***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just now, PeterMP said:

 

Other than Kryie, they have no other player that can routinely make a play against the person that is guarding them.  He got numerous other people open looks last night and good opportunities.  That's making your teammates better and not just open 3's (He made multiple very good passers to cutters.).

 

And in terms of playing off the ball, who is playing off the ball with?  Kyrie has no court vision and like I said they don't have anybody else that can take their man to play off the ball with.

Its not about looks, its about empowerment.

 

This was JR Smith with the Nuggets

 

 

 

This is Kevin Love

 

 

 

Someone mentioned the Triangle earlier. Rick Fox and Robert Horry didnt put the ball on the court either, but the offense was about movement.

 

This Cavs offense has none of that.

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

I don't know how much pressure he's exerting in Cleveland.

he told Gilbert that he would only sign if he was willing to spend what it took to win the title.

 

And this roster is full of shooters, which is what Lebron loves.

 

Lebron does not want to run a motion based offense. He wants to dominate the ball.

[PeterMP]

35 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Its not about looks, its about empowerment.

 

This was JR Smith with the Nuggets

This is Kevin Love

 

Someone mentioned the Triangle earlier. Rick Fox and Robert Horry didnt put the ball on the court either, but the offense was about movement.

 

This Cavs offense has none of that.

he told Gilbert that he would only sign if he was willing to spend what it took to win the title.

 

And this roster is full of shooters, which is what Lebron loves.

 

Lebron does not want to run a motion based offense. He wants to dominate the ball.

 

Oh, please, those were years ago (especially in the context of Love and his back injury) and against teams that are not as good as the Warriors under situations where the defenses were not as dialed in at stopping people as an NBA championship game.

 

Labradford Smith once went off on Jordan (a very good defensive player) for 37 points.  Turning your offense over to Lebradford Smith against any defender in an NBA championship game would have been dumb.

 

The offense has movement in it centered around Lebron.  He made a good play the other night that got the ball to Thompson at the rim.  Thompson failed to make the next pass and ended up taking a dunk which got blocked.  They even pointed it out during the telecast, the next pass should have been to the corner.

 

Love and Lebron have good court vision and that's it.  Curry and Green are at least equals to them from there, from there you pick up Iggy, Klay and Durant who clearly have better court vision than anybody on the Cavs.  Smith, Irving, Thompson, Shumpert, Williams (he's giving them nothing) are all essentially ball stoppers or shooters (Jefferson actually seems like he has pretty good court vision, but he's a guy at the end anyway).  There's more ball movement in the GS offense because they have more people that can move the ball.

 

(Is it anybody else, but does Thompson seem to have completely lost his explosion?  I wonder after signing the big contract if he got a little lazy or his legs are bothering him somehow.)

 

For all of the attention the stars get, watching the games, I wonder how much this series would change if you just swapped some bench parts.  I feel like swapping Shumpert or Williams for Livingston might actually swing it to the Cavs.

Edited June 8, 2017 by PeterMP

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just now, PeterMP said:

 

Oh, please, those were years ago (especially in the context of Love and his back injury) and against teams that are not as good as the Warriors under situations where the defenses were not as dialed in at stopping people as an NBA championship game.

 

Labradford Smith once went off on Jordan (a very good defensive player) for 37 points.  Turning your offense over to Lebradford Smith against anybody especially in an NBA championship game would have been dumb.

 

The offense has movement in it centered around Lebron.  He made a good play the other night that got the ball to Thompson at the rim.  Thompson failed to make the next pass and ended up taking a dunk which got blocked.  They even pointed it out during the telecast, the next pass should have been to the corner.

 

Love and Lebron have good court vision and that's it.  Curry and Green are at least equals to them from there, from there you pick up Iggy, Klay and Durant who clearly have better court vision than anybody on the Cavs.  Smith, Irving, Thompson, Shumpert, Williams (he's giving them nothing) are all essentially ball stoppers or shooters (Jefferson actually seems like he has pretty good court vision, but he's a guy at the end anyway).

 

(Is it anybody else, but does Thompson seem to have completely lost his explosion?  I wonder after signing the big contract if he got a little lazy or his legs are bothering him somehow.)

 

For all of the attention the stars get, watching the games, I wonder how much this series would change if you just swapped some bench parts.  I feel like swapping Shumpert or Williams for Livingston might actually swing it to the Cavs).

I used those videos to show they have that ability and we have seen it for years.

 

Love especially in the high post finding cutters could be valuable. But instead Lebron has him taking corner 3s and JR Smith standing at the corner.

 

I do not believe the Cavs would win this series, but the Cavs need an offense that isnt Lebron pound the ball and find someone, which is what he wants.

