I Don't Trust the Shanahans

[darrelgreenie]

Hahaha, I think we might be neck and neck for least liked member on this board OF.

 

You're bragging. You aren't even close.

Woah, woah, wooahhh Mahons, you gotta earn your stripes bro.

 Mix it up with a mod, then we'll talk.

[ArmchairRedskin]

I understand the X's and O's of the scheme just fine.  I also understand logic, and making your QB available for hits does not make the safer, plain and simple.

 

 

It actually isn't plain and simple. 

[Oldfan]

A coach who was on ESPN's top 20 coaches of all time list, who has 3 superbowl rings and a bunch of players he's put in the hall of fame telling us that the read option makes the QB safer and yet we have some fans without a morsel of NFL experience/coaching knowledge telling him he's wrong? LMAO

 

I authored two threads telling this board that Mike was going to be wrong in trading for McNabb. Those threads were unpopular at the time also. 

 

On QBs I usually agree with Mike, though. I backed his position on giving John Beck a shot, for example. I saw the same potential he did. Jake Cutler was a fantastic pick for him in Denver, IMO.

[darrelgreenie]

"I'd stake my reputation on John Beck and Rex Grossman" was a dumb lie meant to motivate the two quarterbacks and give the fans a tiny bit of hope that one of them would pan out. Neither of them did. I don't see Goodell showing up to take away his three Super Bowl rings, nor does anyone actually remember that he said that.

Mike blows a lot of smoke, but count me as someone (maybe the only one) that doesn't think Mike Shanahan was blowing smoke about John Beck. Complete speculation on my part but I think if it wasn't for Kyle (and his friendship with Wrecks that persists to this day) John Beck would have started that season.

[ArmchairRedskin]

A coach who was on ESPN's top 20 coaches of all time list, who has 3 superbowl rings and a bunch of players he's put in the hall of fame telling us that the read option makes the QB safer and yet we have some fans without a morsel of NFL experience/coaching knowledge telling him he's wrong? LMAO

 

I authored two threads telling this board that Mike was going to be wrong in trading for McNabb. Those threads were unpopular at the time also. 

 

On QBs I usually agree with Mike, though. I backed his position on giving John Beck a shot, for example. I saw the same potential he did. Jake Cutler was a fantastic pick for him in Denver, IMO.

 

 

There was never potential in John Beck. Not ever. The Shanahans were feeding you that line because they couldn't say that no QB on the roster was any good and that they were gonna draft one later.

[skinfan2k]

Mike S and Bruce have changed the culture and the attitude with this team in a short period.  We were a bottom 3 team in the NFL and now we are in the position to compete for a playoff spot every single year.  The next step he is working on is making a championship caliber team and that takes time.  He has 20 wins in his first 3 years which i think is excellent based on what he has brought in and what he threw in the trash. 

 

The plan has been limited because of the cap penalties.  I fully expect 2014 and 2015 to show us the true identity of MS and Bruce with full cap room and a full draft

[KCClybun]

"I'd stake my reputation on John Beck and Rex Grossman" was a dumb lie meant to motivate the two quarterbacks and give the fans a tiny bit of hope that one of them would pan out. Neither of them did. I don't see Goodell showing up to take away his three Super Bowl rings, nor does anyone actually remember that he said that.

Mike blows a lot of smoke, but count me as someone (maybe the only one) that doesn't think Mike Shanahan was blowing smoke about John Beck. Complete speculation on my part but I think if it wasn't for Kyle (and his friendship with Wrecks that persists to this day) John Beck would have started that season.

 

The untold story of John Beck is that basically none of the players respected his ability to help them win games, and they were a little annoyed at all the big talking he did. Rex clearly outplayed Beck in preseason, the players believed in Rex. It was pretty much Rex's job until he screwed up. 

 

 

It strikes me that there have only been a couple times I can recall the players ever speaking out versus a decision Mike made. Benching Rex for Beck was one of them. A lot of guys came out in defense of Rex and said that he deserved a second chance even after the really bad game he had.

 

 

And if Rex hadn't be battling Pneumonia, he probably would've come back sooner than he did.

 

 

I'm sure Mike really like John Beck and all, but Mike and Kyle might've been the only people that believed in him.

