Election 16: Donald Trumps wins Presidency. God Help us all!

[Larry]

Shifting goal posts?

So you don't think they broke their end of the deal at all before Bush did?

Maybe I missed it. But I sure didn't see anything in there that said so.

I have a feeling Hillary will be far better at handling him than Rubio, Cruz, or Jeb. She's been doing this a long time and is pretty damn good at it.

And Hillary won't be fighting with one hand behind her back because she wants to court Trump's voters.

[DM72]

Starting with the baseline of 2008 election.

 

Will Hillary do better or worse than Obama?

 

Will Trump do better or worse than McCain?

 

If the answer is yes to both, the REAL question will be what the spreads will be between the two.

 

Hillary has yet to face an opponent attacking her.  But she's also been attacked for so long, it might not make a dent later.  Trump cant get any lower than he is right now can he?  By which I mean, at least SOME of the Cruz/Rubio voters will support him.

 

My guess.  In the end we have a race that's 48-46 in the end nationally with all eyes on Ohio or Florida on election night.

It won't be that close.

[twa]

 

 

My guess.  In the end we have a race that's 48-46 in the end nationally with all eyes on Ohio or Florida on election night.

 

Both states Trump is polling well in 

 

I hope things look better later in the week  

[DM72]

Ok..I'll edit.

What's your proof, JMS?

I think we'll be waiting a long time for that one.

[RedskinsFan44]

They really aren't.. Even democrats hate Hillary more than they hate Trump. Even Rubio, Cruz and Carson supporters hate Hillary more than they hate Trump... Even Bernie Supporters distrust Hillary more than they distrust Trump.

 

Have any liberal magazines devoted an entire issue to stopping her campaign?  What is the equivalent of Nikki Haley taking a swipe at Trump in her response to the SOTU? You seem completely blind to Trump's negatives.  "Well, he may be a little rough around the edges..."

 

You don't see any political downside to this?

 

Trump was pressed three times on whether he'd distance himself from the Ku Klux Klan -- but never mentioned the group in his answers.

"I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists," he said. "So I don't know. I don't know -- did he endorse me, or what's going on? Because I know nothing about David Duke; I know nothing about white supremacists."

[mistertim]

She's horrible at it. She comes across as arrogant, dismissive, and dishonest. And that's when the folks challenging her are themselves dishonest. She's going to get eaten alive. Bernie has done really well against her in the debates seeing her margins drop against him after each national appearance.. and that's when Bernie hasn't been about to directly question her as they do on the GOP side of the debates.

She doesn't have very good political instincts, and she doesn't have a lot of charisma. Her chief asset will be her foreign policy experience, but foreign policy isn't what folks are interested in.. it's economy and trade.

 

  Remind me again what Ronald Regan slogan was when he ran for president in 1980? "Make America Great Again".  Worked pretty well for him.  Likewise Nixon, Carter, Clinton, George W. and President Obama all ran successfully on some variation of return the country to greatness.   All of um.. It's a tried tested successful strategy to run your campaign on especially when folks are pissed.. And folks are PISSED.

Hillary's new strategy of saying, She thinks things aren't that bad, is a LOOSER!!! and poor cover for her campaigns having no ideas.

Those guys also had the advantage of not being screaming, cursing lunatics with no real policies who spend the majority of their time hurling grade school level taunts and insults at their opponents and anyone who disagreed with them.

 

They were all likeable (well, maybe not Nixon, but I digress) and were able to handle criticism or people making fun of them with wit and/or self-effacing humor. Even Dubya, while not as sharp as some of the others as far as debates, etc managed to have the sort of "aw shucks" demeanor when handling critics.

 

Trump is basically the opposite of those guys. He is thin skinned, has no realistic policies to put forward ("WIN! WINNING!" isn't a policy), lashes out in vulgar and immature ways at his opponents and critics, and has very little understanding of how government works (see George Will's article where he mentioned Trump talking about how a Justice "signed a bill").

[Burgold]

 

Hillary has yet to face an opponent attacking her.  But she's also been attacked for so long, it might not make a dent later.  Trump cant get any lower than he is right now can he?  By which I mean, at least SOME of the Cruz/Rubio voters will support him.

 

I'd qualify that. Sanders has not attacked her. The Republican candidates have already fired several shots, but more importantly, she has withstood 20 years of attacks. She endured a 9 hour Benghazi hearing that was little more than an attempt to undermine and attack her.

