***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Destino]

5 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Kevin Love making $22 million a year to go 1-9 in game 3 while KD drops daggers.

He outplayed Draymond tonight, I thought.  His shot wasn't falling but he was a monster fighting for boards and had six steals on top of that.  

 

How much is Tristan Thompson making?  8 points 11 rebounds.... total through three games.  

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Tough for the Cavs down the stretch.  Still an incredible game.  

 

Can't believe Lebron let KD pull up for that 3.  Slim Reaper.  Heartless.

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Destino said:

He outplayed Draymond tonight, I thought.  His shot wasn't falling but he was a monster fighting for boards and had six steals on top of that.  

Kevin Love is better than Draymond.  But he's the only guy in their top 3 that's better than his counterpart on the Warriors.  I thought maybe LeBron could still hit his SSJ2 gear and outplay everyone else like he did last year but Durant is going stride for stride with him.  Actually he's outplaying LeBron TBH.  And it goes without saying Curry is a thousand times better than Irving and the Cavs have absolutely nothing like Klay Thompson or Iggoudala.

 

The second best team in the league can't match up.

[DM72]

So, will this LeBron is the ? talk stop if he gets swept? It might be over anyway, but a sweep should end it.

[Renegade7]

Interesting point Kerr made in his press conference, he wasn't worried about LeBron going off because he expected him to get tired and slow down eventually.  He was almost wrong, and I believe LeBron played well enough to win tonight.  I keep waiting for this 50 point game from him in these finals, but I'm starting to wonder if that will ever come.

[Fergasun]

Lebron was tired in the end... at least 2 layups he missed in the final 5 minutes.  

[Fergasun]

Besides the 2 layups, the open floor strip by Curry and not even able to create the 3... were big issues for Lebron... could even throw in deferring with Irving, Smith, Korver taking shots on previous possessions... still had the type of game he needed for Cavs to win... 

[Chew]

39 minutes ago, DM72 said:

So, will this LeBron is the ? talk stop if he gets swept? It might be over anyway, but a sweep should end it.

 

I would think so. LeBron would fall to 3-5 in finals series, to include being swept.  That should end the GOAT talk and MJ23 comparisons.  

 

Bron will go down as a top 5 player of all-time. But GOAT he is not. 

[Destino]

1 minute ago, youngchew said:

 

I would think so. LeBron would fall to 3-5 in finals series, to include being swept.  That should end the GOAT talk and MJ23 comparisons.  

 

Bron will go down as a top 5 player of all-time. But GOAT he is not. 

It would be the second time he was swept in the finals, both times occurring when he ran into a clearly more talented team.  Lebron never had the great coach though, and it doesn't seem that he was ever interested in playing for one.  Meanwhile the teams that beat him have all played excellent team basketball under very respected and successful coaches (Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors). 

[ixcuincle]

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 hours ago, Destino said:

It would be the second time he was swept in the finals, both times occurring when he ran into a clearly more talented team.  Lebron never had the great coach though, and it doesn't seem that he was ever interested in playing for one.  Meanwhile the teams that beat him have all played excellent team basketball under very respected and successful coaches (Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors). 

 

Ehhh, I'm not sure how good of a coach Steve Kerr is.  I think anyone on this message board could roll the ball out for the Warriors and let them play.  I like Kerr but the notion that he's some kind of a coaching genius...I'd like to see what he could do against a better team.  Or in 5 years from now when GSW might have a totally different roster than they do now.  Seem like a team culture guy, not sure how he is with the X's and O's.  He fell into probably the best situation any first time coach could ask for.  How'd he do for the Wizards?  Would he moved the needle at all?  Not sure.  But the Warriors didn't seem to miss a beat when Luke Walton or Mike Brown were coaching.

[Bonez3]

For me, LeBron out-thinks himself in these big moments. 

 

Yea, he made some amazing passes last night. He also made some unnecessary ones and allowed Kyrie to over dribble at end of game.Kobe would have easily had 50 last night with that game pace and defensive scheme. Further, nobody touches the ball under 1 minute down by 1. I'm sorry, best player in the world (not) has to have the ball. He was taking it to the rim with ease, when he had his legs under him.

 

I agree with Kerr, fatigue played a role. How can you not go and steal ball from Kyrie in that spot. LeFraud

Edited June 8, 2017 by Bonez3

[Renegade7]

7 hours ago, Destino said:

Lebron never had the great coach though, and it doesn't seem that he was ever interested in playing for one. 

