I Don't Trust the Shanahans

[skinfan2k]

Dan Synder is right.  everyone and their mother wants to talk about this injury instead of where this franchise is headed and what they accomplished last year.  We are entering the next period of greatness in this franchise's history

[KingGibbs]

are you f****** kidding me? That's all I can say.

[DC9]

I've not seen MLS this fired up in a long time.  All I can say is good show, my brother.

[Rufus T Firefly]

 

 

 

I hate these semantics arguments.

 

Griffin cost the Redskins 2 extra first rounders and a second rounder. 

 

I think the extra picks were worth it. The Rams are getting 2 first round picks in the 20's and we get what very well could be one of if not the best QB in the history of the franchise. 

I think it was a great trade, and one that will define the franchise.

 

But it still cost what it cost. If I traded my car for someone else's, I wouldn't run around screaming "Hey, some dude gave me a car for FREE."

but you are talking in the wrong context.  you didn't lose anything in that trade. 

I am not talking in the wrong context at all. That car COST me a car. I SPENT a car to get another one.

 

If I traded my car plus two six-packs for a car, the new car didn't cost me two six packs, it cost me a car and two six packs.

yup you don't understand the point then.  we simply exchanged picks in 2012.  we lost 2 1sts and a 2nd.  

This is the post you responded to in the first place:

 

 

WSH - A QB that cost 3 first rd picks and a 2nd.

 

Why would we not protect that investment?

 

 

RG3 did cost us three 1s and a 2. That's what it cost the franchise to get him, period. And you keep telling people who say so that they are wrong. That's the exact same thing as claiming the car above cost 2 six-packs.

 

If you can't comprehend that, it's on you. I've wasted more than enough time on it.

[SpacePenguin]

Dan Synder is right. everyone and their mother wants to talk about this injury instead of where this franchise is headed and what they accomplished last year. We are entering the next period of greatness in this franchise's history

Negativity draws attention. Seriously, try going into threads and agreeing with the OP. You likely won't get a response. If you try to tear down the OP, you will.

A thread about distrusting the Shanahans will get much more attention than one singing their praises.

Llavar and Dukes kill in the ratings by trolling, basically....and so does most of the programming on NFLN and ESPN ;p.

It's not just sports, either....It's how social media (and to a lesser extent,traditional news media) has conditioned people to behave. But, negativity only sells because there is a market for it, so one can't solely blame the media, as the common man definitely has an predisposition for it. Like most things, its a two-way street. It's like the chicken(the public preference for negative news stories) and the egg(the media constantly pushing negative news stories). Which came first? I say both are factors.

Sorry, this is pretty far OT. It's a bad habit of mine that shows up when I feel a topic has run its course lol.

What time is kickoff tomorrow, anyways? I need to set an alarm.

[skinfan2k]

 

 

 

 

I hate these semantics arguments.

 

Griffin cost the Redskins 2 extra first rounders and a second rounder. 

 

I think the extra picks were worth it. The Rams are getting 2 first round picks in the 20's and we get what very well could be one of if not the best QB in the history of the franchise. 

I think it was a great trade, and one that will define the franchise.

 

But it still cost what it cost. If I traded my car for someone else's, I wouldn't run around screaming "Hey, some dude gave me a car for FREE."

but you are talking in the wrong context.  you didn't lose anything in that trade. 

I am not talking in the wrong context at all. That car COST me a car. I SPENT a car to get another one.

 

If I traded my car plus two six-packs for a car, the new car didn't cost me two six packs, it cost me a car and two six packs.

yup you don't understand the point then.  we simply exchanged picks in 2012.  we lost 2 1sts and a 2nd.  

This is the post you responded to in the first place:

 

 

>> 

WSH - A QB that cost 3 first rd picks and a 2nd.

 

Why would we not protect that investment?

 

 

RG3 did cost us three 1s and a 2. That's what it cost the franchise to get him, period. And you keep telling people who say so that they are wrong. That's the exact same thing as claiming the car above cost 2 six-packs.

 

If you can't comprehend that, it's on you. I've wasted more than enough time on it.

 

we lost the opportunity to select 3 more players, not 4.   whoever we would have gotten at 6 would be on the team. RG3 is that player with that pick.  every pick you have is free.  you are given 7 draft picks a year.  it doesn't cost anything to pick a player.  you have to make a selection.  

[wrecker]

Big deal. We have replacements and the schedule in the beginning of the year is not that yhard.

Many on this board claim they were screaming forRG3 to be pulled. Most of my fellow local fans said they were screaming at the TV he should be pulled myself included. If it was so obvious to the casual observer why not the head coach? I will never accept any of Shanny's BS stories about this. It just doesn't hold water.

[rick7423]

Oldfan, I usually like your posts, but you have gone over the edge here.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Well, no matter the cost. 

