***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Going Commando]

My responses to some of Peter's points:

 

On Doncic: a couple years ago I would have been right there with you on thinking Doncic was overrated because he doesn't have a great first step or vertical.  But then James Harden got way better than I expected.  Doncic has James Harden level strength and ball handling skill and offensive creativity.  He's got an unreal below the rim game and unreal court vision and IQ.  The game his changed and Curry and Harden proved sublime athleticism isn't the only path to dominance.  He's the next great Euro and has transcendent potential.

 

On Kristaps: I don't know how you can think he's overrated and not a franchise player.  He is literally the only player with his particular skill set in the entire league:

 

- 7 footer

- Shot blocker

- Great three ball

- Above the rim finisher

- Volume scoring mid range game

 

Durant is the only other player like that and he's not in Kristaps's league as a rim protector.  Kristaps is a true unicorn and the only thing that could hold that guy back is injury.

 

One of the things you're underestimating about Kristaps is that he's the perfect big to play with if you're a ball dominant guard or small forward.  You can literally run any kind of perimeter-centric offense and have Kristaps be an elite option in it.  He's the perfect guy to pair with almost any other star.

 

On Drummond: IMO Drummond is the perfect modern center.  He may have had attitude issues in the past, but his skill set is perfect.  He is a force of nature on the boards, he is a terrifying inside finisher, he can pass, and when he's dialed in his rim protection is outstanding.  The problem is his guards and wings are trash.  If that kid was playing in DC with Wall and Beal he could be the most dominant player on a Finals team.

 

On Blake Griffin: Looks like he got hurt and missed the final stretch of the season.  Maybe he'll never really be healthy again, but if he gets healthy, it's too soon to write him off.  He is way more skilled than people are giving him credit for being.  He can remain excellent despite declining athleticism because of his skills and basketball IQ.  But he does need to stay healthy.

 

On Jimmy Butler: You're underestimating him.  Butler is a really talented scorer.  He's a grinder, I think he'd fit in super well in Miami's system and culture.  They've become the quintessential grinding team.  And they need perimeter scoring and ball handling.  The only thing is Bam Adebayo looks like the next Clint Capela and it would be a shame to see them have to give him up to get Butler.  But that's also probably what they'll have to do in order to get Minnesota to bite.  Still, a Miami team with Jimmy Butler as the lead dog is a bit scary.  Butler is still in his prime and he could carry that team to a mid seed.  I'd like them over Indy for sure.  And I could see a team like Philly having a really hard time with them in the postseason because of how they can make you pay for mistakes and limitations.

 

On Toronto: you're sleeping on these guys.  If Kawhi is healthy, they got significantly better.  Kawhi was probably faking his injury last year, he went doctor shopping until he finally found one that gave him the cover he needed to sit out the season.  So he's probably healthy.  DeRozan was a nice scorer and a great teammate but Kawhi is way better than him at almost everything.  Their young players are coming into their own, they're deep, they improved their top end talent significantly, and they were the one seed last year.  I think they are definitely better than Philly.  This is their year to try and win the East and go after Golden State.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

He's going to sign a DPVE next summer.  And people will whine about him throwing his career away and not entertaining them in the offseason by joining the Lakers.

 

I'll be one of those people. I don't care who he goes to as long as it's a contender. Nobody wants to watch his talent wasted for the New Orleans Pelicans that will never sniff an NBA title. It hurt to even type that ridiculous team name. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

More preseason predictions for you knuckleheads:

 

MVP: Kawhi Leonard

DPOY: Anthony Davis (consolation for not giving him the MVP)

ROY: Doncic (although I think Ayton is going to have a phenomenal runner up season averaging 20 & 10)

COY: Brad Stevens (could see Quin Snyder winning it too)

MIP: Karl Anthony Towns

6MOY: Isaiah Thomas

 

First team All NBA:

Westbrook, Harden, Leonard, Giannis, Davis

 

Second team All NBA:

Curry, Wall, Durant, LeBron, Towns

 

Third team All NBA:

Irving, Lillard, George, Butler, Embiid

[PeterMP]

21 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

My responses to some of Peter's points:

 

On Doncic: a couple years ago I would have been right there with you on thinking Doncic was overrated because he doesn't have a great first step or vertical.  But then James Harden got way better than I expected.  Doncic has James Harden level strength and ball handling skill and offensive creativity.  He's got an unreal below the rim game and unreal court vision and IQ.  The game his changed and Curry and Harden proved sublime athleticism isn't the only path to dominance.  He's the next great Euro and has transcendent potential.

