Schottenheimer: No NFL coach better than Shanahan

[cphil006]

While he may be a great COACH.... He is not a great GM, which is part of many key roles he has...

[Skinsinparadise]

While he may be a great COACH.... He is not a great GM, which is part of many key roles he has...

 

I'd couch it as offensive coordinator.  Coach means special teams and defense, too -- and saying Shanny is great with that stuff in my opinion is beyond laughable 

[BraunMan92]

This is one line of thinking that's always amused me.  It's kind of funny that some view our name as racist, yet those same people participate in racial stereotyping of Native Americans, like every NA does some type of rain dance, voodoo ritual to curse people they don't like.

 

Its obvious that Suzan Harjo did SOMETHING to us in 1992.

[TimmySmith]

People thinking it takes 5 years to change a team are fools

I'll go one step further. If a QB/Coach combo has not made it to a SB within 3 years, it is unlikely to ever happen.

[Probos]

He's lost 30 games in four seasons, folks.

 

And he's come up with more than 30 excuses for it.

 

Exactly.

 

He was a good coach.  His (and Marty's) time has passed. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

 

 

Take out the 10-6 fluke of a season (Thanks Robert!)

 

I don't really want Shanahan to return, but you can't just cherry pick which parts of the record you accept and don't accept.

 

The team won 7 in a row, he was the HC, and it wasn't all Robert.  

 

They won 1 game where Robert went out late and Cousins came in to close it out, they won a game when a second rookie QB started, and they won several games late where Robert wasn't the same player, and they had to adjust.

 

Minimizing the coaches impact on the 7 game winning streak is just as unfair as not holding them accountable for the losing streak this year.  It's all on their watch.  Give credit and place blame where it is due.

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't really want Shanahan to return, but you can't just cherry pick which parts of the record you accept and don't accept.

 

The team won 7 in a row, he was the HC, and it wasn't all Robert.  

 

They won 1 game where Robert went out late and Cousins came in to close it out, they won a game when a second rookie QB started, and they won several games late where Robert wasn't the same player, and they had to adjust.

 

Minimizing the coaches impact on the 7 game winning streak is just as unfair as not holding them accountable for the losing streak this year.  It's all on their watch.  Give credit and place blame where it is due.

 

IMO, everything counts, and that 7 game steak doesn't bring him up to even close to 500.  I think people would feel differently, if Shanny's worst year wasn't year 4.  I also think some would feel differently if Shanny wasn't the absolutely perfect representation here of what got him fired in Denver and that is, he is an excellent offensive coordinator but poor head coach.   

 

But I agree we should account for his whole record.  1 winning season in the last 7, 1 playoff win in the last 14 years.  Giving the whole picture if anything makes him look worse.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Going back to my earlier point on Shanahan staying... I think a lot of people need to get prepared either way. Seriously. Some people seem dead set on one way or the other. I'd just be ready for anything or some of you may go clinically insane.

 

Good post. Unless you value certain individuals over the Washington Redskins, you might as well keep an open mind. This thing could go in any one of many directions, so I'm going to hope for the best. I have my preferences of what changes I'd like to see but some of preferences have come true in the past and failed miserably. We have no control and we'll be rooting for this team next fall either way.

 

If next year kicks off with the Shanahans, Cousins, and an extra pick for Griffin via trade...it won't be the path I'd have chosen, but they are still my team.

[BraunMan92]

I don't really want Shanahan to return, but you can't just cherry pick which parts of the record you accept and don't accept.

 

The team won 7 in a row, he was the HC, and it wasn't all Robert.  

 

They won 1 game where Robert went out late and Cousins came in to close it out, they won a game when a second rookie QB started, and they won several games late where Robert wasn't the same player, and they had to adjust.

 

Minimizing the coaches impact on the 7 game winning streak is just as unfair as not holding them accountable for the losing streak this year.  It's all on their watch.  Give credit and place blame where it is due.

 

The only impact Shanahan had was in pissing off the team when he quit on them after the Carolina game.

 

Its clear that this type of negative motivation "to prove the old mother****in geezer wrong" is not sustainable.

 

They hated him then, and hate him now.

 

We have been consistently outcoached and gameplanned.  The guy himself admits it.

[RandyHolt]

I wonder if Marty would say the same thing if he had 0 playoff wins in the past 15 years. 

 

Even with 1 win, I question his measuring stick when grading coaches.

 

Marty is just taking shots at Dan and patronizing an old friend. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'd couch it as offensive coordinator.  Coach means special teams and defense, too -- and saying Shanny is great with that stuff in my opinion is beyond laughable 

I agree.  

 

I think too much relationship damage has been done across the board.  But if there was some way to fix that, then there are some options.

 

I think that if Shanny stays, he needs an absolute, clear cut, rock-star DC to come in here.  The one that might be on the market is Rex Ryan.  But if he stays, he needs somebody to run the defense while he runs the offense.  Kindof like Gibbs and Pettibone, all those years ago.  And even Gibbs and Gregg Williams the second time around.  Gibbs knew what his strength was, which was overall team management and offense. And he basically left the defensive guys along.  Shanahan has to have somebody where he trusts them to do that, they've had results, and they can be autonomous.  Rex would fit the bill. not sure who else...

