Bacon Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-popular-vote-victory_us_5827a2c5e4b02d21bbc91bbc Quote Hillary Clinton not only won the popular vote in Tuesday’s election. When all the votes are counted, it is likely that she will have won it by a margin larger than two candidates who went on to win the presidency. The official results of the election show Clinton with a popular vote lead over Donald Trump of about half of a percentage point. Votes are still being counted, however, with the outstanding ballots overwhelmingly concentrated in Democratic bastions like California, Washington state and New York. The Times’ Nate Cohn estimated on Saturday that there were a total of 7 million votes left to be counted nationwide. As of Thursday, more than 4 million votes had yet to be counted in California alone. That means that Clinton’s lead will almost certainly grow in the coming days. David Leonhardt, a columnist for The New York Times, noted on Friday that if current trends hold, Clinton will have a 1.7-percentage-point popular vote lead over Trump. That means Clinton will have a larger margin of victory than Richard Nixon had over Hubert Humphrey in 1968 or John F. Kennedy had over Nixon in 1960. (Her edge is also larger than Al Gore’s popular vote victory over George W. Bush in 2000, though he too was stymied by an electoral college loss.) This is a problem. Is this not a huge ****ing problem? Why doesn't my vote matter here in California? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Bacon said: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-popular-vote-victory_us_5827a2c5e4b02d21bbc91bbc This is a problem. Is this not a huge ****ing problem? It's a problem but not a huge one. It will be a huge problem when right wing authoritarians rig the electoral college so they can't ever lose a presidential election again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwvr Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, Bacon said: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-popular-vote-victory_us_5827a2c5e4b02d21bbc91bbc This is a problem. Is this not a huge ****ing problem? Why doesn't my vote matter here in California? it does - but in local and congressional votes, the constitution - which is a brilliant document protects the rights of all voters by giving each state by population delegates. So your vote is just as important as everyone else. Sorry if you don't get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 5 hours ago, No Excuses said: Yup. Mostly concerned about what happens when Trump is deemed not populist enough. It's bound to get worse IMO. He honestly might be a teaser for someone much more dangerous. Not sure who that is but he/she is lurking somewhere. I posted this longish read when we discussed populism over the summer. I think it's still relevant today: https://medium.com/all-of-us/we-want-a-political-revolution-first-we-must-defeat-fascism-a9df032f87d6#.onzqmlbps We are living in very exciting times. And we are living in very dangerous times. . . Why do I think Bernie would have been more viable? For the same reason that I thought Trump had the potential to win the Republican nomination since last summer: we are living in populist times. Let me be more specific than the pundits who have been throwing around the word populism willy-nilly in recent months, as if it were not much more than a bad mood swing of the American electorate. To be living in populist times is to be living in an era when political authority is no longer seen as legitimate by most people; what’s often referred to as a crisis of legitimacy. During such a crisis, populist movements and leaders emerge, from both the right and the left, in order to forge a new popular alignment of social forces. Populists explain the causes of the crisis, they name ‘the establishment’ as the problem, and they articulate a new vision forward — an aspirational horizon — for ‘the people.’ Left-wing populism and right-wing populism thus share certain rhetorical features (i.e., ‘the people’ aligned against ‘the establishment’), but their contents and consequences could hardly be further apart. The retrograde ‘aspirational horizon’ of right-wing populism tends to be in the rearview mirror: a nostalgic longing for a simpler time that never actually existed. More importantly, despite its ostensible anti-elitism, right-wing populism always punches down, unifying ‘the people’ (some of them) by scapegoating a demonized other: blacks, Jews, homosexuals, immigrants, Mexicans, Muslims — take your pick — depending on the opportunities available to the particular demagogue in the given context. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Isn't protecting the little guy over the big guy jibe with the democrat mantra? That's the EC in a nutshell. Also, Hillary lost white women- the group she resides in!!! That's worse than Gore losing Tennessee in 2000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, tomwvr said: it does - but in local and congressional votes, the constitution - which is a brilliant document protects the rights of all voters by giving each state by population delegates. So your vote is just as important as everyone else. Sorry if you don't get that. Funny you mention congressional votes. I'm in Virginia and we are represented by 8 Republicans vs 3 Democrats despite having voted for a Democrat for president 12 years in a row. Why is my vote worth 1/3 that of a Republican vote in my state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, tomwvr said: it does - but in local and congressional votes, the constitution - which is a brilliant document protects the rights of all voters by giving each state by population delegates. So your vote is just as important as everyone else. Sorry if you don't get that. That's an idealist viewpoint if I've ever seen one. With regards to the most important seat in government: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2012/11/presidential_election_a_map_showing_the_vote_power_of_all_50_states.html Quote The average electoral vote represents 436,000 people, but that number rises and falls per state depending on that state’s population over 18 years of age. (The map above shows the population 18 years and older per electoral vote by state.) The states with the fewest people per electoral vote, and therefore the highest “vote power,” are Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota. In Wyoming, there are 143,000 people for each of its three electoral votes. The states with the weakest votes are New York, Florida, and California. These states each have around 500,000 people for each electoral vote. In other words, one Wyoming voter has roughly the same vote power as four New York voters. skinsfan_1215 summed up my criticism of congressional votes above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 It may be time to just accept it and move on. It is a tough pill to swallow especially when the media declares her victory weeks before... they even planned fireworks for Christ sake.. she didn't even write a concession speech. slim chance on changing the constitution at least for many years, so my advice is to take it like a grown up and look to 2018 and congress. but I do get the frustration.. hell I had it in 2008 and 2012 and I knew they were going to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said: Funny you mention congressional votes. I'm in Virginia and we are represented by 8 Republicans vs 3 Democrats despite having voted for a Democrat for president 12 years in a row. Why is my vote worth 1/3 that of a Republican vote in my