***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Sticksboi05]

Lol wat? Where have you been the last 11 years?

 

It's his turn again.  And he wasn't really criticized heavily until The Decision.  Before then everyone knew he was a one-man team.

[Ozymandias]

And he wasn't really criticized heavily until The Decision.

You must not have followed the nba much back then.

[daveakl]

Kosher Ham?

i hate you so much.

[PeterMP]

1.  People criticizing Lebron's 3rd quarter scoring as padding garbage time stats don't follow the NBA much and don't understand basketball.  Considering what the rest of the team was doing, Lebron played at least really well.  He needs at least one other person to play.  Nobody else is really excelling on defense or offense.  Even if another player or two said, I'm going to play good/great man-to-man D and control my man, it would be a different story.  RIght now, he's the only person playing at anything close to a championship level.

 

2.  I know their offense struggled last night, but I think the problem is still they have no answer for the Spurs on defense.  I think that took them out of their offense in terms of there being added pressure on the Heat on offense.

 

3.  Again, I'd play some zone (As I said after game 3 to me the Spurs have figured something out about the Heat defense.  They get a good shot almost every time down the floor).

 

4.  Wade has to recognize that he can't do it in this series/game and stop shooting and/or the coach has to pull him.  Last night a shot attempt by Wade was a win on D for the Spurs.  He WAS the person that the Spurs wanted to taking the shot.  When you are the weak link on offense, you have to recognize that.

Edited June 13, 2014 by PeterMP

[Kosher Ham]

 They look like they were the fourth best team in the league this year, and were fortunate to play in the East.

 

Playing against the East, gives them an easier road. Same thing is going on in the NHL finals right now. The West is dominant. Great win for the Rangers...but they won't win.

 

Someone predicted spurs in 6 and that they would be up 3-1 after game 4. Who was that modern day nostradamas?

 

I could easily be wrong. Spurs could win on Sunday. I don't recall saying that  (3-1) , but ...beer probably. haha.

 

 Ive never seen so many wide open 3s before, especially in the finals.

 

I have said it from the beginning...the perimeter D of the Heat...how do they fix it at this point ? The big 3 have to really step up and handle business. I just have no belief that they can win 3 straight against this Spurs team.

 

i hate you so much.

 

Wait me or him ?

 

Taze, don't blow up my spot. I have to go back and see if I said the 3-1 part but several people said Spurs in 6... I think.

 

Wagers...I am 4 for 5 on this series. Game 2, I lost the Spurs, but won the under. I bet Spurs last night and my buddy bet the under (198) He squeaked by and I simply smiled.

 

BTW, I meant to quote you.

[Kosher Ham]

I did say it. Wow.

[JoeWolf990]

Yeah, but "Lebron" as a mindset is!  And how would we know?  The dude does nothing when his team needs it, instead he makes a bunch of buckets down 20+.  Was he the reason the HEat lost vs. the MAvs when Marion made him his **** and when he disappeared?  I mean it certainly wasn't on Wade who put in an extraordinary effort at times.

 

Maybe Miami should have picked up Diaw, but then again, I think we all know how little he'd resemble his game now having to play with the likes of Lebron and Wade.

 

Except for the fact these games have been blowouts, I'd like to know Lebron's stats, INCLUDING turnovers for the final five minutes of fourth quarters.

 

What we're seeing now is the rewriting of history to protect Lebron's reputation.  It's always Wade or Bosh or whoever, nevermind that Mike Miller balled so hard for him, or how Wade would have been FMVP in 2011 if he had just been SEMI-involved and not in ghost mode.  Hell, who knows what happens if they call him for ONE of the THREE fouls he committed on Durant in Game 2 in 2012?

Has anyone ever been given so much for having done so little?  

 

Lebron back on the floor in a huge blowout to stat pad.  Oh, nevermind. lol

 

Leonard is the best player on the court anyway. So...meh.

were you drooling when you typed this?

Such nonsense lol.

Im trying to figure out how a team that won back to back NBA titles, and made 4 straight finals is now a failure. Some of you have no conscience.

The Heat team is old and just cant defend the Spurs. Miami's defense is all about over-committing to force turnovers, well now the Spurs are moving the ball and its faster than the man. Its really like soccer played at its highest peak. And Diaw has been immense. The Spurs is just the better team.

