Popeman38 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 All of this makes me really wish the members of Congress would've at least listened to Michael Moore when he was trying to read the Patriot Act to them from a megaphone in a bread/ice cream truck. (But he's just some crazy movie guy who makes **** up, right?) Kinda seems important now, huh? Michael Moore is a poor documentary maker who profits off tragedy. He shapes thinks at best, and outright lies at worst. So yeah, we should listen to that nut job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 All of this makes me really wish the members of Congress would've at least listened to Michael Moore when he was trying to read the Patriot Act to them from a megaphone in a bread/ice cream truck. (But he's just some crazy movie guy who makes **** up, right?) Kinda seems important now, huh?Listen to Michael Moore? No. Listen to people who made salient points about the PATRIOT Act who aren't known for twisting facts of flat out making them up? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Bump for Frontline special on the NSA that's airing on PBS right now. Incredibly fascinating stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 the thread title (and premise) is getting more absurd every day... Edward Snowden fled to RUSSIA to try to protect democracy... I think that speaks volumes. (to be clear, what i am saying here is that i think Snowden is a self serving self aggrandizing turd) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 and criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RansomthePasserby Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 And collaborator in Putin's propaganda (see the link below on Snowden's softball "question" during one of Putin's press conferences). http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/17/world/europe/russia-snowden-putin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 In a different era the ire of Americans would be pointed at the government officials who allowed this to go on, as opposed to the man who pretty much lost everything to expose these crimes. What is fascinating is how the Snowden leaks pretty much nuked the 2nd term for President Obama. Once the 2014 elections are done, everyone will be turning to 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 In a different era the ire of Americans would be pointed at the government officials who allowed this to go on, as opposed to the man who pretty much lost everything to expose these crimes. Utter nonsense. Ditto MC Sluggo's post. He fled to Russia for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 In a different era the ire of Americans would be pointed at the government officials who allowed this to go on, as opposed to the man who pretty much lost everything to expose these crimes. What is fascinating is how the Snowden leaks pretty much nuked the 2nd term for President Obama. Once the 2014 elections are done, everyone will be turning to 2016 1) The Snowden leaks didn't expose anything. At least, not to me. I've known that they've been spying on me for 10 years more. Two different Presidents said so. All you had to do, was to pay attention. When the question is "Mr. President, is the US Government spying on American's phone calls?", and the answer is "No, the government is not listening to every single phone call in the country.", then the answer has been answered, and the answer is "yes". (And every single person, media pundit, or ES poster who repeated the "answer" that "they are not listening to every single phone call", knew that they were answering "yes, but I approve of it", as well.) 2) And I think you are grossly amplifying the impact of these leaks. They are not in any way responsible for the fact that Obama is a Lame Duck. ---------- The People have spoken. And they have said they don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The People have spoken. And they have said they don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 ---------- Utter nonsense. Ditto MC Sluggo's post. He fled to Russia for crying out loud. Which, near as I can tell, does not dispute a single thing he said. Well, I think his claim that previous generations would have been outraged differs from my opinion. Previous generations had no problem with McCarthy, or Japanese internment. Or Lincoln's actions during the Civil War, for that matter. If you were labeling his assertion that previous generations would be outraged as "utter nonsense", then my opinion is that history agrees with your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The People have spoken. And they have said they don't care. Speak for yourself. There is absolutely nothing that the people of this country can do to change domestic spying. It started with a Republican and was transferred and increased by a Democrat. We can't vote our way out of government spying. We are hostages in our own country by our own government and we can't do a thing about it. Add to that, that many of the voting population thinks that this is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Add to that, that many of the voting population thinks that this is a good idea.I think you may have just supported his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I think you may have just supported his point.Many, not all. Maybe not even a majority. It certainly seems like those that are ok with it are outspoken though.Also, doesn't make it right. Even if 100% of the population supported domestic surveillance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 BTW, I just posted links in the Daily Show thread to Monday's Colbert. He spends like half the show interviewing Glenn Grenwald, who just won a Pulitzer for his book about the NSA surveillance programs. I think it's a really good interview. And probably a much more thorough and tough one than most "real journalists" would have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurseReversed Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 A lot of people care. They just are not sure how to express their displeasure. Frustration with policies are not easily channeled into appropriate action. The political system has many people boxed in. The waters are so muddy nowadays that people don't know what to believe and who to trust. There is the cloud of partisan strife that hangs over so many people. A system that is built into most things they see every day and reinforced by the habit of choosing sides they have fought or aligned themselves with in the past. It is so much easier to channel your frustration when there are only two sides to choose from. This is what most people will do when things are so unsure, fall back on old habits. Unfortunately the issues we are faced with and the problems that plague us have become far more dynamic then left and right. I sincerely hope we can step out of the box and really change them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I don't know if voters care or not. There isn't an alternative for them to vote for as both parties, no matter what they say, have continued down this road once elected. There may be a radical out there swearing to dismantle it all but in this system where money rules everything and the parties, not the individual candidates, have the most money there is no room for these voices to do much but huff and puff before quickly getting outspent and defeated. Plus this is not the kind of issue that really encourages people not to talk much about opposing it. If the government can arrest people without charges, add people to the do not fly list without giving a reason or means of challenging it, and can investigate anyone without needing a warrant or even declaring a cause (because no one has the authority to prevent it) why would the average person want to loudly complain and draw attention to themselves? Most people would rather avoid problems and really just want to live their lives. If big brother is really watching, the first instinct of most will be to keep their head down. The existence of unchecked police powers, or if you'd prefer to nit pick insufficiently checked powers, is in and of itself an act of intimidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Part 1: May 14th, 2014 ↓ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUe6qyEXoJQ ... Part 2: Tuesday, May 20th. 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 An issue which seems to be ignored is that the NSA has paid mainstream tech companies to include vulnerabilities in their products. However, these vulnerabilities are subject to exploitation by foreign enemies. The NSA, in order to make its domestic spying program easier, has made everyone less safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Do these words mean what I think they mean? They're written in plain English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Do these words mean what I think they mean? They're written in plain English. Obviously it means shut up and stand in line to be frisked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Obviously it means shut up and stand in line to be frisked. Or we're all at risk of fiery death and unreasonably high prices. Let the fear guide you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 you know, if snowden had found item x, or item y, and it troubled him, and he had leaked it.... i would have some sympathy. but instead he just took EVERYTHING that he could get his hands on, and took them over to the Russians. if you think THAT has made you, me or any of us safer... i don't know what to say. After the fact people have sifted through the wreckage, and found corroborating evidence in some specific correspondences of issues that they were already troubled by... and used THAT as justification for this massive espionage. I call bull****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 you know, if snowden had found item x, or item y, and it troubled him, and he had leaked it.... i would have some sympathy. but instead he just took EVERYTHING that he could get his hands on, and took them over to the Russians. if you think THAT has made you, me or any of us safer... i don't know what to say. After the fact people have sifted through the wreckage, and found corroborating evidence in some specific correspondences of issues that they were already troubled by... and used THAT as justification for this massive espionage. I call bull****. Because all of this is Snowden's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 no, none of the NSA spying, or whatever other pet issue you are attached to... is his fault... releasing tens of thousands of OTHER unrelated confidential documents to the Russians and others IS his ****ing fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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