 

And I am not allowing this bench stuff. The Cavs have 9 lottery picks on their roster which is an NBA record. They also had the best playoff offense in NBA history (based on offensive rating) until they went against the Warriors. It is a loaded and stacked team. It is a super team.

[PeterMP]

8 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I used those videos to show they have that ability and we have seen it for years.

 

Love especially in the high post finding cutters could be valuable. But instead Lebron has him taking corner 3s and JR Smith standing at the corner.

 

I do not believe the Cavs would win this series, but the Cavs need an offense that isnt Lebron pound the ball and find someone, which is what he wants.

 

And I am not allowing this bench stuff. The Cavs have 9 lottery picks on their roster which is an NBA record. They also had the best playoff offense in NBA history (based on offensive rating) until they went against the Warriors. It is a loaded and stacked team. It is a super team.

 

Lebron readily gives Kyrie the ball and shots and even important shots.  To think that he would mind if giving up possessions to Love in the high post is laughable.  The problem is that against good defenders in a dialed in defense and the injuries Love has had, there's little reason to think it would work as an offense.

 

9 lottery picks on a team is a meaningless number. I'm not sure who the 9 are, but if people like RJ and Williams were lottery picks, it is essentially meaningless now.  Anthony Bennett was a lottery pick to.  Add him to the GS to give them more lottery picks and send Green over to the Cavs (who isn't a lottery pick) and see what happens.

 

(Though, I'd generally agree.  They are a super team, which is why they've made multiple championships in a row and won one.  They just aren't as super as a team that was already at an NBA championship level and added a future HOF and all time great in the prime of his career.)

Edited June 8, 2017 by PeterMP

[Bozo the kKklown]

5 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Lebron readily gives Kyrie the ball and shots and even important shots.  To think that he would mind if they gave possessions to Love in the high post is laughable.

 

9 lottery picks on a team is a meaningless number.

He gave the ball to Kyrie to ISO. How often do the Warriors ISO?

 

And 9 lottery picks mean they have a stacked and talented team, especially with teh shooting. If the Warriors weren't around, the Cavs would be running roughshod over the NBA.

[PeterMP]

23 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

He gave the ball to Kyrie to ISO. How often do the Warriors ISO?

 

So we're blaming Lebron for Kyrie's iso now?  Kyrie was the one that waved away the pick.  That's either got to be on the coach for not calling a play or Kyrie.

 

(I'll point out that one of the biggest plays of the game for GS consisted of a player dribbling up the floor and then off of his dribble without a single other player touching the ball shooting a 3.  Lot's of movement on that play.   Pull up 3s coming down the court are a regular part of the GS offense (and an effective part that then makes lots of other things work.))

Edited June 8, 2017 by PeterMP

[Bozo the kKklown]

22 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

So we're blaming Lebron for Kyrie's iso now?  Kyrie was the one that waved away the pick.  That's either got to be on the coach for not calling a play or Kyrie.

 

(I'll point out that one of the biggest plays of the game for GS consisted of a player dribbling up the floor and then off of his dribble without a single other player touching the ball shooting a 3.  Lot's of movement on that play.   Pull up 3s coming down the court are a regular part of the GS offense (and an effective part that then makes lots of other things work.))

Who is blaming Lebron for Kyrie's iso? My point was not about Kyrie running an iso, but that their offense is entirely predicated on isolations. Lebron got Blatt fired last year because he did not want to run a motion offense and instead run iso ball.

[PeterMP]

Sort of related to the bench, one place I would criticize the Cavs this year (and it might be Lebron's doing) is there is no way I would have carried Jones this year at all.  You know in a championship series he's essentially going to give you noting.  I would have given that roster spot to a younger guy in hopes that I could get something out of him by the end of the year.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

This is irrelevant to anything. And it was Draymond's 3rd year when Kerr was coach.

 

What's the difference? What are the Warriors doing different under Kerr than Mark Jackson?

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/15/steve-kerr-attends-warriors-practice-during-west-finals/

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/05/14/listen-to-the-halftime-talk-steve-kerr-gave-the-warriors-during-game-1-on-sunday-video/

yeah, he forced the Bulls to keep that group ogether.

 

Ok dude, the first article talks bout how he's spent time away from the team and that the 4 straight days are the first time he's been back in quite awhile.

 

The second article talks about how he gave them a pep talk in one game.  One.  Game.

 

The facts remain that Steve Kerr has spent large chunks of time away from the team over previous seasons.  You can keep turning a blind eye to it if it makes you feel better.  I'm not saying he's a bad coach but I think it's quite a leap to say he's one of the best in the game when his team functions just as well when he's not there.  