The only impact Shanahan had was in pissing off the team when he quit on them after the Carolina game.

 

Its clear that this type of negative motivation "to prove the old mother****in geezer wrong" is not sustainable.

 

They hated him then, and hate him now.

 

We have been consistently outcoached and gameplanned.  The guy himself admits it.

That's patently false.  No quotes have ever come out to support that. That's just something you're inferring.

 

In fact, the stories that are coming out now, up to and including London Fletcher yesterday, is that the players support Shanahan. 

 

And don't use the argument "That's what they have to say." Because they don't. They could just say nothing at all.  

 

I'm on record saying I think it's time for a change, the record is what it is, and the relationships are broken, and it's probably too hard to fix them.  

 

But, let's at least keep the discussion to some type of factual basis.

[ConcordNCSkinsFan]

I don't really want Shanahan to return, but you can't just cherry pick which parts of the record you accept and don't accept.

 

The team won 7 in a row, he was the HC, and it wasn't all Robert.  

 

They won 1 game where Robert went out late and Cousins came in to close it out, they won a game when a second rookie QB started, and they won several games late where Robert wasn't the same player, and they had to adjust.

 

Minimizing the coaches impact on the 7 game winning streak is just as unfair as not holding them accountable for the losing streak this year.  It's all on their watch.  Give credit and place blame where it is due.

 

 

I can accept that Mike had a big part in the 7 game win streak. I can also accept that Mike had a big part in the 17-38 record outside of that streak.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I wonder if Marty would say the same thing is he had 0 playoff wins in the past 15 years. 

 

Even with 1 win, I question his measuring stick when grading a coaches.

 

Marty is just taking shots at Dan and patronizing an old friend. 

 

You have no proof of what Marty's thinking Randy. Bring me proof or its all nonsense!

 

Damn it man, get with the programme and not just your emotional, unfounded, anti-Shanahan outbursts!

 

Hail. 

[skinsdude]

I can accept that Mike had a big part in the 7 game win streak. I can also accept that Mike had a big part in the 17-38 record outside of that streak.

 

As I interpret it, that's all he's asking anyone to accept. The coaching staff can't be responsible for only the losses, they are responsible for the wins as well.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

As I interpret it, that's all he's asking anyone to accept. The coaching staff can't be responsible for only the losses, they are responsible for the wins as well.

 

Which is all fine and dandy as the 7 game stretch is in the record books and can't be ignored. But it makes a COMPLETE mockery of everything when folk (Not V_o_R here but MANY more) throw up we're 1 year removed from being Division Champions; when that Divisional Championship is the most misleading thing of all on his woeful tenure here in comparison to everything before or after that 7 game run. 

 

Hail. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I can accept that Mike had a big part in the 7 game win streak. I can also accept that Mike had a big part in the 17-38 record outside of that streak.

 

That's all I'm saying.  The post I was responding to just tossed the 7 game winning streak away with a "thank you Robert." 

 

My response was simply that you can't do that.  He's responsible for the entire record. The 3 losing seasons and the 1 division title.  It's all on him.  

[MattFancy]

He's lost 30 games in four seasons, folks.

 

And he's come up with more than 30 excuses for it.

 

Hit the nail on the head. If this was anyone else not named Shanahan, we'd want him fired yesterday. But because he won 2 Super Bowls 15 years ago, we think we should hold onto him. The fact of the matter is, he has not been good here. Look at the Eagles, one of the worst teams last year and now have a chance to win the division. How come these other teams can turn it around with a new coach, but we can't?

 

I also don't agree with the we need to keeo Shanahan for continuity purposes. You don't keep around a guy that has laregly been a failure because it would be bringing back the same coach. Should we have brought back Zorn? Should the Chiefs have broke back Crennel? The guy had 1 crazy 7-game winning streak, otherwise we're probably looking at 4 straight losing seasons. We've finished 6-10, 5-11, 10-6 and currently 3-11. What have you seen from him that screams, bring him back??

 

Sure he inherited a mess, but other coaches have turned teams around quicker. Look at the Chiefs, from the worst record in football last year to tied with the Broncos for the 2nd best record in the league. 49ers were floundering around until Harbaugh took over, they've gone to the NFCCG and Super Bowl in his 1st 2 years.

[skinsdude]

Which is all fine and dandy as the 7 game stretch is in the record books and can't be ignored. But it makes a COMPLETE mockery of everything when folk (Not V_o_R here but MANY more) throw up we're 1 year removed from being Division Champions; when that Divisional Championship is the most misleading thing of all on his woeful tenure here in comparison to everything before or after that 7 game run. 

 

Hail. 