 

On Kristaps: I don't know how you can think he's overrated and not a franchise player.  He is literally the only player with his particular skill set in the entire league:

 

- 7 footer

- Shot blocker

- Great three ball

- Above the rim finisher

- Volume scoring mid range game

 

Durant is the only other player like that and he's not in Kristaps's league as a rim protector.  Kristaps is a true unicorn and the only thing that could hold that guy back is injury.

 

One of the things you're underestimating about Kristaps is that he's the perfect big to play with if you're a ball dominant guard or small forward.  You can literally run any kind of perimeter-centric offense and have Kristaps be an elite option in it.  He's the perfect guy to pair with almost any other star.

 

On Drummond: IMO Drummond is the perfect modern center.  He may have had attitude issues in the past, but his skill set is perfect.  He is a force of nature on the boards, he is a terrifying inside finisher, he can pass, and when he's dialed in his rim protection is outstanding.  The problem is his guards and wings are trash.  If that kid was playing in DC with Wall and Beal he could be the most dominant player on a Finals team.

 

On Blake Griffin: Looks like he got hurt and missed the final stretch of the season.  Maybe he'll never really be healthy again, but if he gets healthy, it's too soon to write him off.  He is way more skilled than people are giving him credit for being.  He can remain excellent despite declining athleticism because of his skills and basketball IQ.  But he does need to stay healthy.

 

On Jimmy Butler: You're underestimating him.  Butler is a really talented scorer.  He's a grinder, I think he'd fit in super well in Miami's system and culture.  They've become the quintessential grinding team.  And they need perimeter scoring and ball handling.  The only thing is Bam Adebayo looks like the next Clint Capela and it would be a shame to see them have to give him up to get Butler.  But that's also probably what they'll have to do in order to get Minnesota to bite.  Still, a Miami team with Jimmy Butler as the lead dog is a bit scary.  Butler is still in his prime and he could carry that team to a mid seed.  I'd like them over Indy for sure.  And I could see a team like Philly having a really hard time with them in the postseason because of how they can make you pay for mistakes and limitations.

 

On Toronto: you're sleeping on these guys.  If Kawhi is healthy, they got significantly better.  Kawhi was probably faking his injury last year, he went doctor shopping until he finally found one that gave him the cover he needed to sit out the season.  So he's probably healthy.  DeRozan was a nice scorer and a great teammate but Kawhi is way better than him at almost everything.  Their young players are coming into their own, they're deep, they improved their top end talent significantly, and they were the one seed last year.  I think they are definitely better than Philly.  This is their year to try and win the East and go after Golden State.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your initial post too much on Doncic.  I could see him as ROTY, but some GMs are saying is the best international player in the NBA NOW. 

 

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2018/10/3/17932602/at-least-two-gms-think-luka-doncic-is-already-the-best-international-player-in-the-nba-nba-gm-survey

 

That doesn't just make ROTY.  That makes him an MVP candidate.  There are a lot of guys that are skilled with ball and getting shots off that aren't as good Harden or Curry.  What makes them great is the ability to get off a good shot quickly from distance or without much space.  I could see Doncic's ceiling being Dragic or Rubio, which makes him a good NBA player, but not as good as some people are talking him up.

 

Kristapis seems to have skills, but that doesn't seem to match his production.  There's no way I'd take him over Durant even if he's injury free, and I'd take AD, Embiid, and KAT before him too.  And maybe Jokic.

 

Obviously, if the Knicks get Durant or manage to draft a future MVP (like GS did with Curry where nobody that he'd be a future MVP) that changes things.  But right now, my prediction would be the Knicks make the playoffs a couple of years with Kristapis at best as like a 4th seed, but never really do anything.

 

Drummond can't defend in space or the pick and roll.  You can't switch with him, he can't defend stretch 5s, and doesn't create space on offense.

 

I'm not saying that Griffin is done as a good NBA player (though he might be).  I could see him making more all star games, but he's clearly done as a max player that you can be an important part of a championship contender.

 

Butler is an okay scorer, but he's not particularly efficient at it, and he's not really a good passer. What made Miami good last year was the picks, movement and passing.  He's too much of a ball stopper to fit in with that.  What made Butler special IMO was his defense, but I haven't seen much really good defense from him in the last 2 years.

