Dan Snyder The Real Problem: Not RGIII Not Shanahan

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So pray tell SS, what exactly do you believe Snyder has been upto given just last Sunday Shanahan's main media mouthpiece Schefter reiterated again that Shanahan has had FULL autonomy over the whole football side and the contract is that ironclad in that regard Snyder couldn't interfere even if he wanted to?

 

Hail. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Danny is the reason why Shanny's defenses have struggled both here and Denver.  I bet Danny hired Keith Burns and forced him on Shanny.  It's because of Danny that Shanny is clueless with clock management.  

 

And as for the big picture, Danny is the reason why Shanny has had only one winning season in his last 7.  1 playoff win in the last 14 years.   For those citing First Take to back the Danny point, both Bayless and Smith have said this week and last that Shanny needs to go and he isn't a good head coach.   Smith killed Shanny on the show the other day, practically calling Shanny a joke. 

 

But I give Shanny credit for finding new cast of characters and circumstances every year to blame for his teams bad performance.  Shanny has scapegoats for everything -- in Denver it was Jake Plummer, injuries, etc.  Here:  injuries, Danny, McNabb, RG3, RG2, salary cap.   The buck never stops with him, its always someone else or something elses fault.   If Shanny ever went on to our board, this would be his favorite thread -- its up his alley -- "its not my fault" is like a mantra with him.

[Springfield]

So pray tell SS, what exactly do you believe Snyder has been upto given just last Sunday Shanahan's main media mouthpiece Schefter reiterated again that Shanahan has had FULL autonomy over the whole football side and the contract is that ironclad in that regard Snyder couldn't interfere even if he wanted to?

Hail.

Snyder has built the culture of the modern Washington Redskins. I think the culture of the team goes beyond the coach, way beyond. I won't argue that Shanahan shouldn't be fired because I agree that he does. Four seasons later and Shanahan has built a loser.

I fail to see that Snyder is a somehow reformed owner and, until proven wrong, I believe that Snyder will hire another loser to coach this team.

[veteranskinsfan]

Snyder signed Jeff George to 4 years $18 millon contract.  He has consistently made bad decisions which have cumulatively year in and year out weakened this franchise. 

[bedlamVR]

The old stick - Its Snyders fault - erm really again . The ESPN article (has anyone heard of the author)   and Wise both have obvious conclusions or preconcieved ideas they wanted to push and then lump everything thing in together from the past and lead the reader by the hand to join the dots despite the fact there is no actual fingerprints Danny is gonna get blamed .

 

RG3 was Snyders idea - he probably did have a say and was there to meet and greet him...it was a big decision .... and like a lot of owners in the NFL has a good relationship with his star players ( Hell the lauries liked Brian Westbrook so much they paid him twice - one officially and once under the table) - It only undermines the coach if the coach allows it to ... and I really doubt that letting RGIIIs wife use the company car, or allocating a parking space is that much of an issue with the team and lead to 3-11 and a divided locker room ...

 

Then the idea of taking Tanehill at 6 really sounds like smoke to me as Ryan was greener than RG... the thought that any coach would want a guy who had one season of collage experience at QB  over a hiesman winner oozing with talent and charisma who at one point in his final season at Baylor had more TDs than incompletions ...and over draft him as much as taking him 6th overall (Tanehill i am talking about) is a joke - if it had been mentioned last season oh how we would laugh ... but now everything has gone wrong suddenly people want to believe it because it paints everyones favorite whipping boy (snyder) a the bad guy ... The otherone is the idea Shanahan really wanted Cousins and would wait untill late in the 4th round to pick his guy ... is equally laughable .Cousins was simply the highest rated player they had at that draft position and Shanahan knew he had to get his QB this year 2012 or his 5 year plan was busted . 

 

The locker room thing is a huge over blown thing . DHall at the time has said his wife has been in to see him after the game and I know other players have had family down there but that does not sell the idea rgiii is a diva, so lets not mention that right ?

 

All in all all it all points at game playing and blame shifting and the media in DC and at large have never taken to little Danny and have gotten away with printing really slanderous and down right untrue articles and the Redskins fans lap it up .. (Sorry do digress here) but the otherone both wise and the ESPN blogger picked up on was the Dan Snyder sued season ticket holders in the midst of a recession ... right erm hands up anyone here who thinks Dan Snyder with all of his business interests and everything going on is going to spend his time looking into the debt collection aspect of the Redskins ticketing office and saying "ah yes look at that little old lady who has fallen behind on payments - lets sue her Mwahahahahahahaha" all the time twiddling his moustache and pushing his black cape out the way ... really ?

