Destino Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 17 minutes ago, abdcskins said: You would think two phenomenal players like Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant would be more interested in putting aside their egos and trying to make things work. Do they want to win a championship or not? Because if they truly focused and worked hard they could have a shot. Bunch of primma donna millionaires. By the way, watching these dudes on ESPN speculating on trades is hilarious. Guaranteed none of them happen. Paul George for Kevin Durant? Not a chance. Windhorst just suggested that maybe KD and Irving could go to the Lakers together. That’s peak Windhorst. Suggesting any and every available star could, and should, team up with Lebron is what that man built his entire brand around. It’s only gotten worse since he went to LA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Knicks are somehow worse than the Wiz. It’s amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Kevin Durant is turning 34 in September. What exactly is he worth? I don't think he can win you a title on his own, he has shown that throughout his career. If I am an owner I am staying away from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I like what Milwaukee is doing. Especially if they land McGee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 OMG, y'all shoulda heard the radio guys on the way home today..."Sell everybody! He's what Trae Young needs!!! That would be great!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Destino said: That’s peak Windhorst. Suggesting any and every available star could, and should, team up with Lebron is what that man built his entire brand around. It’s only gotten worse since he went to LA. true but he’s been pretty on the money with nets reporting the last 6 months or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Going Commando said: It occurred to me during this Shaq debate that there is a reason he feels underrated today. Ditto for Moses Malone. You need to be a beloved figure for a fan base and for them to go to bat for you in the All Time debates and keep your Q rating high. You need to keep getting invited back to the Arena and be a beloved figure in the broadcast booth and have your career symbolized by a jersey in the rafters. Curry is going to get a massive legacy bump for what he's accomplished to the point where in like five years, it's going to be considered ridiculous that Harden and Westbrook and Kawhi were ever considered his peers. Moses Malone wasn't great for long enough. He had a long career and racked up some impressive totals, but he wasn't really great for very long. Shaq has a similar but not as pronounced issue. Moses Malone lead the league in PER twice, total WS twice, in WS/48 once all in a 2 year period. Moses is literally the best player in the game for a season or 2. Shaq leads the league in PER 5 times (all in a row) and total WS and WS/48 2 times all with in that same 5 year window. Really, there's 4 years or so where he is the best player in the league. Kareem lead the league in PER 9 times, WS/48 9 times too. That covers like an 11 year span. Kareem first leads the league in PER in 1970 and does it the last time in 1980. Chamberlain lead the league in PER 8 times and WS/48 8 times, and total WS 8 times. Chamberlain leads the league in PER in 1959 and the last time in 1967. He just doesn't belong with those guys if you are thinking about a career. I think Kawhi goes down as a guy that's a what if. What if he could have stayed healthy. He's now lost 3 or 4 years out of his prime. To be great in the NBA, you have to win championships. Of that group, only Leonard had done it, and he's missed several opportunities with injuries. The more interesting comparison is really Paul. By any statistical measure, Paul is a much better player than Curry. But because of the championships (not from playing in one city), Curry is going to go down as the better player. Edited July 1, 2022 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Going Commando said: Honestly, it makes his game look like a gimmick and it tarnished his legacy. He needs a big bounce back season next year to change the way he's going to be remembered. He needs things to end well in Philadelphia. One thing this generation of superstars will find out is that, unless they are of the stature of LeBron, they're going to be hurt by all of the team hopping they did. It occurred to me during this Shaq debate that there is a reason he feels underrated today. Ditto for Moses Malone. You need to be a beloved figure for a fan base and for them to go to bat for you in the All Time debates and keep your Q rating high. You need to keep getting invited back to the Arena and be a beloved figure in the broadcast booth and have your career symbolized by a jersey in the rafters. Curry is going to get a massive legacy bump for what he's accomplished to the point where in like five years, it's going to be considered ridiculous that Harden and Westbrook and Kawhi were ever considered his peers. Aka Laker fans thinking Kobe is the goat or top 5. Kobe has no argument over LeBron but Laker fans will never concede LeBron> Kobe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, PeterMP said: Moses Malone wasn't great for long enough. He had a long career and racked up some impressive totals, but he wasn't really great for very long. Shaq has a similar but not as pronounced issue. Moses Malone lead the league in PER twice, total WS twice, in WS/48 once all in a 2 year period. Moses is literally the best player in the game for a season or 2. Shaq leads the league in PER 5 times (all in a row) and total WS and WS/48 2 times all with in that same 5 year window. Really, there's 4 years or so where he is the best player in the league. Kareem lead the league in PER 9 times, WS/48 9 times too. That covers like an 11 year span. Kareem first leads the league in PER in 1970 and does it the last time in 1980. Chamberlain lead the league in PER 8 times and WS/48 8 times, and total WS 8 times. Chamberlain leads the league in PER in 1959 and the last time in 1967. He just doesn't belong with those guys if you are thinking about a career. I think Kawhi goes down as a guy that's a what if. What if he could have stayed healthy. He's now lost 3 or 4 years out of his prime. To be great in the NBA, you have to win championships. Of that group, only Leonard had done it, and he's missed several opportunities with injuries. The more interesting