Also, DWashed is finished. There is nothing left in that guy. He should really lose some weight so his knees do not get fried.

[RawBBQSauce]

There has been some talk that D Wade will demand a max deal from the Heat after this season. LOL.

 

Go back and look at the game tape, Dywyane (Is it? Dwanye? Dawayne? Dwayne? No, wait...Dwyane!)

[KDawg]

The Spurs right now are simply a better basketball team. The Heat have three solid players who demand attention but not much else. Ray Allen is aging, but still solid, but otherwise they don't have a whole lot depth wise. That's why it's comical to me that they may sign Carmelo Anthony. What good will that do other than entirely sap them of any depth that they may have?

[@DCGoldPants]

The talk this morning on sportstalk radio has been back to the Lebron and other greats from past generations.Some folks will say that all the greats from Bird to Magic to Jordan and earlier had great players with them. Others say the difference is that those players brought out the best in those teammates and Lebron hasn't done that with his teams. 

 

I'm not saying that's right or wrong. Just saying that you do see more "team" from the Spurs right now. Duncan didn't score much. He did have a double double last night. But it was pretty even across their guys while Miami is usually a one man show even with those other stars.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Garbage teams? You think OKC was better or more experienced than Blazers 92?  They aren't even as good as the Phoenix Suns team.  Barkley, for all his faults (defense) showed more heart in that series than Lebron has in all but maybe one of his (Finals.)  Utah Jazz kicked the **** out of the a Bryant/Shaq/Eddie Jones/Van Exel team and beat Rockets, how were they garbage? How would that Sonics team lose to this Heat team? Did you ever watch them that season or know who Shawn Kemp (before his decline), Gary Payton and Nate McMillan are and how they would play?

 

How old are you?  You know nothing, man.  I admit this San Antonio team is good, it's difficult for me to assess them fairly vs. those Bulls opponents, but what I do know is the Bulls played in a vastly superior Eastern conference.  Please, let's stop overusing "hate." I don't hate Lebron at all, though I do find him overrated and annoying in certain respects.  

 

maybe you're just mad because he can't measure up? lol   That might be because he's NOT a hero? haha

 

I've been here to varying degrees, if you wanted to check archives you could find me being pro-Lebron when he was with the Cavs.  I think I just left his bandwagon because the Heat and the teamup are lame.  I WOULD root for them over the Lakers though.  As for the last two years, I don't even think I've been active in Tailgate for a few years.  I could have my friends provide affidavits if you need them, though.  Heh.

 

Are you getting paid by the word?

[MattFancy]

The Spurs are such a fun team to watch. Was watching last night with my wife (who hates basketball) and she couldn't get over how great the Spurs looked. If you want to show young kids how to play the game of basketball, you would show them Games 3 and 4 of this series. All this talk about the World Cup and "the beautiful game", well the Spurs are the NBA's version of that. Just amazing to watch.

[Going Commando]

1.  People criticizing Lebron's 3rd quarter scoring as padding garbage time stats don't follow the NBA much and don't understand basketball.  Considering what the rest of the team was doing, Lebron played at least really well.  He needs at least one other person to play.  Nobody else is really excelling on defense or offense.  Even if another player or two said, I'm going to play good/great man-to-man D and control my man, it would be a different story.  RIght now, he's the only person playing at anything close to a championship level.

 

2.  I know their offense struggled last night, but I think the problem is still they have no answer for the Spurs on defense.  I think that took them out of their offense in terms of there being added pressure on the Heat on offense.

 

3.  Again, I'd play some zone (As I said after game 3 to me the Spurs have figured something out about the Heat defense.  They get a good shot almost every time down the floor).

 

4.  Wade has to recognize that he can't do it in this series/game and stop shooting and/or the coach has to pull him.  Last night a shot attempt by Wade was a win on D for the Spurs.  He WAS the person that the Spurs wanted to taking the shot.  When you are the weak link on offense, you have to recognize that.

 

1.) LeBron did play well in the third quarter.  He was trying to get the team back in it.  But I agree with the people saying it was too little too late.  He has to play with that kind of intensity from the opening tip all the way to the end to set the tone for the night.  It's essential because SA is relentless and they will run up a huge lead.  Not just LeBron either though, the other leaders on the Heat all have to do the same.