 

This mess is Shanahans mess - it is not unlike the mess he was associated with in his final year with Denver ... and lets not forget he did not leave Denver because he wanted to - a town where he was a legend - a two time winning superbowl coach - their only superbowls they have-  and in the midst of him retooling they kicked him to the curb after he lost the team, so if we are talking form mike is no saint ...

 

The Shanhans had control over everything - the teams they put together were his if these moves had panned Shanhan would be a genius but the best thing about being a coach in the NFL with the redskins is when everything goes to **** you can point upstairs and shrug your shoulders and everyone blames Snyder as an evil tirant ... but it is not Dans doing we have not developed players that the offense is a mish match of different half baked concepts we did nothing to develop sand build on the offense that worked and the defence is worse than that, it is not Dans doing that the coaching staff are friends and family of Mike Shanahan ( well it kind of is but i cannot belive dan is going through shanhans phone contacts saying how about him for QB coach etc ... ) Shanahan vouched for these guys .

 

Dan has done what everyone wanted stepped away and now when the team still sucks - he somehow takes the heat ...

[Bubble Screen]

Bayless blames Dan Snyder for the Shanahan-RGIII debacle.

Both Stephen A and Skip have separate sources saying that Snyder wanted RGIII and pressured Shanahan to make the multi first round pick trade with the Rams. Shanahan wanted Tannehil and Cousins and wanted to not move up.

Starts around 10 minute mark:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10108966

Lmao Who gives a **** what those buffoons think. Easily the two biggest idiots on tv. And no one gives a **** about unnamed sources.

[88Comrade2000]

If Dan and Shanny part ways as expected; there will be no strong GM.   Dan will either make Bruce a real GM or promote someone within the organization.   The next head coach will not be a strong willed type like Shanny, but a weak willed wiesel like Norv Turner.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

Dan has done what everyone wanted stepped away and now when the team still sucks - he somehow takes the heat ...

 

We could win 5 straight SB's and still folk would **** about his past. 

 

Some just can't forgive that first decade. No matter how much good he's now doing since he matured as an owner. 

 

It is what it is, 

 

Hail. 

[chipwhich]

We could win 5 straight SB's and still folk would **** about his past. 

 

Some just can't forgive that first decade. No matter how much good he's now doing since he matured as an owner. 

 

If hiring a coach that has 3 wins in his 4th year is doing good, then I don't want to see what bad is.

 

You aren't "doing good" if you aren't putting a watchable product on the field.

If he is doing good, then he should keep Shanny.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[SicEm10]

I'm at a point where I've come to, according to myself, one reasonable conclusion: let's just wait and see.

Let's just rewind this last month or so and sum up what we find: reports about Shanahan wanting to book it in 2012, Robert not wanting to see his mistakes during film sessions, Robert's family stepping into football matters, Snyder being the same old owner, former coaches siding with Shanahan, Kyle wanting to leave the team, all the way to the point where some are actually believing we have a quarterback controversy.

There are no sources to these accusations other than "sources within the organization" or somebody choosing to be anonymous. 

With that being said, what are you supposed to believe? My take on all of this is, time will tell. Time will reveal who was wrong and who was right when we're either winning or losing next year, or when God forbid we have an even bigger mess than we have at hand now.

Just pop open a beer, watch the game, and drink more if you need to numb it out.

Don't let your holiday season be destroyed by "sources within the organization."

Here's to beating Dallas. Cheers!

 

[Mr_ Skinshead]

We could win 5 straight SB's and still folk would **** about his past. 

 

Some just can't forgive that first decade. No matter how much good he's now doing since he matured as an owner. 

 

It is what it is, 

 

Hail.

The past is now; the Redskins are 3-13. The owner is ultimately responsible and this team is the same train wreck it has been for more than a decade.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

The past is now; the Redskins are 3-13. The owner is ultimately responsible and this team is the same train wreck it has been for more than a decade.

 

If you want to blame him for putting his total (if innocently misguided in hindsight) faith in Shanahan and giving him full control, than that's a fair criticism. 

 

But there's where his involvement in this 'trainwreck' starts and ends. 

 

Hopefully he's now ready to take the final step in his 'rehab' and give that control to a GM. 

 

Hail. 

[grego]

It seems to me that you are very willing to lay any and all blame on Shanahan and absolve Snyder of any wrong doing. I think that kind of viewpoint is naive and too black and white. As we all know, shades of gray tell most stories better.

I just can't see it so cut and dry.

 

 

this is one of the more frustrating arguments i've ever seen on this board. 

 

for the life of me, i dont get why people are blaming snyder for the last 4 years. shanahan picked the players. shanahan picked the coaches- who are all terrible (kyle may be the most competent, shockingly). shanahan coaches this team. 

