DM72 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Wade is the only reason Miami has its NBA titles. Ray Allen; "I guess that three I made against San Antonio didn't mean squat." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 There is a difference between putting up great individual numbers on a dumpster fire team and being ready to lead a winner. If KAT were already there, Minnesota would have won more than 29 games last year. It's going to take him 2 or 3 years to figure out how to play and lead winning team basketball, and then several seasons after that to learn how to be a champion. He's seven years younger than Westbrook. That is too big a difference to be a real partner to him. Westbrook would be interesting on the Knicks, and if I were OKC, I would take a package built around Porzingis for him. But I don't see that happening. I also don't see that deal working out best for Westbrook long term, such that I don't know if he would sign an extension. Melo has started his decline and his descent in the past two years has been steep. If you add Westbrook to that Minnesota team, I guarantee they'll be close to or OVER +20 in the win category. You can make a strong argument that KAT will be a generational talent. His versatility at 19/20 was far better than some future HOFers who are still in the league right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 If Bosh doesn't play this year Miami has space to sign 2 max guys next year. (Some cap relief clause for injury) Whiteside, Westbrook, Serge, Winslow wouldn't be terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Ray Allen; "I guess that three I made against San Antonio didn't mean squat." I think you're misinterpreting what he's trying to say. 2006 title, was pretty much all Wade. He was on another level. For the Big 3 that formed, without having Wade establishing himself in Miami, that squad never happens. I don't think BRS is suggesting that Wade was THE core piece to all their titles...I think. LOL. *edit* Miami did Wade wrong here... He's left a lot of $ on the table year after year to help the team. When it came time for him to get possibly one last pay day, Miami didn't show him any respect. He deserved better. You think of the Heat, Wade is the first person who should come to mind. It's really sad how everything unfolded. Edited July 7, 2016 by RonArtest15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Ray Allen; "I guess that three I made against San Antonio didn't mean squat." In an alternate universe where Wade never wins a title, creates a championship pedigree, and recruits Bosh and the SF guy to come and learn what it takes to be at the level he was already at, that shot does not exist... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 awesome. he was underpaid and wanted to be paid what he was owed and the Heat showed no loyalty. This is why Kobe was right to take his money. Kobe got his money, and spent years chucking up shots he couldn't make while the coach and the GM did their best to smile through it. Hard to develop young players when you've got Kobe playing some of the worst basketball in the league and getting pats on the back. What exactly did that Laker loyalty get them? Free agents running to the lakers eager to join such a classy franchise? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I think you're misinterpreting what he's trying to say. 2006 title, was pretty much all Wade. He was on another level. For the Big 3 that formed, without having Wade establishing himself in Miami, that squad never happens. I don't think BRS is suggesting that Wade was THE core piece to all their titles...I think. LOL. im not saying he was the core. Just that he was the reason the events that formed happened. Its not that complicated, but some people need everything explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 im not saying he was the core. Just that he was the reason the events that formed happened. Its not that complicated, but some people need everything explained. That's what I figured... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Kobe got his money, and spent years terrifying team mates while chucking up shots he couldn't make while the coach and the GM did their best to smile through it. Hard to develop young players when you've got Kobe playing some of the worst basketball in the league and getting pats on the back. Also where did that Laker loyalty get them? Free agents running to the lakers eager to join such a classy franchise? No. The Lakers issue, as well as Dirk with the Mavericks, and now Wade in Miami is not because of the player taking money or leaving it on the table. Its because of front offices not doing their part. Kobe got blamed for the Lakers sucking and not attracting players even though the players said that was not an issue. The issue is that the Buss family have not done a good job building that team aroudn Kobe. Dirk left a lot of money on the table himself the last 3 years and the Mavericks have not gotten out of the first round when they made the playoffs and have not attracted any high quality free agents. Wade left money and it worked to bring Lebron, but that hid the fact that the Heat drafted poorly for a decade. WHen Lebron left, that squad was not a factor in the East. You could blame Bosh's clot issues but the Dragic trade didnt help. Edited July 7, 2016 by BenningRoadSkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 Kobe got his money, and spent years chucking up shots he couldn't make while the coach and the GM did their best to smile through it. Hard to develop young players when you've got Kobe playing some of the worst basketball in the league and getting pats on the back. What exactly did that Laker loyalty get them? Free agents running to the lakers eager to join such a classy franchise? No. BIG difference between how Kobe is/was treated and what just happened to Wade. Pat Riley essentially cut off communication. Not saying that Wade deserved every penny, but there seemed to be a complete lack of respect for all he's done and meant to the franchise over the years. Him on the Bulls just isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Starting to experience a little 2013-2014 vibe in here. Getting the feeling that this whole Dwayne Wade ordeal is somehow Mike Shanahan's fault. Edited July 7, 2016 by Sacks 'n' Stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 aka the David Lee rule. or the Rashard Lewis rule. or the Andrea Bargnani rule. I'm pretty sure KAT is the real deal, however KAT is in a different league than those guys. I would compare his situation more to Anthony Davis's first few years. He can come in and he's such a better athlete than almost everyone else that he is just killing it and putting up awesome numbers. The talent is obvious, and you can see what's coming when he hits his prime. But he's still years away from actually knowing how to win. The NBA is weird in that it is a maddeningly long roller coaster ride waiting for star players to finally reach their prime. And then when they do, it's usually only like a frickin four year window. And now half the time the guys are bolting for greener pastures right as they peak so they can team up with their peers. It's a horrible model for the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Well Shanahan and Riles aren't all that different personality wise. Riles ****ed up badly, but I dunno if I'd call him a snake. That and Shanahan weeps at his record as a coach and gm, with several teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I