 

2.) Agreed.  It goes back to Miami loafing around on D IMO.  They aren't getting through the screens and they aren't rotating as sharp as they have to.  That stuff is killer against SA's offense.  But also they aren't forcing turnovers at the rate they should.  SA makes so many high risk passes and drives and Miami is simply not making the plays to punish them.  They need to anticipate that stuff, they have to be sharp.  

 

- When you see Boris Diaw drive like a boulder rolling down a hill from the perimeter, you need to either get in his way and get the charge or you need to look for the guy he's going to pass it to because you know what he's looking for.  

 

- A shaky ballhandler like Kawhi Leonard shouldn't be able to put the ball on the ground and get through you and he shouldn't be running the break.  Those are opportunities where a good defense's eyes should light up because a charge or a steal is there to be had.

 

Miami is letting San Antonio set the physical tone and definitely set the pace and win the intensity battle.  Miami has bigger, stronger, more athletic players at key positions.  But they're backing down to smaller "finesse" players for San Antonio because SA just wants it so much more.  I think this speaks to a real leadership void in that Miami locker room right now.  I think that's a condemnation of Spoelstra, LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.  Those guys are their leaders.

 

3.) Might as well at this point.  They're facing elimination and nothing is working.  Maybe trying something new shakes out the cobwebs.

 

4.) I don't agree.  Wade doesn't need to press like he did at times last night.  But off games happen.  The worst thing a star and a team leader like Wade can do is let it take him out of the series.  He has absolutely got to be aggressive.  He needs to play with as much intensity and passion as he ever has.  If he relentlessly searches for good shots and gets them, they will start going in.  Wade was getting good shots last night, he was just off, missing from inside three feet in a way he almost never does.  He's one of the best finishers of any guard ever.  He needs to trust his game and keep going to that well.

 

BUT, I think Spoelstra should have made an adjustment earlier to stagger Wade and LeBron's minutes more.  They are not synergizing right now.  Wade should have moved into a true sixth man role to be the second line ball handler and creator.  Have LeBron's aggressiveness set the tone right off the bat, then bring in Wade to be aggressive and set the tone for the bench, which is very thin on play making.

[TradeTheBeal!]

A thing of beauty is a joy forever.  And the Spurs offensive sets are a thing of beauty.

[pjfootballer]

I am of the Lebron fans, loved him in Cleveland and love him in Miami. I grew up loving to watch Bird and Magic and absolutely dispised Jordan and always found him to be of such an amazing fortune due to being drafted and supported through his career with not only hall of fame players, but arguably the best coach of all time.

Wait, What?  You realize that when the Bulls drafted Jordan, they had...nothing.  His teams struggled for years to get past the Pistons. You say you loved watching Bird and Magic, yet the both teams had HOF players at every position and probably on the bench while Bird and Magic played with them.  Plus, the Celtics robbed the Warriors for Parrish and the Lakers drafted Magic because they owned the Jazz pick and then won a coin flip with Chicago.  They weren't even a  bad enough a team to be able to pick that high. And you say Jordan had the best coach of all time, but are Pat Riley and KC Jones slouches?  Come on man. Jordan had to earn his way past the Pistons.  There was no one in the west to challenge the Lakers for a long time and you can say Bird was fortunate to have been drafted by the Celtics with only the 76ers as any legitimate competition until Jordan's Bulls got better in the late 80s. Magic was fortunate to be drafted by the Lakers with guys like Kareem and such.  I mean, let's give Jordan a little more credit here.

[Going Commando]

The Spurs right now are simply a better basketball team. The Heat have three solid players who demand attention but not much else. Ray Allen is aging, but still solid, but otherwise they don't have a whole lot depth wise. That's why it's comical to me that they may sign Carmelo Anthony. What good will that do other than entirely sap them of any depth that they may have?

 

Agreed about Melo.  It is comical.  Ray Allen is more than solid IMO.  I think Miami is under-utilizing him.  I think he can play forever despite his age because his game is all skill based and he is in incredible shape.  He takes care of his body in a way that Wade absolutely has to mimic moving forward.  Wade does need to slim down.  He needs his minutes shortened so he can play more games.  And he is simply going to take a paycut once his contract is up, no way around that.

 

Miami is going to lose this series.  It's a pretty big failure on many fronts because this was a wasted year of their window when you get down to it.  It's only going to get harder for them to win rings as they age.