 

Toronto could be good, but I don't think Kawai's objective was to end up in Toronto.  I could see him sulking, especially if the teammates are unhappy with the general shake up (the trade and the firing Casey), and they don't really embrace him.  It could go either way IMO.  I think the start of the season is going to be really important to them.

Edited October 5, 2018 by PeterMP

[Mr. Sinister]

On paper, everyone is sleeping o  Toronto (and they are indeed my NBA Finals darkhorse), but its always difficult trying to figure out teams that seem to blow like the wind, especially when adding a strange cat like Leonard. Stranger Things have happened though.

 

 

I'm also expecting Utah to be dangerous this year, like possible WCF sacrificial lamb to GS dangerous

[TradeTheBeal!]

Melo currently 7-13 from 3 in the preseason.

 

Prepare yourselves.

[Going Commando]

Kyrie Irving says he's staying in Boston.  That's huge because now they don't have to worry about trying to trade him before the deadline.  As far as I know, Boston can offer him a five year deal.  I assume he'll sign at least a 3+1.

 

Now the interesting question for them this summer is will Horford opt in?  He's an important player for them but if he opts out and wants to sign a longer term deal, they probably need to let him walk.  My gut is that he'd opt in because 30 million is a huge year of salary and I highly doubt he can command another max deal.

 

They're not going to be able to sign another big fish but if they can get Irving on a 3 or 4 year deal and have Horford walk in 2020, they should be able to keep Brown, Tatum, and Rozier when they come up on second contracts.

[StillUnknown]

Boston has to be thinking about putting together a package for AD right?

 

you hoard the assets to use them on a guy like AD

[Going Commando]

38 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

Boston has to be thinking about putting together a package for AD right?

  

you hoard the assets to use them on a guy like AD 

 

They tried to trade for Kawhi over the summer but it was apparently a weak offer.

 

The problem with trying to trade for Davis is New Orleans has to be open to it.  Is there even a possible trade that anyone can make that would make New Orleans say it was too good an offer to refuse?

[ixcuincle]

6 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

On paper, everyone is sleeping o  Toronto (and they are indeed my NBA Finals darkhorse), but its always difficult trying to figure out teams that seem to blow like the wind, especially when adding a strange cat like Leonard. Stranger Things have happened though.

 

 

I'm also expecting Utah to be dangerous this year, like possible WCF sacrificial lamb to GS dangerous

 

They should sleep on Toronto, they are basically two players (Leonard and Lowry) 

 

Boston again is going to dominate that conference. And we all know who comes out of the West. 

 

 

[Mr. Sinister]

23 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

And we all know who comes out of the West. 

 

 

 

Yo mama

[StillUnknown]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

They tried to trade for Kawhi over the summer but it was apparently a weak offer.

 

The problem with trying to trade for Davis is New Orleans has to be open to it.  Is there even a possible trade that anyone can make that would make New Orleans say it was too good an offer to refuse?

 

New orleans needs to be smart. There is very little chance he stays, at least they can get some real quality back from boston

[Going Commando]

37 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

New orleans needs to be smart. There is very little chance he stays, at least they can get some real quality back from boston 

 

They've got the DPVE to offer.  If he turns that down, then maybe you start exploring trade options.  But he's got three seasons left on his current contract.

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Yo mama

Yo mama so fat, Thanos had to snap twice.

 

Hot Take: LeBron never gets another ring.  I can't See him a coach, hes prove a terrible gm in Cleveland, and even if he bought the team, only reason anyone signed there was to play with him.  That look on his face after JR ran out to the three point line will be the rest of his career.

 

Utah and Wizards gonna shock some people.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Renegade7

[Destino]

I don't see Lebron as a GM and certainly not as a coach.  That somehow seems like a step back for him.  If he manages to really blow up financially I think he would be interested in owning a team, like Mike.  I don't think he has the net worth for that kind of move yet though.  NBA teams are toys for billionaires now, and Lebron's not that big.  Yet.  

 

I think he is going to try to win more rings because he's kind of obsessed with legacy, and right now his not as secure as it appears.  We all know how great he is because we've watched him play his entire career and make no mistake, he's flat out great.  20 years from now though, the numbers start to overshadow memory of his actual play. 

