CNN.com: NSA leaker fears for democracy

[isle-hawg]

(CNN) -- A 29-year-old computer technician for a
U.S. defense contractor leaked details of a top-secret American program
that sifts through reams of data from telecommunications companies,
American and British newspapers revealed Sunday.

"My sole motive is to
inform the public as to that which is done in their name and that which
is done against them," the source, Edward Snowden, told Britain's the
Guardian, one of the papers that broke stories on the program last week.

The Washington Post also disclosed Sunday that Snowden was the source on its stories.

Snowden is a former
technical assistant for the CIA and has been working at the National
Security Agency, the U.S. electronic intelligence service, for the past
four years, the newspaper reported. He said he walked away from a
six-figure job in Hawaii for the computer consulting firm Booz Allen
Hamilton and has holed up in a hotel in Hong Kong in preparation for the
expected fallout from his disclosures.

"I'm willing to sacrifice
all of that because I can't in good conscience allow the U.S.
government to destroy privacy, Internet freedom and basic liberties for
people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're
secretly building," he said.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/09/politics/nsa-leak-identity/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

Somewhat ironic to me that he is concerned for democracy but yet moves to Hong
Kong which is controlled by China these days and they are not exactly the
bastion for democracy, privacy, transparency, human rights or lack of spying...

 

 

[Dan T.]

He fears for democracy?  For better or worse, the Patriot Act was enacted by democratically elected leaders.  If he subverted the law, he needs to face the consequences, regardless of his good intentions.  He's not the one-man morality police.

[ixcuincle]

As I said before, in the other thread, he a snitch. He gonna get got or at least taken back to US custody. 

 

What NSA is doing may be immoral, but you have certain obligations you agree to when you take a top-secret federal job. And snitching ain't one of them. 

[SkinsHokieFan]

He fears for democracy?  For better or worse, the Patriot Act was enacted by democratically elected leaders.  If he subverted the law, he needs to face the consequences, regardless of his good intentions.  He's not the one-man morality police.

 

Without guys like Snowden, we the American public never find out about abuses. Just think if there was no deepthroat in the '72 (to be honest, if Nixon had the tools that Bush/Obama had he is never forced to resign)

 

Leakers and whisleblowers are important in keeping elected officials honest. 

[Larry]

Somewhat ironic to me that he is concerned for democracy but yet moves to Hong

Kong which is controlled by China these days and they are not exactly the

bastion for democracy, privacy, transparency, human rights or lack of spying...

But which probably has high paying job openings for computer hackers.

[ixcuincle]

Somewhat ironic to me that he is concerned for democracy but yet moves to Hong

Kong which is controlled by China these days and they are not exactly the

bastion for democracy, privacy, transparency, human rights or lack of spying...

But which probably has high paying job openings for computer hackers.

 

He made 200k as an infrastructure analyst

 

I think he should have just shut his mouth and done his job. Then he can enjoy a nice lifestyle in NoVA. Then again, I have no morals at all and will pretty much do what I'm told. I ain't no whistleblower or no snitch

[deejaydana]

He fears for democracy?  For better or worse, the Patriot Act was enacted by democratically elected leaders.  If he subverted the law, he needs to face the consequences, regardless of his good intentions.  He's not the one-man morality police.

 

Without guys like Snowden, we the American public never find out about abuses. Just think if there was no deepthroat in the '72 (to be honest, if Nixon had the tools that Bush/Obama had he is never forced to resign)

 

Leakers and whisleblowers are important in keeping elected officials honest. 

Exactly. The lockstep crowd of Obama apologists never fails to amaze me. The IRS story alone has so many stories that are coming to light that were it an 'R' in office this board would be alight with threads for each issue. Both sides have their share of involvement in how badly our freedoms are being eroded but even Nixon was denied by the IRS when he tried to use it to illegal ends. Obama, not so much. Where's the outrage?

[TheGoodBits]

This guy seems like he has never had a job he hasn't become immediately disillusioned with.. how he was consistently able to maintain the clearance level he had is beyond me..

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/09/18865637-i-will-be-made-to-suffer-for-my-actions-self-identified-source-for-nsa-leaks-comes-forward?lite

 

"Snowden earned a GED but never graduated from college. In 2003, he
enlisted in the U.S. Army with the hopes of joining the Special Forces,
but broke both legs in a training accident and was discharged. He told
the paper that he joined the armed forces in hopes of helping the Iraqi
people escape from oppression, but was jarred that his commanders
“seemed pumped up about killing Arabs.”"

 

"

After his injury, Snowden got a job as a security guard at a covert
NSA facility at the University of Maryland, The Guardian reported. That
led to a job working on IT security for the CIA.