 

Their way of operating the past four years is over.  This has to shake them out of complacency to make some changes to their offensive and defensive philosophies, to change their rotations, and to search for new solutions on the bench.  This is what I'd do for sure:

 

1.) Start Norris Cole at PG

2.) Start Ray Allen at SG.  He's a much better fit with LeBron at this point.

3.) Start LeBron at SF!  Lighten his minutes.  

4.) Start Bosh at PF!  And I wouldn't camp him out behind the three point line.  I want him aggressive and running PnRs and finishing more plays.

5.) Find another decent body to create a true time share at C with Birdman.  I want a true big that can play big man defense.

6.) Move Wade to the sixth man.

7.) Dump Chalmers and find a back up PG that's a true knock down set shot shooter a la Patty Mills.  These guys are out there.

8.) Find aforementioned big.

9.) Haslem at backup PF.

10.) A shooter at back up SF.

 

Go with a ten man rotation.  Or more, for when guys need nights off.  Miami is an aging team.  They have to accept the reality that they must go ten deep now.

 

Maybe all that can't happen this offseason.  It'd probably require Wade and Bosh to opt out and take a huge hit for the team money-wise.  But that pay cut is coming for Wade and Bosh eventually if they want to keep contending in Miami.  They've got player options for the next summer too LOL.  Honestly it Serves Pat Riley for kissing their asses in the summer of 2010 to chase them, giving them an ETO AND a player option on a six year near max deal.  Mortgaging your future always comes up eventually.

 

LeBron is the only one with the ETO whose going to be worth his money this summer, much less next year when they have their options.  If I'm Bosh or Wade, why in hell would I give up tens of millions of dollars of guaranteed money?  Money I KNOW I'm not getting back because I can't command even close to a max deal on the open market any more!?  Especially if management is just going to do something stupid with the savings like chase Melo?

 

Talk about going star chasing with Melo again tells me that their management doesn't totally get it.  That's not the way the Spurs do it!  Trying to build a franken-team by chasing established stars and short cut the building process isn't real team building.  It seems to be the way a lot of Eastern teams think they can build.  But it's not sustainable.  Not with this CBA.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

 

What's truly remarkable about the Spurs is their culture.  And the evidence is in them having guys like Bellinelli and Bonner just sitting their on the bench, happy with their place on the team.  Those guys are fabulous shooters and good role players who could easily find a place in rotations around the league.  But they don't care about their minutes in San Antonio.  And when the Spurs call their numbers, they are always ready to perform.  There are very few organizations that inspire that kind of faith and willingness to sacrifice in their players.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this. Not about the culture, but about these guys finding roles elsewhere. The Spurs take guys no one wants and turns them into effective parts of the machine.

 

There was no demand for Patty Mills. He was the 10th man on an average Portland team, and they had no real interest in bringing him back. If the Spurs didn't sign him, he is probably playing pro ball in Australia now.

 

Boris Diaw was on a trajectory out of the league. He went from big contributer to forgotten man to trade bait in Phoenix. He did nothing except get fat in Charlotte. He probably still be in the league if San Antionio didn't sign him, because he is talented. But we'd see him once a year on NBATV and say, "What the hell happened to that guy?" And now, he is murdering the freaking Heat.

 

Danny Green was waived by Cleveland. And then the Spurs sent him to the D-League. He can only do two things in basketball. Hit threes and stop transition layups. (By the way, he is the greatest one on one transition defender I've ever seen. It's amazing). I am a better dribbler than he is. Yet, here he is murdering the Heat.

 

Three guys. All cut by other teams. One fat. One who can't dribble. And they are all making massive contributions to a team that is probably going to win a title.

[pjfootballer]

Read people's reaction around the internet on the big 4 concept. You're dead wrong about this.

I've never liked it, even in the 80s.

[Chew]

cheer up, bro.  can't win 'em all.  

 

 

 

 

[Sticksboi05]

You must not have followed the nba much back then.

 

Exactly what heavy, complete criticism did LeBron face before The Decision?  He got some flack for losing to Boston and "quitting" on his team in the middle of a close out game but before then it was all "OMG he scored the Cavs last 25 points vs. Detroit!".  He got not more flack than any other star player got in the league unless we're specifically discussing Skip Bayless.  Nothing compared to after the 2011 Finals or after The Decision.