 

no way in hell was dan doing any of this. this 'dan was a bad owner in the past, so no matter what happens now, its his fault' garbage is nonsense. 

 

fault him for hiring shanny if it makes you feel better, but fault shanny for fielding and coaching a ****ty team. 

[darrelgreenie]

Snyder deserves blame for not hiring and empowering a GM.

Hopefully he has finally learned that lesson.

An NFL team needs a GM period.

And if he had a GM he may have been able to save Mike Shanahan from himself.

A GM might have stepped and told the HC, hey love ya bud but here's the X, Y, Z with Griffin's injury last year.

A GM might have realized that hey we need a KR/PR BEFORE the season starts.

A GM might have said hey Keith Burn go kick rocks.

A GM might have said Haslett what type of defense do YOU want to run and what personnel do you need?

A GM might have said lol we're NOT trading for Jamaal Brown.

A GM might have said were NOT trading for McNabb OR Kyle and McNabb are gonna work this out.

A GM might have said...Mike sit down I just wanted to thank you in person for all that you've done for this franchise. But, I'll take it from here. If you need anything a flight or help packing up just let Nancy at the front desk know.

[Springfield]

this is one of the more frustrating arguments i've ever seen on this board.

for the life of me, i dont get why people are blaming snyder for the last 4 years. shanahan picked the players. shanahan picked the coaches- who are all terrible (kyle may be the most competent, shockingly). shanahan coaches this team.

no way in hell was dan doing any of this. this 'dan was a bad owner in the past, so no matter what happens now, its his fault' garbage is nonsense.

fault him for hiring shanny if it makes you feel better, but fault shanny for fielding and coaching a ****ty team.

I fault Shanny for building a ****ty team. I've never said Shanny is innocent at all. This team has sucked for longer than Shanny has been here for. It's that simple to me.

Also, just like in business, I blame the ownership when business fails. I don't blame the manager because ultimately it's the owner's job to make sure that the business succeeds. Same with politics, the president gets the blame when **** goes to the crapper.

How Snyder is all the sudden Scott free is naive. Wait untill he ****s up this team with the next coach. You'll be blaming the next coach then as well. ****ing insanity.

[chipwhich]

Snyder deserves blame for not hiring and empowering a GM.

Hopefully he has finally learned that lesson.

An NFL team needs a GM period.

And if he had a GM he may have been able to save Mike Shanahan from himself.

A GM might have stepped and told the HC, hey love ya bud but here's the X, Y, Z with Griffin's injury last year.

A GM might have realized that hey we need a KR/PR BEFORE the season starts.

A GM might have said hey Keith Burn go kick rocks.

A GM might have said Haslett what type of defense do YOU want to run and what personnel do you need?

A GM might have said lol we're NOT trading for Jamaal Brown.

A GM might have said were NOT trading for McNabb OR Kyle and McNabb are gonna work this out.

A GM might have said...Mike sit down I just wanted to thank you in person for all that you've done for this franchise. But, I'll take it from here. If you need anything a flight or help packing up just let Nancy at the front desk know.

 

Wow, someone gets it 100%.

[zoony]

Snyder deserves blame for not hiring and empowering a GM.Hopefully he has finally learned that lesson.An NFL team needs a GM period.And if he had a GM he may have been able to save Mike Shanahan from himself.A GM might have stepped and told the HC, hey love ya bud but here's the X, Y, Z with Griffin's injury last year.A GM might have realized that hey we need a KR/PR BEFORE the season starts.A GM might have said hey Keith Burn go kick rocks.A GM might have said Haslett what type of defense do YOU want to run and what personnel do you need?A GM might have said lol we're NOT trading for Jamaal Brown.A GM might have said were NOT trading for McNabb OR Kyle and McNabb are gonna work this out.A GM might have said...Mike sit down I just wanted to thank you in person for all that you've done for this franchise. But, I'll take it from here. If you need anything a flight or help packing up just let Nancy at the front desk know.

That is absurd. Accountability and empowerment built into the structure of an organization? Nonsense

What we need is for Danny to fire Shanny and then jet-set Redskins1 all over the US trying to sell (I.e. pleading) Art Briles or whoever else to come coach here. He can lock them up to a 5 year $40 million deal and give them complete control of the roster. That will be awesome, can't wait.

And In 5 years we can again say that Snyder did everything he could to win and this is all Briles/Shanahan/Zorn/Spurrier/Schottenheimer/Gibbs fault. Snyder wants to win!!!

