The Rgiii Fumble - By The Rule Book .

[mitchellvii]

I don't think RG3 intended to go down at all. He lost his footing and stumbled.  That's why he didn't slide.  Anyway doesn't matter. Most snake-bit team I have ever seen.

[Travdaskin]

Are you guys seriously trying to argue that a forward dive is "giving yourself up"?  I'm not buying it because diving forward has never in my memory been the same as simply getting on the ground.  

 

 

He starts his dive, puts his hand down, then leans the ball forward trying to get that extra yardage and then BOOM fumbles it all by himself.  That too me is pretty obviously not giving himself up.  It was a fumble and it was a big time mistake from this teams leader.  

LOL so clumsy looking. In my book it was a fumble as well. Thems the rules folks. 

[Gibbit]

I don't think RG3 intended to go down at all. He lost his footing and stumbled.  That's why he didn't slide.  Anyway doesn't matter. Most snake-bit team I have ever seen.

 

All his slides look like a stumble, trip or some Tasmanian devil roll. That was a Robert slide. Also the correct call 

[hailyeah1]

Are you guys seriously trying to argue that a forward dive is "giving yourself up"?  I'm not buying it because diving forward has never in my memory been the same as simply getting on the ground.  

 

 

He starts his dive, puts his hand down, then leans the ball forward trying to get that extra yardage and then BOOM fumbles it all by himself.  That too me is pretty obviously not giving himself up.  It was a fumble and it was a big time mistake from this teams leader.  

both knees down ,slid forward alittle ,arm and ball hits ground ,arm pops up ,then ball pops loose he is still down ,shouldn't it been called  dead  with no forward progress when he hit the ground,.

it would have been different if he tried to get up and run.

the only reason why they called this a fumble is he seemed not to be touched until the ball popped out because of the ground  in which i thought the rule was the ground can't cause a fumble ..

i guess we are, for the moment ,snake bitten!!!

[beachboy757]

It was definitely a fumble.  Surprised so many forgot the prime time game( I think Giants vs Patriots) when the same thing happened to Eli.  It was funny then, not so funny now.  Like the previous poster stated all of Griffin's slides look like he slipped on a banana peel(very scary).  He has things to work on, but at least we saw flashes of the real "RG3".

[glongest]

I have no idea if the fumble cost them the game or not.  We will never know.  But I am confused.  I have always heard that the ground cannot cause a fumble.  Does that rule still exist?  If so would it have been different if someone tacked him and the ball came out when he hit the ground or is it just because he fell by himself.  The rule 7 quoted in this thread does not address this issue.  Clearly the ball came as a result of him hitting the ground.  So it that rule exists, then why would it not apply in this case.  That has nothing to do with if he was giving himself up or not.

[RiverboatGambler]

^^^^^

Amen to that. Berate him all you want but I saw definite progress as did many others around the social media sphere and various sports media.

[Bubble Screen]

I have no idea if the fumble cost them the game or not. We will never know. But I am confused. I have always heard that the ground cannot cause a fumble. Does that rule still exist? If so would it have been different if someone tacked him and the ball came out when he hit the ground or is it just because he fell by himself. The rule 7 quoted in this thread does not address this issue. Clearly the ball came as a result of him hitting the ground. So it that rule exists, then why would it not apply in this case. That has nothing to do with if he was giving himself up or not.

Did you watch the game? Hoculi clearly explained why it was a fumble, and Mike Pierera (sp) confirmed it was the correct call. If you go down head first, you have to hold into the ball long enough to be touched. Had he slid, feet first, it would have been that he was "giving himself up". Therefore, we would have retained possession.

In another thread, a bunch of our fans are whining that the Robinson play should have been a TD. Wrong. It was the right call.

I should probably just avoid The Stadium after losses. It's just not worth the aggravation.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I have no idea if the fumble cost them the game or not.  We will never know.  But I am confused.  I have always heard that the ground cannot cause a fumble.  Does that rule still exist?  If so would it have been different if someone tacked him and the ball came out when he hit the ground or is it just because he fell by himself.  The rule 7 quoted in this thread does not address this issue.  Clearly the ball came as a result of him hitting the ground.  So it that rule exists, then why would it not apply in this case.  That has nothing to do with if he was giving himself up or not.