 

I was following the NBA long before LeBron was relevant and as far as ES goes I was on here nightly posting when the Wiz discussions actually took place in the Wizards section of ES when it was just a few of us.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1.) LeBron did play well in the third quarter.  He was trying to get the team back in it.  But I agree with the people saying it was too little too late.  He has to play with that kind of intensity from the opening tip all the way to the end to set the tone for the night.  It's essential because SA is relentless and they will run up a huge lead.  Not just LeBron either though, the other leaders on the Heat all have to do the same.

 

 

Lebron could be averaging 42 a game, and this series would still be in the same place. Miami looks totally befuddled on defense and that is starting to impact their offense. They played more hero ball last night than they have since early 2011.

 

2.) Agreed.  It goes back to Miami loafing around on D IMO.  They aren't getting through the screens and they aren't rotating as sharp as they have to.  That stuff is killer against SA's offense.  But also they aren't forcing turnovers at the rate they should.  SA makes so many high risk passes and drives and Miami is simply not making the plays to punish them.  They need to anticipate that stuff, they have to be sharp.

 

I don't think it's necessarily lack of effort. I think their point guards are absolutely killing them. Chalmers looks like a D-Leaguer. I think they are trying. They just look spent. Something to ponder: They have now played over 80 playoff games over the last four years (and the Big 3 have played an Olympics in the middle of that). That's an extra season. I've been waiting for that to catch up to them. It looks like it may have to some degree. (Though - once again - so much of this is the Spurs playing out of their minds).

 

BUT, I think Spoelstra should have made an adjustment earlier to stagger Wade and LeBron's minutes more.  They are not synergizing right now.  Wade should have moved into a true sixth man role to be the second line ball handler and creator.  Have LeBron's aggressiveness set the tone right off the bat, then bring in Wade to be aggressive and set the tone for the bench, which is very thin on play making.

 

Wade's just bad right now. And I don't know if making him a sixth man is going to wake him up. I think he needs three months in a hyperbaric chamber.

[Sticksboi05]

LKB is this reminiscent of the Celtics in 1987?  After a fourth trip to the Finals it just got to be too much.

[Going Commando]

The talk this morning on sportstalk radio has been back to the Lebron and other greats from past generations.Some folks will say that all the greats from Bird to Magic to Jordan and earlier had great players with them. Others say the difference is that those players brought out the best in those teammates and Lebron hasn't done that with his teams. 

 

I'm not saying that's right or wrong. Just saying that you do see more "team" from the Spurs right now. Duncan didn't score much. He did have a double double last night. But it was pretty even across their guys while Miami is usually a one man show even with those other stars.

 

LeBron is far enough along in his career for us to know him as a performer, especially in high pressure situations.  Past comparisons to the All Timers aren't that flattering to LeBron.  He is simply not the competitor that Jordan, Russell, Bird, Magic, etc. were.

 

LeBron definitely isn't Wilt.  The one thing he absolutely is not is selfish.  But he is more Wilt than Russell.

 

And I think we should be OK with that honestly.  And his teams shouldn't expect more than that honestly.  They should account for it.  LeBron can do so many positive things for a team that you should be able to build a contender around him pretty easily.  But he is NOT the personality that I want defining my team and leading the locker room.  I want a Duncan or a Dirk too.

 

I don't honestly know that there is a Bird or Magic or Jordan or Russell inhabiting in the league right now.  And that kind of makes me sad.  Maybe Duncan/KG/Dirk, but they're so old now.  Kobe came close, he is absolutely that kind of competitor.  But he NEVER truly got the team first mentality and willingness to sacrifice those past greats did.  He too only won when he played on teams with completely overwhelming talent.

 

I think if you took Kobe's competitive drive and paired it with LeBron's big picture understanding of what team play and sacrifice are all about, you would have another true Russell/Jordan player that could legitimately be in that potential GOAT conversation.

[CrypticVillain]

I don't care that Wade didn't perform, I don't care that Lebron wasn't aggressive early on. 

 

The Heat didn't lose that game, the Spurs won it. 

 

The Spurs have beat the Heat by an average of slightly over 18 points a game. They are a good team. Screw all this, if Lebron did this, or Wade did that. What we need to say is Diaw did this, Mills did that, Parker did a little of, Ginobili threw in a bit of, etc. 

[daveakl]

I did say it. Wow.

lol, I know, so did I  We are super wicked smart!