***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[bearrock]

24 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I think his HoF legacy was cemented already.  I never got this notion that his legacy was lacking something.  Was he not one of the greats before today?  His resume was fine as it was, he didnt need to do anything else.

 

 

There were still dummies who said Curry got his rings piggybacking off Durant.  They are wrong, but they existed nonetheless 

[Going Commando]

33 minutes ago, justice98 said:

LeBron is in the same era as Curry and Durant though.  

 

I think his HoF legacy was cemented already.  I never got this notion that his legacy was lacking something.  Was he not one of the greats before today?  His resume was fine as it was, he didnt need to do anything else.

 

Second best player of his era.  I'm saying LeBron = #1 and Curry = #2 and Durant = #3.

 

Curry was already going to go to the Hall, but winning a fourth ring and finally getting a Finals MVP definitely helps him in jockeying for position among the All Time Greats.  Having a transcendent Finals series was one of the few things he hadn't accomplished before, and it's expected for players of his stature.  I'd put the tier of All Timers like this:

 

Tier 1:

Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, LeBron

 

Tier 2:

Bird, Curry, Wilt, Duncan

 

Tier 3:

Kobe, Olajuwon, Shaq, Durant, Mikan

 

This Finals jumped Curry from Tier 3 to 2 for me.  It cements him as the leader of one of the greatest dynasties in league history.  And it also was an accomplishment that no other true PG had achieved in the post-merger era: powering a title run on a one star team.

[Renegade7]

@Going Commando you believe Curry is better then Kobe?  He's also a deadly scorer, has more rings, and arguably a better defender. 

 

You don't see how Kobe got his last ring without Shaq at least similar to Curry getting this ring without Durant?

 

Idk, they should both be in your tier 2, imo, like to hear why he isnt.

[PeterMP]

27 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Second best player of his era.  I'm saying LeBron = #1 and Curry = #2 and Durant = #3.

 

Curry was already going to go to the Hall, but winning a fourth ring and finally getting a Finals MVP definitely helps him in jockeying for position among the All Time Greats.  Having a transcendent Finals series was one of the few things he hadn't accomplished before, and it's expected for players of his stature.  I'd put the tier of All Timers like this:

 

Tier 1:

Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, LeBron

 

Tier 2:

Bird, Curry, Wilt, Duncan

 

Tier 3:

Kobe, Olajuwon, Shaq, Durant, Mikan

 

This Finals jumped Curry from Tier 3 to 2 for me.  It cements him as the leader of one of the greatest dynasties in league history.  And it also was an accomplishment that no other true PG had achieved in the post-merger era: powering a title run on a one star team.

 

I think we need to start talk about Curry as maybe the best guard ever other than Jordan.

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

@Going Commando you believe Curry is better then Kobe?  He's also a deadly scorer, has more rings, and arguably a better defender. 

 

You don't see how Kobe got his last ring without Shaq at least similar to Curry getting this ring without Durant?

 

Idk, they should both be in your tier 2, imo, like to hear why he isnt.

 

Curry has a pair of MVPs, which were seasons where he was unquestionably worthy.  His '15-'16 regular season is one of the best seasons a guard has ever had, and easily better than any season of Kobe's career.  The one MVP Kobe won was a season where LeBron or CP3 should have won the award, and his best individual season came in a year when his team was a seventh seed and lost in the first round of the playoffs.  And those 2009 and 2010 Lakers teams were way better than this Warriors surrounding cast was.  Kobe did not elevate his teams the way Curry has.

 

I would put Curry back in Tier 3 before I would put Kobe in Tier 2.  IMO Kobe doesn't belong in the same tier as Duncan and Bird.  These are the guys who just missed the cut of the GOAT tier conversation and Kobe was not at their level.  I think Curry is.

[PeterMP]

23 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Going Commando you believe Curry is better then Kobe?  He's also a deadly scorer, has more rings, and arguably a better defender. 

 

You don't see how Kobe got his last ring without Shaq at least similar to Curry getting this ring without Durant?

 

Idk, they should both be in your tier 2, imo, like to hear why he isnt.

 

Kobe wasn't really a deadly score.  He was an extremely inefficient scorer and his two biggest scoring years were on teams that lost in the first round.  He couldn't score at an elite level and make people around him better.

