RonArtest15

***2019-2020 NBA Season Thread***

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I don't know if it's tampering per the actual rules, but it's too bad it didn't happen with Beal and the Wiz got a haul. 

 

Seriously though, it's not something the NBA wants to see happen. If the Wizards were a playoff team and Beal wanted to be traded only to the Clippers after meeting with KL, this places would explode.  

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Posted (edited)

Didnt even make it 24 hours before my man decided to go nWo Wolfpac on Kawhi.

 

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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17 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

 

There's been free agency for a long time. It only became an issue when guys didnt go to the teams people wanted.  

 

The issue is really all the super soft cap loopholes in the NBA that allow such things.  The luxury tax, Bird rights, exceptions, etc.  People should direct their energies there, rather than at the players.  

 

You bring up a good but, but still believe you need to do both.

 

17 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

No it's not.  You keep characterizing it in a way that makes it more nefarious.  "Demanded", "push his way out", however you wanna say it.  PG didnt have the leverage here.   Cant stop people from wanting what they want though.  

 

And now Kawhi has Jedi mind tricks to get people to do his bidding.  Damn Kawhi.  

 

 

Mind control?  Look, if you don't want to have a serious discussion about this, just say that.  This was absolutely at the detriment of OKC that was already having a weak offseason them put the nail in coffin by PG wanting out. 

 

OKC can't compete with just one star, now they have to rebuild and wait for this to happen all over again at some point in the future.  It should tell you something that OKC felt blindsided by the request then Clippers shows up with biggest trade offer in history simultaneously.

 

On one hand you have some who feel this is wrong but don't know what to do about it, I get that, but acting like this doesn't matter, I can't cosign with that.  It's only a matter of time until someone does that to my team, so yea I care.

 

17 minutes ago, justice98 said:

What part of Kawhi being a free agent is confusing? He wasnt a player under contract, so he can thus talk to who he wants, about what he wants.  Cant stop an UFA from talking to whoever they want, you just cant.  Please tell me how you would concoct a rule that would have prevented Kawhi from talking to a player under contract.  If/when he eventually signs, he gets penalized for the topic of conversation?  It's just stupid.  

 

 

I don't care if they talk about women or cars, I care if they are doing the same thing the tampering rules were put in place to prevent.  This isn't rocket science.

 

17 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Except it didnt.  That's a flawed argument people insist on making.  It just isnt true.  GS wasnt some unbeatable monster that nobody had a chance against.  They didnt steamroll the league and win 5 straight titles like people wanna make it sound. 

 

They went to finals three years in a row and only lost the last one because KD got hurt.  Maybe we need to go back in time to that series against the Cavs were they got swept as reminder of what actually happened.

 

17 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

You're right, I dont care.  I think the superteam argument is dumb and preventing players from talking to each other is also a dumb argument to make.  

 

Because you think it's dumb doesn't mean it is.  If you take the stance it doesn't effect you, good for you, that doesn't change the reality on the ground because of your indifference towards it.

9 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

KL wants to play with superstars so Beal doesn’t qualify. 

Ok, I laughed, but Clippers did call about Beal, so maybe that's not true : )

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2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

And while the NBA is doing its best to copy a year round model and enjoying the headlines and attention it brings....I don't think they're going to strictly enforce any tampering rules.  I agree that teams should allow to accuse players of tampering but I don't think the NBA is going to be 100% invested in an investigation. 

 

 

I hate to agree here, but i don't trust the NBA to look at this offseason intrigue and rush to change it.  It's like we know this escalation is wrong but not sure if we can or should do something about, desensitized since the Durant move to this new world order.  It may take something like some recruiting Gainnis out of Milwaukee before we admit it's gotten out of control, which we all know is next.

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2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

  And while the NBA is doing its best to copy a year round model and enjoying the headlines and attention it brings....I don't think they're going to strictly enforce any tampering rules.  I agree that teams should allow to accuse players of tampering but I don't think the NBA is going to be 100% invested in an investigation. 

 

 

I'm still trying to hear exactly how these tampering rules are supposed to work for a free agent.  