 

The reason we don't protect the investment more is because that would be taking away precisely the reason that investment cost so much in the first place. 

 

There wasn't a bidding war for Robert because he was sitting back in the pocket at Baylor and picking apart defenses. He cost that much because of plays like the end of the Oklahoma game. Because of the plays he can make while mobile. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I have to break off for this evening, guys. I'll pick back up tomorrow morning.

Personally, I don't care about trusting or liking the head coach of my team. A Joe Gibbs situation is great, but I'd be willing to bet that he wasn't honest with all of his players and coaches 100% of the time.

I want the coach of the Redskins to give my favorite team a great shot to win. I think the Shanahans do that so I'm set.

Oldfan, just for the record, you are fantastic at what you do here. I think I'm relatively bright and I don't think I'd be able to counter anything you argued in the OP.

[KCClybun]

For frak's sake.

 

 

The simplest explanation for how we traded up for RG3.

 

 

We swapped 2012 first round picks with St. Louis, and then gave them an additional 2nd round pick in 2012, a first rounder in 2013, and a first rounder in 2014.

[Skinsfan8402]

 

 

 

 

 

I hate these semantics arguments.

 

Griffin cost the Redskins 2 extra first rounders and a second rounder. 

 

I think the extra picks were worth it. The Rams are getting 2 first round picks in the 20's and we get what very well could be one of if not the best QB in the history of the franchise. 

I think it was a great trade, and one that will define the franchise.

 

But it still cost what it cost. If I traded my car for someone else's, I wouldn't run around screaming "Hey, some dude gave me a car for FREE."

but you are talking in the wrong context.  you didn't lose anything in that trade. 

I am not talking in the wrong context at all. That car COST me a car. I SPENT a car to get another one.

 

If I traded my car plus two six-packs for a car, the new car didn't cost me two six packs, it cost me a car and two six packs.

yup you don't understand the point then.  we simply exchanged picks in 2012.  we lost 2 1sts and a 2nd.  

This is the post you responded to in the first place:

 

 

>> 

WSH - A QB that cost 3 first rd picks and a 2nd.

 

Why would we not protect that investment?<

/p>

 

 

RG3 did cost us three 1s and a 2. That's what it cost the franchise to get him, period. And you keep telling people who say so that they are wrong. That's the exact same thing as claiming the car above cost 2 six-packs.

 

If you can't comprehend that, it's on you. I've wasted more than enough time on it.

we lost the opportunity to select 3 more players, not 4.   whoever we would have gotten at 6 would be on the team. RG3 is that player with that pick.  every pick you have is free.  you are given 7 draft picks a year.  it doesn't cost anything to pick a player.  you have to make a selection.  

 

 

Lol I normally just lurk the forums and have been for the past decade now, but you guys are killing me here!  It's honestly just semantics you're arguing.  Rufus is looking at the gross total cost, while 2k is looking at the net additional cost.  I tend to prefer looking at it in 2k's point of view.  We gave away three picks for the right to draft RGIII.

[WakkaWakka]

In terms of RG3, Shanahan, and who's to "blame" in the Seahawks game, has anyone brought up Cousins' observations from the sidelines yet?

???

Please share Cousins' observations.

[zoony]

A coach who was on ESPN's top 20 coaches of all time list, who has 3 superbowl rings and a bunch of players he's put in the hall of fame telling us that the read option makes the QB safer and yet we have some fans without a morsel of NFL experience/coaching knowledge telling him he's wrong? LMAO

 

I authored two threads telling this board that Mike was going to be wrong in trading for McNabb. Those threads were unpopular at the time also. 

 

On QBs I usually agree with Mike, though. I backed his position on giving John Beck a shot, for example. I saw the same potential he did. Jake Cutler was a fantastic pick for him in Denver, IMO.

You also started a thread called "it's okay to believe" when Vinny was appointed VP and hired Zorn

You've been wrong, dead wrong, in your prognosticating a lot more than you've been right over the years. A few threads ago I linked a half dozen or so of those threads directly. Iirc you claimed it was a personal attack.

That you have created a board persona of some sort of football guy because you pass off FOS ideas as your own and never stop telling people how smart you are seems to have worked for so many casual posters, who you so often deride as being wrong, except when they tell you you're smart. You're all ears then.

...

Ban me, I'm already banned.

And the Oscar for best dramatic performance in a bad thread goes to...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

In terms of RG3, Shanahan, and who's to "blame" in the Seahawks game, has anyone brought up Cousins' observations from the sidelines yet?

???

Please share Cousins' observations.

 

 

 

 

But Kirk Cousins, the Redskins' talented backup, who relieved Griffin in the Baltimore game and again in the Seattle game, recalls eavesdropping on an intense sideline conference between Griffin and Shanahan: "Robert, you're clearly limping, you're not at full strength, do you think you need to come out? And I'm not quoting anybody, I'm just paraphrasing. And Robert's attitude was: I'm okay. I understand there's a limp, but I'm going to be okay. I brought us this far, I want to finish this thing."

