Jethrodsp Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Our Redskins sit, for the third year in a row, at 3-6. In the 4th year of Mike Shanahan's tenure, the team is as adrift as it ever has. Cap penalty aside, Shanahan has not had the positive impact on the roster we all hoped he would. The defense is eroding. The relationship between the offensive coordinator and his players seems strained. With Shanahan entering the final year of his contract and the team ready to receive a windfall of cap space, the choice to either extend the head coach or press the reset button has never been more important. First off, I like Mike Shanahan. I think he is a very good NFL coach whose offensive philosophies are still sound. He certainly has a grasp on what it takes to win in the NFL and his resume is deeper than almost anyone currently leading an NFL team. That being said, aside from the quarterback position, it is hard to argue that the team is really any better than it was in 2010. Many of Shanahan's moves (some of which I gave him a pass on previously) have either not panned out or backfired completely; trading for McNabb and Jamaal Brown are the two most glaring examples. I wont go into detail here about the last three drafts, there is an excellent blog post here, except to say that its not stellar. Shanahan has drafted the same number of starters (5) as players who are already out of the league completely. All that being said, the real question here is "do you want Mike Shanahan spending $36 million in cap money this offseason with the current coaching staff?" I say no, I don't think Shanahan has earned an extension and its just not prudent to let him enter the last year of his contract spending that money. As much as it hurts, this is the perfect opportunity for the Redskins to hit the reset button. The team has a young, dynamic franchise quarterback, an abundance of cap space, and a stable, tenured GM in place. The situation is begging for a young, hungry, enterprising coach who has earned a shot as a head coach in the NFL; avoid re-tread NFL head coaches. Im in the tank for David Shaw at Stanford, but there are a number of candidates out there. Its time for a change. If I haven't already ruffled enough feathers in Redskins-land, there is one more significant change I want to advocate. It seems cosmetic at first glance, but I think it can contribute to the team moving forward from the doldrums of the last two decades: Adopt last season's throwback uniforms as a permanent fixture; a new image for a forward-thinking coaching hire. I love the classic uniforms. They are iconic, and bring back so many memories from my youth; I grew up in the 1980s. Before last season, I never thought seriously about the Redskins changing the uniforms, but those throwbacks (with the leather-look helmets) are undoubtedly the most badass uniforms I have ever seen. Part of me feels dirty even suggesting this type of change, but I also think that rebranding the team in this way will create a sense of excitement across players and fans. So there it is. Agree, great. Think Im a fool, great. Want to burn me at the stake, Ill run, but it wont change my mind. Thanks for reading and, as always, Hail to the Redskins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section106 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The throwback idea is a good one. I'd like to see a gold helmet instead of the "leather" one though and we did wear a gold helmet in the early days.As far as a coaching change goes I have no idea. I do know that Haslett needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzfever2010 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 If he gets to come back here next year he should have his GM title stripped. He has completly ****ed up on FA/trades since 2010. If it wasn't for two slightly above average drafts and inheriting some of our strong players from past campagins (London, Cooley, Rogers, Landry, Hall, F.Davis, Orakpo) this would be even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I agree with you on not giving him an offseason to spend that money unless you plan to stick with him long-term. Not only would he spend a ton of money acquiring talent, but he would kind of lock us into schemes (i.e., zone blocking, 3-4) that the next regime would be stuck with, or would take a lot to undo. As for "re-branding", let's end the name debate by changing our team to the "Re-skins". We have no D anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I agree with you on not giving him an offseason to spend that money unless you plan to stick with him long-term. Not only would he spend a ton of money acquiring talent, but he would kind of lock us into schemes (i.e., zone blocking, 3-4) that the next regime would be stuck with, or would take a lot to undo. As for "re-branding", let's end the name debate by changing our team to the "Re-skins". We have no D anyway. A friend [ or so-called ] told me they should change the name to Foreskins, maybe it will remind them they have to play 4 quarters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Eh, those throwbacks last year weren't that great. Still waiting for the feather helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 If he gets to come back here next year he should have his GM title stripped. He has completly ****ed up on FA/trades since 2010. If it wasn't for two slightly above average drafts and inheriting some of our strong players from past campagins (London, Cooley, Rogers, Landry, Hall, F.Davis, Orakpo) this would be even worse. Funny, I feel the exact opposite. I think he has been a fine GM and a poor coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraunMan92 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 So glad this thread isn't about changing the team name as I feared before clicking. I concur with the OP completely...well-written post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethrodsp Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 Funny, I feel the exact opposite. I think he has been a fine GM and a poor coach What makes you feel that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanut0862 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I the cap penality was only 18 million for the last two years so we're only going to get 18 million to spend not 36. As for changing the coaching staff I would be ok either way but getting rid of Hasslett seems the right thing to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 What makes you feel that way? He whiffed on his first two big moves, but since then