 

Any such rule would just create a system of intermediaries and go betweens relaying messages.  And god forbid they have the same agent, then two people never have to come into contact.  It's woefully unenforceable.

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55 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I don’t know if it’s technically tampering or not and I don’t really care either. 

 

The players have control in the nba and I’d much rather support that than the NFL style where players literally risk their health and well-being while being entirely ruled by the franchise with little to no say in their future. 

 

I love this era of player empowerment. It only takes a couple years to rewrite the league and the top teams and it seems anything can change at a moments notice. 

 

 

You're not a fan of a team, you don't have a dog in the fight.  But if you were a fan of a team that just got held up by Rich Paul or Kawhi Leonard, you'd be ****ing pissed.

 

The way the NBA is run right now caters to front running fans who follow the league generally, and enjoy the pro wrestling type culture of the league.  But that is NOT what the league actually wants to do.  They are desperately trying to create parity and fairness and strong franchises in each market.  The bandwagon and meme crowd aren't the ones who generate revenue.  They don't buy season tickets.  They don't watch games every other night.  And they don't buy merchandise.  It's the sap traditional fans who follow their local teams like the kind of NFL style fan base you're pissing on who generate the vast majority of the teams the majority of their revenue.

 

Teams can't tamper with each other's players because a league where that is the norm would be a nightmare.  On court competition would be a total farce.  But players and their agents themselves absolutely engage in teambuilding.  And they are tampering egregiously and effectively and getting away with it because the league hasn't figured out how to deal with the problem yet.  And it is screwing over the unfortunate teams who get held up for their star players, most of whom have still been under contract.  They are reduced to being farm teams for the organizations that facilitate the teambuilding of these players and agents.  It's a big old **** you to their fanbases, who are the ones making this entire business so profitable.

 

Make no mistake, what Kawhi and Rich Paul just did is a major problem for the NBA and the owners are going to look to prevent it from happening in the future.  But I doubt they will figure out how to stop it.  The league is so reactionary and it's just not that strong.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I'm still trying to hear exactly how these tampering rules are supposed to work for a free agent.  

 

Any such rule would just create a system of intermediaries and go betweens relaying messages.  And god forbid they have the same agent, then two people never have to come into contact.  It's woefully unenforceable.

 

We cannot go about this as unenforcable therefore not worth the effort. 

 

I saw your point on what if WoJ puts out a tweet, NBA should have right to cross-reference his sources to make sure he isn't making **** up or getting played.  I think what you really saying is you don't want the NBA to turn into the FBI, but NFL does investigations all the time, working with whoever they gotta work with even if in the end they decide its all good and don't suspend anyone.

 

  It's a complex problem, get it, but they are shooting people in broad daylight right now.

Edited by Renegade7
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27 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I'm still trying to hear exactly how these tampering rules are supposed to work for a free agent.  

 

Any such rule would just create a system of intermediaries and go betweens relaying messages.  And god forbid they have the same agent, then two people never have to come into contact.  It's woefully unenforceable.

 

Well as a FA nothing.  But a FA calling a player under contract of a team and saying "Hey, ask for a trade, let's go here," is SOMETHING...semantics on what you want to call it.  Tampering?  Interferring?  Whatever.  Just because Kawhi was an FA doesn't mean it was 100% without being somewhat questionable for some.  That said, I don't have a huge problem with it but I can see why some might not like it.

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I mean, if you're an OKC fan you're waking up yesterday morning ****ing pissed that mighty Kawhi decided that he was gonna go to the Clippers and needed your best player to do it.  And told your best player to ask for a trade.  

 

That sucks.  Like I said, I don't have a huge problem with it, probably because it didn't affect me.  But I can see why some others might.  PG is still in OKC if Kawhi doesn't start making phonecalls seeing who he can rustle up.

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If I’m an OKC fan I’m still pissed my ownership burned down a Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka dynasty that should still be running the nba because they were cheap. 

 

Westbrook and PG weren’t winning a title together. Im happy for the boatload of picks that i can use to build a new team. 

