bedlamVR Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Everyone wants to jump on RGIII for the fumble - but I was thinking - back in 2011 (and the rules have not changed since then) I remember watching Victor Cruz going to the ground (essentially falling to the ground in space) he dropped the ball and it should have in a play that looked very much like the RGIII fumble . I thought at the time it should have been a fumble BUT in accordance with the NFL rule book; "Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 states that 'An official shall declare theball dead and the down ended: (e): when a runner is out of bounds, ordeclares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and makingno effort to advance.' " Clearly watching the replay RGIII was going to the ground and did not just fall and made no effort to get up to progress . Now I could be very wrong about this because I have only seen the play from the TV angle but it looked like he was down and then the ball popped out after the play should have been dead. People are also asking why he did not slide - well again a QB or runner does not have to slide to be considered giving himself up as the commentators suggested . Sliding gives extra protection in terms of fumbling ... " when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet;" - Note defenders must treat a sliding player as a player that is down by contact . But - The same rules state a player cannot leave it to the last minute to slide as if he does then the protection is not valid .On the two occasions RGIII was injured in 2012 he was sliding or in the process of sliding when the players hit him . The alternative to sliding is just giving yourself up - Still should have been a dead ball . I appreciate I could be wrong on this - and the ball could have been coming out before RGIII was down or the rule could have changed but I just wanted to point out before specific parts of the fan base have tarred and feathered griffin and run him out of town - that maybe Hochuli could have made a mistake here .. Rules I was looking at were here: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/10_Rule7_BallInPlay_DeadBall_Scrimm.pdf And I know it makes no difference now to the outcome but given the heat RGIII is getting I thought the rules should be considered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 By going head first he left it open to interpretation, though I do think he was trying to give himself up. The way his momentum was carrying him made it tough to get his feet under him, so I don't necessarily blame him for it. Just one of those tough breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMeast Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 If that is in fact the rule then the refs partially cost the Redskins the game. If not RGIII cost the Redskins a minimum of 6 points. Also, it seemed like he opted not to slide head first because he doesn't want to lead with the knee. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballin2041 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 yeah but I think this was close enough to the grey area where the call is right. Im not sure that RG3 100% slid. He looked more like he stumbled. Also, if you stay down for a sec then they usually blow it dead even if youre untouched but in this case, the ball popped out almost immediatly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 If the call was correct, the rule needs to be changed PERIOD. Watch that play and tell me he should have shifted his momentum so he could slide and you're saying you want QBs to stay exposed to hits longer and risk blowing out knees with awkward radical cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eparadox Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Might as well just put a rule in that states if a QB raises his hand up, the play is dead at that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I was WAY more pissed by the INT TBH. The fumble came at the end of probably his best play of the year that was just like the dude we fell in love with last year. The INT was beyond ridiculously boneheaded and uncalled for. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdskn4eva Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 NOOOOO....The refs didnt do anything wron here...RG3 needs to SLIDE. Period, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It was a fumble, and the touchdown was incomplete. End of story. Leave it alone guys...we aren't a bunch of sore losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkfan63 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Its moot at this point. The Redskins don't need interpretation on the rules. They need better, more disciplined players, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 While you're there, Can you find the rule where it says a hard count and turning your head is an offsides penalty on the QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Eli Manning did this during an Eagles game a few years ago and it was called a fumble. The Cruz call was a bad call. The solution is don't level it up the referee and just slide feet first. There is no excuse for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It was a fumble. A very poor play by the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinlanta Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Could someone give me specific point this fumble occurred....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 The solution is actually quite simple. DON'T ****ING LOSE THE BALL WITHOUT BEING TOUCHED. That's inexcusable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 NOOOOO....The refs didnt do anything wron here...RG3 needs to SLIDE. Period, end of story. A player running full speed and tilted forward needs to slide feet first. So much for the reconstructed knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_SKIN_OR_DIE Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 NOOOOO....The refs didnt do anything wron here...RG3 needs to SLIDE. Period, end of story. +10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I thought about this too at the time becuase it was my understanding as well that a player does not need to slide but can "give themselves up" which I think is fairly clear on replay. I also think sliding is preferable except RgIII decided to end the run too late, thereby not really leaving himself enough room/time to transition to a slide. So the main fault in my view is not deciding to end the run until it got too close for comfort (which also caused the awkward slam down to the ground contributing to losing the ball). And I agree, the interception is by far the worse decision and I think signs of a Qb who is feeling the pressure to do much. Everyone needs to relax and just focus on basic execution. Stop reading the press, stop looking at the score, stop looking at the record. Just go out and do your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadExField Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 While you're there, Can you find the rule where it says a hard count and turning your head is an offsides penalty on the QB? That one blew my mind as well, I see some of the most bogus calls while watching this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinlanta Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Just saw replay.....man he looked uncoordinated on that dive, just a dumb play by rob.....and he popped his hips on the hard count, that was stupid too.....it's ok....plenty of time left and I was very encouraged by rob today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It was a fumble... Now if RG3 didnt fumble as he hit the ground and was laying there and the defender took a cheap shot at him then refs would have protected him as a down player... I am 100% sure the ref could have thrown a flag on the defender... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I was WAY more pissed by the INT TBH. The fumble came at the end of probably his best play of the year that was just like the dude we fell in love with last year. The INT was beyond ridiculously boneheaded and uncalled for. Hail. Yep, but they were both avoidable mistakes that probably cost us 6 or more points. I have to remember that he's a young player who is still learning how to make plays when in the traditional offense. He was so comfortable all of last year that he's going to take some lumps as the ZR loses effectiveness. He's doing fine, all things considered. I think by November we will look much better and build some momentum for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 While you're there, Can you find the rule where it says a hard count and turning your head is an offsides penalty on the QB?Or that the refs don't need inconclusive proof that a ball touched the ground to overrule a TD. I mean, Hochuli stated to the crowd: "The Ball was rolling around on the ground" Did anybody get that picture from any angle? It looked to me like his hand was under it. I guess they have special camera angles from under the field that we don't know about. Somehow I bet the NSA is involved too, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 As I understand it: Slide feet first: the player is down when he touches the ground, and he can't be hit. Slide head first: the player isn't down, yet. He's still advancing the ball. He's down when he's touched. And the defense can hit him. (Because he's still advancing the ball). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Are you guys seriously trying to argue that a forward dive is "giving yourself up"? I'm not buying it because diving forward has never in my memory been the same as simply getting on the ground. He starts his dive, puts his hand down, then leans the ball forward trying to get that extra yardage and then BOOM fumbles it all by himself. That too me is pretty obviously not giving himself up. It was a fumble and it was a big time mistake from this teams leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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