[chipwhich]

That is absurd. Accountability and empowerment built into the structure of an organization? Nonsense

What we need is for Danny to fire Shanny and then jet-set Redskins1 all over the US trying to sell (I.e. pleading) Art Briles or whoever else to come coach here. He can lock them up to a 5 year $40 million deal and give them complete control of the roster. That will be awesome, can't wait.

And In 5 years we can again say that Snyder did everything he could to win and this is all Briles/Shanahan/Zorn/Spurrier/Schottenheimer/Gibbs fault. Snyder wants to win!!!

 

I love you Zoony. 

[grego]

I fault Shanny for building a ****ty team. I've never said Shanny is innocent at all.

How Snyder is all the sudden Scott free is naive. Wait untill he ****s up this team with the next coach. You'll be blaming the next coach then as well. ****ing insanity.

I agree with the first part.

As for the last part. I'll be blaming the coach if the owner keeps his hands off the team and the coach is terrible. If the owner meddles. I'll blame the owner.

[Bishop Hammer]

I was thinking about posting a new thread, but couldnt tell or remember if this link had been posted and tried to search, but this article is great!

Mike Shanahan's Brilliant Last Act As Redskins Coach; Making Everyone Forget He Sucked. By- KC Clyburn

http://httr24-7.com/blog/mike-shanahans-brilliant-last-act-as-redskins-coach-making-everyone-forget-he-sucked/

Intresting article. I don't know if Snyder is totally innocent but yeah wasn't as bad as the media has painted him in the mess since Shannys come here.

[Skinsinparadise]

That is absurd. Accountability and empowerment built into the structure of an organization? Nonsense

What we need is for Danny to fire Shanny and then jet-set Redskins1 all over the US trying to sell (I.e. pleading) Art Briles or whoever else to come coach here. He can lock them up to a 5 year $40 million deal and give them complete control of the roster. That will be awesome, can't wait.

And In 5 years we can again say that Snyder did everything he could to win and this is all Briles/Shanahan/Zorn/Spurrier/Schottenheimer/Gibbs fault. Snyder wants to win!!!

 

Obviously a hit here on Danny, but I agree with part of this point which is Danny in his over eagerness to get head coaches adopts the wrong model for winning.  It's not the headcoach/GM all in one model that wins.   Where does that work outside of NE?  Joe Gibbs is a good head coach but he is no GM -- heck I recall even during his first tenure how he raved about how looking at film Desmond Howard looked like a "can't miss" prospect after the Skins drafted him.   Marty is a head coach, not a GM.  Shanny was chased out of Denver because of his screws up as GM, not so much coach.

 

Do I think Danny meddled with Shanny and that's why Shanny has such a lousy record, not even a little bit.   I think Shanny is just a mediocre at best head coach and he deserves most of the blame -- not to mention the excuses, lack of accountability, scapegoating and double talk coming from him and his camp.  The same guy who started the season saying "its Superbowl or bust" and this is the deepest roster he's ever had.  Later says,(amidst having one of the healthiest teams in the NFL), that the lack of depth killed the team via the cap penalty.  This is the guy who last year when they went 3-6 said he has a top  5 defense, its just the injuries which has crippled it.  Well, its healthy now, what's his excuse?  But yeah the dude should be running for office -- he's the master of spin.

 

But if people want to blame Danny for hiring a head coach and also giving him GM duties, I'd run with it.   But playing off of the same point, more continuity with Shanny under this same model likely = more failure.   Hire a GM, and have that GM hire the coach.  

[shakinaiken]

I fault Shanny for building a ****ty team. I've never said Shanny is innocent at all. This team has sucked for longer than Shanny has been here for. It's that simple to me.

Also, just like in business, I blame the ownership when business fails. I don't blame the manager because ultimately it's the owner's job to make sure that the business succeeds. Same with politics, the president gets the blame when **** goes to the crapper.

How Snyder is all the sudden Scott free is naive. Wait untill he ****s up this team with the next coach. You'll be blaming the next coach then as well. ****ing insanity.

 

this is a commonly used analogy when people respond to Snyder supporters, but the "I liken it to a business..." analogy fails because sports and business don't always operate in the same vacuum. If you'd like to entertain the notion that the current failings of the Washington Redskins stems from the owner, as the owner of the "business", then you'd have to assess the franchises's performance strictly from a financial/business perspective: and that assessment would deem said franchise as extremely profitable. The Redskins, from a business perspective, had the third highest revenue in the league last year. Snyder, the business owner, has done fairly well. 

