mistertim Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Their hatred for Trump is dwarfed by their hatred of Hillary Her disapproval ratings aren't very good, but his are higher, MUCH higher in some demographics. I can see plenty of independents holding their noses and voting for Hillary instead of a lunatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I know quite a few people that have said something along the lines of: I don't ever vote, but I'll definitely go vote against Trump if he's the candidate. No way in hell am I letting him be president. But I always think - yeah, sure, the person that's never bothered to vote before is going to actually get off their ass and go vote now. I'll believe it when I see it. People who find reasons to not vote are going to continue to find reasons to not vote. At the end of the day it requires you to actually make the time to go do it. You don't develop a history of not voting for no reason. It's because you don't value it. It's reasonable to be skeptical, but I know more than a few folks in 2008 who voted for Obama because they wanted to ensure that Palin wasn't in the White House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Her disapproval ratings aren't very good, but his are higher, MUCH higher in some demographics. I can see plenty of independents holding their noses and voting for Hillary instead of a lunatic. Just to add: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-really-unpopular-with-general-election-voters/ She has a lot of negatives, but hers are at least off set by his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Shifting goal posts? So you don't think they broke their end of the deal at all before Bush did? I know the rules are kinda lax in this thread but please edit out that HUGE block of text you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Starting with the baseline of 2008 election. Will Hillary do better or worse than Obama? Will Trump do better or worse than McCain? If the answer is yes to both, the REAL question will be what the spreads will be between the two. Hillary has yet to face an opponent attacking her. But she's also been attacked for so long, it might not make a dent later. Trump cant get any lower than he is right now can he? By which I mean, at least SOME of the Cruz/Rubio voters will support him. My guess. In the end we have a race that's 48-46 in the end nationally with all eyes on Ohio or Florida on election night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I'm really just looking forward to the Clinton Trump debate. I could honestly see that going either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I'm really just looking forward to the Clinton Trump debate. I could honestly see that going either way. I have a feeling Hillary will be far better at handling him than Rubio, Cruz, or Jeb. She's been doing this a long time and is pretty damn good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I have a feeling Hillary will be far better at handling him than Rubio, Cruz, or Jeb. She's been doing this a long time and is pretty damn good at it. I think you're underestimating the amount of dumb that Trump might throw at her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I think you're underestimating the amount of dumb that Trump might throw at her. And I think he can beat her up badly on Wall Street. He can say something like "I know people in the room when you spoke at Goldman Sachs. And you told them a different story than the one youre trying to sell the voters". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Starting with the baseline of 2008 election. Will Hillary do better or worse than Obama? Will Trump do better or worse than McCain? If the answer is yes to both, the REAL question will be what the spreads will be between the two. Hillary has yet to face an opponent attacking her. But she's also been attacked for so long, it might not make a dent later. Trump cant get any lower than he is right now can he? By which I mean, at least SOME of the Cruz/Rubio voters will support him. My guess. In the end we have a race that's 48-46 in the end nationally with all eyes on Ohio or Florida on election night. What do you mean by lower? Can he hurt himself among the conservative base? Yes. His biggest issue is going to be health care. He's said he's going to have universal care. He's also said he's going to leave the private insurance industry in tact (he didn't say it like that, but that was the gist of the back and for with Rubio last debate). The question that's going to be put him, especially in a general against a democrat is how do you achieve universal care with private insurance. How do you make young healthy people buy insurance? The ACA's solution is the tax. I don't think he can lose Rubio/Trump voters on general attitude/beliefs, but he can on real issues. He can't support a health care tax without some of the Obamacare venom coming back at him. But he can't support Universal Care without one. He's got to pick. Universal care or the conservative base. His other big issue is going to be they buying of politicians actually. Does he have a solution to that other than have a very rich person run for President every election? There are myriad of issue there where he could lose the conservative base. Hillary has said she's for over turning Citizen United, which won't fix the problem, but would probably help some. Is he? What's his solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 So how are all of the independents and moderate Republicans who disapprove of him currently going to be