 

This is one of my biggest gripes with the guy. 

 

It has seemed for years that he didn't want to play for a coach that was a bigger star then him.  That's that passive aggressive control thing that we've seen rear its ugly head every once in a while, especially in Cleveland, like getting that one coach fired so he could get Lue in charge.  He has that entire Cavs franchise by the balls because he keeps signing these mini-contracts so there's always the threat of him leaving if he doesn't get what he wants. 

 

If Jordan was ever like that, please someone correct me, I'm all ears.

[Bozo the kKklown]

I have no problem with Lebron wanting to control team situations. Its his career, and he shouldnt have it wasted by bad management. A lot of fans think thats okay, but it aint.

 

The problem with Lebron is that he can't play in a structure and does not want too. Cleveland has rebounding specialists, has other playmakers, and shooters yet Lebron wants to do it all. He wants to dominate the ball. Look at what he is doing and what the Warriors are doing. No one player dominates the ball on the Warriors like Lebron does, yet Lebron wants to play that way.

 

Amazing player. Top 3 ever but that has always been his flaw. He doesn't make his teammates better. He finds open shots for them but it dont make them better. No one on Cleveland can put the ball on the court except Kyrie because they not empowered to do so. Lebron has reverted back to that first Cavs stint where he has the ball all the time and everyone else stands and watches.

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Ehhh, I'm not sure how good of a coach Steve Kerr is.  I think anyone on this message board could roll the ball out for the Warriors and let them play.  I like Kerr but the notion that he's some kind of a coaching genius...I'd like to see what he could do against a better team.  Or in 5 years from now when GSW might have a totally different roster than they do now.  Seem like a team culture guy, not sure how he is with the X's and O's.  He fell into probably the best situation any first time coach could ask for.  How'd he do for the Wizards?  Would he moved the needle at all?  Not sure.  But the Warriors didn't seem to miss a beat when Luke Walton or Mike Brown were coaching.

stop it slime. stop it.

 

Kerr is the 2nd best head coach in the NBA. Like I am not even going to get too on you, but the ball movement, the defensive strategies, the screens on screens on screens.

 

Mark Jackson shoulda won an NBA title if this roster was so easy to coach.

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I have no problem with Lebron wanting to control team situations. Its his career, and he shouldnt have it wasted by bad management. A lot of fans think thats okay, but it aint.

 

The problem with Lebron is that he can't play in a structure and does not want too. Cleveland has rebounding specialists, has other playmakers, and shooters yet Lebron wants to do it all. He wants to dominate the ball. Look at what he is doing and what the Warriors are doing. No one player dominates the ball on the Warriors like Lebron does, yet Lebron wants to play that way.

 

Amazing player. Top 3 ever but that has always been his flaw. He doesn't make his teammates better. He finds open shots for them but it dont make them better. No one on Cleveland can put the ball on the court except Kyrie because they not empowered to do so. Lebron has reverted back to that first Cavs stint where he has the ball all the time and everyone else stands and watches.

stop it slime. stop it.

 

Kerr is the 2nd best head coach in the NBA. Like I am not even going to get too on you, but the ball movement, the defensive strategies, the screens on screens on screens.

 

Mark Jackson shoulda won an NBA title if this roster was so easy to coach.

 

Oh come on.  Draymond is way better now then when Jackson was there and of course there wasn't Durant.   All of those guys are, they weren't ready to win when Jackson was there.  They were close, but not quite there.  ****, Kerr gave Jackson props the other day in a press conference for making them a tougher defensive team.  

 

Kerr is a good coach but it's not brain surgery to get screens set to get Curry and Klay open for a three.  As mentioned, Luke Walton who had NO coaching experience stepped in last year and took em over halfway to 73 wins.  Mike Brown hasn't missed a beat in the postseason.  There's no noticeable dip in GSWs performance no matter who the coach is.  

Edited June 8, 2017 by Spaceman Spiff

[Bozo the kKklown]

14 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Oh come on.  Draymond is way better now then when Jackson was there

Why do you think that is? Who kept Draymond in the starting lineup? Who didnt give Draymond more than 20 minutes a game? This is called coaching.

 

Quote

All of those guys are, they weren't ready to win when Jackson was there.  They were close, but not quite there.  ****, Kerr gave Jackson props the other day in a press conference for making them a tougher defensive team.  