I really like what he has done. First round picks have all been to pro bowls already and Trent is a bonafide star. Resisted urge to take Ponder, Locker, or Gabbert when we desperately needed a QB and instead traded down for Kerrigan and waited on RG3. Morris is as good as a sixth round pick can get. Helu, Cousins, Crawford, Robinson, Hankerson, Reed, Amerson all look like solid selections based on where they were drafted. No big FA whiffs and a real gem in Garçon. Even a guy like Polumbus (who is a solid player contrary to popular opinion) was a nice find on the trash heap. I like a lot of our individual pieces... We just have a hard time putting them together on Sunday. I would grade Mike as a B+ as a GM this far I would grade him as a C- on staff management I would grade him as a D on in-season roster management I would grade him as a C gameday coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 good post, Kleese. Pretty spot on man, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Let us not forget the ultimate steal of the draft, Jordan Reed. Mike has laid the groundwork with a franchise LT, QB, RB, and TE. I like Pierre and I think he's a beast but the Skins need a true #1 reciever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The last 3 drafts have been fine. Judging them based solely on number of starters as a measure of success is bunk. Teams draft depth and most lower picks on pretty much every team are out of the league as opposed to being starters. 2011: We wisely trade down instead of taking Gabbert, and we take Kerrigan. We also draft Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Gomes, Paul, Royster, Robinson, Brandyn Thompson, Hurt, White, Neild. That's a solid draft. Kerrigan is a good starter, Helu a great back-up RB, Paul great on STs, Robinson good as a depth WR, and Jenkins showed flashes but hasn't bounced back from injury. Hank some like, some don't. Neild is good depth, and fans have wanted Hurt to get a shot. 2012: RG3. Huge. He is a franchise QB and was OROY. That alone makes the draft stellar. We picked LeRibs, Cousins, K. Robinson, Gettis, Alfred Morris, another huge pick, steal of the draft, franchise RB, Tom Compton who is good depth, Crawford who has shown potential at CB and as returner, Bernstine who was injured. This is the very definition of a stellar draft. 2013: Amerson, Jordan Reed, Phillip Thomas is injured, same with Chris Thompson, Brandon Jenkins has shown potential as a pass rusher, just battling injuries, Rambo re-earned his spot and is looking much improved, Jamison is either PS or waived. We got a CB with a lot of potential who will be the #2 guy full time next season, we got a franchise TE who is already one of the best pass catching TEs in the league. The drafts, overall, have been stellar. I think it's dubious 2010 gets left out when we got Trent Williams, a top 5 LT, and also got Riley in that draft. Has Shanahan earned a contract extension? It's still too early in the season to tell. He got the team to a division title last season, and if not for RG3 re-injuring the knee in the playoffs the team had the potential to make a run. That and this team making a run last year at 3-6 as well with many fans also ready to give up and move on then too, show me we need to wait, have some patience for once, and see how things play out the rest of the season before we as a fan base decide whether or not to move on from Shanny. If this team ends strong with a lot of potential to carry over to next season, then I say extend Shanny. If this team falls flat on its face the rest of the way, then don't let him be a lame duck his final year, move on this offseason. But we are still in the hunt in the division, and the offense is getting better and better. Let's see what happens the rest of the season first. Shanny has at least earned that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I agree with the notion that you don't bring Shanny back for his final year unless you're pretty sure you want to extend him. I also think that you don't bring him back unless he agrees to can Haslett. Haslett has had four years to install his system. Even if the cap penalty hurt the team, given that he brought everyone back from last year, that defense should at least be okay. The fact that after four years they are crap is unacceptable. They shouldn't be amongst the worst in the league. Experience with the system and sheer talent should prevent that. And let's be honest, this defense is not a wasteland. It does have players. At worst, it should be slightly below average. Shanny needs to bite the bullet and admit his error here. Haslett's to blame. In fact, I'm not sure if there's anyone unit on the defense that has really excelled. So, it could be scheme, plus inability to teach. For that reason, I go with the ultimatum and in fact, am leaning towards not retaining Shanahan altogether, because there still has been a failure overall to get players to improve to the degree they should from year to year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenDavis Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The last 3 drafts have been fine. Judging them based solely on number of starters as a measure of success is bunk. Teams draft depth and most lower picks on pretty much every team are out of the league as opposed to being starters. 2011: We wisely trade down instead of taking Gabbert, and we take Kerrigan. We also draft Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Gomes, Paul, Royster, Robinson, Brandyn Thompson, Hurt, White, Neild. That's a solid draft. Kerrigan is a good starter, Helu a great back-up RB, Paul great on STs, Robinson good as a depth WR, and Jenkins showed flashes but hasn't bounced back from injury. Hank some like, some don't. Neild is good depth, and fans have wanted Hurt to get a shot. 2012: RG3. Huge. He is a franchise QB and was OROY. That alone makes the draft stellar. We picked LeRibs, Cousins, K. Robinson, Gettis, Alfred Morris, another huge pick, steal of the draft, franchise RB, Tom Compton who is good depth, Crawford who has shown potential at CB and as returner, Bernstine who was injured. This is the very definition of a stellar draft. 