 

For Kobe to score a lot, he had to take a lot of shots which then freezes your teammates out of the offense.  Curry scores and because of the way he scores opens up space for his teammates which make them better.  1 on one 1, Kobe dominants Curry.  But anybody actually building a team where there is going to be 3 point line and takes Kobe over Curry is crazy.

Edited June 17, 2022 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

I think we need to start talk about Curry as maybe the best guard ever other than Jordan.

 

I agree.  I honestly can't think of anyone else I would put over him unless Magic gets categorized as a guard.  But I still think of Magic as a forward in the way I think of LeBron as a forward.

 

I used to put Oscar Robertson in like Tier 1 or 2 in these conversations, but not any more.  The biggest impact of Russell Westbrook's career is that he cheapened the signature accomplishment of Robertson's career by demonstrating how inconsequential that kind of stat compiling is to winning.  When you put the triple double average into it's new context, it just makes Oscar look like a better version of Russell Westbrook.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

Kobe wasn't really a deadly score.  He was an extremely inefficient scorer and his two biggest scoring years were on teams that lost in the first round.  He couldn't score at an elite level and make people around him better.

 

Yikes...

 

.447 career fg% isn't as good as Jordan or Curry,  but damn, dude is 4th all time leading scorer and dropped 81 points in the Raptors once upon a time.

 

 

I'm all for the case of saying Curry is better. I'm not a Kobe apologist, but I can't get down with what you said in bold.

[PeterMP]

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Yikes...

 

.447 career fg% isn't as good as Jordan or Curry,  but damn, dude is 4th all time leading scorer and dropped 81 points in the Raptors once upon a time.

 

I'm all for the case of saying Curry is better. I'm not a Kobe apologist, but I can't get down with what you said in bold.

 

Are you arguing that you disagree with a part of a sentence?  There is an and in that sentence, and it isn't a compound sentence.  He couldn't do two things at once well (be an elite scorer and make his teammates better).  For the most part, it was either/or.  There were times through his career he was an elite scorer, but it came at the cost of making his teammates better for the most part.

 

Curry more seamlessly does both at once.

Edited June 17, 2022 by PeterMP

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Are you arguing that you disagree with a part of a sentence?  There is an and in that sentence, and it isn't a compound sentence.  He couldn't do two things at once well (be an elite scorer and make his teammates better).  For the most part, it was either/or.  There were times through his career he was an elite scorer, but it came at the cost of making his teammates better for the most part.

 

Curry more seamlessly does both at once.

 

Got it, yea this is fair and true.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Took Kobe ike 81 shots to do it, too.  I liked him, but I'd rather have Steph if I'm building a team.

 

Anyway: 

 

 

[Going Commando]

There is cosmic justice in Wiggins getting a ring instead of Jimmie Butler.  Being a self aggrandizing toxic jackass Jordan wannabe =/= leadership.  Wiggins won his way by being a good kid and playing unselfish, team first ball.  Basketball's most physically gifted role player.

 

The NBA world is full of distractions and it rewards and incentivizes childish egomaniac behavior from stars.  It's cool to see Curry and the Warriors go back to their roots and be successful taking a different path.

[The Evil Genius]

It wasn't too long ago that Wiggins was thinking about going the Kyrie no vax route this year. Glad whoever convinced him to get the shots did so. 

 

That the Dubs got Wiggins and the pick that turned out to be Wiseman (from Minny) for D'Angelo Russell is almost as bad as that same Twolves team taking Ricky Rubio and Johnny Flynn back to back before Curry in 2009. 😆

Edited June 17, 2022 by The Evil Genius

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

There is cosmic justice in Wiggins getting a ring instead of Jimmie Butler.  Being a self aggrandizing toxic jackass Jordan wannabe =/= leadership.  Wiggins won his way by being a good kid and playing unselfish, team first ball.  Basketball's most physically gifted role player.

 

The NBA world is full of distractions and it rewards and incentivizes childish egomaniac behavior from stars.  It's cool to see Curry and the Warriors go back to their roots and be successful taking a different path.

 

Not sure if it is fair to call Wiggins a role player.  The argument can be made he's the 2nd most rounded player on a championship team.