It was in 2007,
when the CIA stationed Snowden in Geneva, Switzerland that he began to
question the techniques used by the U.S. government to gather
intelligence.

"Much of what I saw in Geneva really disillusioned
me about how my government functions and what its impact is in the
world," he told the newspaper."

 

"Snowden left the CIA in 2009, but got a job working for a private
contractor that stationed him on a military base in Japan to work at an
NSA facility. He said that his exposure and access to the sweeping
information collection efforts by the government, along with his belief
that Obama continued the invasive programs that he campaigned to end,
hardened him to the national security efforts that was working to
advance."

 

This guy is an embarrassment to the intelligence community, and yes, he should be and will be prosecuted.

[Morneblade]

 

He fears for democracy?  For better or worse, the Patriot Act was enacted by democratically elected leaders.  If he subverted the law, he needs to face the consequences, regardless of his good intentions.  He's not the one-man morality police.

 

Without guys like Snowden, we the American public never find out about abuses. Just think if there was no deepthroat in the '72 (to be honest, if Nixon had the tools that Bush/Obama had he is never forced to resign)

 

Leakers and whisleblowers are important in keeping elected officials honest. 

Exactly. The lockstep crowd of Obama apologists never fails to amaze me. The IRS story alone has so many stories that are coming to light that were it an 'R' in office this board would be alight with threads for each issue. Both sides have their share of involvement in how badly our freedoms are being eroded but even Nixon was denied by the IRS when he tried to use it to illegal ends. Obama, not so much. Where's the outrage?

Kinda like the 'Dubya" apologists during his 8 years. But I'll do what I do, and call it what it is. I'm outraged. I'm glad he leaked this and I'm pretty surprised at the lack of outrage. It IS an attack on the Constitution. If you don't stick to your supposedly core values when it's a little tough, then they are not values at all. They are nothing.

[ixcuincle]

This guy seems like he has never had a job he hasn't become immediately disillusioned with.. how he was consistently able to maintain the clearance level he had is beyond me..

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/09/18865637-i-will-be-made-to-suffer-for-my-actions-self-identified-source-for-nsa-leaks-comes-forward?lite

 

"Snowden earned a GED but never graduated from college. In 2003, he

enlisted in the U.S. Army with the hopes of joining the Special Forces,

but broke both legs in a training accident and was discharged. He told

the paper that he joined the armed forces in hopes of helping the Iraqi

people escape from oppression, but was jarred that his commanders

“seemed pumped up about killing Arabs.”"

 

"

After his injury, Snowden got a job as a security guard at a covert

NSA facility at the University of Maryland, The Guardian reported. That

led to a job working on IT security for the CIA.

It was in 2007,

when the CIA stationed Snowden in Geneva, Switzerland that he began to

question the techniques used by the U.S. government to gather

intelligence.

"Much of what I saw in Geneva really disillusioned

me about how my government functions and what its impact is in the

world," he told the newspaper."

 

"Snowden left the CIA in 2009, but got a job working for a private

contractor that stationed him on a military base in Japan to work at an

NSA facility. He said that his exposure and access to the sweeping

information collection efforts by the government, along with his belief

that Obama continued the invasive programs that he campaigned to end,

hardened him to the national security efforts that was working to

advance."

 

This guy is an embarrassment to the intelligence community, and yes, he should be and will be prosecuted.

 

He had a better life than me. I'm interested in that field and I'd love to have his job. And again, if I saw what he saw, I'd keep my mouth shut and do my job. Then I can live in luxury in my NoVA house watching HDTV

 

200k per year...just thrown down the drain. Smh

[Burgold]

There is always a question of whether a whistleblower is a hero, a villain or something in between. I'm glad this came to light, upset that the US govt thought this was the way to go, and believe Snowden should be prosecuted.

Hopefully, something good comes of this look inside the sausage factory.

[The Evil Genius]

Personally, I think the label whistleblower is being deliberately applied by many where it doesn't belong.

 

What illegal activities did he blow the whistle on?

 

Moreover, if he was a whistleblower, he would be protected. His fleeing to Hong Kong (where he might be safe from extradition) shows that he isn't a whistleblower but rather a leaker of national security and top secret documents.  

 

That said - the whole thing stinks to high heaven. The Government has overstepped its power and hopefully this will force it to reel it back a little. Of course, I guess it helps the cause now that some of the GOP is on the side of less intrusion (or at least they are politically).

 

 

I guess the Patriot Act isn't really the shiny gold penny that the conservatives in this country so proudly supported, huh? Especially if the Government is listening in on all those non-family values activities they are engaging in or setting up over the phone. 