 

He's a three ring player between Kobe's 5 and the Warriors, which are likely to win at least one more (so, 4 or more).  The only team he's beaten in the finals that hasn't come back and stomped his ass is OKC.  He beat the Spurs in 7, but then got obliterated by that same Spurs team in 5.  He beat the Warriors in 7, after previously having lost to them, and then got destroyed in 5 and then swept.  The championship numbers don't make him look nearly as dominant as he has been.  

 

If he ends his career winning more rings than the Warriors dynasty though, or at least the same number... that changes everything.  I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Lakers look like an entirely different monster next season.  So long as he continues to defy the time and play like a superhero, I don't think it's out of the question that Durant joins him in LA. 

 

 

 

[ixcuincle]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Yo mama so fat, Thanos had to snap twice.

 

Hot Take: LeBron never gets another ring.  I can't See him a coach, hes prove a terrible gm in Cleveland, and even if he bought the team, only reason anyone signed there was to play with him.  That look on his face after JR ran out to the three point line will be the rest of his career.

 

Utah and Wizards gonna shock some people.

 

I keep hearing Wizards but how an old washed up Dwight Howard and Jeff Green and Austin Rivers gonna help? Wall and Beal can't carry the Wizards to 50+ wins by themselves. 

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Destino said:

I don't think it's out of the question that Durant joins him in LA.  

 

It's not out of the question but it's not likely.  LeBron and Durant are getting to the point where they might have the most minutes played in the NBA.  They're going to be looking to younger, fresher stars to team up with.

 

Why are we dismissing the Durant to NY rumors out of hand?  If LeBron to LA happened then Durant to NY can happen.  And if I'm Durant, Kristaps is far more appealing as a partner than Brandon Ingram.

[StillUnknown]

8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's not out of the question but it's not likely.  LeBron and Durant are getting to the point where they might have the most minutes played in the NBA.  They're going to be looking to younger, fresher stars to team up with.

 

Why are we dismissing the Durant to NY rumors out of hand?  If LeBron to LA happened then Durant to NY can happen.  And if I'm Durant, Kristaps is far more appealing as a partner than Brandon Ingram.

 

I sincerely hope they let Kristaps take as much time as necessary to recover. Torn ACL's are not the death sentence they used to be, but its kind of unknown territory when it happens to an athletic 7'3 human

[Warhead36]

My hot take: Lebron no longer really cares all that much about winning. He went to LA for his family, so his kids could attend top flight LA prep schools, and for his own personal out of basketball brand(he has said he wants to get into producing and filmmaking more than he already has).

 

That's not to say he won't try hard to win, of course he will, but at this stage in his life/career he's more about setting up his legacy for after basketball.

[Renegade7]

11 hours ago, ixcuincle said:

 

I keep hearing Wizards but how an old washed up Dwight Howard and Jeff Green and Austin Rivers gonna help? Wall and Beal can't carry the Wizards to 50+ wins by themselves. 

If he averages a double double, we'll be fine.  Our center play has been so above average the last few years that average to above average paint presence alone changes our seeding.  Howard doesn't have to be an all-star, he needs to catch that ball and dink, something Gortat was allergic to.  Wall will average double digit assist easily just from that given how many bunnies our centers have missed over the years 

[KDawg]

On 10/5/2018 at 12:14 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

Kyrie Irving says he's staying in Boston.  That's huge because now they don't have to worry about trying to trade him before the deadline.  As far as I know, Boston can offer him a five year deal.  I assume he'll sign at least a 3+1.

 

Now the interesting question for them this summer is will Horford opt in?  He's an important player for them but if he opts out and wants to sign a longer term deal, they probably need to let him walk.  My gut is that he'd opt in because 30 million is a huge year of salary and I highly doubt he can command another max deal.

 

They're not going to be able to sign another big fish but if they can get Irving on a 3 or 4 year deal and have Horford walk in 2020, they should be able to keep Brown, Tatum, and Rozier when they come up on second contracts.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see some of those guys take more team friendly deals similar to the way Golden State is structured. Boston still has a ton of assets, too.  In Ainge I trust.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

kerr got ejected. 

[StillUnknown]

6 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

kerr got ejected. 

 

 

 

[StillUnknown]

 

If they dont trade him, Minnesota is a top 5 league pass team

 

He gonna swing on them boys before long

[justice98]

So Miami wants to trade for him thinking he wont return on them too?  lol  He leaves every team in bad terms.