 

What's the difference?  Faster pace, more passes.  IIRC, when Jackson was there they were a team that had the least amount of passing.  They've bought into a more team oriented approach, which is fitting from a glue guy during his playing days like Kerr was.  Also, more volume of three pointers, too.

 

Draymond being the 35th pick is absolutely relevant.  It's no secret that a high pick gets more chances and can get to start right away.  In addition, someone scouted him and liked him enough to draft him.  I'm assuming Jackson had a hand in making that selection as well.  He was also behind David Lee on the depth chart.  Consequentially, he developed over the previous two years before Kerr and assumed the starting role after David Lee went down with an injury.

 

Sure, Jackson's coaching style is different than Kerr's but the fact remains that Draymond didn't have much run during his first two seasons.  He's developed more under Kerr because...well, David Lee went down and he stepped up.  Their players got better and you can argue that was a function of Kerr being a good coach, I'd argue that it's guys collectively coming into their primes together.  Maybe it's both.

 

 

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Who is blaming Lebron for Kyrie's iso? My point was not about Kyrie running an iso, but that their offense is entirely predicated on isolations. Lebron got Blatt fired last year because he did not want to run a motion offense and instead run iso ball.

 

Oh please.  You blamed him in that post.  Your post boils down to:

 

1.  Who is blaming Lebron?

2.  It is Lebron's fault that they run a lot of iso because he got Blatt fired because he didn't want to run a motion offense (which of course assumes Lebron got Blatt fired).

 

(Did you really not see that when you posted that?)

 

The fact of the matter is that they won a championship last year with Lue running his offense.  Also, I've not broken down all of their sets over the last few years, but my understanding from I've read is that they actually run more motion under Lue than Blatt.

 

As I've already explained, they don't run a lot of motion team because they don't have players that are good at moving the ball.  Tristan Thompson isn't a good passer.  Neither is Kyrie.  etc.

Edited June 8, 2017 by PeterMP

[Bozo the kKklown]

2 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Oh please.  You blamed him in that post.  Your post boils down to:

 

1.  Who is blaming Lebron?

2.  It is Lebron's fault that they run a lot of iso because he got Blatt fired because he didn't want to run a motion offense.

 

(Did you really not see that when you posted that?)

 

The fact of the matter is that they won a championship last year with Lue running his offense.  Also, I've not broken down all of their sets over the last few years, but my understanding from I've read is that they actually run more motion under Lue than Blatt.

 

As I've already explained, they don't run a lot of motion team because they don't have players that are good at moving the ball.  Tristan Thompson isn't a good passer.  Neither is Kyrie.  etc.

last year aint this year.

 

And LAst year it also took a crazy confluence of events.

 

The Cavs dont run a lot of motion because Lebron doesnt want to run a lot of motion. He wants to dominate the ball and find guys like he has done his whole career.

[Bozo the kKklown]

6 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Ok dude, the first article talks bout how he's spent time away from the team and that the 4 straight days are the first time he's been back in quite awhile.

 

The second article talks about how he gave them a pep talk in one game.  One.  Game.

 

The facts remain that Steve Kerr has spent large chunks of time away from the team over previous seasons.  You can keep turning a blind eye to it if it makes you feel better.  I'm not saying he's a bad coach but I think it's quite a leap to say he's one of the best in the game when his team functions just as well when he's not there.  

 

he dipped in the Utah series.

 

he came back versus the Spurs.

 

Kerr was there every game of the Spurs series in the locker room.

 

And again, they are running Kerr's system. Kerr was very involved in the game planning.

 

Quote

What's the difference?  Faster pace, more passes.  IIRC, when Jackson was there they were a team that had the least amount of passing.  They've bought into a more team oriented approach, which is fitting from a glue guy during his playing days like Kerr was.  Also, more volume of three pointers, too.

Right. More passes. More movement off the ball. Less isolation play. Its a completely different offense than what Mark Jackson ran, so miss me with the "you can put anyone out there and get this result" because that was not the case. That is called coaching.

Quote

Draymond being the 35th pick is absolutely relevant.  It's no secret that a high pick gets more chances and can get to start right away.  In addition, someone scouted him and liked him enough to draft him.  I'm assuming Jackson had a hand in making that selection as well.  He was also behind David Lee on the depth chart.  Consequentially, he developed over the previous two years before Kerr and assumed the starting role after David Lee went down with an injury.

I guess I will repeat, Draymond was in his 3rd year when Kerr came to the Warriors. Its irrelevant too because Draymond is better than Lee. Jackson had no idea how to use him despite seeing him every day. Kerr let him be a defensive force and the 2nd ball handler. 