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Might as well trade Westbrook at this point, but the questions are to whom and for how much? I've heard the Rockets are interested(how the hell are they ALWAYS in EVERY freaking trade deal talk?) and maybe the Heat.

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Had to go to RealGM for context from an actual Thunder fan. 

 

Consensuse is their GM is an idiot but took a deal they couldn't refuse which makes up for PG putting them in place where they have no choice but to rebuild.  It comes back to not being sure what the picks will turn into and how long that will take.  They are in the beginning stages of realizing they are a farm team because their ownership is too cheap to do what needs to be done with the luxury tax even if they hit on those draft picks. 

 

That fanbase knows they are getting the ass end of everything still wrong with this league exacerbated by a cheap owner and  inconsistent front office.  Most are okay with trading Russ but concerned they won't be able to so maybe they will take those picks to try and get another star instead if giving up, which didnt work when they got PG.  They are trapped between being a low playoff seed and a true rebuild even with that pick haul, they are still in purgatory and hoping for the best.

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Posted (edited)

What Leonard did was not tampering.  No rules were broken.  With that said, should the NBA change the rules?  I dunno, you can't love that it's a "players league" and then complain about players recruiting other players to form super teams when it doesn't fit your agenda or help your team.  

 

While it's not the NBA, with how all these guys play together in AAU and with the internet and social media, etc., I'm actually shocked that the top high school players haven't reached out to each other and formed super college teams.  Like, if I was say the top 5 PG, finding out who the top 10 SG, SF, PF, Centers were in the nation and reaching out to them and forming a pact to accept scholarships at one college and reaching out to that college and saying we all want to play for [insert college name here].

 

It's only a matter of time before it happens, its gotta be right?

 

Anyhow, Leonard's decision at least left us with some great basketball next season, I just hate the west is so loaded cause the games start so ****ing late here on the east coast.

Edited by Dont Taze Me Bro
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OKC slammed their title window shut when they traded James Harden.  They had a super team but failed to see it.  It was all downhill for them from there.  The front office drafted extremely well but lacked the vision necessary to make it work. 

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OKC cost themselves PG not KL. The team they built simply wasn’t good enough. If they had reached the finals I doubt PG leaves. 

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8 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

 

While it's not the NBA, with how all these guys play together in AAU and with the internet and social media, etc., I'm actually shocked that the top high school players haven't reached out to each other and formed super college teams.  Like, if I was say the top 5 PG, finding out who the top 10 SG, SF, PF, Centers were in the nation and reaching out to them and forming a pact to accept scholarships at one college and reaching out to that college and saying we all want to play for [insert college name here].

 

 

Haven't they already been doing this? I know OJ Mayo when he went to USC basically recruited a bunch of guys with him. I'm guessing the big guys on Duke all kinda coordinated to go there together last year. Ditto some of Cal's Kentucky classes.

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10 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

What Leonard did was not tampering.  No rules were broken.  With that said, should the NBA change the rules?  I dunno, you can't love that it's a "players league" and then complain about players recruiting other players to form super teams when it doesn't fit your agenda or help your team.  

Then I guess I can complain because it being a players league hasn’t made the sport better.  It just means more complaining on the court, more iso ball, and more lazy defense. Come to think of it, what exactly are the supposed benefits for fans about the players having so much power?  

 

Quote

While it's not the NBA, with how all these guys play together in AAU and with the internet and social media, etc., I'm actually shocked that the top high school players haven't reached out to each other and formed super college teams.  Like, if I was say the top 5 PG, finding out who the top 10 SG, SF, PF, Centers were in the nation and reaching out to them and forming a pact to accept scholarships at one college and reaching out to that college and saying we all want to play for [insert college name here].

They want to get drafted.  Being a great player, but only the third best on your own team, doesn’t help that cause.

 

Quote

Anyhow, Leonard's decision at least left us with some great basketball next season, I just hate the west is so loaded cause the games start so ****ing late here on the east coast.

It left us with great basketball precisely because it did not form a super team.  Lebron, AD, Kawhi, and Boogie would have made next season much less interesting. 