Did you watch the Warriors when Mark Jackson coached versus Kerr the next season? Do you see a difference in how they play? 

 

Quote

Kerr is a good coach but it's not brain surgery to get screens set to get Curry and Klay open for a three. 

And yet Jackson wasnt doing that.

 

Quote

As mentioned, Luke Walton who had NO coaching experience stepped in last year and took em over halfway to 73 wins.  Mike Brown hasn't missed a beat in the postseason.  There's no noticeable dip in GSWs performance no matter who the coach is.  

They are running Kerr's system. I bet you didnt know that Kerr was the one running practice, setting pregame strategies, and making half time adjustments. Did you know that?

[Going Commando]

46 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

If Jordan was ever like that, please someone correct me, I'm all ears.

 

Different era.  Offensive basketball was about a hundred times more structured back then.  The triangle system is rigidly defined compared to the PnR and ISO offenses run today.  And Jordan had far more of an off ball game than LeBron.

 

Jordan played for two of the greatest coaches in the history of the sport.  He trusted his coaches and didn't undermine them.  If you think about it, LeBron has never learned how to be coached.  He didn't go to college and get that experience of playing in a very structured environment for an authoritarian coach.

[Bozo the kKklown]

Kobe didnt goto HS and he also allowed himself to be coached and played off the ball. So did KG. So did many other high school to NBA players. Lets not go with that tired cliche that is unfounded..

 

NBA coaches arent authoritarian either. The ones that are end up getting ran out.

 

Lebron's problem is he doesn't want to use his off the ball game, not that he don't have one. He displayed it in Miami, but always fought it. Its not KD levels, but its good. (and KD's one year of college ball didnt teach him how to play off the ball either)

 

Cleveland indulged him and it hampered the team. The media won't point it out either because most in the media don't understand this sport better than a lot of us in this forum.

Edited June 8, 2017 by BenningRoadSkin

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Why do you think that is? Who kept Draymond in the starting lineup? Who didnt give Draymond more than 20 minutes a game? This is called coaching.

 

Did you watch the Warriors when Mark Jackson coached versus Kerr the next season? Do you see a difference in how they play? 

 

And yet Jackson wasnt doing that.

 

They are running Kerr's system. I bet you didnt know that Kerr was the one running practice, setting pregame strategies, and making half time adjustments. Did you know that?

 

Draymond was the 35th overall pick.  Show me a pick in the 30s that routinely cracks his team's starting lineup from the first game of his rookie season.

 

I have watched the Warriors and I do see a difference.  But that also neglects that these guys have gotten more experience in becoming better players and becoming better teammates.  Sure, that's some coaching mixed in with the individuals hard work but that doesn't automatically make Kerr the best or 2nd best coach in the league.  He's in the conversation but I'll still maintain that he came into a great opportunity, made even better with the acquisition of Durant this year.

 

I know it's Kerr's system but there have been times where he wasn't in the building.  What was he doing, phoning in halftime adjustments to Luke at the break?  C'mon.  Dude even said it himself that it was ridiculous that Walton didn't get credit for any of the wins he got while he wasn't around.  Kerr only ran practice while Walton was out sick:  http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14423725/steve-kerr-runs-golden-state-warriors-practice-luke-walton-sick  Therefore it was Walton running practices while Kerr was out.  Article even says Kerr wasn't making trips with the team, etc.  

 

[Sticksboi05]

1 hour ago, Bonez3 said:

For me, LeBron out-thinks himself in these big moments. 

 

Yea, he made some amazing passes last night. He also made some unnecessary ones and allowed Kyrie to over dribble at end of game.Kobe would have easily had 50 last night with that game pace and defensive scheme. Further, nobody touches the ball under 1 minute down by 1. I'm sorry, best player in the world (not) has to have the ball. He was taking it to the rim with ease, when he had his legs under him.

 

I agree with Kerr, fatigue played a role. How can you not go and steal ball from Kyrie in that spot. LeFraud

 

Kobe would've shot 70 times to get those 50 points and the Lakers would've lost by 30.

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

This is one of my biggest gripes with the guy. 

 

It has seemed for years that he didn't want to play for a coach that was a bigger star then him.  That's that passive aggressive control thing that we've seen rear its ugly head every once in a while, especially in Cleveland, like getting that one coach fired so he could get Lue in charge.  He has that entire Cavs franchise by the balls because he keeps signing these mini-contracts so there's always the threat of him leaving if he doesn't get what he wants. 