 

Cousins adds: "I think it was tough for Coach Shanahan to tell him no. And it was tough for Robert to back down. Both of them were in a tough spot, each guy's word against the other."

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/Mag15yeshecan/why-washington-redskins-qb-robert-griffin-iii-voice-generation-espn-magazine?src=mobile

[Oldfan]

TDWR --- Oldfan, just for the record, you are fantastic at what you do here. I think I'm relatively bright and I don't think I'd be able to counter anything you argued in the OP. 

 

Thank you for that. 

 

I haven't read all the posts yet, but so far, it doesn't look like anyone else is going to effectively counter my arguments either.

[Oldskool]

You know, I pop back into ES to see the new site, read a few posts and realize that nothing has changed.  

 

Thanks Oldfan for being as crazy as ever.

[Oldfan]

SpacePenguin --- A thread about distrusting the Shanahans will get much more attention than one singing their praises

 

Is that what you would do? Write just to get attention?

 

I've listed my arguments three or four times. Do you have anything to say to counter the points I made?

[Stadium-Armory]

We won the NFC east last year. I like the trajectory.

[Oldfan]

zoony --- You also started a thread called "it's okay to believe" when Vinny was appointed VP and hired Zorn

 

You've been wrong, dead wrong, in your prognosticating a lot more than you've been right over the years. A few threads ago I linked a half dozen or so of those threads directly. Iirc you claimed it was a personal attack. 

 

That you have created a board persona of some sort of football guy because you pass off FOS ideas as your own and never stop telling people how smart you are seems to have worked for so many casual posters, who you so often deride as being wrong, except when they tell you you're smart. You're all ears then.

zoony my stalker-moderator strikes again! zoony gets his ass kicked every time we have engaged in debate over the years. That explains the hate.

 

I mean, figure it out. Why is he the one bearing the grudge?

[SpacePenguin]

&amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

SpacePenguin --- A thread about distrusting the Shanahans will get much more attention than one singing their praises

&amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

Is that what you would do? Write just to get attention?

&amp;amp;amp;nbsp;

I've listed my arguments three or four times. Do you have anything to say to counter the points I made?

I already responded to your numbered list of questions, but you admittedly didn't bother to read all the posts in this thread.

Basically, I stated that the Shanahans should not be trusted, and make mistakes. I simply don't consider either honesty or perfection to be necessary traits in a coaching staff. Things like, oh I don't know, winning divisions, building a solid team, and developing an effective offense/defense rank slightly higher on my list of priorities.

So yeah, I probably wouldn't be much fun to argue with. I'm sure you'll find someone else to do that with though ;p

[Murphs56]

Time to move on. NFC East Title is ours for the taking and as fans we should focus on that goal as opposed to not trusting Shanahan. I think he's built this team pretty well all things considered: Cap Penalties, Major injuries, lost draft picks.

[Oldfan]

MLS --- OF, I always tried to defend your threads, but you lost me with this one sir. Why on the eve of the first pre-season game, coming off a division title, with a team that is still together, and added a couple of pieces, would you even start this thread to rehash the past?

 

What does my timing have to do with it? I'm not a kool-aid dispenser. If you need pumped up, there are other threads you can check out. I pick a side on controversial issues; I make arguments, and I try to generate debate. If you aren't interested in this topic, why post?

[Oldfan]

Space Penguin -- I already responded to your numbered list of questions, but you admittedly didn't bother to read all the posts in this thread.

 

I didn't bother? I said I hadn't read them YET.

 

Basically, I stated that the Shanahans should not be trusted, and make mistakes. I simply don't consider either honesty or perfection to be a necessary trait in a HC. Things like, oh I don't know, winning divisions and building a solid team rank slightly higher on my list.

 

Well, I'm concerned with those things too, but those things are dependent on other things like -- oh, I don't know -- the careful handling of our phenomenal QB, for example.

[Oldfan]

Well, no matter the cost. 

 

The reason we don't protect the investment more is because that would be taking away precisely the reason that investment cost so much in the first place. 

 

There wasn't a bidding war for Robert because he was sitting back in the pocket at Baylor and picking apart defenses. He cost that much because of plays like the end of the Oklahoma game. Because of the plays he can make while mobile. 

 

That explanation works to a point. RG3 is definitely worth more if he can be used as a runner. But, that doesn't justify handling his career recklessly. The Shannies knew or should have known that Robert isn't very good at self-protection. So,work on teaching him to protect himself better with scrambles. If he does that well, give his some designed runs. If he stretches a knee ligament, don' t put a brace on it and send him back out there. Set him down for the season; let it heal or have it repaired; and then bring him back next year.