The idea that Clinton hasn't been through the gauntlet and will wilt if attacked is pretty laughable.  If she doesn't have thick armor by now 20 years of baseless witch hunts by the Republicans have truly meant nothing.

[JMS]

Ok..I'll edit.

What's your proof, JMS?

There is no excitement on the Democrat side of the house in the primaries. Each and every primary has fewer turn out than 8 years ago when the last primary was contested. And that's with Bernie having done a lot of outreach to new voters, and young people. Now look on the republican side of the race... Record turn outs across the board.

Now look at Bernies Message.. and look at how it dove tails with Bernies. The campaign system is broken and special interests run both parties to the detriment of the electorate.. and one of the chief perpetrators of this disfunction is Hillary. That's going to appeal to Bernie voters who are already going to be pissed at Hillary for steeling this nomination.

[No Excuses]

I'd qualify that. Sanders has not attacked her. The Republican candidates have already fired several shots, but more importantly, she has withstood 20 years of attacks. She endured a 9 hour Benghazi hearing that was little more than an attempt to undermine and attack her.

The idea that Clinton hasn't been through the gauntlet and will wilt if attacked is pretty laughable.  If she doesn't have thick armor by now 20 years of baseless witch hunts by the Republicans have truly meant nothing.

 

Yup. She's a seasoned champion of deflecting bull**** being thrown her way. The idea that a softie like Trump who couldn't handle Megyn Kelly will rattle her is highly amusing.

[twa]

And Hillary won't be fighting with one hand behind her back because she wants to court Trump's voters.

 

You think she will be more persuasive than Trumps opposition that are supposedly preaching to the choir?

 

How so?

[Burgold]

Now look at Bernies Message.. and look at how it dove tails with Bernies. The campaign system is broken and special interests run both parties to the detriment of the electorate.. and one of the chief perpetrators of this disfunction is Hillary. That's going to appeal to Bernie voters who are already going to be pissed at Hillary for steeling this nomination.

Yeah, but look at the biggest lie in Trump's campaign. He says he doesn't accept money from special interests. Well, for the last 30 years Trump has been a special interest group.

 

He is what he rails against. Someone who tries to buy off both parties to manipulate the system to maximize the problem. He is what Bernie rails against. He is the problem with Citizens United.

[No Excuses]

There is no excitement on the Democrat side of the house in the primaries. Each and every primary has fewer turn out than 8 years ago when the last primary was contested. And that's with Bernie having done a lot of outreach to new voters, and young people. Now look on the republican side of the race... Record turn outs across the board.

Now look at Bernies Message.. and look at how it dove tails with Bernies. The campaign system is broken and special interests run both parties to the detriment of the electorate.. and one of the chief perpetrators of this disfunction is Hillary. That's going to appeal to Bernie voters who are already going to be pissed at Hillary for steeling this nomination.

 

Still waiting on evidence for literally anything you stated in your earlier post. Your thoughts and feelings don't count.

[RedskinsFan44]

Should have left that in place. Damn that chart was incredible. All the GOP had to do was somehow push Rubio or Kasich into being the nominee and they probably had the election sealed likely with full congressional control as well. Trump is going to get eviscerated if those numbers hold.

Link?

[The Evil Genius]

Link?

 

The data is a month+ old. And it's only for the GOP candidates at the time.

 

[No Excuses]

Link?

 

 

http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/188177/trump-image-among-democrats-independents-negative-gop-candidate.aspx

 

There is this imaginary fairy land that JMS is creating where Donald Trump is the lord and savior that American people have been waiting for.

[The Evil Genius]

Ha..#winning

 

[JMS]

Have any liberal magazines devoted an entire issue to stopping her campaign?  What is the equivalent of Nikki Haley taking a swipe at Trump in her response to the SOTU? You seem completely blind to Trump's negatives.  "Well, he may be a little rough around the edges..."

 

You don't see any political downside to this?

Hillary is currently loosing in some national polls to a 74 year old self described socialist from Vermont who became a Democrat 3 weeks ago. You don't think that's an inditement of her credibility in the party with grass root likely Democrats?

 

Trump was pressed three times on whether he'd distance himself from the Ku Klux Klan -- but never mentioned the group in his answers.

"I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists," he said. "So I don't know. I don't know -- did he endorse me, or what's going on? Because I know nothing about David Duke; I know nothing about white supremacists."

(1) It's convent you left off the end of his quote where he said he disavow'd David Dukes endorsement.