hear you. All you guys need to say is that you like Dwayne Wade a lot. I don't particularly like Dwayne Wade, actually. He's a dirty player. Doesn't mean that I have to choose Mickey Arinson over him on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 The Lakers issue, as well as Dirk with the Mavericks, and now Wade in Miami is not because of the player taking money or leaving it on the table. Its because of front offices not doing their part. Kobe got blamed for the Lakers sucking and not attracting players even though the players said that was not an issue. The issue is that the Buss family have not done a good job building that team aroudn Kobe. I agree that those front offices largely failed recently. None of that however makes Kobe's final deal any better. It was a bad deal made by a bad front office. I do have to disagree with the notion that the lakers failed to build around Kobe they got five championships during his career. The Kobe of the last three years wasn't good enough to build around. He wasn't good enough to credibly start for a contender level NBA team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 BIG difference between how Kobe is/was treated and what just happened to Wade. Pat Riley essentially cut off communication. Not saying that Wade deserved every penny, but there seemed to be a complete lack of respect for all he's done and meant to the franchise over the years. Him on the Bulls just isn't right. I agree, Wade can still play. I was talking about Kobe and his horrible final contract exclusively. I don't really see that as a good comparison with the Wade situation. I do wonder however if the Heat foresee a rebuild as necessary and a three year deal as an obstacle. They offered Wade a shorter deal out of respect, but they probably wanted him to turn it down. Bosh may never play again, or beyond this next season. The Heat must be thinking the Wade era is over and it's time to grab hold of a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Why are you all acting like Wade is some kind of martyr here? In what way did Miami wrong him? Also how much money do you all think he actually gave up? Because the deal he signed in 2010 was a near max deal with an ETO and it was almost the same as the deals LeBron and Bosh got. Are we arguing that his next deal was unfair? Two years, 18 million per for a guy who was no longer a max player? Wade got tons of support from Miami for not signing a max deal in 2010. And now that the relationship is no longer beneficial for either party, he's moved on and signed a market deal in his home city. The only people that got screwed are Miami fans. But fans are always the ones who get screwed, neither the players nor teams really give a **** about them. And as we seemed to have established during the earlier Kevin Durant fiasco, getting Romantic about the NBA is childish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Starting to experience a little 2013-2014 vibe in here. Getting the feeling that this whole Dwayne Wade ordeal is somehow Mike Shanahan's fault. Whatever man. Jordan is the GOAT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 If you were a fan, you would understand how much he meant and did for this franchise. But you arent, and you don't. And thats alright. no.. i DO understand that. the heat ownership/management are ... not delicious. (my original point was that ON the court LBJ had a little bit of impact on winning some of those titles. and little Boshy too.... ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I agree that those front offices largely failed recently. None of that however makes Kobe's final deal any better. It was a bad deal made by a bad front office. I do have to disagree with the notion that the lakers failed to build around Kobe they got five championships during his career. The Kobe of the last three years wasn't good enough to build around. He wasn't good enough to credibly start for a contender level NBA team.My point Is always that it's not Kobe's responsibility to build a great team. Its management's.And the Lakers front office when Kobe signed was not the same as those title teams. I agree that those front offices largely failed recently. None of that however makes Kobe's final deal any better. It was a bad deal made by a bad front office. I do have to disagree with the notion that the lakers failed to build around Kobe they got five championships during his career. The Kobe of the last three years wasn't good enough to build around. He wasn't good enough to credibly start for a contender level NBA team.My point Is always that it's not Kobe's responsibility to build a great team. Its management's.And the Lakers front office when Kobe signed was not the same as those title teams since Dr. Buss died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Whatever man. Jordan is the GOAT.Shanahan never won anything without Jordan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 no.. i DO understand that. the heat ownership/management are ... not delicious. Almost as bad as licorice candy eeeeeyew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Why are you all acting like Wade is some kind of martyr here? In what way did Miami wrong him? Also how much money do you all think he actually gave up? Because the deal he signed in 2010 was a near max deal with an ETO and it was almost the same as the deals LeBron and Bosh got. Are we arguing that his next deal was unfair? Two years, 18 million per for a guy who was no longer a max player? Wade got tons of support from Miami for not signing a max deal in 2010. And now that the relationship is no longer beneficial for either party, he's moved on and signed a market deal in his home city. The only people that got screwed are Miami fans. But fans are always the ones who get screwed, neither the players nor teams really give a **** about them. And as we seemed to have established during the earlier Kevin Durant fiasco, getting Romantic about the NBA is childish. So you basically hate every star NBA player in the league outside of Wall and I guess Arenas before that huh? Seriously tho, that's a really simplistic way to look at things. Wade is Miami sports. He should have been treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Seriously tho, that's a really simplistic way to look at things. Wade is Miami sports. He should have been treated as such. Wade was Miami sports. That day has come and gone, which was going to be the case right now or a few years from now. What's all this complaining about? Not every player gets treated like Kobe and Jeter and that's a great thing, because in both cases the year long retirement party was nauseating. The focus of teams should always be the team itself. Heroes are honored in ceremonies and with banners, not with absurd contracts that don't make sense and making an entire season about patting them on the head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 So you basically hate every star NBA player in the league outside of Wall and I guess Arenas before that huh? Seriously tho, that's a really simplistic way to look at things. Wade is Miami sports. He should have been treated as such. I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I do think that this was the right move for both Wade and the Heat. The only people that it sucks for are the fans. And again, the NBA (both players and teams) almost always ****s on them in the end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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