suddenly swayed to his side once it hits the general election? There would have to be a mass turnover of people who currently dislike him. How is he going to accomplish that? He's been running on the same "platform" since he entered the race and they still don't like him. You seem to be giving him some sort of magical powers. (1) Trumps doesn't have a higher disapproval rating than Hillary. (2) Trying to suggest Trump is a racist or whatever other personal charge you want to make against him is a recipe to loose the general. You want to beat trump.. Propose better ideas. (3) All this garbage about trump being an non-viable candidate is just sour grapes for the Democrats not being able to overcome their own disfunction and potentially nominating a candidate who has no ideas to base her campaign on. (4) Such a campaign of "no you can't" barely is working in the primaries where Hillary controls the party, the debates, and originally at least had a huge money advantage. It won't work in the general where hillary will have none of those things. (5) I also think rank and file Hillary supporters who allow this contest come down to personal attacks are underestimating Trump who's shown himself to be a pretty able politician. Be it against week opposition. But Hillary hasn't even shown that level of political competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 What do you mean by lower? Can he hurt himself among the conservative base? Yes. His biggest issue is going to be health care. He's said he's going to have universal care. He's also said he's going to leave the private insurance industry in tact (he didn't say it like that, but that was the gist of the back and for with Rubio last debate). The question that's going to be put him, especially in a general against a democrat is how do you achieve universal care with private insurance. How do you make young healthy people buy insurance? The ACA's solution is the tax. I don't think he can lose Rubio/Trump voters on general attitude/beliefs, but he can on real issues. He can't support a health care tax without some of the Obamacare venom coming back at him. But he can't support Universal Care without one. He's got to pick. Universal care or the conservative base. His other big issue is going to be they buying of politicians actually. Does he have a solution to that other than have a very rich person run for President every election? There are myriad of issue there where he could lose the conservative base. Hillary has said she's for over turning Citizen United, which won't fix the problem, but would probably help some. Is he? What's his solution? I don't think he has one. I think he's going to run on "Im not her!". And that's going to be enough for the Conservative base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Hey, Trump winning might cause both parties to seriously reorganize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Her disapproval ratings aren't very good, but his are higher, MUCH higher in some demographics. I can see plenty of independents holding their noses and voting for Hillary instead of a lunatic. They really aren't.. Even democrats hate Hillary more than they hate Trump. Even Rubio, Cruz and Carson supporters hate Hillary more than they hate Trump... Even Bernie Supporters distrust Hillary more than they distrust Trump. This entire personal attack on Trump is geared to shore up Hillary's base and it's lame. Hillary has to present her own ideas and win favor with the electorate that way. She can't just engineer a victory even over trump by discrediting him. Not in the General. What is her vision? What does she want to do in a hillary Presidency? What's her solution for Russia, the immigration crisis, or China? What does Hillary think about a 50 billion dollar trade imbalance with Mexico and 500 billion trade imbalance against China? What does Hillary think about the US having 2x-6x the prescription drug costs of any other country in the world? What does Hillary think about American's still paying nearly twice as much for healthcare? What's Hillary's going to do to stimulate good paying jobs. She should have answered these questions a long time ago! Trump has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 And I think he can beat her up badly on Wall Street. He can say something like "I know people in the room when you spoke at Goldman Sachs. And you told them a different story than the one youre trying to sell the voters". And she can say I know people in the room when you spoke to the NYT and you told them something different about immigration and abortion than you are telling the voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Is attacking the media and/or public the brightest move for any candidate? Won't they rely on the media at some time during the next 8 months to get elected? Or are candidates even responsible for how their security handles the media and or the public? This whole thing with the Times reporter is disheartening, especially since it's become an epidemic with some candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 They really aren't.. Even democrats hate Hillary more than they hate Trump. Even Rubio, Cruz and Carson supporters hate Hillary more than they hate Trump... Even Bernie Supporters distrust Hillary more than they distrust Trump. This entire personal attack on Trump is geared to shore up Hillary's base and it's lame. Hillary has to present her own ideas and win favor with the electorate that way. She can't just engineer a victory even over trump by discrediting him. Not in the General. By the way, did