 

However, from a "sports" perspective, the team isn't performing very well, and haven't for quite some time (beyond a few anomalous playoff runs). Snyder has not played, coached or has ever been affiliated with professional football beyond his spectator status. He has never drafted players, formulated a gameplan or called plays in any capacity. Instead Snyder has opted to hire others- others who have experience doing such things, and trusts them to succeed. Until Snyder marches down from the owners box, grabs a headset and starts calling games, Snyder- IMO- is not directly responsible for the product on the field. Snyder, in hindsight, made a mistake in hiring Shanny and his collection of ineffectual coaches, but that doesn't reflect any incompetence by him as an owner- how many really fault him for hiring a coach with an impressive pedigree and numerous years of coaching experience? 

 

Posters on this message board have a significant grudge against Snyder, and i understand that, but it would be more effective to simply state you don't like him and be done with it. If the Redskins were failing as franchise from a business perspective, i would adamantly agree with holding the owner accountable- as many have said, the owner is ultimately responsible for the fate of a business. But if the Redskins were failing as a sports team- losing more games than winning- doesn't it make sense to hold the person responsible for whats occurring on the field? The person who chose the players out of school, who choose to sign the players in free agency, who chose the specific coaches to coach said players, and who chooses the particular methods to attack/defend opposing teams each week?

[Springfield]

this is a commonly used analogy when people respond to Snyder supporters, but the "I liken it to a business..." analogy fails because sports and business don't always operate in the same vacuum. If you'd like to entertain the notion that the current failings of the Washington Redskins stems from the owner, as the owner of the "business", then you'd have to assess the franchises's performance strictly from a financial/business perspective: and that assessment would deem said franchise as extremely profitable. The Redskins, from a business perspective, had the third highest revenue in the league last year. Snyder, the business owner, has done fairly well.

However, from a "sports" perspective, the team isn't performing very well, and haven't for quite some time (beyond a few anomalous playoff runs). Snyder has not played, coached or has ever been affiliated with professional football beyond his spectator status. He has never drafted players, formulated a gameplan or called plays in any capacity. Instead Snyder has opted to hire others- others who have experience doing such things, and trusts them to succeed. Until Snyder marches down from the owners box, grabs a headset and starts calling games, Snyder- IMO- is not directly responsible for the product on the field. Snyder, in hindsight, made a mistake in hiring Shanny and his collection of ineffectual coaches, but that doesn't reflect any incompetence by him as an owner- how many really fault him for hiring a coach with an impressive pedigree and numerous years of coaching experience?

Posters on this message board have a significant grudge against Snyder, and i understand that, but it would be more effective to simply state you don't like him and be done with it. If the Redskins were failing as franchise from a business perspective, i would adamantly agree with holding the owner accountable- as many have said, the owner is ultimately responsible for the fate of a business. But if the Redskins were failing as a sports team- losing more games than winning- doesn't it make sense to hold the person responsible for whats occurring on the field? The person who chose the players out of school, who choose to sign the players in free agency, who chose the specific coaches to coach said players, and who chooses the particular methods to attack/defend opposing teams each week?

There is more to running a business than maximizing profit. Snyder has done a admirable job of this because, quite frankly, the fans of his team are willing to buy what he's selling.

There's more to it than maximizing profit though. People are willing to buy what Wal Mart sells because you can buy a wide variety of goods at their establishments for very low prices. Wal Mart has done an admirable job of maximizing their profits. You don't expect top quality customer service from Wal Mart. You don't expect the Redskins to be a well run franchise. Both of these issues start at the top and work their way down.

Snyder doesn't play for the team, he owns it. He doesn't call the plays, he pays the people who do. The current coach has led this team to a terrible season. The problem is that the same thing has been said about 5 coaches before him. I don't think this is any mistake. It's the fact that the working conditions set up by the ownership is not condusive to a successful franchise (on the field). I don't know what working conditions have turned this team into complete mess but it's been like this for well over a decade. It is the culture of this team.

So claim that Snyder has nothing to do with the product on the field. That's fine with me. It probably helps people to be hopeful about the next coach to have this mindset. People want to believe that we somehow get a great coach that will change this team's fortune.

You can hire new managers, sales people, baggers, greeters, stockers... it'll still be Wal Mart.

[chipwhich]

There is more to running a business than maximizing profit. Snyder has done a admirable job of this because, quite frankly, the fans of his team are willing to buy what he's selling.

You can hire new managers, sales people, baggers, greeters, stockers... it'll still be Wal Mart.

 

LOL LOL LOL

 

Really?

 

I mean I will take ownership of a team in DC over opening a retailer because one of the two is a sure thing, and it isn't the retailer.

 

Horrible analogy.

[88Comrade2000]

The good thing, Shanny doesn't seem to have looked onto to anyone yet?   When he's locked onto to someone; Danny doesn't really look at any other options.