[SpacePenguin]

LOL....It doesn't matter if you distrust the Shanahans, OF. They aren't your priests, your babysitters, or your neighbors. You don't know them. I don't trust them either. I'd prefer results(like winning the division) over being trusted by fans anyway. Jim Zorn was a pretty honest guy, but most posters didn't appreciate that very much hahaha

Who do you want to bring in to coach instead? Matlock?

(Now watch OF quote each sentence and respond to it, like this is the UN or something )

And NLC, man.....I think your heart is going to explode from taking posts on a forum so seriously. Getting banned may be for the best ;p

Hehe, I kid I kid. I'm glad you guys are having fun in your own ways, I guess. I'm probably just in a good mood b/c its almost time for football.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I understand the X's and O's of the scheme just fine. I also understand logic, and making your QB available for hits does not make the safer, plain and simple.

Every time the ball is hiked you're making your QB "available for hits".

[Oldfan]

NLC --- There...there is nothing to debate here.

 

The main themes of the Shanahan refrains on their responsibility are debatable, but only if you feel up to the challenge. 

 

1. Why did the Shanahans call running plays for a QB that they knew, or should have known early on, was not good at protecting himself on runs?

 

2. How could Robert's dishonesty possibly be a problem when the effects of the knee injury were visible? It's not like it was an internal injury which required input from the QB.

 

3. Why bring such a valuable franchise asset back to play with a brace in the first place?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Mahone21. Off the topic, but the rg3 trade was only 2 1s and 2nd rounder. Last year we swapped 1st rounders.

We traded three 1s and a 2 for the pick that we used on Griffin. Hence, he cost three 1s and a 2.

[Oldfan]

ArmchairRedskin: There was never potential in John Beck. Not ever. The Shanahans were feeding you that line because they couldn't say that no QB on the roster was any good and that they were gonna draft one later.

 

So, you don't trust them either?

[nemocystem]

since the OP seems to be holden to conjecture as a basis of argument, i'll interject with my own perfectly plausible however, nonsensical conjecture based on similarly gleaned "facts" from a chaotically malleable source we like to call "one's own personal history."

 

what if.................wait for it........

 

what if the Shanahan's are playing on this "squabble" to further muddy the water.  you know....kinda like his own history would suggest...or like that guy over in New England.  sort of how they are just seemingly unwilling to provide ANY truth to the media unless it has been deemed that there are absolutely no negative on-field reprocussions that can be had from such comments.

 

just throwing this out there....but you know.....maybe the media is being made to carry this idea that Shanahan is turning blame onto his franchise player.  knowing that Shanahan will come out the "bad guy" in the situation for holding RGIII out of the 1st (and possibly more) regular season game.  also knowing that he can shoulder the blame & take all the negative media attention what with his experience in the NFL with just this sort of thing whereas RGIII might not necessarily need to deal with such trifles. 

 

they go on...play to the drama...making it seem like RGIII is ready, all the while knowing he is in fact not.  this way we expect that Shanahan has "learned from his past mistake" by holding out RGIII until he is in fact ready, while RGIII gets to play Pazi to the media & the crowd, conversely deflecting any criticism for his own part in this mellowdrama.

 

what's the plot you say?

 

well...meanwhile...in Philadelphia...they are preparing for a week 1 MNF matchup against the RGIII led Redskins in D.C...

 

dedicating many minutes to the Pistol/Zone-read offense.  perhaps the whole practice...perhaps just a portion...but certainly they won't be dedicating the bulk or even the entirety of practice & film to the tendencies or properties of a Kirk Cousins led Redskins offense.

 

while everyone is assuming this is all just fodder for the media, the Shanahan's have managed to glean (there's that word again) even a smidgen of an advantage by simply duping most people....& most importantly the Eggles organazation that RGIII is either going to play, or is at least in the conversation.

 

all RGIII needs to do is act like he is ready & continue to prepare & strengthen & study, & look good in front of mics & cameras & let everyone else do all the conjecture.

 

not saying this is so........but JUST AS FRIGGIN' LIKELY.

 

shaking my head......because it's spinning from all this pre-season conjecture!!!