The ground can't cause a fumble if you are down by contact. Any player that falls forward on the ground untouched is still live and therefore any fumble is live whether the ground causes it or not

[No_Pressure]

Watching the game in the stands it was apparent to me that:

 

1. Last season, Robert would have continued running and tried to break some tackles, ultimately being tackled a few yards beyond where he awkwardly dove into the field.

 

2. Because we're all terrified that Robert Griffin might play like that again given his injury last season, everybody on the planet has been yelling at Robert to get to the ground.

 

3. Robert decided to override his instincts, but a moment too late. He has likely practiced sliding though IMO he must have never played baseball much as a kid because holy ****, how difficult is it to slide?

 

4. His momentum and last second indecisiveness/newfound obligation to play away from his instincts combined to create a mental lapse where he dove at the ground and coughed up the football untouched.

 

I will say this, I'm troubled by the thoughts I read here today about Griffin from this fanbase. He made a couple of mistakes with the ball today that we are unaccustomed to, I.E. the fumble and the sideline interception. He had a couple of other questionable choices to try and fit the ball into a tight spot.

 

My assessment from watching him play? He's under pressure constantly, our offensive playcalling is bizarre and attempting to be too cute, too smart- but in all the wrong ways. On maybe 2-3 plays I noticed Robert had locked onto a guy and either: A. Fit a tight pass exactly where it needed to be to not get intercepted, B. Almost get intercepted, or C. Complete a pass to that guy while he had a big play possibility with the other guy. I recall watching moss walk back to the huddle as he was open in single coverage on a post route and RG3 didn't even check it, electing to throw to a single covered Pierre Garcon on an in route.

 

Aside from some hiccups he was absolutely fantastic to watch in person as always. I understand that losing like this has given us all the depressed "slit our wrists" feeling again, but RG3 has improved his field vision, passing, mobility, and confidence every game this season, and this is the first game I've seen where he really looked competent. There were errors, yes, but we wouldn't be worrying about them if Aldrick Robinson caught that perfectly thrown touchdown bomb.

 

Also, we have bigger concerns- I.E. there is 1:30 on the clock, we have 4th and what...2? inside the red zone with 2 timeouts and we elect to kick the field goal and go for the onside kick. Call me crazy but if you're basically going to let the game come down to either punching the ball ahead 2 yards with your star RB and offensive line, or let the game come down to whether or not you recover an onside kick, you go with the offense. We should have never kicked that FG at the end. We missed the onside kick because Niles Paul decided to prove to the world that he is indeed mentally challenged and touched a ball before it went 10 yards on an onside kick for (unless I'm mistaken) the second time in three games. With our defense and timeouts we got the ball back with 38 seconds left to score a touchdown. We saw the predictable end result- a failed hail mary.

 

I would rather have taken the 50/50 chance on getting the touchdown when we kicked the FG, kicking off, and then getting the ball back with 38 seconds only needing to get into FG range to tie the game. Losing the onside kick was what really lost it for us, so whats the difference between that and failing on 4th and turning over on a loss of downs other than the fact that the score was 27-20 rather than 27-17?

 

Also, we should have run an extra play before the two minute warning. I'm sorry but the play ended and the ball was being reset with 2:10 to go and we had a 1st down if I'm not mistaken. 9 seconds should be more than enough time to line those idiots up and hand the ball off up the gut to see what happens, or throw it again. It's essentially a free timeout, but god forbid we think about a little clock management. Even the drive of the hail mary we looked sluggish and uninterested in lining back up for the next play after some of those in-bounds completions. It's absolutely mind boggling how uninterested in winning our offense appeared to be.

 

Also, this game was well officiated. I could see it from the stands. Anyone who thinks it wasn't doesn't understand the game of football.

 

/ESSAY OVER.

[Dirt]

Since it's in the past, I'll think of it this way:

 

Payback for those fumbles last year that miraculously turned into touchdowns lol.  Now we're even, let's play ball.