Quote

Sure, Jackson's coaching style is different than Kerr's but the fact remains that Draymond didn't have much run during his first two seasons.  He's developed more under Kerr because...well, David Lee went down and he stepped up.  Their players got better and you can argue that was a function of Kerr being a good coach, I'd argue that it's guys collectively coming into their primes together.  Maybe it's both.

Its not coaching "style" and I am not entirely convinced you know what that means. Its their tactical approach to the game. Its the lineups he uses. Mark Jackson believed in having a big man to protect the rim. Kerr basically broke out a cheat code using Draymond as the rim protector while also having ball handlers and length at every position, including center.

 

Its called coaching. The Warriors are obviously very talented, but Kerr made them a super team while Jackson had them barely winning 50 games and losing to the Clippers. The Warriors have not lost to the Clippers since Kerr took over.

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

last year aint this year.

 

And LAst year it also took a crazy confluence of events.

 

The Cavs dont run a lot of motion because Lebron doesnt want to run a lot of motion. He wants to dominate the ball and find guys like he has done his whole career.

 

I thought you weren't blaming Lebron for Irvings iso.  It is either Lebron's fault they run a lot of iso, OR them running a lot of iso is the result of the desire and skills of the total collection of pieces (especially Irving as the 2nd best offensive player on the team).

 

In the playoffs Irving is isoing 29.5% of his plays (only behind Wade Baldwin).  Lebron is down at 23.2% (which puts him behind stars on OK, Hou, Tor, and Ind).  Kawhi is at 21% so not to far below Lebron.  Are Spurs with Leonard running an iso offense because of Kawhi?

 

Look, GS is an exception.  Their top iso player in the playoffs is Klay and Durrant at 8.9%, which is below the top iso and top iso stars of other teams.  But they are an exception because of the total quality (2 people that are going to be in the GOAT at their positions at least where no other team has more than one) and the skills of everybody else (a lot of people that are good at ball movement). Every other playoff team has a star player with a higher value than that and isn't because no other team in the league wants to run a motion offense.  It is because the other teams don't have enough players with enough (of the right) skills to do it as well or as much as GS.

Edited June 8, 2017 by PeterMP

[PeterMP]

I honestly thought, I could just post in this thread and be okay, but even this has gotten ridiculous.

 

It isn't Lebron's fault that Irving runs isos, but it is Lebron's fault they are an iso team?

 

Change of topic- If Thompson is going to give them essentially nothing.  They should move him to the bench and use more of Korver and Frye.

 

How about: Love, Irving, James, Korver/Frye, Smith/Shumpert and then run some Love/James pick and rolls.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This Cavs team is actually pretty great.

 

This Warriors team is unprecedented. Because of the way the NBA is covered, we sort of buried them this year for only having one of the ten best seasons ever. And now they are bout to go "Fo Fo Fo Fo."

 

It's entirely possible that what we are witnessing is maybe the best team ever figuring it out. The Heatles didn't exactly master everything until their third year. The Warriors may have done that now. Would anyone be shocked if they won 70 next year?

 

I don't know when sports writing became a series of "If Team X did Thing Y, they would be beat Team Z."

 

I honestly think that what the Cavs need is Anthony Davis. They are literally an all-star short right now. Which is just madness.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Going Commando]

The Warriors and Cavs need to be broken up.

[Hersh]

Interesting conversation and to me it's one reason why Lebron doesn't compare to Jordan. Jordan would do whatever it took to win as far as system, plays to run, and where to operate on the floor. Lebron has never really embraced that. This guy should have be one of the all time post players and he just didn't want to be that. As BRS is saying, Lebron wants iso ball. (facing the basket from the three point line) Speaking of running a bad system, I'll never understand why Cleveland traded for Kevin Love only to make him a 3-pt shooter. If Cleveland went inside more in game 3, they win going away. 

[Sticksboi05]

I just don't get why people thought this was going to be a competitive series in the first place. Takes about 1 minute of looking up and down the rosters to realize GS has too much for Cleveland.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

7 hours ago, Hersh said:

Interesting conversation and to me it's one reason why Lebron doesn't compare to Jordan. Jordan would do whatever it took to win as far as system, plays to run, and where to operate on the floor. Lebron has never really embraced that. This guy should have be one of the all time post players and he just didn't want to be that. As BRS is saying, Lebron wants iso ball. (facing the basket from the three point line) Speaking of running a bad system, I'll never understand why Cleveland traded for Kevin Love only to make him a 3-pt shooter. If Cleveland went inside more in game 3, they win going away. 