 

If Jordan was ever like that, please someone correct me, I'm all ears.

 

The CBA was different than, which made contracts different, but Jordan signed a series of one year contracts his last few years with Bulls, which certainly gave him a large amount of power.

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

16 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Draymond was the 35th overall pick.  Show me a pick in the 30s that routinely cracks his team's starting lineup from the first game of his rookie season.

This is irrelevant to anything. And it was Draymond's 3rd year when Kerr was coach.

 

Quote

I have watched the Warriors and I do see a difference.  But that also neglects that these guys have gotten more experience in becoming better players and becoming better teammates.  Sure, that's some coaching mixed in with the individuals hard work but that doesn't automatically make Kerr the best or 2nd best coach in the league.  He's in the conversation but I'll still maintain that he came into a great opportunity, made even better with the acquisition of Durant this year.

What's the difference? What are the Warriors doing different under Kerr than Mark Jackson?

 

Quote

I know it's Kerr's system but there have been times where he wasn't in the building.  What was he doing, phoning in halftime adjustments to Luke at the break?  C'mon.  Dude even said it himself that it was ridiculous that Walton didn't get credit for any of the wins he got while he wasn't around.  Kerr only ran practice while Walton was out sick:  http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14423725/steve-kerr-runs-golden-state-warriors-practice-luke-walton-sick  Therefore it was Walton running practices while Kerr was out.  Article even says Kerr wasn't making trips with the team, etc.  

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/15/steve-kerr-attends-warriors-practice-during-west-finals/

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/05/14/listen-to-the-halftime-talk-steve-kerr-gave-the-warriors-during-game-1-on-sunday-video/

7 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

The CBA was different than, which made contracts different, but Jordan signed a series of one year contracts his last few years with Bulls, which certainly gave him a large amount of power.

 

yeah, he forced the Bulls to keep that group ogether.

Edited June 8, 2017 by BenningRoadSkin

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

The CBA was different than, which made contracts different, but Jordan signed a series of one year contracts his last few years with Bulls, which certainly gave him a large amount of power.

 

 

 

I see.  From looking at it, his last two contracts in Chicago were 1 year deals, or was he just about ready to be done (not really threaten to leave)?  You really feel he did that to exert the same type of pressure and control that LeBron has been exerting on Cleveland?  Another part of my post involved not exerting a certain amount of pressure and control on his own coaching staff.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Renegade7

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Amazing player. Top 3 ever but that has always been his flaw. He doesn't make his teammates better. He finds open shots for them but it dont make them better. No one on Cleveland can put the ball on the court except Kyrie because they not empowered to do so. Lebron has reverted back to that first Cavs stint where he has the ball all the time and everyone else stands and watches.

 

Other than Kryie, they have no other player that can routinely make a play against the person that is guarding them.  He got numerous other people open looks last night and good opportunities.  That's making your teammates better and not just open 3's (He made multiple very good passers to cutters.).

 

And in terms of playing off the ball, who is playing off the ball with?  Kyrie has no court vision and like I said they don't have anybody else that can take their man to play off the ball with.

[PeterMP]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I see.  From looking at it, his last two contracts in Chicago were 1 year deals, or was he just about ready to be done (not really threaten to leave)?  You really feel he did that to exert the same type of pressure and control that LeBron has been exerting on Cleveland?  Another part of my post involved not exerting a certain amount of pressure and control on his own coaching staff.

 

I don't know how much pressure he's exerting in Cleveland.  At the time that Blatt was fired, the rumor was that Lebron wanted Mark Jackson and they hired Lue partly in defiance of Lebron.

 

Clearly, by the time that Jordan was signing those contracts he was comfortable with Jackson, but the Bull's management didn't like Jackson.  Is forcing management to keep a coach they didn't like exerting pressure, then I suspect likely yes.  I think is very likely that if the Bull's had let Jackson go the year before Jordan's last year (Jackson was hired on a one year contract for that season and told no matter what the next year he was gone) that Jordan would have walked away from the Bulls.

 

But mostly, this seems to be a pre-determined argument that Lebron is "bad" by asserting he has a level of control in the Cavs because of the number of years in the contracts that as far I know it isn't clear that he has.

 

The 1 year contracts/opt out options allow him to maximize his (NBA) earnings.

Edited June 8, 2017 by PeterMP