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21 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

OKC cost themselves PG not KL. The team they built simply wasn’t good enough. If they had reached the finals I doubt PG leaves

Idk, man, 28 teams don't make the finals every year, seems like a dangerous argument to make.  Is that the lithmus test we really want to go on? That'd mean 14 playoff teams every year with no room to talk if this happens to them.

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18 minutes ago, Destino said:

OKC slammed their title window shut when they traded James Harden.  They had a super team but failed to see it.  It was all downhill for them from there.  The front office drafted extremely well but lacked the vision necessary to make it work.  

 

Does making a mistake in 2012 mean they deserve to lose their best player in 2019 because another great player decided he wanted him on his team?  Does it mean they deserve to become an LA farm team?  Does it mean that contracts should essentially be meaningless for the league's best players?  Those would be signs of a very unhealthy league IMO.

 

The others are right that NBA players are the ones with the real power in the league.  They engage in team building, but they aren't bound by the rules that teams are.  Rules that prevent a toxic, anti-competitive culture of cheating from forming in the league.  If they're going to build teams, then they should have to adhere to the same anti-tampering rules as teams.

32 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Haven't they already been doing this? I know OJ Mayo when he went to USC basically recruited a bunch of guys with him. I'm guessing the big guys on Duke all kinda coordinated to go there together last year. Ditto some of Cal's Kentucky classes.

 

Yeah they've been doing it.  One example, I remember Wall talking about how he and Cousins knew they were going to go to college together since they were like 14.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Switch to first round exit. OKC couldn’t make any moves to get better either. 

It's tough because OKC has absolutely made mistakes that kept them from being a championship team.  29 other teams a year can say that.  

 

More i think about how to articulate this, this isn't a small market vs big market problem, this is less successful franchise versus superstar problem, and its flowing on a year by year basis.

 

To a casual fan (not saying you are), they may see this offseason and see more parity then probably every before.  That's not a bad thing.  If your Milwaukee, you look at this realize your window might not be Giannis getting too old, but his next contract or that phone call they can't stop.  I would be absolutely sick to my stomach if i saw that, itd mean none of us are safe.

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53 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

It's tough because OKC has absolutely made mistakes that kept them from being a championship team.  29 other teams a year can say that.  

 

More i think about how to articulate this, this isn't a small market vs big market problem, this is less successful franchise versus superstar problem, and its flowing on a year by year basis.

 

To a casual fan (not saying you are), they may see this offseason and see more parity then probably every before.  That's not a bad thing.  If your Milwaukee, you look at this realize your window might not be Giannis getting too old, but his next contract or that phone call they can't stop.  I would be absolutely sick to my stomach if i saw that, itd mean none of us are safe.

 

I"m with Taze, this is a superstar driven league do you want the power they have to be transferred to owners? I don't because the owners are under no obligation to win but make money. On a sidenote, Kemba absolutely wanted to stay with the Hornets but MJ didn't want to pay him. 

 

Also, I don't really understand what you mean none of us are safe. I mean that would be the norm in an extremely competitive league. Can't have it both ways. Also, I don't think this situation applies that much to Giannis. He isn't from the USA, he didn't grow up here. Also, if we are looking back, LeBron left his hometown but eventually came back. He won them a ring, he can pretty much do anything at this point and Cav fans can't hate him. , KD left OKC and signed with the best team in the league, then he left the best team in the league due to not being loved like Steph. None of those situations are really similar to Giannis. PG and KL both grew up in LA and idolized the Laker greats. Also, what stops Giannis from calling a superstar and getting them to come to him. LeBron got Love to come to him. 

 

I think the situation is fine. 

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3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I mean, if you're an OKC fan you're waking up yesterday morning ****ing pissed that mighty Kawhi decided that he was gonna go to the Clippers and needed your best player to do it.  And told your best player to ask for a trade.  

 

That sucks.  Like I said, I don't have a huge problem with it, probably because it didn't affect me.  But I can see why some others might.  PG is still in OKC if Kawhi doesn't start making phonecalls seeing who he can rustle up.

 

If anything, people's beef should be with PG.  He's the one under contract that wwnt running asking for a trade just because somebody said something he liked. 

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