[bedlamVR]

It is a mute point and the second angle Destino had makes it more conclusive that it was a fumble - It still looked like he was going to the ground to give himself up but i think the way the ball popped even if had slid I think that would have been close to a fumble ... I never saw that second angle before .

 

As for the int - that is QB just trying to do too much and make something out of nothing...SHOULD have thrown it away but sometimes I think there is nothing wrong with a QB trying to make a play - how many times would you shout at the TV with Mark Brunell who played (with us) on the conservative side and threw the ball away at the hint of danger ...

 

 

a mistake and we are in a 0-3 hole ... and it is frustrating because for the first time in weeks we looked competitive . - Season not done

[theTruthTeller]

In your analysis, you're ignoring the qualifier "and making no effort to advance." Had he come to a stop before fumbling, then the rule would apply.  But he was still moving forward.  On the other hand, if he slides, he is down as of the instant he begins to slide, so the ground cannot cause a fumble.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

If a player deliberately goes to the ground on his own he is giving himself up, which should mean that same rule applies as if he was touched down...no fumble, especially considering it was the QB. Whether he stretched out for extra yards or not, when he hits the ground the play is over. We saw V.Cruz get up and walk away not realizing he wasn't touched, so given Mara owns the Giants they received the "he gave himself up nonsense" as to not cause a problem for Mara's Giants.

 

So once again the league, and the ref's contradict themselves; any QB who slides head first on his own is fair game for on-coming defenders to go to the ground and drill him? After all he's apparently not down? Coincidently, that is all M.Vick does, nice knowing you Mike.

In the last few seasons I have seen this called more frequently, I also see a trend for ambiguous rules, which allows the refs to interpret a situation any way they like. That is how we learn how much the rest of the owners hate Snyder, I have been saying it for 10 years: the refs have their marching orders; Skins get the short end of the stick whenever possible! I don't care about sour grapes, it's been our reality since Snyder bought the team. Rules are interpreted differently at the expense of the Skins! 
 

As soon as I saw Edward "HGH" Hochuli, I new we were screwed! 



 

[Bubble Screen]

Seriously, can some of you guys please learn the rules. It was a fumble! He wasn't giving himself up by going down head first, therefore the ground CAN cause a fumble. If he slides feet first, we aren't having this conversation.

And Hoculi clearly explained the rule. Then Periera backed him up. RG3 screwed up. It's ok to admit it. The INT was also a dumb play.

[Zazzaro703]

The victor Cruz play the refs screwed up and was talked about a lot that week and Perrera said it was the wrong call as well. Giants just caught a break by the refs blowing the call.

Seriously, can some of you guys please learn the rules. It was a fumble! He wasn't giving himself up by going down head first, therefore the ground CAN cause a fumble. If he slides feet first, we aren't having this conversation.

And Hoculi clearly explained the rule. Then Periera backed him up. RG3 screwed up. It's ok to admit it. The INT was also a dumb play.

Bubble screen is right, the ball would have been marked where he stopped sliding from his dive or when he was tagged down. Ball was live and it was a tough break. As someone else said the griffin of past would have kept running, this was a play he isn't used to making so it wasn't natural to him and he lost focus. Was a great run though up until that we saw the burst he had last year shame for it to end like that.

[BridgesideSkins]

Landing on the ball is never a good thing when diving. Awesome run, I just want to see him kick that right leg under and "Steal second" if you will.

[RandyHolt]

If he didn't fumble, would the ball have been spotted at the 30 yard line?

 

For effect, think on an icy field and he slid 10 yards before touched. Making no effort to advance the ball. Just laying there, unprotected.  No swim motions. Not trying to make a football move. 

 

My point being, I think the ball would get spotted at the 30.  He fell down. He gave himself up. Its a QB. I thought there was unique rules for QBs more than feet first slides.

 

Somewhere in all this, baseball got indoctrinated into football. Its clearly not natural for our QBs to slide feet first.I got news folks, players slide head first in baseball.  And not every athlete played baseball. The Tom Brady "slide" is falling backwards since he has no forward momentum. 

 

I am not arguing if it was a fumble, I am curious where the ball would be spotted. 