2013: Amerson, Jordan Reed, Phillip Thomas is injured, same with Chris Thompson, Brandon Jenkins has shown potential as a pass rusher, just battling injuries, Rambo re-earned his spot and is looking much improved, Jamison is either PS or waived. We got a CB with a lot of potential who will be the #2 guy full time next season, we got a franchise TE who is already one of the best pass catching TEs in the league. The drafts, overall, have been stellar. I think it's dubious 2010 gets left out when we got Trent Williams, a top 5 LT, and also got Riley in that draft. Has Shanahan earned a contract extension? It's still too early in the season to tell. He got the team to a division title last season, and if not for RG3 re-injuring the knee in the playoffs the team had the potential to make a run. That and this team making a run last year at 3-6 as well with many fans also ready to give up and move on then too, show me we need to wait, have some patience for once, and see how things play out the rest of the season before we as a fan base decide whether or not to move on from Shanny. If this team ends strong with a lot of potential to carry over to next season, then I say extend Shanny. If this team falls flat on its face the rest of the way, then don't let him be a lame duck his final year, move on this offseason. But we are still in the hunt in the division, and the offense is getting better and better. Let's see what happens the rest of the season first. Shanny has at least earned that. I don't care how much talent he has brought in here. For me that's not in consideration as to keeping him or firing him. It's the way we lose games. The way the players are coached. The lack of in game adjustments. Yes we need to wait for the rest of the season to play out to make a final decision. But I agree, if the rest of the season is anything like the first 9 games then getting rid of Shanny is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 If we show improvement over the rest of the season, as we have been over the course of the season, then I think you give Shanny year 5 to get it right. I remember when Shanny was hired and we all believed we should be patient as it was a five year plan. I remember feeling like we were on the brink of contending this past offseason. A bad start to year 4 and people are pushing each other out of the way to get off the bandwagon first. Fans have short memories and zero patience. I can only hope Snyder has learned you cannot run a team by listening to the fans. Oh, and I do like the throwbacks, but I like the gold pants more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I have not fully digested this so i will likely give more complete thoughts later, but I do like the throwbacks, and I also liked them with this year's helmet,, the one with no stripes. I really liked that look. I'm just glad to have clicked and read something relatively well thought out instead of some yakking to do with the name. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emor09 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 If he gets to come back here next year he should have his GM title stripped. He has completly ****ed up on FA/trades since 2010. If it wasn't for two slightly above average drafts and inheriting some of our strong players from past campagins (London, Cooley, Rogers, Landry, Hall, F.Davis, Orakpo) this would be even worse. And if he didn't inherit Hall and Haynesworth's awful contracts, we wouldn't have had a penatly for the last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I don't care how much talent he has brought in here. For me that's not in consideration as to keeping him or firing him. It's the way we lose games. The way the players are coached. The lack of in game adjustments. Yes we need to wait for the rest of the season to play out to make a final decision. But I agree, if the rest of the season is anything like the first 9 games then getting rid of Shanny is a no brainer. Talent acquisition definitely has to be considered in the decision to keep or fire a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJD2 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Topic title is a bit misleading as the OP really isn't so much about rebranding the team. How many more topics about firing Shanahan and uniform changes can we get ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I the cap penality was only 18 million for the last two years so we're only going to get 18 million to spend not 36. As for changing the coaching staff I would be ok either way but getting rid of Hasslett seems the right thing to do You are right that it was only $18M/yr.. However, the team overall based on expiring contracts and some other restructuring the Skins have about $36M in cap space available for this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 All that being said, the real question here is "do you want Mike Shanahan spending $36 million in cap money this offseason with the current coaching staff?" I say no, I don't think Shanahan has earned an extension and its just not prudent to let him enter the last year of his contract spending that money. Adopt last season's throwback uniforms as a permanent fixture; a new image for a forward-thinking coaching hire. I love the classic uniforms. I don't mind either way if we keep him for his fifth year, or let him go. I think the first 2 years were more of a hold as we waited for our franchise QB. Because of that I wouldn't mind him staying to run out his contract, but I DO mind if it's still with Hass. Get a better DC and who knows what MIGHT happen. I still like his picks with AM and JR. I don't like the russet potato helmet. Maybe redskin potato w/logos... no stripes and sour cream. I DO like the jerseys, but neh to the pants. We're not BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenB Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Oh, and I do like the throwbacks, but I like the gold pants more. My thoughts exactly. I like the gold pants more than any throwback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martytheman Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Don't want to respond to the whole op, but I will voice my opinion on one thing: drafting of players. I think Shanny's drafts have been borderline brilliant. Him working with Bruce to trade up/down to get more picks was some good maneuvering, and he's hit on alot of players and has some decent 2nd tier guys, with very few wtf busts. TW, Kerrigan, RG3, Morris, Reed, Hank, Helu, Royster, Neild, Hurt, Cousins, Crawford, Riley (alot of boneheaded penalties on that guy) All those guys have had a hand in winning games by stepping up and making critical plays. Then you got guys like Robinson Thomas, Bernstein, Minnifield, who have shown potential, but are hurt. The jury is still out on Lerib and JJ, but it's not looking good for those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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