(2) Calling Trump a racist is stupid. It's a looser strategy to win the Presidency. He's not a racist and when you look at the "racist case against Trump" is laughable.

(3) No amount of mud slinging is going to excuse the fact Hillary has no vision, no agenda, no ideas to justify her presidency on.

(4) The reason Hillary can't express any ideas to justify her presidency on.. is because she's running as a progressive in the primary.. plans on running as a moderate conservative in the general.. and then will push to the right to win her second term. Just like her husband did. Liberals aren't going to stand for it again.

Yup. She's a seasoned champion of deflecting bull**** being thrown her way. The idea that a softie like Trump who couldn't handle Megyn Kelly will rattle her is highly amusing.

Trumps campaign took off after his altercations with Megan Kelly.    Hillary couldn't handle a 74 year old socialist from Vermont when the moderate was in her pocket;  how is she going to handle the GOP nominee who just survived 15 debates which could have been televised by the WCW.

[mistertim]

 

 

http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/188177/trump-image-among-democrats-independents-negative-gop-candidate.aspx

 

There is this imaginary fairy land that JMS is creating where Donald Trump is the lord and savior that American people have been waiting for.

Yeah, but...he just like, KNOWS, man. He feels it in his gut.

 

 

EDIT: Seriously, I'm not usually a grammar or spelling nazi but can you PLEASE PLEASE stop saying "loose" when you mean "lose", JMS? It is driving me nuts.

[twa]

 

 

http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/188177/trump-image-among-democrats-independents-negative-gop-candidate.aspx

 

There is this imaginary fairy land that JMS is creating where Donald Trump is the lord and savior that American people have been waiting for.

 

So why isn't Trump losing now?

 

Favorables are clearly not determinant 

[Larry]

You think she will be more persuasive than Trumps opposition that are supposedly preaching to the choir?

 

How so?

OH, I'm not certain that Hillary's responses to Trump will cost him much support.

Just to pick out one segment of his base, I will observe that pointing out that Trump is courting the racist vote is very unlikely to cost him any votes from the people who are supporting him BECAUSE he's openly courting the racist vote.

Will it cost him votes among people who aren't supporting him (yet)? I could see it.

[JMS]

There is this imaginary fairy land that JMS is creating where Donald Trump is the lord and savior that American people have been waiting for.

According to that "poll". There are about half a dozen more popular candidates in the GOP this cycle than Trump.. Who's really living in an imaginary fairy land?

[Burgold]

So why isn't Trump losing now?

 

Favorables are clearly not determinant 

Because Trump is FOX News. He's Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, and Savage. He personifies the Republican discourse. He reflects their anger, invective, and their disregard for truth in favor of scoring points.

 

All evidence suggests that GOP voters gobble that stuff up. Republican voters celebrate lies as long as they are used to attack their enemies. They hate the establishment, hate democrats, hate mainstream media, hate government subsidies and programs except for those which they happily cash each month.

 

That's why Trump is winning. He reflects them or a larger segment of them than any other candidate.

You are what your score is. The GOP is currently Donald Trump. No matter how much they protest or revile that thought.

[No Excuses]

So why isn't Trump losing now?

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188069/jeb-bush-image-among-republicans-deteriorates.aspx?g_source=Election%202016&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles

 

Trump's favorability amongst a lot of Republican voters who are aware of him is high. His unfavorability is also really high (that's why his net favorability is low compared to others). This shows in poll numbers so far. He's pulling in lots of voters. But there are also more people who are coming out and voting against him as well.

 

This has been stated over and over and over in this thread. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

According to that "poll". There are about half a dozen more popular candidates in the GOP this cycle than Trump.. Who's really living in an imaginary fairy land?

 

It would help if you bothered to read that gallup poll in depth.

 

Here's another one that might help explain

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188069/jeb-bush-image-among-republicans-deteriorates.aspx?g_source=Election%202016&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles

 

If you don't understand what the data is showing, then I can't help you.

[s0crates]

It doesn't "offend" me, it just makes me sad that we've gotten to the point where pretty much every lowbrow 5th grade schoolyard insult is being hurled back and forth by people who are actually being considered for President of the United States.

I feel like I'm in the movie Idiocracy.

At least there's somebody presidential in the race.

 

[JMS]

So why isn't Trump losing now?

 

Favorables are clearly not determinant

Hell yeah according to that poll 5 other GOP candidates have higher favorability than Trump?

Most of those guys are no longer in the race too.