 

LOL at the Robert "slide" and HGH Hoch. No LOL at being 0-3

[TheGreek1973]

Still can believe people want to give RGIII a pass on this play.  A world class athlete and can't slide?  Blows my mind.  

 

This was a fumble in fact can we play the game of football people.  i can't stand this BS about defenseless (lions got robbed on that call) receiver hits, RBs not being able to lower heads etc.  In a few year we will be seeing flag football.

[Burgold]

Still can believe people want to give RGIII a pass on this play.  A world class athlete and can't slide?  Blows my mind.  

 

This was a fumble in fact can we play the game of football people.  i can't stand this BS about defenseless (lions got robbed on that call) receiver hits, RBs not being able to lower heads etc.  In a few year we will be seeing flag football.

 

That's the camp I'm in.  I think we were robbed on the Robinson catch.  I did not see the ball squirt free.  I saw it move, but I have no idea if his hand was under it or not.  A ball is allowed to move, but must stay in the receiver's posession.  You can't show me a millisecond of the ball conclusively separated from the receiver.

 

The fumble was a fumble.  Seemed almost every single could play we either shot ourselves in the foot or were reffed.  The Fletcher defensive holding call was pretty amazing.  When was the last time you saw a blitzer being called for holding against a guard?

[RandyHolt]

I would love to see a gif of the Robinson drop. I was too busy dancing in the streets and missed the entire review process.

 

I trust Burgold's opine.  It's like the ball moving deems that it is incomplete, actual possession less so.

 

It moved. BFD. They need to go back to possession as the ball crosses the plane. If a WR drops the ball 2 seconds later, lets not act that he didn't break the plane with possession. I wish a WR would make a robotic or obvious football move after scoring next time, to mock the league. Yeah yeah, illegal celebration risk.

 

I think Detroit Lion fans can commiserate with us; screwed on a clear Calvin TD a while back.

[bedlamVR]

Seriously, can some of you guys please learn the rules. It was a fumble! He wasn't giving himself up by going down head first, therefore the ground CAN cause a fumble. If he slides feet first, we aren't having this conversation.

And Hoculi clearly explained the rule. Then Periera backed him up. RG3 screwed up. It's ok to admit it. The INT was also a dumb play.

 

You are absolutly right it was a fumble but you are exactly wrong that a QB or a player has to slide feet first (unless they have changed the ruling since 2011) to give them selves up .  All sliding does is give you a down by contact protection incase once you are down you do fumble the football - because in the case of the slide as soon as any point of your body other than your hands or feet touch the ground the play is over  . Section 7 .  

 

Also in section 7 To give yourself up all you have to do is be on the floor and making no attempt to progress . That was my point because people were going off on one about RGIII not sliding it is not necessary and is a releck from the days of plodding QBs who typically doubled up in baseball so the slide was a natural indication on the football field that a player was giving themselves up as it was in baseball .  

 

In this case the call was right - it was a fumble, it was out as he hit the floor end of story .. The point weather he slides or not is irrelevent

 

The problem I have is that it is a very grey area - but a grey area which has the potential to change the outcome of a game

[Wildbunny]

Hammerin hog I'm afraid there's no conspiracy here. Just players not knowing the rules (see the titans safety on kick off). Something that isn't new.

Honestly the qb false start aside, refs were pretty clear and made some good officiating.

Btw. Hitting a player laying on the ground os hitting a defenseless player which is a penalty.

Fumble was à fumble, incomplete was also incomplete. Robinson should have made situation clearer for the refs.

No need to argue refs officiating, you can only be wrong.

[justice98]

Regardless of the rule, you can't be coughing up the ball untouched.  RG3's ball security is suspect this year.  He's throwing it into crowds, fumbling it when he's not touched by a defender, he's gotta tighten it up.    

[MattFancy]

I was WAY more pissed by the INT TBH. 

 

The fumble came at the end of probably his best play of the year that was just like the dude we fell in love with last year. 

 

The INT was beyond ridiculously boneheaded and uncalled for. 

 

Hail. 

 

I didn't even realize he threw a pick. I thought it went out of bounds and there was a scuffle or something going on. I couldn't believe  he actually tried to complete that pass.