-6. If he followed it up with something more than 3-11 perhaps some fans wouldn't label it a fluke.

 

After how he has treated RG3 this season, refusing to beef up the OL, refusing to make Kyle run an offense that suits him best (no, not the triple option), and now the unthinkable, deactivating him, I am surprised his desperation media leaks have actually fooled fans into still supporting him.

 

Try and add to a threads discussion sometime! If you are going to only pick apart posts, why bother?

[Redskins Diehard]

So taking ES uber-critics' interpretations of Fletcher, schottenheimer and others' supportive comments of Shanahan IS a good deal?

funny how that works isn't it. probably one of the more respected men not just on this franchise but in this league cannot be trusted because what he says does not go along with a predrawn conclusion. But the folks that are SURE they are right will not come out and say that London is wrong. Obviously because even they know that will make them appear foolish. So instead it is some b.s about it being his retirement news conference. the same news conference where he did take a position other than "ringing endorsement" of the way the owner has run the franchise.

So why should we ignore what London said? Because he is not as smart as we are and can't figure this out? Because he doesn't has access to the same "sources" that we do? Because his words are tainted by a cowardly or selfish resistance to putting the coach in a bad light?

If there is one "source" we should listen to even if it doesn't ultimately change our mind it is London. Both as a person and with the current status of his career

[skinfan2k]

People thinking it takes 5 years to change a team are fools

[KDawg]

Going back to my earlier point on Shanahan staying... I think a lot of people need to get prepared either way. Seriously. Some people seem dead set on one way or the other. I'd just be ready for anything or some of you may go clinically insane.

[Skinsinparadise]

See, but you're not the only one who sees this.  We blame the leaks on Shanny, and say the reason is because he is trying to save face, but there's one huge problem with that logic.  If this is the end, an overly dramatic exit does NOT endear him to new employers.  

 

One of the likely recipients of these leaks, Mike Jones of the WP explains it well.  He has had 3 doubt digit losing seasons in 4 years here.  That's a disaster.  His best shot at getting the next GM to take him seriously is demonize the kid, RG3, that dude was just unbearable.  I was great but look at all this nonsense that bogged me down, RG3, the owner, etc.  If you need more, Chris Cooley said that he and the other players in the locker room know that Shanny is the main leaker of stories about the team.  Most of the reporters who covered the team when interviewed on the radio, think Shanny is the leaker.  

 

Without a big excuse, Shanny just simply looks like a loser, especially in the context of other head coaches coming in and turnaround franchises much more quickly.  And the rap on Shanny before he took this job is this guy is really a gifted offensive coordinator but is a train wreck with the rest of it, especially in defense.  His performance here has more than backed up that critique it has screamed that point as being true.   

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Almost as long ago as when GHH coached an NFL team.

Seriously? That's your response to a guy that's not even SNIFFED being among the leagues best since his time in Denver 15 years ago and is bang in course to end his tenure here with FORTY loses through 4 years.

SERIOUSLY?

Hail.