 

James played 45 minutes and 31 seconds, and was +7. Cleveland lost by five.

 

http://deadspin.com/lebron-is-not-enough-1795919399

 

(That may be the most amazing single game stat I've ever seen).

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

2 hours ago, Sticksboi05 said:

I just don't get why people thought this was going to be a competitive series in the first place. Takes about 1 minute of looking up and down the rosters to realize GS has too much for Cleveland.

 

I think a lot of people looked at last years finals turn-around for the Cavs (even though Curry wasn't close to 100% and they had no KD) and combined that with this years regular season match-ups an thought the Cavs would/could pull out a couple of wins.  

 

Probably thought the regular season split would get them to 6-7 games, when we all know that doesn't necessarily mean anything.  Game three was definitely the closest game of the series thus far, but unlike the regular season match-up in Cleveland, GS' bench didn't fail them and Curry, KD and Klay were on fire.  

 

Cavs starters outscored the Warriors starters 102-95, but almost all of that came from Irving and LBJ.  Love was a whopping 1-9 shooting on the night.  Bench was crap too only giving them 11 points compared to 23 points from the Warriors bench.  

 

I have a strong feeling that the Warriors get the sweep tonight.  Then LBJ heads to the west coast to play.

 

Edit:  When I say he will leave for the west coast, I mean after next season when he can opt out of his 3rd year.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Hersh]

13 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

James played 45 minutes and 31 seconds, and was +7. Cleveland lost by five.

 

http://deadspin.com/lebron-is-not-enough-1795919399

 

(That may be the most amazing single game stat I've ever seen).

Talking about in regard to willingness to play in a system and to be coached and doing what's best for his team given he can't play 48 minutes every night. There is no denying Lebron is an all-time great. 

[Renegade7]

20 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

I have a strong feeling that the Warriors get the sweep tonight.  Then LBJ heads to the west coast to play.

 

Why west?  And have to deal with the Warriors before he even makes it to the Finals?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

Why west?  And have to deal with the Warriors before he even makes it to the Finals?

 

Read an article where they were speculating him wanting to go to the Lakers if they could land Paul George or even the Clippers to play with Paul, etc.  Just rumors/speculation.  Some based on him already owning a house out there too.  

 

I think he is done in Cleveland though.  He went back home, took them to three straight finals and won one against the best regular season team in NBA history.  He can assemble another super team anywhere he wants to (if they have the cap space or can get it).  And as long as the Warriors stay healthy and are the team to beat the next 3-4 years, it really isn't going to matter where he goes, might as well be sunny California. 

[Going Commando]

Where could LeBron go (aside from Golden State) that would give him a better chance to win than Cleveland?  

 

Actually I should rephrase that.  Where could LeBron go other than Golden State that would give him any chance at another ring within the next few years?

 

The answer is nowhere.  There is no combination of cap space and extant players and potential free agent acquisitions out there that can beat Golden State.  Cleveland can't even sign an MLE contract because they're already over the ****ing apron.  Meaning, you can't even suggest something outrageous like "if Cleveland could sign Chris Paul or Blake Griffin for the MLE, then they could hang."

 

It's hopeless.  We are locked into a monopolar NBA until Curry and Durant get old.

 

And they just extended the CBA.  So basically no chance at reform in the next what, 6 years?  LOL.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Where could LeBron go (aside from Golden State) that would give him a better chance to win than Cleveland?  

 

Actually I should rephrase that.  Where could LeBron go other than Golden State that would give him any chance at another ring within the next few years?

 

The answer is nowhere.  There is no combination of cap space and extant players and potential free agent acquisitions out there that can beat Golden State.  Cleveland can't even sign an MLE contract because they're already over the ****ing apron.  Meaning, you can't even suggest something outrageous like "if Cleveland could sign Chris Paul or Blake Griffin for the MLE, then they could hang."

 

It's hopeless.  We are locked into a monopolar NBA until Curry and Durant get old.

 

And they just extended the CBA.  So basically no chance at reform in the next what, 6 years?  LOL.

 

I never said he could beat them or hang with them elsewhere or bringing in more players.  I just think he is leaving Cleveland and going with the rumor/speculation that he might choose LA since he already owns a home there.  If he leaves, he will assemble another super team though, whether it challenges GS or not.  

 

I don't expect him to finish out his career in Cleveland and when they get swept tonight, I think that will be the nail in the coffin for the Kings career there (after next season - when he can opt out), regardless of what happens in 2017-18 season.  So if he leaves, why not sunny California?  

 

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Dont Taze Me Bro