[skinfan2k]

Mahone21. Off the topic, but the rg3 trade was only 2 1s and 2nd rounder. Last year we swapped 1st rounders.

We traded three 1s and a 2 for the pick that we used on Griffin. Hence, he cost three 1s and a 2.

We traded only 2 1sts and a 2nd additionally to get him.  We were going to get a player in 2012 draft in round 1.  It costs us 2 1sts and a 2nd to have the right to select him over the player we were going to select

[Mahons21]

 

Mahone21. Off the topic, but the rg3 trade was only 2 1s and 2nd rounder. Last year we swapped 1st rounders.

We traded three 1s and a 2 for the pick that we used on Griffin. Hence, he cost three 1s and a 2.

We traded only 2 1sts and a 2nd additionally to get him.  We were going to get a player in 2012 draft in round 1.  It costs us 2 1sts and a 2nd to have the right to select him over the player we were going to select

 

 

This can't seriously be that difficult for you to grasp.

 

We used a 1st round pick, traded 2 more, and a 2nd.

 

By your logic, I would have said Russel Wilson was free because they didn't trade any additional picks.

 

If Russell Wilson cost SEA a 3rd rd pick

 

Caepernick cost ST a 2nd rd pick

 

Then RG3 cost the Skins 3 1st's and a 2nd.

[Rufus T Firefly]

 

Mahone21. Off the topic, but the rg3 trade was only 2 1s and 2nd rounder. Last year we swapped 1st rounders.

We traded three 1s and a 2 for the pick that we used on Griffin. Hence, he cost three 1s and a 2.

We traded only 2 1sts and a 2nd additionally to get him.  We were going to get a player in 2012 draft in round 1.  It costs us 2 1sts and a 2nd to have the right to select him over the player we were going to select

Which still means he cost us three 1s and a 2.

[SpacePenguin]

The main themes of the Shanahan refrains on their responsibility are debatable, but only if you feel up to the challenge. 

1. Why did the Shanahans call running plays for a QB that they knew, or should have known early on, was not good at protecting himself on runs?

2. How could Robert's dishonesty possibly be a problem when the effects of the knee injury were visible? It's not like it was an internal injury which required input from the QB.

3. Why bring such a valuable franchise asset back to play with a brace in the first place?

1. Because they allowed their egos/competitive spirits to override their better judgements.

2. Because they felt that Robert had gotten the Skins there, and that he deserved to see it through it he was at all able, for better or worse.

3. See 1 and 2.

I pretty much agree with you on this OF.....I just don't think most good HCs are trustworthy, much less perfect in their decision making.

They won the division, and Cousins looks to be serviceable at the very least, so what's the big deal if they ride Griff til he gives out?

[nemocystem]

@Mahons....actually...i fundamentally disagree.  your arguments assumes that we had to seperately acquire an additional 1st round pick.  in fact, we maintained our current pick & moved forward in position.  if it cost us a 1st in 2012, then it also cost the Rams a 1st to select their pick by that logic.

 

to clarify...the Redskins had 6 coins & 2 future coins coming their way.  they wanted to acquire a more flashy 6th coin than the one they already had.  so they had to pay their 2 future coins + two of their current, less-lustred coins in order to gain the current, more precious coin.  it may be true that they gave up a total of 4 coins in order to acquire 1 very awesome coin...but 2 of those coins, in truth, are equal to 1 coin based on the currency depriciation value.

[skinfan2k]

 

 

Mahone21. Off the topic, but the rg3 trade was only 2 1s and 2nd rounder. Last year we swapped 1st rounders.

We traded three 1s and a 2 for the pick that we used on Griffin. Hence, he cost three 1s and a 2.

We traded only 2 1sts and a 2nd additionally to get him.  We were going to get a player in 2012 draft in round 1.  It costs us 2 1sts and a 2nd to have the right to select him over the player we were going to select

 

 

This can't seriously be that difficult for you to grasp.

 

We used a 1st round pick, traded 2 more, and a 2nd.

 

By your logic, I would have said Russel Wilson was free because they didn't trade any additional picks.

 

If Russell Wilson cost SEA a 3rd rd pick

 

Caepernick cost ST a 2nd rd pick

 

Then RG3 cost the Skins 3 1st's and a 2nd.