state? And I have had Dems representing me for 20+ yrs in congress why me Lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 minute ago, twa said: And I have had Dems representing me for 20+ yrs in congress why me Lord? Funny, that's not even close to relevant to my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said: Funny, that's not even close to relevant to my point. really?....I coulda swore you were complaining about the way districts are drawn. or was it that you are unhappy? both would be reflected in my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, twa said: really?....I coulda swore you were complaining about the way districts are drawn. or was it that you are unhappy? both would be reflected in my post Your vote is worth 2-3x more than Dems in your state. You'll be ok you poor oppressed snowflake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Silver Spring Not far from the chimpanzee incident with my GF last week. Yup. I'm ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Some of you really need to get off social media and go live life. Or get a second job. Something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 46 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said: Funny you mention congressional votes. I'm in Virginia and we are represented by 8 Republicans vs 3 Democrats despite having voted for a Democrat for president 12 years in a row. Why is my vote worth 1/3 that of a Republican vote in my state? I suspect it's because voters voted for those 8 Republicans in their districts? Didn't a Republican congressman just win in heavily democratic Northern Virginia this past week? 26 minutes ago, visionary said: Dodd-Frank to be Repealed...... Well you can't deny there are some silver-linings to Trump's election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, zoony said: Some of you really need to get off social media and go live life. Or get a second job. Something. My last 24 hours been good Fundraiser that I got to take my hot wife to, cleaned the deck, got a workout in, redskins win and the side gig just made me some $$$ Trump was right, I am winning too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 48 minutes ago, s0crates said: I posted this longish read when we discussed populism over the summer. I think it's still relevant today: https://medium.com/all-of-us/we-want-a-political-revolution-first-we-must-defeat-fascism-a9df032f87d6#.onzqmlbps I wish every Bernie supporter had read that article. He makes the common sense argument that they should vote for Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, nonniey said: I suspect it's because voters voted for those 8 Republicans in their districts? Didn't a Republican congressman just win in heavily democratic Northern Virginia this past week? It's because Virginia, like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Ohio, is one of the most gerrymandered states in the country. Barbara Comstock won her election because her district is the product of gerrymandering. The districts in Nova were drawn to cram as many Democrats into the 8th and 11th districts as possible and give the 10th a slight Republican lean. Comstock's district has a Cook PVI of R +2. The 8th and 11th are at D +16 and D +10 respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Comstock gets liberal parts of Loudon Co. and a swath of R leaning territory. It really is quite the joke because nothing about Loudoun is conservative, yet one of the most prosperous parts of NoVA ends up with a R congressman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 43 minutes ago, tomwvr said: it does - but in local and congressional votes, the constitution - which is a brilliant document protects the rights of all voters by giving each state by population delegates. So your vote is just as important as everyone else. Sorry if you don't get that. In theory our votes count equally. In reality, not so much. This cycle, a vote in Alaska is worth twice as many EVs as a vote in Washington state (ALA 1/8th votes, but only 1/4th EVs). The problem primarily stems from the Senator portion of a state's EVs. Now, normally this might not be an issue if number of won states is close or even, or at least the side that wins the most states also wins PV. This is where the population allocation issue has reared its head. Trump won 30 of the 51 (counting DC), while losing the popular vote. This gave him a non-population advantage of 18 EVs. People have tended to move towards population centers as the economy shifts away from a more decentralized industrial economy to a more centralized service based economy, and this has made places like NY and CA HUGE, but also lowered the value of a person's vote considerably compared to somewhere like Montana. The easiest fix would probably be to make the EC simply 438 instead of 538. But that would create a number of 1 EV states, and people would dislike it (though I must confess, I don't see the real problem, candidates rarely go to states that aren't swing states, which would ultimately be the majority of small states; the only "swing" state that would drop below 3 would likely be NH). Alternatively the number could be scaled back up so that every state had a minimum (like 3), but then make sure that EVs per registered voter were tied to whatever that number is. But either way, main point is that Senators give an advantage in the EC that can stand in opposition to the popular vote. Re-allocating population is hard, it's better for the system to be flexible instead of forcing average people, who are moving likely for economic reasons, to have to choose between their vote counting for less or their economic well being. 27 minutes ago, nonniey said: I suspect it's because voters voted for those 8 Republicans in their districts? Didn't a Republican congressman just win in heavily democratic Northern Virginia this past week? Yes and no. The 10th is an...interesting shape. As you can see, it starts out far to the west, well outside of what one would normally think of being "NoVA." As it gets closer to what we know as "NoVA" you can see how it sorts of tendrils into specific areas. See that little almost closed circle it makes around Reston? There's a reason for that. I'm from Reston, it's very blue. The 10th avoiding that area is kind of a clue in that something is up. Further, look at that area near Fairfax and Burke. The corner right below the name of Fairfax is caddy-corner to the GMU campus. GMU's students, at least as far as I remember (went there, and to a fair number of house parties) live primarily to the north and east of the campus, mostly within a mile. GMU has 30,000 registered students, and while it's probably not as liberal as some colleges (it has a very libertarian economics department), it still leans Democratic by a fair amount. The district isn't the worst example of gerrymandering, but there are definitely curious decisions. If you take that chunk near the bottom that encompasses large parts of Manassas out to the edge of Lorton and move it to Reston and fill in a bit to the west of Fairfax, does Comstock still win? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: The district isn't the worst example of gerrymandering, but there are definitely curious decisions. Just out of curiosity, I looked up what the actual worst might look like and found this humorous/terrifying list. https://pjmedia.com/zombie/2010/11/11/the-top-ten-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts-in-the-united-states/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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