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

My thought on Snowden is if Rep Peter King and "Ambassador" John Bolton are on the side of prosecuting him, well I am on the exact opposite side. If those 2 guys told me the sky was blue, I'd say it is red. When it comes to anything to do with national security, I assume they are wrong to begin with.

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/476605/20130610/prism-nsa-edward-snowden-whistleblower-extradition-hongkong.htm

 

 

NSA Prism Whistleblower: Call for Edward Snowden's Extradition

 

One of America's top lawmakers has demanded the extradition of Edward Snowden, the whistleblower at the centre of the US National Security Agency (NSA) internet data tapping scandal.

 

Peter King, chairman of the House Homeland Security Subcommittee, said that no country should grant asylum to Snowden, who is believed to be holed up in a Hong Kong hotel.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

My thought on Snowden is if Rep Peter King and "Ambassador" John Bolton are on the side of prosecuting him, well I am on the exact opposite side. If those 2 guys told me the sky was blue, I'd say it is red. When it comes to anything to do with national security, I assume they are wrong to begin with.

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/476605/20130610/prism-nsa-edward-snowden-whistleblower-extradition-hongkong.htm

 

 

NSA Prism Whistleblower: Call for Edward Snowden's Extradition

 

One of America's top lawmakers has demanded the extradition of Edward Snowden, the whistleblower at the centre of the US National Security Agency (NSA) internet data tapping scandal.

 

Peter King, chairman of the House Homeland Security Subcommittee, said that no country should grant asylum to Snowden, who is believed to be holed up in a Hong Kong hotel.

 

[Larry]

There is always a question of whether a whistleblower is a hero, a villain or something in between. I'm glad this came to light, upset that the US govt thought this was the way to go, and believe Snowden should be prosecuted.

Hopefully, something good comes of this look inside the sausage factory.

One of the things that gets to me, is the people who make references to this "coming to light".

I've known it's been going on for years.

Yeah, it's nice to have evidence that it's still going on. But all the evidence does, is confirm things that I think anybody would have figured out, from what we've already seen.

[CrabR]

If the gvt is doing something illegal or over steeping its bounds or if the gvt is flat out lying then you are a whistle blower and not a traitor. If you revel stuff that will endanger a US Citizen or top secret [security codes,nuclear stuff tech  etc]

 

Was Daniel Ellsberg  a traitor or hero. The gvt was flat out lying about Viet Nam and he did us all a service by exposing it. We need these guys to help keep the gvt inline. What about deep throat was he a hero or traitor?

 

The gvt tells the sheeple we cannot protect you unless we spend a trillion dollars, tap your phones and read your emails without a warrant, and they believe it. Once we lose a freedom it is hard getting it back

 

I will err on more freedoms than less freedoms

[ixcuincle]

Was Bradley Manning traitor or hero? 

 

Based upon my work with government agencies, as well as my education in security, I tend to lean on him being a dirty traitor. But that's just me. The same applies to this snitch. He is no whistleblower. He's just some jilted guy who got fed up with the government and wanted to make a bang. He ran away from America and hid in Hong Kong, then claimed that the man was after his family because he leaked secrets. 

 

As a federal employee or military personnel, you are asked to take a pledge at the beginning of your service. You are expected to protect America, and her secrets, without any reservation at all. If you violate this oath, you should face penalty, as you did agree to protect the country you serve. I know this sounds simple, but don't leak secrets. I've worked with many former co-workers who ended up disagreeing with the government. They didn't leak anything. They left on friendly terms and pursued other opportunities in the private sector. 

 

I've said before, I wouldn't have done what he did if I was in his position. I would shut up, take my 200k per annum salary, and live a posh lifestyle in Northern Virginia with a Mercedes. That was a good job, a job I'd love to have, and he just blew it all away, because he disagreed with the government's policies. Good luck trying to find refuge anywhere. 

[Corcaigh]

Yeah, it's nice to have evidence that it's still going on. But all the evidence does, is confirm things that I think anybody would have figured out, from what we've already seen.

 

The official statements in the last few days are still trying to claim it is targeted and not a general trawling expedition which scans the activity every citizen without reason. FISA was supposed to provide the oversight to ensure that warrants were issued against specific individuals and related to threats, not permit wholesale search of every citizen activity.

 

If there is no filtering or targeting in data collection, the entire nation is being investigated. Even with advanced technology, that's crappy security policy, aside from the constitutional aspects.

 

This is the same behavior that people were upset about related to the AP journalists, except in that case they were trying to trace a major security leak. Here they are profiling the entire nation as terrorist suspects.