I don't necessarilly disagree with you. The point that has been knocked around for nearly the past 24 hours is that the coaching staff is only resposible for losses, but Robert and others are the only ones responsible for wins. That's incorrect.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Which is all fine and dandy as the 7 game stretch is in the record books and can't be ignored. But it makes a COMPLETE mockery of everything when folk (Not V_o_R here but MANY more) throw up we're 1 year removed from being Division Champions; when that Divisional Championship is the most misleading thing of all on his woeful tenure here in comparison to everything before or after that 7 game run. 

 

Hail. 

I think you just have to look at the whole picture, as you said.

 

Here's a hypothetical for you: Let's say Mike has the balls to pull Robert out of the Seattle game, which he really should have done. Win or lose, who cares.  And Robert is healthy through the off-season, not recovering from an ACL surgery, none of the petty press conferences and relationship stuff comes up in the off-season, and he probably enters this season completely healthy, like he did last season.  And with the benefit of the entire off-season program. With relationships intact.  

 

Do you think the team this year more resembles the team that went 10-6 last year or the one going 3-13 this year?   Because essentially, it's the same group of players and coaches...

 

As I said, I'm on the record that Shanahan needs to go, because the record is what it is (and it stinks), and the relationship between him and Robert seems to be up in smoke.  And while I think any relationship can be salvaged if both sides want to do it, I'm not sure either sides want to do it. And if your star QB isn't going to work with your HC, then somebody's got to go. So, I'm already on board with a change.  

 

But, I also think you have to look at the entire situation: record, situations, relationships, the state of the team before, the cap situation, injuries, culture, everything all together before you make any type of a determination.  

 

Just my 2 cents.  

[Garcon More Wine]

That's right...

 

Smart people should ignore all other factors that contribute to success and failure. They should always lay the blame on the head coach, fire him and hire another. That's worked for us in the past, so it's sure to work for us again.

 

/sarcasm

 

 

all other factors?  like what?

 

did shanahan construct this team?

did he bring in these coordinators?

is he responsible for who plays and who sits?

did he draft all of these players?

did he sign all of them as free agents?

 

what exactly is out of shanahans control that is hindering him?  he runs this show.  period.  and its gotten us to 24-40 with one sweet 7-0 run (which he gets 100% credit for, no arguing that).  but im sorry, 7-0 one season out of 4, and 3 other embarrassingly bad seasons doesnt cut it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Look at the Chiefs, from the worst record in football last year to tied with the Broncos for the 2nd best record in the league. 49ers were floundering around until Harbaugh took over, they've gone to the NFCCG and Super Bowl in his 1st 2 years.

In fairness, the Chiefs had 7 pro-bowlers on that team last year that won 2 games.  Personnel wise, the biggest issue for them was that they had marry poppins playing QB. 

 

Andy Reid is a good coach, he's proven that over a lot of years.  But the big difference between the Chiefs this year and last year is Alex Smith is a solid, dependable, game managing QB.  

 

The examples are everywhere in this league: if you have crummy QB play, your team stinks.  Look at the Giants this year.  If Eli was having one of his better seasons, they'd be in contention. He's not, they stink.  

 

The colts were 10-6 before Peyton's injury, then 2-14, and then 11-5 the year after with Luck.  Coincidence?  I think not. 

 

It's a little bit of everything, but in this league right now, Solid, if not spectacular, QB play gets you 8-10 wins on an average or below average team.  

 

Hell, the Broncos are a 4 win team if Peyton isn't there.  That defense has regressed to the point of being one of the leakiest in the league.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

I agree with Marty. No coach would have been better than this.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I agree with Marty. No coach would have been better than this.

 

I see what you did there. 

 

I like it! Not sure others will mind, 

 

Hail. 

[Burgold]

VOR,

I suspect it slips. No reason to think the D would play any better or the special teams. Even with RGIII in top form I think those two units equal a losing season. Maybe 6-10 v 3-11, but bad nonetheless.

[MattFancy]

In fairness, the Chiefs had 7 pro-bowlers on that team last year that won 2 games.  Personnel wise, the biggest issue for them was that they had marry poppins playing QB. 

 

Andy Reid is a good coach, he's proven that over a lot of years.  But the big difference between the Chiefs this year and last year is Alex Smith is a solid, dependable, game managing QB.  

 

The examples are everywhere in this league: if you have crummy QB play, your team stinks.  Look at the Giants this year.  If Eli was having one of his better seasons, they'd be in contention. He's not, they stink.  

 

The colts were 10-6 before Peyton's injury, then 2-14, and then 11-5 the year after with Luck.  Coincidence?  I think not. 

 

It's a little bit of everything, but in this league right now, Solid, if not spectacular, QB play gets you 8-10 wins on an average or below average team.  

 

Hell, the Broncos are a 4 win team if Peyton isn't there.  That defense has regressed to the point of being one of the leakiest in the league.  

 

True, but how many PBs does this team have? RG3, DHall, Fletcher, Kerrigan, Orakpo, Williams have all been to the PB recently. I think last year we had 5 (RG3, Williams, Fletcher, Kerrigan and Alexander). So it's not like we didn't have talent like the Chiefs had/have.