you watch the John Oliver video about Donald Trump that someone posted in here earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 They really aren't.. Even democrats hate Hillary more than they hate Trump. Even Rubio, Cruz and Carson supporters hate Hillary more than they hate Trump... Even Bernie Supporters distrust Hillary more than they distrust Trump. This entire personal attack on Trump is geared to shore up Hillary's base and it's lame. Hillary has to present her own ideas and win favor with the electorate that way. She can't just engineer a victory even over trump by discrediting him. Not in the General. This isn't true. Please just stop making stuff up. I've already posted a link on Trumps negatives in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 They really aren't.. Even democrats hate Hillary more than they hate Trump. Even Rubio, Cruz and Carson supporters hate Hillary more than they hate Trump... Even Bernie Supporters distrust Hillary more than they distrust Trump. It's amazing how much stuff you make up on the fly without a shroud of evidence backing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/chris-christie-press-conference-donald-trump-219986 Christie shuts down Trump talk at press conference Chris Christie hosted a press conference on Monday following a rough weekend connected to his endorsement Friday of Donald Trump, but refused to talk about the man he said he was "proud" to support. Instead, Christie announced a nomination to the New Jersey Supreme Court, and only took questions about that subject. Anything about his support for Trump — who spent Sunday dealing with the fallout from his refusal to condemn the KKK — was ruled out. One reporter told Christie that he and, he assumed, other reporters in the room had some off-topic questions and began to launch into a question, but was immediately shot down.“No, I won’t permit you to. I told you that there’s going to be only on-topic questions today. So, permission denied,” Christie said. He silenced another reporter immediately afterward: “That’s an off-topic question. I think you understand that I’m answering on-topic questions today." Asked why he wouldn't take questions on anything else, Christie replied, "Because I don’t want to.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Even democrats hate Hillary more than they hate Trump. Ok..I'll edit. What's your proof, JMS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I don't think he has one. I think he's going to run on "Im not her!". And that's going to be enough for the Conservative base. And what I'm telling you is he's going to have to develop one. Every debate, he's being pushed to flesh out more details and right now, he's able to make most of the debate about the polling and electability. In the general, that goes away. I mean he'll get some core Republican vote no matter what, but if he runs on I'm not her, he won't win a general election. Her negatives are not that worse than his that he can win with that. If anything, his negatives are worse. (now, if there is something (more) in the e-mails, the Goldman Sachs speeches, or something like a recession happens than that shifts things.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 It's amazing how much stuff you make up on the fly without a shroud of evidence backing it up. I'm starting to wonder if this is a Andy Kaufman type of act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Ok..I'll edit. What's your proof, JMS? Should have left that in place. Damn that chart was incredible. All the GOP had to do was somehow push Rubio or Kasich into being the nominee and they probably had the election sealed likely with full congressional control as well. Trump is going to get eviscerated if those numbers hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I have a feeling Hillary will be far better at handling him than Rubio, Cruz, or Jeb. She's been doing this a long time and is pretty damn good at it. She's horrible at it. She comes across as arrogant, dismissive, and dishonest. And that's when the folks challenging her are themselves dishonest. She's going to get eaten alive. Bernie has done really well against her in the debates seeing her margins drop against him after each national appearance.. and that's when Bernie hasn't been about to directly question her as they do on the GOP side of the debates. She doesn't have very good political instincts, and she doesn't have a lot of charisma. Her chief asset will be her foreign policy experience, but foreign policy isn't what folks are interested in.. it's economy and trade. Is attacking the media and/or public the brightest move for any candidate? Won't they rely on the media at some time during the next 8 months to get elected? Or are candidates even responsible for how their security handles the media and or the public? This whole thing with the Times reporter is disheartening, especially since it's become an epidemic with some candidates. Remind me again what Ronald Regan slogan was when he ran for president in 1980? "Make America Great Again". Worked pretty well for him. Likewise Nixon, Carter, Clinton, George W. and President Obama all ran successfully on some variation of return the country to greatness. All of um.. It's a tried tested successful strategy to run your campaign on especially when folks are pissed.. And folks are PISSED. Hillary's new strategy of saying, She thinks things aren't that bad, is a LOOSER!!! and poor cover for her campaigns having no ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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