[zoony]

There was no filtering or targeting of the data?

[Larry]

The official statements in the last few days are still trying to claim it is targeted and not a general trawling expedition which scans the activity every citizen without reason.

 

I haven't seen any official statements saying it's targeted.

All I keep seeing is "they aren't TARGETING citizens", and "they aren't listening to the contents of the phone calls".

Which I assume are probably true.

Collecting records on all electronic communications, worldwide, isn't TARGETING citizens. It isn't even targeting anybody. It's just collecting everything, about everybody.

 

----------

 

No, I see Obama saying "the program doesn't TARGET citizens", and I think of company's "privacy policies". 

 

Y'all familiar with those?  When it became economical for businesses to conduct massive surveilance on their customers, and use that data for marketing purposes, the question arose as to what rights people and businesses had on this subject. 

 

And, after careful consultation with dozens of lobbyists from the privacy invasion industry, and a few kooks from the ACLU who are always complaining about something, anyway, Congress decided to pass laws saying that businesses are allowed to use any methods they wanted, to gather any information they wanted, and once they got it, could do anything they wanted, with it, as long as there was a document, somewhere, which you could request, if you wanted, that told you about it. 

 

Ever read any of those "privacy policies"? 

 

I've read dozens.  And they're all the same. 

 

Every one of them says, in big, bold, letters, at the top of the page, that "ACME will never, ever, ever, sell your name and address to telemarketers". 

 

And then, 2/3 of the way down the page, they say that "we may use this information to inform you of special offers that we feel you may be interested in". 

 

And on page 2, it says "we may share this information with our associates".  Without any definition of what "associates" means. 

 

And it says "we may send you information from third parties, and this information may not say it's from us". 

 

Well, that's what the government denials have been.  "We aren't targeting you.  Go back to sleep."  (We ARE collecting every single piece of information about you, and spending billions on making it so that anybody who wants it can easily and instantly retrieve every imaginable thing about you, just in case they feel like doing it.  But don;t feel bad.  We're doing it to everybody, so we aren't TARGETING you.") 

 

FISA was supposed to provide the oversight to ensure that warrants were issued against specific individuals and related to threats, not permit wholesale search of every citizen activity.

 

If there is no filtering or targeting in data collection, the entire nation is being investigated. Even with advanced technology, that's crappy security policy, aside from the constitutional aspects.

 

But when what you've got is a warrant, demanding all records for all conversations, worldwide, for three months in advance, it's impossible to come to any other conclusion.

For example, anybody want to honestly attempt to argue that, if they're doing this to Verizon, that they aren't doing exactly the same thing to AT&T? And to every other provider? You honestly believe that they have probable cause against Verizon, only?

And they're demanding the records for a time period that hasn't happened, yet. Somehow I have trouble believing that they have some probable cause to believe that a month from now, terrorists will be using Verizon more than any other cell phone company.

There was no filtering or targeting of the data?

 

Well, the leaked warrant was for all record on all communications, worldwide, for a three month period, in the future. 

 

You think they actually want records on 20 phone numbers, but it was too much trouble to list them on the warrant, so why not just demand everything, and then we'll throw out everything but those 20 numbers? 

[Corcaigh]

What's clear is that data on millions of citizens has been gathered. Some officials are claiming that this data is only stored for future analysis and used after the fact to find terrorist associates, i.e. where there is probable cause. But other politicians on both sides of the aisle have stated that this data has been used to prevent terrorist attacks.

 

According to the Guardian documents, about 3 billion pieces of data were collected in one 30 day period. I think this relates just to millions of Verizon customers.  

 

What is already in the public domain as established fact is that the security agencies are performing massive data mining exercises using modelling and predictive analytics to see who might be a threat. So the intelligence services may be able to determine if you are a threat, even before you know it yourself. 

[Larry]

Proposal: let's make this thread about the LEAKER, and the other thread about the governments data sweeping operations.

[visionary]

I don't see how what he did endangers anyone.

And by the way, I really hate the term 'snitch'...we're not a ****ing gang.

[wantarace17]

I don't see how what he did endangers anyone.

And by the way, I really hate the term 'snitch'...we're not a ****ing gang.

 

 

agreed about the term snitch

[TheGoodBits]

I don't see how what he did endangers anyone.

And by the way, I really hate the term 'snitch'...we're not a ****ing gang.

 

He provided the entire world with insight into our intelligence gathering. You don't think prospective terrorists would alter their communication protocol because of the information they received from this guy? He made the entire country more susceptible to being successfully attacked.