comparison is really Paul. By any statistical measure, Paul is a much better player than Curry. But because of the championships (not from playing in one city), Curry is going to go down as the better player. Pull them receipts bruh cause off the top of my head I want to say that’s ridiculous. Curry at his peak > Paul. Unanimous MVP. Reached a height Paul hasn’t come close to achieving. You can call this selection bias, but Curry’s peak is not coincidently concurrent with Kerr’s hire but due in a large part to Kerr’s hiring. I don’t think concurrent is the right word but I tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: Pull them receipts bruh cause off the top of my head I want to say that’s ridiculous. Curry at his peak > Paul. Unanimous MVP. Reached a height Paul hasn’t come close to achieving. I was talking about for a career. I'd say Curry's 2015 was better than Paul's best year. But not by much. In New Orleans, Paul put up a year that was 30 PER, 0.292 WS/48, and 18.3 total WS. Curry was 31.5, 0.318, and 17.9. And that's not even the year Paul lead the league in WS and WS/48. They both have one year where the lead the league in WS and WS/48. (I'd also tell you the advanced stats don't take into account defense very well, especially by guards, and in his prime Paul was a much better defender than Curry. It would at least be arguable.) Edited July 1, 2022 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Even by their careers Paul isn’t a much better player. i need to get on my computer to be really through. curry career 24.5 6.5 4.5 paul career 18.1 9.5 4.5 I’ll take Curry’s career averages. And Curry was a late bloomer. I don’t think their stats are close at all. The gap between Curry and Paul scoring is greater than the gap between their playmaking and scoring is the premium and always has been. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Per is such a flawed stat but a difference of 1.5 is huge. The difference between top PER of all time 32.8 and Curry’s ranking that season 31.5 (11th) is 1.3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: Even by their careers Paul isn’t a much better player. i need to get on my computer to be really through. curry career 24.5 6.5 4.5 paul career 18.1 9.5 4.5 I’ll take Curry’s career averages. And Curry was a late bloomer. I don’t think their stats are close at all. The gap between Curry and Paul scoring is greater than the gap between their playmaking and scoring is the premium and always has been. For their careers: Paul is 12th in PER. Curry is 20th. Paul is 9th in WS. Curry is 50th. Paul is 5th in WS/48. Curry is 23rd. Paul is 6th in box score +/-. Curry is 12th. Paul is the better player based on any of those stats. There's no reason to generally believe that scoring is at a premium. If I get a steal, ignite a fast break, and somebody else gets a layup their play is not at a premium compared to mine. If I break down my defender, get by them, draw another defender, and make a nice pass to another player for a layup, their play is not a premium compared to mine. If the other teams best perimeter defender defends me and I defend the other teams best perimeter scorer and my back court teammate scores more points than me, their play doesn't necessarily have more value than mine. Which is what Paul did in his prime. Now, I do think Curry's scoring is especially valuable. The difference in PER isn't so great that Paul doesn't have a better total WS. Curry's claim is the championships. Which I think is a good argument. Edited July 1, 2022 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 The fact that Chris Paul is 9th in career WS should show how flawed the metric is in comparing individual players. No one in their right mind should think Chris Paul is a better player than Shaq (13), Magic (24), Bird (29). And Parish being ahead of Bird doesn't make him more valuable either. Top 100 WS includes Buck Williams, Horace Grant, Terry Porter, Elton Brand, Detlef Schrempf, Otis Thorpe, Tyson Chandler, Jason Terry, Andre Miller, Eddie Jones, Paul Millsap, DeAndre Jordan (101). When these players can even come close to being considered one of the top 100 players in NBA history, we can talk about the value of WS. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Chris Paul in a nutshell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, bearrock said: The fact that Chris Paul is 9th in career WS should show how flawed the metric is in comparing individual players. No one in their right mind should think Chris Paul is a better player than Shaq (13), Magic (24), Bird (29). And Parish being ahead of Bird doesn't make him more valuable either. Top 100 WS includes Buck Williams, Horace Grant, Terry Porter, Elton Brand, Detlef Schrempf, Otis Thorpe, Tyson Chandler, Jason Terry, Andre Miller, Eddie Jones, Paul Millsap, DeAndre Jordan (101). When these players can even come close to being considered one of the top 100 players in NBA history, we can talk about the value of WS. It isn't flawed. It is a cumulative stat that takes into account how much you played. Parrish is ahead of Bird because he played in nearly twice as many games and nearly 1/3 more minutes. I wouldn't argue it is the best measure of who is best but playing is an important part of being good. If you want to look at people that had higher peaks but shorter careers, WS/48 and box score +/- would be for you. Bird is 7th in +/- and Parish is 167th. There isn't going to be one stat that can capture the best basketball player. And Paul still out ranks Curry. Edited July 1, 2022 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 41 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Chris Paul in a nutshell. I never blame a player for flopping, I blame the refs for calling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: I don’t think concurrent is the right word but I tired. The word you’re looking for is coincided But concurrent also works 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Just now, justice98 said: I never blame a player for flopping, I blame the refs for calling it. Somewhat disagree. It's tough to tell in live time at court level, like officials are, and you got a bunch of players to be watching. I hate flopping and the entire mentality around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, PeterMP said: And Paul still out ranks Curry If I was building a team I’d pick curry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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