 

(e.g. Green is a better passer, might be a better defender and maybe in total a better player overall than Wiggins but Green's inability to score is big negative.  Wiggins doesn't have a major area where he's a negative: he can shoot, score, rebound, play defense, he's okay as a ball hander.  Poole is a better scorer, shooter, and ball handler and might be a better over all player but his defense is a big liability.  For both Green and Poole, there are realistically times when they shouldn't be on the court and on other teams they'd even be less playable.  Green would even be a larger negative on a team without really good shooters.  Wiggin doesn't have that problem.  They are more role players than Wiggins.  And then you have the likes of Porter, Payton, and Looney who I think are truly role players.)

 

I think calling Wiggins a glue guy is a better description.  

 

(I'd love to hear Wiggins sometime honestly discuss the difference in coaching in GS compared to his experiences in MN.  Maybe he has just matured but looking at how he was used in MN I think his lack of "development" there was heavily related to coaching.)

Edited June 17, 2022 by PeterMP

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Took Kobe ike 81 shots to do it, too.  I liked him, but I'd rather have Steph if I'm building a team.

 

 

While I agree I'd rather have Steph, I posted the chart of that game for a reason.  He shot 61% from the field and 54% from 3 in that 81 point game, hardly what I'd call "inefficient".

 

Peter's point was he never figured out how to be an elite scorer and make his team better at same time is true. I wouldn't allow anyone to counter with he was a SG and Curry is a PG, either.

 

A lot of fair points here, I liked him, too, maybe there's some bias left over from way he died, but I too remember him playing and that 81 point, so I get where yall coming from.

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

While I agree I'd rather have Steph, I posted the chart of that game for a reason.  He shot 61% from the field and 54% from 3 in that 81 point game, hardly what I'd call "inefficient".

 

Peter's point was he never figured out how to be an elite scorer and make his team better at same time is true. I wouldn't allow anyone to counter with he was a SG and Curry is a PG, either.

 

A lot of fair points here, I liked him, too, maybe there's some bias left over from way he died, but I too remember him playing and that 81 point, so I get where yall coming from.

 

You're right, he did shoot better in that game than I remember.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

curry is 22-4 in playoff series in his career. He’s never been swept or lost in 5. 
 

1 loss was 3-1 comeback from Lebron. Another was the loss to Toronto where they lost Durant and Klay. 
 

that’s pretty impressive 

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Tatum is still three or four years away from hitting his prime.  This was a key learning experience for him--experience that his peers like Luka and Morant haven't gotten yet.  There is going to be a point where those three guys are the best players in the league, and he will have an advantage over them.

I don’t see Tatum being better than Luka ever. 

Chris’s Chiozza is ass. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

 

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

6 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

Supermax??  Hell no. That's insane. The supermax should be reserved for the best of the best.  All-NBA first or second team, MVP caliber players.  You started handing it out to guys like Wiggins, you start thinking of how you can get out of the deal. Is he a #1 alpha on a contender?  A guy you build a team around? 

 

You are right. Max yes no supermax. If the warriors didn’t have Wiggins I don’t think we win. It’s hard to quantify how much they should be paid. 
 

if You give Wiggins the max and he on the kings. That’s a bad contract but because he was with the warriors the max is pretty fair because he is a key piece in this run. 

[The Evil Genius]

Dray...🤣

 

[Destino]

All you need to know about Kobe’s efficiency as a scorer is the definition of “The Kobe assist”.  If you don’t know, it’s a missed shot.  Basketball writers crawled so for up Kobe’s butt that they convinced themselves that Kobe missing shots, was still a positive for the Lakers.  I guess giving credit to the guys fighting for offensive rebounds wasn’t as fun as drooling over a superstar.  
 

The other thing people sleep on with Kobe is that he couldn't coexist with another star and was known for being a lunatic.  He ran Shaq out of town when they were dominating the league.  He’s the last player you’d want to build a super team around.  
 

all that being said, he was an excellent defender and two way stars are relatively rare.  He was an all time great.

[No Nonsense]

2 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Dray...🤣

 

He’s the GS “Marlon” of the Jackson 5. He thinks everybody came to see him and will get into the hall of fame (over more deserving players), just because he had a great lead singer

[The Evil Genius]

Dray is the heart of that team though. Outsiders would never understand or accept that, but he's a key cog to them winning and he does things that stats will never fully measure. 

 

Also..his Twitter game has been savage today. 

 

 

[Hersh]

I would love a Draymond type on the Wiz. I mean, I don't love all the antics and he definitely deserves more Ts but I'll take him on my team all day. Dude understands his role which is bring energy, defense, rebound, help push the pace, assists and **** with the other team.