He is free in the aspect that he was the selection that you had already.  You didn't trade anything further to select him.  

[KCClybun]

 

NLC --- There...there is nothing to debate here.

 

The main themes of the Shanahan refrains on their responsibility are debatable, but only if you feel up to the challenge. 

 

1. Why did the Shanahans call running plays for a QB that they knew, or should have known early on, was not good at protecting himself on runs?

 

2. How could Robert's dishonesty possibly be a problem when the effects of the knee injury were visible? It's not like it was an internal injury which required input from the QB.

 

3. Why bring such a valuable franchise asset back to play with a brace in the first place?

 

 

1.) Because they figured he'd learn eventually. And through the second half go the season he did learn and he did a much better job protecting himself up until the point where he got hurt.

 

 

2.) Because the coach wanted to believe his player when he said he was okay and didn't want to pull his best player out of a big game.

 

3.) Because the doctor's deemed him healthy enough to play and because playing without the brace would've been dumb, and he would've take a crap load of **** from people (especially fans like you) if Robert was healthy and he decided not to play him, instigating the same stupid "quarterback controversy" bullcrap.

 

 

 

Of course none of these are reasonable responses to you. You want Mike to do **** your way. So why even pretend you're looking for a debate when you just want to talk **** in a slightly more intelligent fashion than your average troll?

[skinfan2k]

Of course none of these are reasonable responses to you. You want Mike to do **** your way. So why even pretend you're looking for a debate when you just want to talk **** in a slightly more intelligent fashion than your average troll

 

That's the beauty of all of his threads.  He writes a book, expecting responses from others.  He doesn't both to respond to any valid comments and his opinion is better than everyone else and everyone else is below him. 

[Oldfan]

SpacePenguin --- It doesn't matter if you distrust the Shanahans, OF. 

 

It bothers me that Redskins fans have been sold the idea that RG3 lied to Mike and that Mike's only fault was to believe him. It bothers me that most believe that RG3 is soley responsible for his injuries because he isn't good at protecting himself. And, it bothers me that fans don't seem to be questioning the decision to put our stellar QB back out on the field wearing a brace in the first place.

 

It seemed like a good topic for discussion to me.

[KCClybun]

 

SpacePenguin --- It doesn't matter if you distrust the Shanahans, OF. 

 

It bothers me that Redskins fans have been sold the idea that RG3 lied to Mike and that Mike's only fault was to believe him. It bothers me that most believe that RG3 is soley responsible for his injuries because he isn't good at protecting himself. And, it bothers me that fans don't seem to be questioning the decision to put our stellar QB back out on the field wearing a brace in the first place.

 

It seemed like a good topic for discussion to me.

 

No one on planet Earth has blamed Robert SOLELY for what happened in Seattle and you ****ing know it.

 

These are called lies, people. Know them when you see them.

[Oldfan]

I have to break off for this evening, guys. I'll pick back up tomorrow morning.

[RG3Hunna]

Teams are incorporating it because it was successful.

 

So far the teams that have:

 

SF - With a QB they invested a 2nd rd pick in

SEA - With a QB they invested a 3rd rd pick in

PHI - Who knows who their QB is, they haven't invested heavily in one

BUF - If they do, a 1st rd pick

 

WSH - A QB that cost 3 first rd picks and a 2nd.

 

Why would we not protect that investment?

 

Furthermore, do you not realize that after how things went down last season, Mike and Kyle have motives to say it protects their QB?

Oldfan was admiring the bears organization how they're so upfront with news and posted this article on why they drafted Kyle Long.

 

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2013/04/q_a_bears_gm_phil_emery_on_og_.html

 

Yet here goes the bears organization you hail with praise sending mixed signals/blatant lies to their fans/media about the read option?

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/31/bears-send-mixed-signals-on-read-option/

 

LMAO 

 

 

You realize he was talking about Emery their GM right?

 

Do you see anything about Emery in that article?  Or is it just Trestman and Cutler?

So wait let me get this right he's bashing Shanahan because the GM of the bears Emery is forthcoming with info and our Shanny the head coach isn't? Repeat that again and see if that makes any sense. Why are you bashing our head coach because a GM of a team gives out info? lmao